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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 22 May 2009 : 12:24:18
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http://observer.gm/africa/gambia/article/stakeholders-working-towards-a-law-against-fgm-in-gambia
" [D]r. Touray expressed hope that at the end of the day’s forum, the lawyers will endeavour to take up responsibilities in trying to consider drafting a law against the phenomenon".
This statement above is interesting. I was wondering who makes the laws; lawyers or the legislature. I think this kind of laws to prohibit FGM will have to be made by the legislature not lawyers. Lawyers have no business in making laws ...
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Edited by - kayjatta on 22 May 2009 12:31:59 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 17:41:02
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| Kay, The Dr Touray must have muddle up her statements. The parliament is empowered to put a motion and debate the subject. I don't see that happening any time soon. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 20:31:12
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The sooner FGM is outlawed the better to stop the needless suffering of women and children. This legislation is long overdue!
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 22:15:28
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Sheikh Seedia Ceesay, a noted Islamic scholar, who is the Deputy Imam of the State House Mosque has said that scholars of ‘Hambaly’ termed Female Circumcision as a very good practice and in fact a major one.
Sheikh Seedia Ceesay who is also the assistant principal of the Talinding Islamic Institute under Gambia Islamic Union made these remarks last Friday during his sermons at the State House Mosque. He said that the Holy Prophet (SAW) used it as way of describing as and when purification is compulsory.
According to Sheikh Ceesay, Prophet (SAW) did not use one circumcised part to describe it but rather the two i.e. male and female and asserted that husband should force his wife to be circumcised equally as he used to force her to pray.
http://tinyurl.com/oqaemo |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2009 : 22:35:42
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PRINCE!
Where do I start? I am speechless!
A women is a person in her own right!
A husband shouldnt TELL his wife to pray or have FGM or anything. A marriage should be a discussion between equals.
If a women is equal to a man, what women would decide to have FGM done to her?
Why would a women agree to have her sexual pleasure removed? NONE!
This is done to children before they have that self awareness. Before they have the power to say NO.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 03:49:48
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There is no consensus on FGM by islamic scholars or Muslims in General. circumsition remains to be practise in many parts of Africa/Egypt.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200905080820.html
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 05:56:36
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
PRINCE!
Where do I start? I am speechless!
A women is a person in her own right!
A husband shouldnt TELL his wife to pray or have FGM or anything. A marriage should be a discussion between equals.
If a women is equal to a man, what women would decide to have FGM done to her?
Why would a women agree to have her sexual pleasure removed? NONE!
This is done to children before they have that self awareness. Before they have the power to say NO.
Gambiabev, you are misquoting the scholar. He isn't saying that husbands should TELL their wives to pray and be circumcised. He is saying that men should FORCE their wives into circumcision because “there is no valid Hajj or prayers for uncircumcised males and female”.
Turk, your article's title is a bit misleading. There is no out right condemnation of circumcision in the article. The scholar frowned upon "pharaonic circumcision,"... whatever that means. I generally suspect most people who talk about the pharaonic era of spreading speculations or out right lying. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 09:13:02
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FGM is not practised in Turkey, Bosnia, Albania, Kosova, Turkistan, Iran and other islamic countries in Asia. Many Imams are not supporting it. I am not sure if there is a quranic reference. There are some reference as sunnah but they are disputed by other scholars. It is not true if the hajj would not be valid if female is not circumcised. I have not heard of it. Can you provide reference to it?
Gambiabev
In islam, the basic unit of the society is not individual. It is family. And there is not absolute equality between men and women as woman=men. It is more like woman+man=1. I do not expect you understand this. You have different background, moral values. Men are not supposed to abuse their wife for their role. It is ordered by quran. You are right that muslims men could abuse their position because the fact that they are the head of the family.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 10:24:47
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I do understand it intellectually...but can't grasp it emotionally!
I do think it is an excuse for Muslim men to be arrogant towards their wives. They are head of the house and they know best.
