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lurker
509 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Sep 2007 : 20:17:11
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you know, in the end, the land issue has been a long-running saga in many colonised countries, not just zimbabwe.
that mugabe chose to use it as a political weapon is no big surprise and totally predictable.
he probably did not need to as he rigs all the elections anyway.
but the question was about hyperinflation and the land issue, loss of agriculture, tobacco, crops, export etc is only part of a much wider macro and micro-economic kamikaze dive.
this issue involves,oppression, torture, tryranny, brutality, deliberate economic suicide, violence, tribal hatred, racism, corruption, and every rank, disgusting, man-made political invention.
you have to hand it to the old sod, he knows how to do his business.
thus, land aside for now, we are back with the same issue, ..... what can africa do to protect africans from other africans?
it seems clear that as there is no oil in zim or diamonds etc, no other western country is going to do a regime change, so who is going to help the poor, defenceless people who are being trodden into the dust.?
no-one , apparently. |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 13:09:40
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quote:
Originally posted by lurker
you know, in the end, the land issue has been a long-running saga in many colonised countries, not just zimbabwe.
that mugabe chose to use it as a political weapon is no big surprise and totally predictable.
he probably did not need to as he rigs all the elections anyway.
but the question was about hyperinflation and the land issue, loss of agriculture, tobacco, crops, export etc is only part of a much wider macro and micro-economic kamikaze dive.
this issue involves,oppression, torture, tryranny, brutality, deliberate economic suicide, violence, tribal hatred, racism, corruption, and every rank, disgusting, man-made political invention.
you have to hand it to the old sod, he knows how to do his business.
thus, land aside for now, we are back with the same issue, ..... what can africa do to protect africans from other africans?
it seems clear that as there is no oil in zim or diamonds etc, no other western country is going to do a regime change, so who is going to help the poor, defenceless people who are being trodden into the dust.?
no-one , apparently.
lurker,
I think it depends on how we treat eachother and what we do for our people. In the case of Mugabi, he was forced to the situation. He saw pupets conaving with the British to distroy Zim. I think he got the proble because he said no to his former colonial men. There are many stooges among Africans. They can sell eachother just like nothing, as we have seen the same during the slave trade. You must look at things not only the European way because the Europeans provocate situations. Here because Zim has a lot of farming grounds.
I have not heard anything of the uneducated Africans who toiled with the white farmers with been given knowledge of the mavchines they used to work with. The British people knew the situation of Zim that is why the created this scene for Mugabi. You are being brain washed by the yankees. |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 15:11:36
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alhassan, i have not been brainwashed by anyone. i am an intelligent human being who lived there and could look at it from both sides as i was not biased and had no reason to be. there are multiple problems, stemming from multiple sources, and to bang on about mugabe being forced to commit these atrocities as a result of some colonial masterplan is to more or less quote mugabe himself.
are you now justifying all his tyranny aainst his fellow brothers under the banner of the great colonial plot to destroy zimbabwe ? this is exactly his excuse for all the torture and violence he has commissioned and orchestrated. face it, whatever the history, there is a megalomaniac , lunatic psycho in charge of 12 million souls who scared , literally, to death of him.
clonialism etc makes no excuse for his atrocities.
policies, free and fair election, a mandate from a free-voting public and then he can do things legally and with the support of his nation.
he is just the latest in the line of mad african dictators who released their brothers from colonial bondage and then proceeded to treat them even worse so long as they could enrich themselves at any cost....amin, banda, moi, mobuto, mengistu, mugabe...where do i stop.
african tyrants butchering africans.
no-one excuses the disgrace of slavery, colonialism, least of all me. i absolutely abhor the sheer cheek of the christians running around africa telling them to give up thousands of years of their own culture, heritage and religions for some uppity carpenter who made a few speeches .
but, africa has to move forward, stop continually blaming everyone and everything and look to solving problems instead of moaning about them. intelligent, educated africans, entrepreneurs, politicians, bankers, teachers, etc etc need to step forward and pave the way for the new africa.
as long as africans allow the likes of mugabe to stay in power, they have no future and the world is running out of sympathy, my friend.
africans need to shout and scream and be heard.
i think some of your points merit good discussion, but that last effort can only come from someone who is repeating what he has read.
you can only know the truth if you have been there and lived it. the press can come from any angle they choose to.if they want to prodgress economically, they have to get rid of dictators who wteal their wealth. they have to stop rubbish , foreign-dicated export policies. they have to show transparency, accountability, honesty and trustworthyness to give the world the right message and allow investment etc etc.
mugabe is the antithesis of all of this. zim is a lame duch while he is there.
africans unite - make change- free yourselves - help yourselves - don't wait for the world to do it because they won't. it suits them to deal with corrupt ministers and politicians to achieve their own ends.
mugabe sums up the woes of african development over the last 40 years. he is exactly why countries go backwards, not forwards.
how cann you defend him by saying his actions are justified by colonial pressure nowadays. rubbish.that is his appalling lie to justify his destruction.
lots of things are bad in this world, lots of things in zimbabwe were a result of apartheid, slavery, racism. the worst thing in zimbabwe is now the hitler who runs it.
acknowledge that and you are halfway to solving the problems.
i am not cticising your views, alhassan, just trying to write about the bigger scenario here. it is complicated and upsetting for all.
just ask those skilled black machinists you talked about who lost everything when the land was "redistributed".
