 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 18:48:32
|
Beggers were sentenced for six months to keep the peace as a result causing nusisance to teh public. This link did not expelain what the nuisance was.
http://www.thepoint.gm/headlines1445.htm
Welcome to capitalist Gambia. Beggars are now nuisances in a society that prides itself in giving, caring for the poor and taking care of one another. I think we are trying t be more catholic than the Pope.
Shakespeare was right. " When beggars die, there are no comets seen, the heavens themselves blazeforth the death of Princes".
No one chooses to be beggars. In a society where there are no formal help for the poor and weak, this group only mamanged to cling on to life through handouts from good samaritans. The state has no welfare scheme to house them nor pay their medical bills. In fact majority of these beggars are blind people with no skills or are physically challenged with all the stigmas that go it.
Its time we own up our responsibility to these memebers of our society and help them become independent through skills and trades. The problem will no go away. Many need basic things like wheel chairs. Some end up scraping their knees crawling on the roads. If we dont we will never see success as a nation. They have a right to the national cake as Gambians. Unfortunately we dont count them in matters of decision making, wealth creation or distribution.
All Government buildings are not wheel chair accessible and that is terrible. A colleague of mine always crawls on the stairs to the third floor to get to his desk and by the time he reaches there, his clothes are dirty. We help him by carrying his wheel chair up the stairs.
ITS UNFAIR. ALL PUBLIC PLACES SHOULD BE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL GAMBIANS AND LEGISLATION IS NEEDED.
Who knows if they are not being discriminated in employment.
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 19:22:51
|
i dont think begging is illegal in The Gambia so i was wondering how the magistrate sentenced them under what laws. but the charge is not for begging but for disturbance. merely being beggars was not a crime in this case. in fairness they pleaded guilty.
i know in some countries like the UK begging is illegal as a crime but its not enforced. in some places its banned to beg. sometimes you see people in the underground playing music etc.
its a FACT that we discriminate agianst disabled people in the gambia. have you see an office with disabled or handicapped staff. i only know of one!!
i can understand in a poor society, an uneducated man loosing both limbs
but i also think some beggars SHOULD be warned that their behaviour is not acceptable. on friday prayers you she women beg because they have TWINS or TRIPLETS. Albinos also beg for no other reason but their skin colour. This should not be tolerated.
|
Edited by - njucks on 01 Dec 2006 19:26:24 |
 |
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 19:38:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by njucks
i dont think begging is illegal in The Gambia so i was wondering how the magistrate sentenced them under what laws. but the charge is not for begging but for disturbance. merely being beggars was not a crime in this case. in fairness they pleaded guilty.
i know in some countries like the UK begging is illegal as a crime but its not enforced. in some places its banned to beg. sometimes you see people in the underground playing music etc.
its a FACT that we discriminate agianst disabled people in the gambia. have you see an office with disabled or handicapped staff. i only know of one!!
i can understand in a poor society, an uneducated man loosing both limbs
but i also think some beggars SHOULD be warned that their behaviour is not acceptable. on friday prayers you she women beg because they have TWINS or TRIPLETS. Albinos also beg for no other reason but their skin colour. This should not be tolerated.
Point of corrections:
Albinos are usually very sickly and skin irritations is very common. They need help which is not forthcoming.
If bebbing is illegal in UK, atleast they have welfare schemes which we dont.
Do you know why they pleaded guilty. I will not be suprised that they are not represented by lawyers and cannot afford costs. Why not plead guilty and walk away than challenge the police and go to jail. Its a rare legal precedence that a group of accused all plead guilty. Some element of coersion or fear must have been used especially if they dont have legal representation.
Sociey is becoming impatient with the poor beggars and its esy to call it disturbance.
No one wants to be a beggar. If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. We have no welfare programs to help these people stand on their feet. |
|
|
|
jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 17:12:30
|
i agree that it was not the begging which is the crime but the obstruction, in uk if you beg it is one thing, but to cause a distrubance or block the pavement that is a disturbance.
i was surprised when i was in banju by st mary church opposite the amount of beggers who were there, you have to walk in the road to get past. |
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 18:28:43
|
i agree. the thing is its hard to talk about it without being called impassionate.
women begging because they have TWINS/TRIPLETS is what I dont get. i understand the burden but this is not the solution. tolerating it only encourages it. |
|
|
|
gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2006 : 20:28:41
|
I have only seen disabled Gambians begging outside supermarkets and so on. I was told by a Muslim friend that it is the Muslim way to give a little (very little) even if you are poor yourself.
