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brikama
USA
35 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 02:25:56
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Santanfara,
I agree with you that we need action on the part of our leaders, not just running to the courts where there is no justice. I am baffled with the fact that UDP/NRP is taking both sides on the local Government elections. UDP/NRP is currently at the High Court challenging the constitutionality of the latest amendment of Local Government Act and at the same time contesting the Local Government Elections. Someone help me out here! Is this not contradictory?
Something must be wrong with our brothers and sisters in the UDP/NRP to think that they can effect changes in the Gambia by going to Court for redress. Remember that some of the UDP militants are still confined to prison cells for more than a year against legitimate Court Orders. Kanyiba Kanyi is still not accounted for even after a legally constituted court of law ordered his unconditional release, not once but twice. Instead of demanding the release of its incarcerated members, the UDP/NRP is preparing for another election without chance of making any impact on the current status quo, but only to legitimize Jammeh’s misguided rule. Kanyiba gave his life for UDP, only to be abandoned by his party once he fall victim to Jammeh’s ruthless torturers. Beware if you support UDP/NRP, you must understand that UPD/NRP will not kill a fly for you when you fall victim to illegal detention and torture by Jammeh’s tugs.
This is what they will tell your family when you get in trouble:
“It (UDP) is a constitutionally constituted political party that believes in a democracy based on constitutional rule underpinned by the fundamental principles of the rule of law and respect for human rights. This is one of the fundamental differences between them and the incumbent APRC, and this is why they have being recognized and approved of consistently, since the birth of the second republic, as the real alternative to APRC misrule. Belief in constitutional rule, human rights and democracy are not just the core principles of the UDP but also their political trademark. It is therefore their responsibility not only to show genuine adherence to these principles but also to demonstrate them in action even when the system is going against them. Unless we want tyranny to triumph, this is the cause we should approve and support. Turning to subversive activities to achieve a political goal is not an option.”
The UDP/NRP fails to realize that genuine adherence to the principles of democracy, constitutional rule, human rights does not end at obeying just laws but also includes disobeying unjust laws. What do you do when Rule of Law fails to address an injustice? Do you continue to obey a broken system or take alternative causes of actions that will restore Rule of Law? I think all sane people will choose the later. The UDP/NRP will call that a subversive activity. I disagree. A subversive action is one which breaks or intends to break a just law, not an unjust law.
It is unjust to detain a person in the Gambia for more than 72 hours without charging them with a crime and take them before a competent court of law. It is also illegal for the executive or anyone else for that matter, to detain any Gambian against a court order. Jammeh is tugs are doing all these things with impunity. So what is our cause of action? Is it to continue contesting elections and running to Jammeh’s lawyers to ask for redress, or do we take matters in own hands and demand that Jammeh obey our laws and release all the illegal detainees?
Brikama
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 15:43:42
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| precisely my point brikama. udp/nrp and even pdois are playing on jammehs's platform.they will continue to be ineffective for as long as jammeh see fit. the disobedience to injustices is part and percel of democracy. we need affirmative action. civil disobedience and strong militancy. african leaders always betray. look at kibaki in kenya ,before he came to power ,he promise every thing.now corruption is even more rampant than in times of moi. yahya is even more corrupt than the times of jawara and his bandit. we are just in a sad and bad circle. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2008 : 21:27:39
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Guys, I am willing to accept your frustrations but I am not willing to accept the notion that the Gambia is in a crisis situation. I think that is a dangerous over statement. Yes, we are facing trying moments in our history but we have not reached a crisis point yet. We need to be rational about things if we are to win this war. Otherwise, we come across to those we are seeking to convince as mere bunch of erratic opposition agitators out there to cause distortion. Let me now begin to respond to some of your points;
I am baffled with the fact that UDP/NRP is taking both sides on the local Government elections. UDP/NRP is currently at the High Court challenging the constitutionality of the latest amendment of Local Government Act and at the same time contesting the Local Government Elections. Someone help me out here! Is this not contradictory? – Brikama
Unless you have not read the suit or you don’t care to verify the facts, you should have realized that the plaintiffs are asking for two things:
1. The interlocutory writ is asking for an injunction against the IEC forbidding it from holding election on the basis of the present law which is the subject of the legal challenge.
2. a declaration that the new local govt. Act is in contravention of Section 197 of the constitution, and therefore void
What are the likely consequences of a positive outcome?
