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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2008 : 23:06:49
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toubab
Of course. As a wealthy british got much richer under iron lady regime, you have to protect your Sterling. Don't worry Cameron is coming to rescue you.
p.s. On a note, even Tony blair, a leftist, apply fiscally conservative economic policies giving up socialist labor politics. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 00:10:59
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Musa
What do you think about democrats pro-choice, pro-gay agenda? And conservatives pro-life and traditional marriage agenda?
Turk i thought you are pro homo? Anyway i kinda like your arguement very much. It is very balanced. It is good to know you are not an ideologue. Never allow politicians to convert you into thier robotic ideological perceptions as if there is a unique pattern or formula to human perfection. Politicians don't and cannot live their lives or make their decisions based on their conservatism or liberalism but want to turn folks into ideological robots to harness their warped perceptions of how the rest of us should live our lives.
If democracy is about choices how come the choices of the people of the so called "number one democracy" in the world are limited to conservatism and liberalism. Who speaks for the Americans not drawn to these ideologies? Yet still when an American politician goes up to the pulpit their favourite words are "exporting democracy." What democracy? Tell you what; if that nation had not got a solid and independent security aparatus in place there would be near civil war every election year because the American people had been so divided into ideological zombies it is scary. Put this scenario into any other country with limited and unindependent security facilities and forces, you will get anarchy.
The choice for Americans these past decades has been to choose between one group inclined to chant "onwards Christian soldiers marching on to war....." or "bomb baby bomb" and the other side who tossed out all moral values and belief in selfworth into the gabage bin. The choice again this time around is between two candidate who are trying to pool wool over the eyes of the American people by shifting from the base of their core beliefs to the centre inorder to get elected. Obama is a far left(not even a leftist) ideologue who leaned left and now centrist just for political expediency while McCain is a right wing nut job who should not be trusted with a pen-knife let alone the trigger to a bomb. Maverick my black arse!!!! It is all a show to fulfill his political ambitions. Now given these two choices as a citizen of the world i would choose Obama any day because the chance of peaceful world, less an American war are stacked in his favour. |
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dylanGER
Germany
35 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 00:39:33
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Maybe some of U know this test, THE POLITICS MORAL TEST !!!!
very interesting, and much more to find out about all the
American Presidents we had...
http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.aspx?menu=Home&action=Test&choice=Long |
How long shall they kill our prophets
While we stand aside and look -
Some say it's just a part of it
We've got to fullfill the book - BOB MARLEY |
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musa pembo
United Kingdom
154 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 01:27:08
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Musa
What do you think about democrats pro-choice, pro-gay agenda? And conservatives pro-life and traditional marriage agenda?
Turk.Thanks for your question.You see my brother Politics have become a "marketable commodity" these days,thanks largely to our American brothers and sisters.So any political Party or Candidate in this case for the Presidency that wants to win the mandate from the people MUST make sure that his "marketing mix"(policies) have a broader appeal to a cross section of society.This is not to say that you will betray your core beliefs whether Liberal or Conservative.This is what both candidates have placed before the Electorate,cris-crossing the country selling it to any-body who cares to listen.America is a mature democracy,and the Americans are very proud of their Freedom even to the point of obsession.This is what I personally admire about this Great Country,people are given or allow to make a choice between A or B without fear or favour.Peoples'right are protected by Law or the Constitution as in the case of minorities likes the Gays and Lesbians,even though it is against my religious belief,I will not hinder,impede or prevent them from exercising their own right.Live and let live should be our motto.For me,if I was In America,Obama would get my vote,I think he is a man of vision,wisdom and understanding and he would restore the standing and Superpower Status of America again.George W.Bush has seriously dented the image and prestige of America in the eyes of the World.
Thanks for contribution. |
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musa pembo
United Kingdom
154 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 01:44:35
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quote:
Originally posted by dylanGER
Maybe some of U know this test, THE POLITICS MORAL TEST !!!!
very interesting, and much more to find out about all the
American Presidents we had...
http://www.moral-politics.com/xpolitics.aspx?menu=Home&action=Test&choice=Long
Thanks dylanGER.I can see you are enjoying yourself here.The Politics Moral Test was quite a good laugh.
Thanks and best wishes. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 03:07:34
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Shaka
My view on homosexuality that it is not natural. It is learn behavior. I am against them to raise children. At the same time, I am also against any discrimination, especially violent discrimination on them because who they are. I see it this way. Just like people with mental disability can’t adopt a child. Or they can't be teacher for example. Same. Gays can’t adopt a child. But we don’t beat up people with mental disability. I don’t care what they do in their bathroom though. But I don’t want their values to be taught in the schools as normal behavior. They are part of society. They should be protected from violence or other harsh discrimination. But their relationships not a normal social unit like father, mother and children. They are two individuals who have weird sexual tendecy. But as long as both willing to have this kind of weird relationship, that is not my business.
I don’t like Obama’s policies on gays and abortion. They are too liberal. I don’t like republicans’ either they are too discriminative. However, as I mentioned I choose the less devil. Based on my interests.
