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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 06:09:22
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The recent election victory for JDP shows
- PM and Presidential Candidate (their wives wear hijab)
- Party has the islamic roots
- More democrat than any other Turkish party in the history
- More leftist than major socialist party in Turkey
- Economic Success
- Free Market Economy as model
- Working hard to join EU
- Good relations with West and Israel and Iran
Half of turks think so. So can they be model for Muslim countries?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 10:55:05
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| Hmmm, reserving judgement on this one .... how do they sit with the Kemalist ideology? |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 11:00:27
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tell us more turk. i was not following the election at all. i heard that the rural populace support some kind of islamic system ,but the urban masses like there secular ways . what a acontrast . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 11:53:42
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Meme
That is the point. The kemalist ideology was bankrupted in turkey this election. The Kemal Ataturk Party received 20 % vote even they were being supported by another leftist party, democratic Leftist party.
JDP was representative of Democrat party that is the party which got the government first time against Kemalist party when Turkey has multi party election for the first time in 1950s. Than kemalist army coup in 1960, 70 and 80s.
Santa
None of the stuff your heard true, now. Things are changed. Now JDP has big new business class/middle income class. In the cities they are strong. They got 50 % of vote. Turkish society used to be divided based on rural/urban. Many of the cities under JDP including Istanbul and Ankara. Turks nowthey are divided by Fiscally Liberal/Socially Conservative JDP, Nationalist, Radical Secularist, Islamist.
JDP kind of mixed conservatism (islamic social code withouth politics) with the liberal economy and liberal politics. That is why they got 50 % that includes ateist, minority, kurdish, armenian, jews etc.
Imagine these people with hijab worked hard for EU, open turkey to foreign investment improve democracy in turkey for everyone including kurdish.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 23 Jul 2007 14:15:50 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 12:01:25
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JDP teach us that
our great religion can't be removed from society, but can be removed from politics. And, when it comes to economy liberal economy is the way to go.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 14:30:11
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Meme
That is the point. The kemalist ideology was bankrupted in turkey this election. The Kemal Ataturk Party received 20 % vote even they were being supported by another leftist party, democratic Leftist party.
JDP was representative of Democrat party that is the party which got the government first time against Kemalist party when Turkey has multi party election for the first time in 1950s. Than kemalist army coup in 1960, 70 and 80s.
Santa
None of the stuff your heard true, now. Things are changed. Now JDP has big new business class/middle income class. In the cities they are strong. They got 50 % of vote. Turkish society used to be divided based on rural/urban. Many of the cities under JDP including Istanbul and Ankara. Turks nowthey are divided by Fiscally Liberal/Socially Conservative JDP, Nationalist, Radical Secularist, Islamist.
JDP kind of mixed conservatism (islamic social code withouth politics) with the liberal economy and liberal politics. That is why they got 50 % that includes ateist, minority, kurdish, armenian, jews etc.
Imagine these people with hijab worked hard for EU, open turkey to foreign investment improve democracy in turkey for everyone including kurdish.
So how will this work if the army is against this party? And what of other secular supporters???? |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 15:02:36
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
JDP teach us that
our great religion can't be removed from society, but can be removed from politics. And, when it comes to economy liberal economy is the way to go.
Turk,
What does the Qu-ran teach us about mixing religion and politics?
Can they go side by side or together? |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 19:16:06
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Turk, my answer to your qestion based on the premis of removing islam from politic is a resounding NO, and I will tell you why. No matter what Turkey does today, its bid to join the EU will continue to be blocked with excuse after excuse. Even the Pope Benedict himself spoke against Turkey becoming a member of the EU. The problem is not with Turkey, rather their problem is Islam.
Most importantly, Allah says in the quran, in Chapter Baqara, verse number 120, "Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion...were thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah."