1. If the injunction is granted, election will be put on hold until after the substantive matter is decided.
2. If the declaration sought is granted, election will still take place but on the basis of the previous law which allows Mayors and Chairmen to be elected by universal Adult Suffrage.
This position is therefore clearly devoid of any contradiction whatsoever. Past experience has told the UDP that boycott is not an option because it only goes on to bolster the APRC. APRC had called for no election before so as to have Jammeh coroneted year in and year out but they failed. Boycott would therefore give them something they badly wanted but which they could not get through the front door. The last time Juwara persuaded UDP to boycott election, PDOIS sabotage them and contested because they knew they will always have the opportunity to gain a bit of momentum whenever UDP chooses not to contest. Halifa Sallah used that opportunity to earn a parliamentary career for himself and was never grateful to the UDP. Well, it is not going to happen again. If they want a career or servant status, if you would allow me to use Ayatollah Sallah’s deceitful phrase, they are not going to do that at the expense of the UDP. They must earn it or they shall remain a political under dog for good.
Remember that some of the UDP militants are still confined to prison cells for more than a year against legitimate Court Orders. Kanyiba Kanyi is still not accounted for even after a legally constituted court of law ordered his unconditional release, not once but twice. Instead of demanding the release of its incarcerated members, the UDP/NRP is preparing for another election without chance of making any impact on the current status quo, but only to legitimize Jammeh’s misguided rule. Kanyiba gave his life for UDP, only to be abandoned by his party once he fall victim to Jammeh’s ruthless torturers. Beware if you support UDP/NRP, you must understand that UPD/NRP will not kill a fly for you when you fall victim to illegal detention and torture by Jammeh’s tugs.- Brikama
I consider this as an utter grotesque and a desperate attempt to discredit the UDP. But you know you have failed as the facts are on the ground for everybody to see. People have understood that only a UDP supporter can suffer this faith because the UDP is the only threat to APRC. That is why they are being preyed upon. It also a fact that only a UDP supporter would want to take the risk of being preyed on by the NIA because they know that it is the only party that worths fighting for as it is the people’s party compared to PDOIS, which is an individual party of an etist quartet. They also know how much scarifice and efforts the leadership of the party makes whenever a party militant fall victim of NIA/Police tyranny.
Since 1996, countless number of UDP militants have suffered illegal detention and police brutality. Even Darboe himself have slept in police cells on numerous occasion, his two homes have been subjected to police intrusions, his immediate family members beaten up, sacked from the civil service and some forced to leave the country etc. So, this is a collective scarifice they are all making, and any of their sufferings is an unfortunate travesty including that of Kanyiba. Despite all these however, the conventional wisdom within the party and among its supporters and militants is that there should be no turning back. That is why they still continue to take on the tyranny by contesting elections. What they therefore need is our support. That is what they deserve, not disingeneous cynisms.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 11 Jan 2008 23:12:35 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 08:53:24
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| Nyari, just out of curiosity what is "etist quartet" as appeared in your writing ? |
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Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 09:13:38
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A real African booty scratcher thats what it means partner..................Peacequote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Nyari, just out of curiosity what is "etist quartet" as appeared in your writing ?
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I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 18:24:56
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Nyari, just out of curiosity what is "etist quartet" as appeared in your writing ?
Kayjatta, sorry for that terribly bad spelling. I was meant to write 'atheist quartet'. I can't believe I got it that bad. Perhaps it is because that Brikama was sitting on my nerves at the time. please pardon me. See below my understanding of what the words mean;
Quartet;- A team of four individuals
Atheist:- A person who does not believe or renounced belief in religion in favor of philosophies such as humanism or naturalism. This is what Halifa is, a typical atheist.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 12 Jan 2008 18:54:07 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2008 : 23:38:55
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Any evidence for that claim ? And if so does that have any bearing on their effectiveness as a political leaders ?
Do you know Darboe is also widely criticized for being a huge consumer of alcohol ? How do you square that ? |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 01:16:52
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| Good point you have raised Kay. Some people just live in a very small world. Their understanding of this world and life in general is limited to their own tiny space. Chei fitna!!!! |
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brikama
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 02:31:28
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Kay,
This is the type of cheap propaganda they use against PDOIS and the person of Halifah Sallah. And interestingly, Gambians are buying into it. Why does it always have to be personal? PDOIS talks about concrete action points to redress the many problems facing Gambians, while UDP attacks the persons of their opponents.