Some here act like; social democracy is the best ideology. Perhaps, we should cancel elections and put social democrats on the government. Why bother with different ideologies.
That was one of my objective for this topic. Why do we vote for Obama? It is because silly reasons like, because he is black? Or we are simply democrats? Or we vote based on their proposals/solutions.
It looks like we are on the same position supporting Obama. Go obama go. For the world peace.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 20:37:30
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well Turk i think ideology cannot be discounted. thats what politics is about. you are right that thatcher, italy etc had/have conservative policies but they did this leaving the ''social net'' perfectly in order. for example under thatcher the UK still had the NHS, welfare system, students grants etc some of these social policies were in fact introduced by earlier labour govts of a different idealogy.
in anycase i think ideology is relevant because it is actually being used against Obama by accusing him to be a ''socialist''.
my point was i dont think the guy who just lost him job in a car plant because there is no ''growth'' anymore is wasting government money by receivig some sort of government help. thats not a waste! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2008 : 21:58:14
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njucks
Ideology is tool not the goal. Do not take it everything black and white. (funny barack is black here mccain is white) For example I support Fenerbahce in football, toronto raptors in basketball regardless. But that is sport business. To me politics is grey. That is the nature of social science unlike positive science that is based on one absolute truth. Politic is social science what is true to you is false to me. You are right, ideology can't not be discounted, by different circumstances require different approach/solutions.
Again, in summary, you are supporting obama for bigger government controlling economic resouces more. As you are leftist and Obama happens to be leftist, you are supporting Obama automatically. Simple process. I have more complex approach to decide on my support.
My take on ideologies and presidential candidate
Many factors impact on my perspective on Presidential Election.
1. My interests
2. My ideology
3. My location
I am early 30s, professional. I do not depend on social spending at the moment. I have a job, I am healthy. My daughter is still 1.5 years old. She does not attend school. My mother provides free child care services for my daughter. So, it is my interests to have as much as money I make go to my pocket not to the government to spend my money on social spending. So I can focus on my retirement funding. For that reason, McCain policies more appealing to me. Smaller government mean less tax. As I don’t need social spending much at the moment. It makes sense for me to support ‘growth focused’ economic policies rather than ‘fair income distribution’ policies. I want my company do good so I can keep my job. If my company pay more taxes, it may impact on my company’s growth they may consider lay off the people. To me the rate of unemployment insurance is less important than keeping my job.
However, in 4 years or 16 years and 25 years thing will change. I will rely on social spending. Or if I got fire, I will need unemployment insurance or welfare. As I got older I will rely on health more. So my economic interest will be different. I may became socialist.
However, I am not in USA. Increasing social spending have no impact on me directly. Those who don’t live in USA, why would they so worry about the socialist policies in USA? That is crazy. If anyone lives in out of USA, they should support McCain for the economic policies as they do not benefit from social spending increase in usa. I mean if you are in UK, why worry about social spending in USA?
However, my company is US based, so McCain smaller government would help my company to be in business. So I have some connection in USA. Or, as USA economy impacts on the other economies, ‘growth based’ economies would be better for any country which make business with usa. So anyone in Europe supporting Obama for economic reason, they are supporting for someone against their own interests. That is actually close to being dumb.
When I travel USA, I present my Canadian passport, they see I have a Turkish background. Because of famous racial profiling and I have some middle eastern connection, I am treated different. That whole texas/red neck mentality who see immigrants as potential terrorist or bad people really bothers me. That is why I would support Obama or Democrats. I found democrats to have more tolerance. I like their liberal values. But at the same time, on abortion and gay right, they may go too far, too liberal.
For foreign politics. I am supporting consensus base, less hawkish policies rather than evangelist neo-con politics. This administration have this ‘muslim terrorist’ illusion or enemy they created, I really don’t like it. I support Obama.
Here is my ideology. I am fiscally conservative. Small government is the way to go. I do believe government have a role to create fair income distribution and invest the areas private sector do not invest like social areas. But it is important to me that my money should be left to me as much as possible.
I am socially liberal. I do not believe any institution including government have influence on me over my religious believes. I am liberal secular. Religion should be left alone. Because it is individual. I have some conservative view on homosexuality and abortion but other than that, I am pretty liberal.
I do believe democracy. Also recognize democracy and its level depends on wealth and education level. It is OK a country like Gambia to be less democratic as it does not have the wealth and education level that would support democratic institutions.
Foreign policies. I support democratization of UN system. That is critical to resolve many issues in the world. For example, Israel – Palestine issue would be resolved if USA did not have veto power.
So my decision supporting obama was little more complex than rooting for a football team.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 02 Nov 2008 22:55:46 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2008 : 07:55:40
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
quote:
Originally posted by turk
That shows your lack of economic knowledge. Because average 50 % of americans agree with me. Anyway. Yes, I do mean leftist economic approaches does not have much growth agenda. The prosperty is illusion as the government spending increase provides temporary growth. It is like borrowing from the future. Clinton's economic wealth was due to Reagan and Senior Bush's growth. And the current economic problem really combination of Clinton's expensive social policies and Bush's political mistake, iraqi war. You are correct. Not much growth during Reagan's years, because it was after Socialist Carter, so economic growth should have been slow and Reagan's economic policies were affected by final knockout punch to Soviet Union. Bush situation was different though. Normally bush had good economic policies, but bad foreign policies. The iraqi war was contributing factor for this current crisis.
