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BrufutJo
16 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Oct 2008 : 22:54:50
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A nursery school nearby was in constant turmoil with arguments between the community and the headmaster. There were seventy kids at the school and one teacher who started anytime between nine and ten thirty, took an hour break at eleven, and would not work Thursdays or anytime he had any social work/ football coaching to do. Any children late or misbehaving were caned severely. We are talking about three year old children. I advised the Committee not to admit children over the age of seven, and the school role fell. They discontinued with the services of the teacher. As we now had less children, one of the school rooms was used temporarily as a playroom, where children could play with lego, duplo, water, sand, play do etc. Dutch visitors came. They looked around and commented that the school had ‘gone down’ since last year. There were not seventy children crammed into desks anymore. The children do not chant meaningless abc or 123 anymore. Am I going mad or is it that Westerners think that an education system we would not accept in a million years for our own kids is perfectly acceptable to an African child?.
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 12:08:26
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Not sure if you're going mad or not .... could just be me though 
Anyhoo, my thoughts on this -
First of, if we're talking nursery schools then surely this is only for children up to age 5. If I went to visit somewhere that had children as old as 7 playing with lego and water then I'd think something was lacking too!
Secondly, if I went to any school that didn't have teachers (or even a teacher!) then I'd be wondering what was happening!
Thirdly, if I thought that my grandson would only play at nursery then I'd not be too chuffed. Yes, play is important but I'd expect some pre-school teaching (in addition to what we'd be carrying out at home!) to continue while he was in nursery. Did they just chant ABC and 123 without being able to write/read or were they being given some sort of lessons?
Punctuality and acceptable/unacceptable behaviour is something that should be taken seriously but corporal punishment is a definite no-no. Were those tourists advocating use of the cane?
Not trying to be flippant here but if you are advocating an education system that is "acceptable for Western parents" why on earth are these children being treated as a sort of 'tourist attraction' in the first place? Never in a million years would you see schools in the UK opening their doors during class time so that tourists could stand and gawp at the children!! I personally find this particularly distasteful 
What is your role at this school, Jo, if I may ask? Who makes up the committee you mention in your posting? Is this school being funded by Dutch tourists? We need more information if you are expecting us to put forward solutions/suggestions/whatever .... |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
Edited by - MeMe on 28 Oct 2008 17:37:30 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 14:30:33
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hmm,
who is responsible for beating the children, gambians or foreigners, 
who is repsonsible for the over crowding of the school
this is a nursery school upto what ages.
WHO IS IN OVERALL CHARGE OF THE ADMINISTRATION
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BrufutJo
16 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 23:11:39
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| First of all this is not Bruft Jo who posted . It is Del. We share the same IP address and this Bantaba will not let me log in any other way. Yes. The school had no regular teacher. And yes. The parents were confused and angry. They did not pay the teacher but, like many other teachers, he made his money by other means. It PAYS them to have the school look really poor. Tourists bring pencils and pens and paper and toys that lay unused for years. Corporal punishment: I was assured was nothing to what this teacher had endured under a Catholic regime. But still. I think the parents were unhappy with it. Times are changing. Yes. Common sense would dictate that a nursery would have children up to the age of 7 in Gambia , which is when Lower Basic starts. But many parents cannot afford the fees for Lower Basic, so they either keep their children in nursery, or put them into nursery for the last term before they go to Lower Basic. This was also a problem at GTS Bakoteh. We had really bright nine year olds in this school who had been put in with three year olds because ‘they had never been to school before’. I had no idea that visitors were coming. That was up to the Dutch people that built the school in the first place. We were about to go home because the teacher who volunteers to translate for me had malaria. I have been thinking a lot about this and think the best thing I could do when tourists come is to get them to help with an actual lesson. We had a great day last Friday when I showed the kids a muppets video and we watched the manamana clip. Then we all made manamana puppets. Before anyone complains about this *****ic flippancy we also watch Life in Cold Blood and have been doing the amphibian life cycle. The committee are elders of the village. The school was built by Dutch, but no longer funded by them. I see my role at the school as part of my PhD thesis that everyone can contribute to the education of their children, whether literate or not. I am very angry that you choose to use this very common abuse of young children in Africa as an excuse to attack someone who actually spends most of his time creating resources for these young children. You can be angry with him and not with three year olds being caned and humiliated? |
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BrufutJo
16 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2008 : 23:34:34
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| MeMe. Play is now adovcated in UK schools up to the age of 7. Most European children do not start formal education until the age of 7 and they seem to do very well. I have my reservations about doing this in Gambia because many children will never move forward to any other sort of schooling. When I teach kids about amphibians, or early flight, or rice fields in China, or give them world maps, and do maps of our local area., etc., my translators are also amazed because they have never heard of this, or seen any diagrams or pictures. In answer to your question about nursery schools in Gambia just chanting and nothing else the answer must be yes. They just chant endless and mindlessly the abc and 123. I spoke to a teacher recently in Lower Basic who could not see any difference between children who had or had not been to a nursery school. The tourists, of course, had no idea that the cane was being used. But if you go to any school and see a child looking very anxiously at the teacher before he moves I would be very suspicious. I hated the visitors coming, but at least i had a taste of what it must feel like when visitors descend on hard working Gambian teachers. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 11:41:10
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Thanks for the longer replies, Jo and Del (and for also posting them on GTS).