Please answer Kay's questions!
Brikama
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 19:46:53
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Kayjatta, please lay your proxy war to rest. It was not the UDP who said what was been said. It was me who said it and in my personal capacity. Besides, you’ve never known me as a UDP official, do you?
What I said is from Halifa’s own admission in an interview with Foroyaa. He was asked what his view is on religion and he replied that after memorising both the Bible and the Quran but does not know the translation of the later, he sees religion from two angles, namely; that there are those who utilize it to motivate the poor to accept their poverty as predestined and there are others who rely on it to be their brothers’ and sisters’ keepers. As a result of these, he said he can safely assert that both religion and humanist philosophies are the depositories of moral values which could guide the just conscience of human beings who wish to leave the world in a better state than they found it. It is evidentially clear from this that Halifa’s view about religion is completely devoid of a belief in a super natural God or indeed life hereafter. Those are the cornerstones of any religion, be it Christianity or Islam, and those who don’t believe in them are what the Englishman called ‘Atheists’. So clearly, what I said is a perfect adjective for Halifa’s description of what religion means to him. If you are in doubt, please make a bit of research about what Atheistism is all about. Atheistism has the same moral values as any other religion but it differs from all religion when it comes to belief in God and life hereafter. Halifa's comments perfectly matches an atheist position.
Rather than the verses of the Holy Quran and Bible, both of which he purportedly mastered well, Halifa admitted that what is in fact deeply embedded in his head is humanist philosophical thoughts. This is another syntom of Atheistism. There is no talk about the holy words of God or that of his messengers as embodied in the Holy books. As if that is not enough evidence, Halifa also said that his life is now so guided by the story of the life of Socrates [ a humanist philosopher] that he is resolved that his life can only be meaningful and exciting if he has something to live and die for. By this he did not mean living for God and dying for God but his socialist mission. This is how he put it;
‘Since I read about the life of Socrates, I also made a decision that I will never hesitate to face judges to defend my mission in life before any court of law.’
Religion has taught us that our mission in life suppose to be to live for God to the fullest and expect a reward hereafter. Tell, this to Halifa and given the dear economic hardship in the Gambia, he would say 'you just want the poor to accept their poverty as predestined'. For him, it is all about living for the socialist mission and die for it since, according to him, religion is a mere depository of moral values rather than something that governs the relationship between man and God. So clearly, I am not making any false accusation against him. Although he did not make it explicit, it is his own admission that he is an Atheist and that he lives his life according to the dictates of humanist philosophies like the ones propounded by Socrates rather that the teachings of God as manifested in the Holy books some of which he purportedly mastered.
As for how this is relevant politically, well he has said that Section 25 of the constitution allows him to have such a belief. That means we cannot persecute him for practicing atheistism in a predominately religious society. Fair enough. In terms of political leadership, there is no need to talk about that as neither him nor PDOIS will ever form a government in the Gambia. They just doesn’t worth the people’s investment.
Kayjatta, I know you were angry when writing but there is no better evidence than this. It is Halifa's own admission, not my assertion that is talking here. I hope when you are writing again, you will direct everything you need to say against my humble self. Also, I hope you will not use this debate as a cover to wage a proxy war as that would be cowardly.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 13 Jan 2008 21:12:18 |
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brikama
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2008 : 22:06:15
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Folks, below is the interview Nyarikangbanna is referring to. Where in this interview has Halifa mentioned that he is an atheist?
I think Halifa made a very compelling observation about the nature of religion. “There are those who utilize it [religion] to motivate the poor to accept their poverty as predestined and there are others who rely on it to be their brothers' and sisters' keepers.” The former is a problem in some religious societies. If we take Gambia for example, we have been told that everything was predestined by God, which implies that Jammeh’s rule is from God as well as Nyarikangbanna’s distortion of Halifa’s interview.
The later is what we should promote, as Halifa said, “to guide the just conscience of human beings who wish to leave the world in a better state than they found it.” Religion has always been a double sided sword. Some use it to promote the welfare of all, while some use it only to further their own self-centered interests.
Please read…………
Feature - Interview With Halifa Sallah Part 18
FOROYAA Newspaper (Serrekunda)
INTERVIEW
7 January 2008
Posted to the web 7 January 2008
Interview With Halifa Sallah, Part 18
Foroyaa: How do you see religion as an institution?