Tax is essential for economy. However, I am against my tax money to be wasted by government. You still don't get it. Your vote is for your interests. For example, if you were depend on welfare, unemployment insurance, health benefit, of course you would vote for Obama's policies.
TURK, I agree with you ,what you say is total common sense.
Any evidence of facts and statistics to prove this claim? |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2008 : 09:35:17
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| Turk, from your text above i think you are one of the 'undecideds'. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2008 : 16:48:38
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njucks
If I was an american citizen, I would vote for obama. Despite his economic policies. His social values, his foreign policies and his charisma and character, his life and background are reason I am supporting him.
His disadvantages: Inexperience and economic policies I like which Mc got.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 04 Nov 2008 05:56:58 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2008 : 23:51:01
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Ok. I got your point Turk. I hope we all celebrate an obama victory after tomorrow.quote:
Originally posted by turk
Shaka
My view on homosexuality that it is not natural. It is learn behavior. I am against them to raise children. At the same time, I am also against any discrimination, especially violent discrimination on them because who they are. I see it this way. Just like people with mental disability can’t adopt a child. Or they can't be teacher for example. Same. Gays can’t adopt a child. But we don’t beat up people with mental disability. I don’t care what they do in their bathroom though. But I don’t want their values to be taught in the schools as normal behavior. They are part of society. They should be protected from violence or other harsh discrimination. But their relationships not a normal social unit like father, mother and children. They are two individuals who have weird sexual tendecy. But as long as both willing to have this kind of weird relationship, that is not my business.
I don’t like Obama’s policies on gays and abortion. They are too liberal. I don’t like republicans’ either they are too discriminative. However, as I mentioned I choose the less devil. Based on my interests.
Some here act like; social democracy is the best ideology. Perhaps, we should cancel elections and put social democrats on the government. Why bother with different ideologies.
That was one of my objective for this topic. Why do we vote for Obama? It is because silly reasons like, because he is black? Or we are simply democrats? Or we vote based on their proposals/solutions.
It looks like we are on the same position supporting Obama. Go obama go. For the world peace.
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Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 03:05:21
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So far Turk you are one of the few people who really hit the nail on the head. I think am biased about the whole issue i know what the implications are yet i voted for him. What does it mean for a black man in America if obama became president? Hmmm i guess no more Rev Al sharpton , Jessse Jackson already said someone needs to cut off Obama's balls now that was funny . America has reached a stage that it ain't no longer about race yet I live in the Northwest, but i really do feel sorry for the brothers in the south for I doubt much will change and the first thing to disappear as you rightly stated would be Affirmative action. The south is still Kinda racist in a nonchalant way. But hey it might just change things for the Best..........................................Peace
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Because he is black: It would be symbolic that a black man becames president, that is a milestone in American history. I would not vote for this though if I was black. It would be misleading truth. When a black person in USA complain about racism, one would say, there is even black president, so stop complaining about racism. So, is racism issue really over in USA? That is debatable. Another issue would be, what if he continues the aggression to Muslims. Those gambians proud to be muslim also black would regret their support for obama. What is more important to you, blackness of being muslim? To me voting for him because he is black is not different from believing OJ to be innocent because of his blackness.
Economic: He is favoring leftist policies. I don't like that. I strongly believe that, 'spread the wealth' is wrong. As a tax payer, I am not supporting Obama and his policies. I am not fan of big government. So I would not vote him for his economic policies.
International: That is the only reason I am supporting Obama. I had enough with hawkish evangalist foreign policies. Obama will not change much but he is promising more consensus base foreign policy, that is why I am supporting him.
There are other reasons, for example he is younger, he is handsome, media supports him. What else? Why would you vote for him, Why wouldn't you vote for him? Provide your perspective as yourself and as a marsian.
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I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 09:13:39
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Moe listening to some of the comments on TV this week, someone touched on your point. Actually what they were getting to was the fact that a lot of A-Americans are coming forward to register and vote. Thus there is a long term implication of this as they would appreciate the value of their own votes. This will change how the south is run in the medium term.
i dont think most americans black/white/hispanic are expecting miracles but certainly i think there will be changes. even the stock markets have gone up a bit.
i personally do NOT SEE ANY INVASIONS coming!! |
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Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2008 : 07:03:20
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Changes am pretty sure there will be for the simple fact that he has no other choice but to . He has to out perform his prdecessors which will be very hard yet he is BLACK and as always he has a point to prove since everyone will be watching  .
He is truely the symbol of hope and gradually the words in the constitution are coming to life and as of now any minority will have a chance to the presidency in the land of FREEDOM.............................................................Peace |
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
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