Firstly, I hope that your comment "You can be angry with him and not with three year olds being caned and humiliated?" wasn't aimed at me, Del!! If by asking for more information and exchanging views is classed as anger then .....
Secondly, unless things have changed dramatically in the Netherlands since I left in 1989 (Anna will be able to throw some light on this!), formal primary-school type education does begin at age 6 but younger children are not left to play all day when they start to attend nursery school. Even teaching songs can be a form of learning and you don't need DVDs for that!!
Thirdly, again ... where did anyone attack Jo "I am very angry that you choose to use this very common abuse of young children in Africa as an excuse to attack someone"???
Lastly, if the school is no longer being funded by Dutch people then again I and Jambo ask "WHO IS IN OVERALL CHARGE OF THE ADMINISTRATION?" Also, if you "see your role at the school as part of your PhD thesis that everyone can contribute to the education of their children, whether literate or not" then why are you not at least teaching these children the alphabet/times tables/other basics, especially if there is no teacher available? That way perhaps the teachers of Lower Basic would then actually notice a difference between children who have been to nursery and those who haven't. My 2 year old grandson already recognises numbers from letters, knows lots of colours and can count to 3 .... and no, he's not even at nursery!
The first posting by Jo made me reply because I wasn't and am still not sure of what he is hoping to achieve with it. Are you looking for funding/teachers/volunteers/Dutch translators/people to donate educational materials/what???? |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
Edited by - MeMe on 29 Oct 2008 11:51:55 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 12:27:13
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Hi MeMe, all kinds of things have changed dramatically in the Netherlands since 1989, but not the curriculum that says that children start 'serious' education at 6 ! Groups 1 and 2 (in fact nursery school) are for 4 and 5 year-olds and there is a mixture of play and pre-learning, much depending on the child's preference. Sometimes it is decided to leave a 6 year old in group 2 because the child concerned doesn't show any interest at all in learning, some children are slower or not at all eager to learn. This doesn't happen often, though - mostly you go to group 3 (groups 3 up until 8 are 'primary school') in September following your 6th birthday. The nursery groups have enough materials to satisfy the more eager-for-knowledgde children. A lot of attention is paid to preventing a child from getting bored, but also to teaching to work together in 'projects' - even for the 4 year olds. You might say that the 'playing' is structured, if you know what i mean
I have no idea if in the Gambia there are such things as 'standardized curricula' for all grades, i mean a kind of list if qualification demands to be met by each grade in each school in the country. Teachers here (and in the rest of Europe as well, i suppose) are often drowning in list of demands from the Ministry of Education and all schools are often visited by inspectors from that Ministry.
Is this information anyone is waiting to hear??
BrufutJo and/or Del: i have been reading your posts a couple of times and even though the subject is of interest to me, i didn't have a clue as to what you wanted to tell us. Was it an outburst of frustration perhaps.
As to projects being started in the Gambia and later abandoned: yes, this is sadly (but understandingly) happening and the Gambians are left behind with a feeling of 'hey, what shall we do now..'. I understand you want to do something for the school, but i do not know what advice or help you need. And most of all i do not understand who you are angry with and what for.