Halifa: In a Secular State the rights of every citizen must be respected. The right to a belief is just one of those rights. Section 25 of the Constitution, which all political representatives take oath or make affirmation to uphold, states, among other things, that,
"Every person shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and belief, which shall include academic freedom; freedom to practice any religion and to manifest such practice."
I am fully committed to such principles. In fact, if PDOIS were to be associated with the operation of any state there would be an interfaith committee which should meet regularly to resolve disputes between faiths and negotiate what they need from the state to get protection.
Foroyaa: Do you have any personal views on religion. Some people claim it is the opium of the masses, what do you say to this?
Halifa: I went through three experiences which shaped my attitude towards religion. The first experience is the respect and protection I received from my parents for having been named after a person they deemed to be holy and revered. I experienced very little corporal punishment. My parents helped me to develop self respect at a very early age. I had to excel in the memorisation of the qur'an to the point of teaching other children without knowing the translation. The son of the person I was named after called Shiekh Tijan Sey developed close interest in me when I was young and I started to be inspired by his oratory skills.
My second experience came during high school when I took bible Knowledge as a subject. It was my best subject. The story of Naaman and the parable of the Good Samaritan were very instructive to me. I remember wining the best prize for memorisation of bible verses at Rabun Gap, a boarding school in the USA and the organiser of the competition was surprised that a person who was not a Christian could recite so many bible verses.
The third experience arose when I came across the philosophical thought that, "the unexamined life is not worth living." These words became deeply embedded in my mind. I was just 18 years. I started to guide my everyday life according to such precepts. For example, I was never tempted to drink alcohol or smoke cigarette because of the questions I examined in my mind regarding the worth of alcohol and cigarettes to the body. Considering the lack of nutritional value of the fumes from cigarette and how intoxicants stifle consciousness, I concluded that they were not worth taking.
I must say that this philosophy helped me to take full control of my actions and emotions.
This philosophy strengthened me to be able to withstand the temptations which go along with innocence and fantasies. It enabled me to have full self control, self direction and self determination. Furthermore, I also had opportunity to open my philosophical horizon when I came across a story of the life of Socrates. My body became cold when I learnt how he was sentenced to death and given the poison to drink for allegedly misleading the youth of his days against the norms of those who controlled power. However, I was more overwhelmed by his defiance of death by refusing to ask for mercy. Instead he decided to indict and convict his own judges in the court of his own conscience. His last words became an epic in my memory. It reads:
" There are many other means in every danger for escaping death if a man can bring himself to do or say any thing or everything; . No gentlemen, the difficult thing is not to escape death, I think but to escape wickedness and that is much more difficult., for that runs faster than death, and now I being slow and old have been caught by the slower one; but my accusers being clever and quick have been caught by the swifter badness; and now I and they depart; I condemned by you to death but they condemned by truth to depravity and injustice. I abide by my penalty and they by theirs"
Hence it became clear to me that there are many good human beings who lived on this earth working day and night to make it a better place to live in. Such people, irrespective of faith, turn their back at wealth and privilege and even give their precious life for their missions.
Since I read about the life of Socrates, I also made a decision that I will never hesitate to face judges to defend my mission in life before any court of law. I became resolved that life can only be meaningful and exciting if one has something to live and die for.
Hence, I see religion from two angles. There are those who utilise it to motivate the poor to accept their poverty as predestined and there are others who rely on it to be their brothers' and sisters' keepers. I have learnt human values from so many diverse sources that I can safely assert that many religions and humanist philosophies are the depositories of moral values which could guide the just conscience of human beings who wish to leave the world in a better state than they found it. The opportunist, however, will always hide behind these institutions to promote their personal interest.
Foroyaa: Can we move to the foreign policy of PDOIS.
