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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 10:22:36
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What is the difference in Gambia. Is one higher than other one. For example, if a christian woman married to muslim man wants to divorce, which court the woman should go? Or custody issue. Which court decide the custody of the children? Can kadi court make order on issues other than marriage and divorce for example property, custody, inheritence?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 29 Jun 2008 10:25:06 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 15:38:53
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Mohameddan marriage is the islamic marriage. The legal authority that sanctions a marriage gets to decide issues of divorce, custody etc. The qadi court decides laws relating to inheritance, custody, and divorce if the the parties involved are married under islamic law.
Mohammedan is a a derogatory term used by the british when refering to islam during the colonial days. Sadly, the term remains in our legal codes almost half a century before it first came to use in Gambia. I have always said that the day I enter politics, it will be for the sole reason of removing such vestiges of colonialism from our records are resign short there after. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 23:15:18
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mansasulu
You are correct about the naming. Obviously Kadi Court determine the verdict based on Caferi (or Maliki) schools in Gambia right? What if husband is Hanefi? Is still local school rules over others?
So my question, if christian woman married to a muslim man under Sharia has to go Kadi court, right?
What if you want to appeal? Can you appeal decision by Kadi Court? If yes, where? To Saudi Arabia or something? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 30 Jun 2008 23:16:10 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 11:46:43
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| no she does not, because the marriage would not be recognised, they could not force her to do anything. The religious laws are very strict on this. it would be the same if a christian man married muslim woman she could not go to religious court for kadi. Unless I am mistaken in Gambia marriage between two separate religions is subject to a special licence and it is expensive. lots of paperwork. |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2008 : 14:31:10
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Jambo, I think you are confusing marriage between a citizen and alien (i call them tourist sham marriages). Furthermore, if a christian woman marries a muslim man under shariah, she is bound by that jurisdiction. It is not a question of forcing or not forcing someone to do something. Marriage is just like a contract, that is why people get marriage licenses. So in a nutshell a marriage done under shariah is bound by a shariah courts in the event of a divorce, custody, issues etc if both parties willingly decided to pick shariah way at the time of marriage even if the woman is a christian.
In the case of a marriage between a christian man and a muslim woman an islamic marriage is a non starter because under shariah that kind of marriage is not allowed. So in a nut shell the Kadi courts will not have any jurisdiction whatsoever.
As far as appeals, rulings of a qadi court is done through a special 3 member court appointed by the chief justice. I believe at least one of the members appointed to this court should have an expertese is shariah law. The supreme court which is the highest court in the land has a final say in all matter that went through a Kadi court.
The maliki school of thought is the method mostly used in deciding cases but I am sure the kadis will be in a position to take into account the opinions of the other schools of thought.
It doesn't get more complicated than this... If you ask me, the whole thing (appeal process) is a mockery of the laws of Allah.
I hope our competent legal minds on bantaba could explain this further. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2008 : 15:49:08
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Mansasulu, you are correct that is why i made the distinction, but if a Gambian christian woman marries a Gambian muslim man then at the beginning they take an understanding of what will happen in the event of divorce.
You mention "In the case of a marriage between a christian man and a muslim woman an islamic marriage is a non starter because under shariah that kind of marriage is not allowed. So in a nut shell the Kadi courts will not have any jurisdiction whatsoever", this type of marriage happens betweens tourist/citizen, as you say it will never get to Kadi courts, try telling that to the Gambians who have married "aliens", they do not have a leg to stand on.
the question is muslim marriage v civil marriage, answer it depends on what you want, a civil marriage is a legal requirement and you fill lots of application forms, get it stamped and go through a ceremony. a muslim marriage is a religious ceremony under muslim teachings.
NOT SO |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2008 : 19:28:58
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There is at least one form to be filled even if it is a muslim marriage (for a license). You can still get a license even if you marry through a religious ceremony. A muslim marriage is like any legal contract you can enter into, it is not just a ceremony.
The bottom line is if you marry under a civil system, you cannot resort to the Kadi courts for divorce proceedings. Most sham marriages (tourist/citizen) use the civil marriage so there will be no recourse for them in the Kadi courts. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2008 : 23:31:01
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Mansasulu, I am curious about what it is you are implying in your statement? Are you seriously insinuating that any Gambian who marries someone from a different nationality than their own is automatically entering into a sham marriage?