where was the reward for their years of labour? they were threatened, beaten, corrupted, . they ran away to other countries to try and find work. there is no work in zimbabwe for the little people.
those farms are no longer farms, just rotting piles of rubble. if they were honestly redistributed , with the intention of farming, the labourers would have been retained as they had a lot of the skills necessary.the fact is that mugabe conned people into voting for him on the basis that they would get land and the only people who did were his mates and their mates. end of story.
somebody do something..... |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2007 : 15:57:46
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lurker some good points, as you say until africans do something, nothing moves forward.
there are many african nations who are supportive of mugabe, you can count the number of nations who are against him on one hand. so we should stop pointing to europe and look on the continent for the answer. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
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che
South Africa
40 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 11:16:01
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| Lurker,i fully agree with the assessment you lay on the table.At this stage,the AU,SADC & other regional gatherings are about leaders vs the people.How far are the leaders willing to stand together in the midst of ever pilling evidence that our countries are not being properly gorvened.Yes,at the end of the day its about hunger,inflation,halting mass migration by Zimbabweans,free elections,human rights.Recognising the entity and value of opposition as part of collective gorvenance.Look at Libya,elections are not even held.How do we expect Gaddafi to say Mugabe is wrong?At the same we recognise the influence of the west as far as interferance in African issues.DRC,for example,seems like will never have peace,as long as she still has those resources.At the end of the day,we have to balance the two issues,of patriotism and accountability,without the expense of culturing dictatorship in Africa.Let our leaders account amongst themselves,to avoid the ever existing scrutining from the west. |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2007 : 11:46:05
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che, does it appal you like it does me when i see the 4x4 processions blasting through senegambia, protecting the AU delegates. or to see yayah with his motorcade with anti-aircraft machine guns - what a laugh, and what a waste of money. the weakest always have the strongest armour.
mugabes motorcade ia about a 1/4 mile long and they will shoot you if you do not stop or get out of the way or both. it has happened several times.
these AU delegations seem to be backslapping, mutual love-fests.
all paid for by whom??????
and what is ever achieved?
someone plese tell me what SADC has ever actually accomplished to further the African cause. i actually do not know and need to be informed.
meanwhile, if even 10% of the money wasted on their banquets and hospitality and wine bill was spent on sewer maintenance or drainage, i would probably not have to go back to gambia every year and find someone else i know dead from malaria.
same old story. sit at tables, talk, smile, lie, cheat, pretend, and then go home, count the money and do sod all for the people you pretend to represent.
look at the dalasi.
bayba giving 35 today! this is deceided by the gmabian banks apparently. this is stopping thousands of people sending money home from abroad, including me!
zimbabwe have now announced that all white businesses will have to give up 51% of their control.
and so it goes on and on.
as said on this thread by others too, these african organisations have actually got to do something real before other countries, even maybe gambia, go the same way as zimbabwe.
jammeh is, after all, a dictator, i would suggest. |
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jammin
Jamaica
149 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 19:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
lurker some good points, as you say until africans do something, nothing moves forward.
there are many african nations who are supportive of mugabe, you can count the number of nations who are against him on one hand. so we should stop pointing to europe and look on the continent for the answer.
well said. Africans in general see Mugabe efforts as RIGHTING a wrong.
Zimbabwe current situation is nothing more than Europe fighting back using economic means.
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Like a colossus He doth bestride the Narrow World |
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lurker
509 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2007 : 22:14:53
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what????????
you think this whole disaster is made by the economic policies of the west?
i must have misunderstood you, cos no-one could be that confused |
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jammin
Jamaica
149 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2007 : 04:53:00
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I have been away awhile thus my late response.
Indeed Europe and its allies are at the very heart of Zimbabwe's economic woes. I am not saying that Mugabe have not contributed to the current situation, but the surreptitious actions and outright brazen attacks designed to destroy the present government, eclipse any blunder on the part of Mugabe.
It is the economic sanction that is causing people to be hungry and destitute to the levels that they are. It is the economic and foreign policies of those people that Mugabe dare stand against that is driving Zimbabwe to near economic collapse. Those are the policies that are causing babies to go hungry, the sick to go without medicines, children without the basics for school.
Economic empowerment of the majority is a bad thing because then the minority influence would diminish and so would the balance of power.
You say that you have lived in Zimbabwe and am sure have enjoyed the bounty that that country have to offer. Were I in your place I would be mad also and would also curse the day Mugabe was born.
The human rights abuses that you have so rightly pointed out is Mugabe attempt to keep the dogs at bay. A justifiable response is to say "you cant have an omelet without breaking some eggs".
If Zimbabwe is to move forward as an INDEPENDENT country, there has got to be a strong leader with a vision of where his/her country should be going, and Mugabe believe that the wealth of his country should belong to his countrymen.
Where i think Mugabe went wrong is his miscalculation of the response of those who would want to maintain the status quo.
Finally, the media has demonized Mugabe making him out to to a tyrannical monster. No leader of any country would want to make his countrymen experience what Zimbabweans are currently experiencing. So to say that the man is deliberately causing Zimbabwe woes is a LIE designed to foster divisiveness.
The Majority of African Leaders have given Mugabe their tacit blessings to fight a good fight. Already the seeds have been sown, and other African countries are watching. |
Like a colossus He doth bestride the Narrow World |
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