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Momodou
Denmark
11828 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 20:48:25
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Will Reconciliation Efforts Tear Liberia Apart Again?
By Horand Knaup
A traumatized Liberia is still recovering from 15 years of civil war. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission has published its recommendations, but former warlords -- and the country's once-idolized president -- are vociferously opposing them....
....The commission's 380-page report recommends that, after completing their current terms, President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf and 49 others be banned from holding public office for 30 years, and that a hard core of eight warlords be brought before a special tribunal.........
read more at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,641102,00.html
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2009 : 22:47:36
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380 page reports, politicians,murder, torture. bloody war, warlords,Peace in our time, I doubt it,this is a prime example why I dislike politics. What will be the outcome ? talk using words like, I am sorry, I didnt know.Words fail me, politicans will talk and talk, a lot of hot air, no action, no improvement in the lives of the people of the country ,A country of ongoing dispair for generations to come.No solution.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 11:22:30
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No one has anything to say on this topic ? has anybody visited Liberia,recently,or in the past? am I correct in what I have written? or there is no opinion on the reports that Momodou had uncovered and the ideas put forward ?
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 11:32:01
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I think "Truth and Reconciliation" commissions should be a basis for acknowledgement and forgiveness, not for retribution and further conflict...
Well I guess truth must be told and acknowledged first, and then there will be forgiveness. However, it seems that is not going to be possible in Liberia.
It seems that what has happened over Liberia's decade of civil war is too traumatic and divisive to be brought to the surface of public accountability. The Truth and Reconciliation Coommission might afterall be a "recipe for chaos" in Liberia.
Liberia, with its hardened warlords, may be no South Africa; and that "forgetting and forgiving" may appeal to the better nature of Liberians than "Truth and Reconciliation". Perhaps truth does not set everyone free... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 10 Aug 2009 12:13:47 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 12:53:58
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Well sometimes, nations need dictatorship. That is better. During 70s, when I was little litte baby :) Turkey had suffered from proxy war by USA and USSR. USA was supporting Ultra Nationalist/Islamic Jihadist against Marxist/Leninist and Maoist fractions. Basically, university students were involving anarshy and terror. There were anarchy, terror, student protests, assassinations, even within family members. I remember my great uncle son, who is ultra nationalist, and my aunty's husband leftist, once had fight during some family function. September 12th 1980, there was a military coup in Turkey. Military take over and all the violance stopped. Yes, many went to prison or executed. At the same time, after three years, democracy reestablished. We did not have any violance until former Leninist Kurds turned to Kurdish Seperatists.
I have been to Liberia and Sierre Leone. These nations are not ready for democracy. Someone needs to have a stick so no one cut those trees even there is a police presence. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 13:10:59
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Well sometimes, nations need dictatorship. That is better. During 70s, when I was little litte baby :) Turkey had suffered from proxy war by USA and USSR. USA was supporting Ultra Nationalist/Islamic Jihadist against Marxist/Leninist and Maoist fractions. Basically, university students were involving anarshy and terror. There were anarchy, terror, student protests, assassinations, even within family members. I remember my great uncle son, who is ultra nationalist, and my aunty's husband leftist, once had fight during some family function. September 12th 1980, there was a military coup in Turkey. Military take over and all the violance stopped. Yes, many went to prison or executed. At the same time, after three years, democracy reestablished. We did not have any violance until former Leninist Kurds turned to Kurdish Seperatists.
I have been to Liberia and Sierre Leone. These nations are not ready for democracy. Someone needs to have a stick so no one cut those trees even there is a police presence.
I find your posting contains things that perhaps weaken the "human rights" of individuals,however if this is a help in establishing stability within a country then thats so be it,you also mention,
"I have been to Liberia and Sierre Leone. These nations are not ready for democracy. Someone needs to have a stick so no one cut those trees even there is a police presence" In other words total state control for the benefit of the country so it can remain stable,you have lived through various regimes in your own country so have been able to judge perhaps which course should be taken by Liberia.In Liberia's case which way do you think would make a successful country in the future,assuming that there is no undue interference by other more powerful countries for their own benefit. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 15:01:35
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The ultimate object to transition to democracy. However, I don't fancy about democracy as much as diaspora here. I do value the democracy, however, my apprach is little bid different. I like long term, slower process.