The District Tribunal is older that the Kadi Court its powers are unlimited when it comes to Matrimonial, Land, Inheritance, and Adoption. They can judge you under Tradition, Custom, Religion and Law. These are the Chief's Courts which were established in Gambia before the British came. Even Banjul and Kanifing have Traditional courts. So if a Christian woman wanted to divorce her Muslim husband as Turk opening thread implies and she lived in Banjul. She would have the choice of going to Banjul Magistrates Court which comprises of the Principle Magistrate, Senior Magistrate, First Class, Second Class, Third Class magistrates, and the Banjul Tribunal Court in Banjul Council. That's a lot of choice do you think?
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 01:40:48
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I got this from a gambian judge.
If the marriage is registered under the law of islam (Both husband and wife must be muslim or, the man muslim and the woman must be from christian or jewish.) any family issue goes to Kadi court. If the marriage was under the civil court, it goes to all the courts Sistah Omega refers. There are three kadi court, in Banjul, in Kanifing and recently opened in Bundung. If a christian woman got married under the islamic marriage, she must go to Kadi court. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 18:29:14
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A Christian woman doesn't have to go to Kadi Court to get a divorce. It seems that your judge has limited scope on Gambian Law.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 19:38:00
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| I have never seen or heard of a marriage couple belonging to two different religions(in Gambia), one converts to the other’s religion before marriage. In my knowledge a case of this kind would never happen. Things may change now; if so accept my lack of knowledge in the matter. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 05 Jul 2008 19:40:19 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 20:33:07
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Of course you can be different religions...you just go down the civil marriage route!
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 21:03:57
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
What if you want to appeal? Can you appeal decision by Kadi Court? If yes, where? To Saudi Arabia or something?
Turk, i dont think your question on Appeal has been answered. Marriages in a mosque are legally recognised as well whether they are registered or not. i have seen a certificate from a Kadi Court before. my take on this is that the Legal system as a whole makes special recognition for Sharia law limited to Inheritance and Marriage. Thus any decisions by a Sharia court would stop there.
Then the interesting bit about one's Constitutional right to appeal? Maybe the Kadi courts have higher and upper Courts?
Most gambians are Sunni muslims but with immigration foreigner who also marry and divorce as well in The Gambia.
interesting question.
i agree with SO that they are not 'sham marriages'. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2008 : 21:17:32
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This topic is interesting for anyone in UK...because once again it is in the news about allowing Kadi type court in UK.
Personally I am against it. I think if you choose to live in a country you should live by the laws of that country. If you don't like it you should go and live somewhere else!  I bet I get called Racist for that!  
If I lived in a country I would try really hard to integrate and conform to the laws. If I couldnt do it I would go home.
The UK has a legal system that is respected around the world. In my view in shouldn't be under mind by bringing in different systems.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 00:53:14
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njucks. I have a certificate for my marriage. It is islamic marriage and registered. It is valid in gambia. It is valid internationally. I used same certificate in UK, Australia and turkey for my immigration issues. Sharia law is limited to inheritence, marriage, child custody, divorce etc.. Normally, the kadi with two from ulema make decision on the family issue. And you can appeal it. This time, you need to go higher kadi court with phatter kadi and 4 other official religious. And that decision is final. I am not sure if the case would end up to supreme court.
bev.
Look at from the this side. Marriage is a contract between two parties. If a womam is getting married under islamic marriage, that means she has a contract with the husband based on this contract. It is like a trade contract. The sharia states that the husband must take care of her and the custody of the child belongs to mother at least first 7-9 years. Both side agree on this contract.
Than you are in England and you have a problem. And you have a family issue to resolve. A woman can't demand her rights based on the original contract. I think it is excellent idea, if at the beginning you sign a contract based on specific law, this law should be applied if there is any issue. I think the sheria law being optionally applied in England is superb idea. Obviously, as a radical secularist you may not this idea, but the liberal seculars find it very good idea.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2008 : 00:56:33
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Also. Applying the sharia is optional. For example, when bev get married, bev can ask her husband to get marry under British law. But if rahima wants the sharia to be her contract, let her choose the sharia.
After all this applies two individuals no body else. The law can be applied only two individuals who choose the sharia to be the contract. It is not like criminal law that would include everyone.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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