Having been raised in the West during the times of female liberation I find that attitude very hard to stomach!!! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 11:31:50
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Gambiabev
While there is better equality for the western women, does abuse by men stop? It maybe less because women have more economic power. Ceteris paribus :) :) islam and western life style is not much different :) For example, recent rise of Islam in Turkey, as the government is more conservative, there are more and more richer conservative families, I see more conservative muslim women with BMWs, have education, I don't see them being abuse by their partner. This has more to do with socio-economic situation than islam.
Islamic societies and western society have different fabric. West had industrial revoloution and it is capitalist, it is more urban. The wealth situation is much better. There are more educational/professional opportunities for women.
You may not grasp it emotionally, but that is very unfair. People, societies are different. You must learn to accept differences.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 11:39:57
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I do try very hard to accept differences.
You are right of course, many women in Western Societies are abused too.
Education and economic power seem to be key, where women have the option to leave then the husbands tend to treat them better.
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 17:08:21
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A Rite of Passage
As much as cutting someone’s body-part is indefensible, let’s bare in mind that’s just one part of a process/ceremony having other values. Circumcision is a “rite of passage” that makes changes in a person’s social competence, status and a bridge between childhood and adulthood.
I hope or rather wish, there are considerations to preserve some parts of the process like dances, songs, rhythms, food, hairstyle, décor and especially the fellowship, the ceremonial context. There are other cultural values passed on to coming generations on the event, which are part of what constitutes the cultural institution and has functions beyond the ritual. It would be a dishonor if the whole ceremonial and cultural contexts disappear.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2009 : 19:16:21
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Janko I agree completely. It would be lovely for girls to continue to have a naming ceremony and then perhaps a coming of age ceremony around the time of her first period.
In the UK in the Chruch of England this is traditionally the time children would be confirmed into the church. They would be blessed, take their first communion, receive little religious presents.
These ceremonies, religious or cultural bind people together and get a structure to society.
But there is no need to do FGM to achieve this. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 07:36:18
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
I do try very hard to accept differences.
You are right of course, many women in Western Societies are abused too.
Education and economic power seem to be key, where women have the option to leave then the husbands tend to treat them better.
Very sensible post Bev. I cannot agree more. The lack of women's power in much of the Islamic world and the Third world generally has to do with their lack of economic power and consequent hostile legal environment to the rights of women.
In countries where women wield considerable economic power and where a conducive legal atmosphere (such as property rights, no fault divorce, child custody rights, child and spousal support...) exist, women often leave bad and abusive marriages.
In the United States there is extensive support for battered women at both the local, state and federal levels; there is no such support system in much of the Islamic and Third world. Instead marriage could turn out to be a bondage for many women where they could be beaten and thrown out over night without any due process of law and no right to claim any marital property. Brave and independent-minded women who leave their marital home are often stigmatized and many are often talked into returning to their abusive spouses with advice to endure .... I have earlier posted a story of a Pakistani man who beheaded his wife in the U.S. after she filed for divorce (following repeated abusive scenarios ending in 911 calls), and the court granted her the custody of the children and the ownership of the marital home. That kind of legal power (for women) is perhaps unthinkable in Pakistan and much of the Islamic and Third world.
There are countries perhaps including the Gambia, Egypt, Iran and Turkey, where a considerable number of women may appear to be enjoying significant economic power, but unless such putative economic power is matched by a legal system that allows women property rights, liberal divorce rights, child and spousal support, child custody and so on, such women still find themselves under the shackles of powerful men, most often a father or a husband .
I disagree with the Hambally school that women should be "FORCED" into circumcision and prayer. Nobody should be forced to circumcise or pray.Doing so only sets the ground for rebellion, abuse and chattel slavery  . |
Edited by - kayjatta on 25 May 2009 09:19:15 |
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sss
USA
82 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 21:31:33
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| i do not understand why female circumcision should be outlawed afterall it is about equality.boys are circumcised why not girls. |
THE MESSENGER OF GOD(peace and blessing be always upon him)SAID,"WHOEVER WALKS WITH A TYRANT IN SUPPORT OF HIM,WHILE AWARE OF HIS TYRANNY,HAS ABANDONED ISLAM."At-Tabarani
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 21:59:01
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We have had this discussion SO MANY TIMES.
Can you read past postings?
The equal thing would be to chop a mans p**** off!  
Seriously...there is no comparing the two things!!! |
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