However, JDP's recent victory will turn out to be very good for Islam and Turkey if they embark on reforms that are along the lines of the shariah and sunnah and not empty promises of democracy and the west. I would rather have power in the hands of a party with strong islamic principles than a secular party. Meanwhile, I think there is a danger of them losing everything if they chose to separate religon from politics as the Quran does not separate religion and politics. The day we separated the two was the day we lost our religion and along with it our place in the world. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 23:40:54
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meme
Army has been against this party since 2002. And they have been doing good so far. It is true how army have impact on turkish politics. But 50 % vote is too much support, I am not sure army would have as much as impact on them anymore. Besides, JLP is not supported by islamic ideology only, there are liberals, people with moderate, leftist view also supporting the party. I would call it Islamic Democrats which is called Christian Democrats in Western world. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 23:46:48
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Alhassan
No, jdp is not going to bring sheria. Quran also mixing politics and religion. So you would be disappointed what jdp brings if you have any expectation of jdp is being an islamic party. JDP model is based on following principle.
'Let muslims enjoy their great religion in their society. But also liberal democracy and liberal economy are tools for us to achieve wealth for the society.
Please give a model (that exist) for muslim countries where the Qu-ran teach us about mixing religion and politics. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 24 Jul 2007 00:52:01 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2007 : 23:57:55
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Mansasulu
I understand your point. The ancestor of jdp was exactly was focusing on political islam, but it was just not working. The audience was small and never accomplished anything. JDP expanded their political base.
In society there are several demands like foreing policy, jobs etc. If you wish sheria and complete dominanace of islam in your society, jdp will not provide you that. JDP is realist and pramastist. They have the audience of conservative muslims also moderate muslims. To accomplish something you need support. So jdp expanded their audience.
You say: Most importantly, Allah says in the quran, in Chapter Baqara, verse number 120, "Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with thee unless thou follow their form of religion...were thou to follow their desires after the knowledge which hath reached thee, then wouldst thou find neither Protector nor helper against Allah."
True dat. That is what jdp is significant. For the first time, they successfully blend islam as a social code with liberal economy in a democratic institution. There are previous examples but for the first time implementation is not top-down approach. The model id bottom-to-top approach. There are islamic business class demand economic reforms to be competitive in the world market. There is a muslims businesman association alternative to secular businessman, they demand tax reform, small government, decentralization of government. For the first time muslims speaks about economy and adminstration, technology other than political agenda like hamas or islamic jihad. Muslim women demand their rights for hijab. They organize demonstration, talk show. FOr the first time there are women who are muslim feminist :) demanding for muslim women rights not to be looked-down because of hijab. So it is really a revolution. Muslims want government to work and the demand coming from the people.
For EU, i am not worry about it much. Turkish economy is growing, they have other alternatives but I like EU because it is a benchmark, or standard for Turks to achieve such for wealth. I mean you need to have this much gdp per capita, you need to have this standard for health care or education etc. Most turks now do not want to be part of EU anyway. We have other alternatives as well.
It is true that if anyone wants sheria or islamic ideology, jdp is not good for them.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 24 Jul 2007 00:49:49 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2007 : 08:52:37
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Meme
What is wrong with Kemalist ideology. If you see ideologies as an ultimate objective, you are destined to fail. Ideologies are tools not goal. Turks needed Kemalism. Maybe at this time Gambia may need one too.
Ataturk was a "genius", he was one of the best military man of last century. He was a good politician. His ideology won the independence war, establish today's turkey. Turkey does not have any oil or any natural resources. The economic/political success of turkey due to one thing
Experience of politics
Kemalism was good. But as baby grows, now no longer want breast-feed.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2007 : 22:56:27
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| Abdullah Gul is the president of Turkey. Despite the "unelected forces, deep government". It is the revolution in the islamic world. He prays 5 times a day, never miss Jumaa or fasting, his wife with islamic code, a "muslim president". Would he prove us that the combination of "living as muslim, muslim society while governing with the democratic principles model" is possible. Stay tuned. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 02:57:41
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Highly informative. Well done Turk for the lectures and sharing the Turkish politics and experiences with us.
The interactions were really fruitful. |
Edited by - kobo on 29 Aug 2007 03:10:43 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2007 : 14:47:05
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| love your sarcasm |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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