TO BE CONTINUED
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Edited by - brikama on 13 Jan 2008 22:10:31 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 00:26:30
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There is a fine line between the ability to discern simple language and talking out of your backside and am sure our brother Nyari suffers from both complexes. Take a one way hike to the caves of Tora Bora pal. I am sure your convictions would be more appreciated in Osama paradise than in little Gambia. The sheer arrogance that your religious convictions is superior to all else is really astonishing. Your obsession with the person of Halifa Sallah is dangerously swerving toward delirium. Halifa's knowledge is not heriditary, it was acquired, therefore to delude yourself that challenging Halifa Sallah is the ultimate test of your intelligence tells your state of mind. Get out of your inferiority complex and go seek some knowlege like him. DEMAL SAKU HAM HAM TE BAI NYU CHI JAMMA WAI. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 07:13:01
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Nyari., do not lie to me. You said your assertion of the "atheist quartet" is based on Halifa's recent interview were he implied that he is an atheist (a humanist philosopher). You are certainly entitled to that interpretation, but what baffles me is how you used one man's (Halifa's) words to judge the three other members of PDOIS/NADD. Remember the "atheist quartet", meaning you were not referring to only Halifa? Are you sure you are not relying on stereotypes (of some subconscious nature based on maybe your high school resentment of Halifa)?
Another interesting thing is that you ignored to comment on Darboe's alleged use of alcohol. Do you remember the slogan of Darboe critics 'Darboe dolobula' during the 1996 election campaign? If you are so concerned about people's religious conduct (alcohol is haram in Islam-Darboe's professed religion) you need to assess Darboe's too. I am personally not concerned where Halifa or Darboe goes when they die, all I am concerned about is what they can do for the Gambia, Africa, and this planet. But since you have started digging into Halifa's private life-if he has any at all (public figures do not have a private life, atleast in the U.S.)we might as well dig into Darboe's too, right?
Now here are three quick questions:
1. Any evidence as to why you think PDOIS/NADD four are an "atheist quartet" ?
2. How do you square this criticism with Darboe's alleged use of alcohol ?
3. Is Jammeh a better president and a better person because of his public embrace (and fusion of religion and state) of religion ?
Thanks for your time my 'learned friend'. Oops that got Babung Fatty in trouble with the judge so I withdraw that...
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Edited by - kayjatta on 14 Jan 2008 07:14:40 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 14:00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Nyari., do not lie to me. You said your assertion of the "atheist quartet" is based on Halifa's recent interview were he implied that he is an atheist (a humanist philosopher). You are certainly entitled to that interpretation, but what baffles me is how you used one man's (Halifa's) words to judge the three other members of PDOIS/NADD. Remember the "atheist quartet", meaning you were not referring to only Halifa? Are you sure you are not relying on stereotypes (of some subconscious nature based on maybe your high school resentment of Halifa)?
Kayjatta,
You've asked for evidence and I have provided that. It is not only compelling but also a nail on the right spot to the effect that Halifa has confirmed [impliedly] to the whole world that he is an Atheist. That tells you that unlike you, I am not frivolous.I know what Atheism is all about because I studied Intercultural studies module as an outside module. This module compares and contrast beliefs and the significance of cultural practices of different people. When I read Halifa's interview, it rang bell straight away. It says Atheism. That is what he admitted to. If you think my use of the phrase 'Atheist Quartet' is stereotypical, so be it but that charge is also compelling as the four are said to share the same beliefs and convictions. Besides, Sedia has so far refused to marry. If he has religious conviction, he would not have remain a bachelor at this stage of his life.
I can see that you are still angry and cowardly hence your indulgence in a proxy war. I thought this time around, you would attack your percieved wrongdoer, myself but no. You still continue to attack an innocent third party. Typical! For that reason, I am leaving you with your anger and cowardliness..
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 14 Jan 2008 14:14:23 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 22:13:25
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Nyari, be rest assured, I am not angry at all (why should I, haven't I passed that stage?).
I think you are the one who is probably waging a proxy war. Even if Halifa is an atheist, if you believe in the Constitution you would not judge someone based on his/her religious or philosophical conviction, would you? Let me say again, I have no problem with Darboe's use of alcohol, but since you are the one going around judging people's religious conduct, how can you turn your eyes away from Darboe's use of alcohol since alcohol is "haram" by Islam (Darboe's professed religion)? Atleast Halifa doesn't drink, smoke, and never been charged with tax evasion, right. The Gambian constitution declares that YOU have no qualification, moral or otherwise to tell people what they should or should not believe in,is that not so ?
You have not given any evidence of Sidia's atheism, but just constructed it from your suspect of halifa's beliefs. Isn't this what is called stereotyping?
Sidia has been married before. Her daughter was my classmate at 6th Form. Not getting married or re-married does not declare any one non-religious, does it?
I am still waiting for your answer on the question of "Darbo dolobula".
Meanwhile, thanks for your time... |
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