Thanks MeMe, for trying to make head or tails out of this (clever girl - bet you were a very eager-for-knowledge child ages ago, haha). |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 12:44:24
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Thanks for your welcome input, Anna! Yes, I was (and still am!) a proverbial pain in the butt - fiercely independent and needing to gather knowledge wherever possible. Actually went to primary school just two months after my 5th birthday (no nursery schools in those days!)and was always the youngest in the class. Did manage to get the belt several times for chatting when I should've been silent while at primary school but am glad to say that corporal punishment has since been abolished!! Couldn't bear the thought of my little prince being treated so harshly .....
Seems so long ago that my girls were in education in your fine country that I wondered if the cobwebs were playing up and I was getting my facts muddled  .
I was also heartened to see that I'm not the only one still waiting for the bottom line of Jo/Del's posts |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 13:49:47
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SO WHO IS IN CHARGE OF THE SCHOOL, i wil be supporting a nursery school and the empahsis is on abc, learning by sight and reading, very old fashioned the notion of play in gambia is totally diffeent from play in UK. As the school is a feeder school to a lower basic school they teach the children what they need to know to get into the lower basic school
IF THEY DO NOT DO THIS, WHAT IS THE POINT IN SENDING THE CHILD TO THE SCOOL, THAT IS A BIG QUESTION FOR MANY GAMBIANS,
i am shocked at how much you pay for nursery school in gambia and with the basic abc children do not get into SCHOOL,
WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE SCHOOL and why did you post it on BANTABA, if you cane a child is not that corporal punishment legal or not in GAMBIA you are the adult take charge |
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BrufutJo
16 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 21:55:39
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| Well I am very tired and depressed today. To add to my problems this Bantaba has just sent Jo a message saying not to allow anyone else use his account. But they will not allow me to sign on under my own name which is delythdallimor@hotmail.com. In answer to your comments I was not asking for anything. I was just angry that after the committee finally took action and stopped the abuse and after the children were finally allowed to use the toys and pens etc that had been brought from abroad, we have been castigated for allowing it. The DVD's are a Friday treat which is an extra burden when I choose to carry it on the five miles round trip - and I walk. These children WORK outside of school. They have child minding duties. They weed gardens. They carry water from the wells. The parents know this is not right and want their children to have more out of life. I teach the kids phonics using local familiar icons - such as A is the initial sound in Africell or Alicaloo, B is for Bamboo etc. Today I was initially so chuffed in the school because they have absorbed so quickly everything I have been trying to get through to them. We use cardboard dalasi to teach numeracy which Jo spends hours cutting out. They know already so many phonic sounds and can recognise many alpahbet letters after only three weeks. Shapes and colours in Mandinka and English. Already loads of nursery rhymes. I am trying to teach them 'Those magnificent men in their flying machines' Very difficult language for non-english speakers but they are getting there. That is in addition to the usual Polly put the kettle on etc. My income is zero. I cannot support the school apart from technical expertise. Jo says this message will probably lock his account up but send it anyway. If anyone wants pics or very short videos just e mail me and I will forward them. Jambo - I cannot name the school in public because the elders would find it an unforgivable slur on their community but if you e mail me i will forward you their e mail address. |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2008 : 22:57:28
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What an interesting posting Del.
I think the problem with this posting is that it seems people are looking at this though different lens.Exactly the question you pose.
I am assuming that you are an Early years educator ... Made this assumption on the OP which is what am responding to.
This is a common problem/frustration that many people in the field come across.
I have felt these frustrations (time keeping, apathy etc) even in higher education establishments. The problem for me starts at training, many unquailified teachers in a position of stress and demand with little and in some cases no pay. If you are unqualified what exactly are you qualified to teach?
EYE is seen by many as insignificant here in the west as well as there. I am sure I do not have to bore you with detail and frustrations.
There is a fantastic EYE programme in the University but of course is not accessible to all. Maybe you could contact them they are a supportive faculty.
As we are fully aware the ABC repetition serves no purpose in isolation there is no point in teaching children letter names if they cannot associate the letter grapheme correspondence. However I too have experienced the sit the children down to recite the alphabet, its only though modelling behaviour that you are able to challenge/ change these beliefs.
Personally, for the example you have outlined I am never comfortable with the 'hold/authority' some investors have, especially those that have little if any educational knowledge or background.
Maybe a way forward would be to hold workshops and encourage parental involvement in order to demonstrate the importance of play in regards to the childrens educational development. But this is no mean feat.
Wish you luck. |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 08:32:16
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| brufutjo, can you make upanother email address use hotmail/ yahoo they are all free. |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2008 : 22:26:59
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| Jambo, I think they will still have the IP problems regardless. |
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