I would rather to live in Gambia than Liberia or Sierra Leone or Guinea or Guinea Bissau. Anyway.
I have repeated my approach several times here for Gambia. That can be applied to Liberia as well. I don't see democracy as a priority and not an objective. Democracy is a tool. My priorities are wealth, economic, social, system development. In fact, democracy could be a disadvantage for development.
I think Liberians are not ready for democracy. Because they are not informed about the issues. Or they may know about the issues but they may not equiped to choose the best policy due to lack of economic/political knowledge. I am not sure if masses will consider economy, social policy, taxation etc. Their vote may be based on tribe, region, or religion. Or it is easy to influence liberians with vote buying. They don't have infrastructure for democratic campaign. Not many TV/Radio station or programs. The newpapers do not sell much. Many women particularly are iliterate. Democracy may be good for stable and wealth countries. But slow decision making process and short termism hinder economic/social development. Especially if there are several parties, imagine there is coalition and government can't govern. This would have much bigger negative impact on Liberians than UK.
I also see a lots of corruption. If Party A get elected and if in 4 years there is an election. Party A would try to get as much as corruption possible before they lose the election. Especially in Africa, corruption is extremely high where there is not balances and checks, especially there is not stable/reliable judicial process.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 15:12:46
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In practical terms I agree completly,but there is still a little nagging feeling inside about the "little man",how can he have any input or make his voice known in such a system as you envisage ? Does it matter on the wider scale of things ?
I agree totally that Gambia is the best place to live in west Africa, I have no knowledge of other African countries, except Senegal and Guinea Bissau,I like Guinea Bissau very much,but it does remind me of what a country could end up like if your scheme was put into action without the right people in the lead. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2009 : 17:19:20
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| I found Ghana a very interesting country and it has been said Ghana leads the way for other West African countries for democracy and least govenment corruption |
Edited by - snuggels on 10 Aug 2009 17:19:59 |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
558 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 19:38:17
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Snuggels,
I second your sentiment about Ghana.
Toubab,
I agree with the context of your initial posting. I think truth and reconciliation commisions are a waste of space. It gives criminals the platform to come and dictatate to the poor families who have lost loved one - how sorry they are when in fact they aren't, they are only saying sorry because they have been caught and are only there to save themselves. Most of them even think that it is beneath them to say sorry as evident in South Africa. I think it is a joke. Criminals must be purnished. That is the best way of reaching truth and reconciliation especially for families who have lost love ones. There is too much political correctness and liberal 'do-gooders'. It really gets on my nerves. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2009 : 20:24:15
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The devestating fact is that so many people have been involved in such atrocities,wht do you do ? lock up everyone who has taken part criminal though their actions have been,prison populations would be unmanageable,thats after the lawyers have finished many lears later ,how are investigators going to identify every single person who was involved ? where are the witnesses going to come from ? whilst I agree with you that Truth Commisions are probably a waste of time it is a way of drawing a line under shocking tragic times and hopefully starting afresh,forgiveness is unlikly to come easily to those who have had lost ones killed or to those still alive who have had a leg arm lopped off, these people have to live with their sorrow and disabilities as long as they live.War is very bad if it be in Liberia, Afganistan, Europe,The Middle East or wherever,is War ever justified ? I cannot answer that,its beyond my capabilities,but sometimes action is necessary when ALL ELSE HAS FAILED.
I do however totally agree with these sentiments expressed in your posting:
"There is too much political correctness and liberal 'do-gooders'. It really gets on my nerves."
THe world and its peoples will eventually wake up and agree with us,at the moment we are just uncaring cynics. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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