In the UK I never give to beggars. We have a social security system and for some people begging is a life style choice! In York there are lots of beggars. They come from other places because of the tourists. Some 'spots' are rented out from gang leaders and people do a 'shift' in the same way they work shifts. They can 'earn' more than someone with a job. MOST are either drug addicts or alcoholics. MOST are not homeless, but live in rented flats paid for by the tax payer.
If some one is genuinely homeless or in need I am compassionate. But it is difficult to tell the genuine cases.
In Gambia I feel the disabled people that beg do so out of genuine need. This is a different thing altogether and I would urge people not to walk by, but to give a small amount. |
|
|
|
sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 00:50:49
|
| Great surprise Jambo, you had to walk in the road because of beggars in Africa! There are 800million plus undernourished people in the world. Makes me wonder, were you hungry when you had to take those extra steps with shoes on? Come on, as I understand it you were there paying school fees. What's gotta hold of you? You will never make through the Senegal beggar's to Mali..... |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
|
|
|
ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 02:11:34
|
| I think we need a good social security mechanism that will take care of the disabled and elderly. If there is a better social security system people are less likely to have many children cause to them it is their social security when they get old. When we have less children income is more likely to increase. A pay as you go system will take care of alot of problems that we have in our society today.Thanks |
|
|
|
ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 02:25:35
|
This was written few years ago for some class i took and would like to share with you.
Beggars Strike: Dehumanizing and the importance of beggars in their own society.
Few years ago I had the opportunity to visit a city in Senegal called Dakar. Immediately after getting out of the airport. I was approached by beggars and it reminded me of a story I read when I was very young called “beggars strike” written by Aminata Sow Faal. She tells the story of the banishment of beggars from Dakar and their cunning protest, a strike, which threatens to prevent the implementation of the law on giving alms. In avalanche of mistaken identities, hilarious chaos and befuddled orders, we face basic questions. What is charity, anyway? And who gives what to whom?
Government officials are pitted against beggars, all in the name of saving tourism. At least that’s what the officials thinks is at stake. The government thinks that having beggars in the streets soliciting help from the tourists will discourage visitors from coming to their country. But it seems there’s something deeper, more spiritual going on here. Mour Ndiage, the minister for health did not hesitate to take draconian measures to get rid of beggars from the streets in order to curry favor with the president. When beggars are chased out of town, they regroup and reorganize. When the capital’s inhabitants find it increasingly difficult to abide by the prophet’s instructions to give alms to the poor, the end of Mour Ndiaye’s political career is in sight. The problems he faces are manifold. The president later decides that he wants the beggars in town on Election Day because he needs their votes, while the tourists also complain that without beggars, they are deprived of "local color." Meanwhile, the beggars, who have decency and moral rectitude, are essential to the religious creed of the society in "Strike." They pass on the people's prayers to God.
The story presents the idea that beggars are essential for the smooth running of society. A local politician, who desperately wants to be appointed vice president, wins plaudits from his superiors for sweeping the streets clean of beggars and undesirables. The problem is that his marabout, a spiritual advisor, instructs him to give alms to beggars - who must return to their strategic positions around the city center - or his luck will change. The twist in the tale is that the beggars outsmart the politician, organizing a begging strike that turns the tables on their main tormentor, because they refuse to accept his offerings, now that they settled in their new homes. The determined and articulate beggars against the authorities who brutally remove them from the city because they are considered “an eyesore which will discourage tourists”.
Senegal is one of the many countries in West Africa that imports a large amount of commodities and therefore foreign exchange is vital in the smooth running of their economy. The less foreign exchange in the country of Senegal the higher the prices of commodities to consumers. Agriculture and tourism are the major foreign currency earners for them and not forgetting the remittances sent by their citizens in the west which increased significantly over the years. Instead of the government venturing into other areas of improving their economy such as diversifying agriculture which will reduce the amount of commodities imported they chose to dehumanized their citizens just for the sake of saving tourism. It turns out that the tourists wants to see the reality on the ground which is seeing the locals. The beggars also happens to be part of the local economy.
The author dedicates her life and career to fight for the cause of the common man. She serves as the voice of the voiceless and gives hope to the hopeless. This story is Fall's protest against a cruel society that its over-ambitions and unpopular policies has made every body a beggar. Fall, our sister from West African Senegal is revolting like The Town-Crier against state induced poverty and under-development that are dancing naked on their streets. The inequalities in the distribution of their common wealth that has created the huge gap that has reduced some to stop at traffic lights to adopt all sort of tricks. The minister of health refers to the beggars as “the dregs of society”. I believe it is wrong to refer to them as “dregs of society” just because they are underprivileged and I also consider it as a total disregard for humanity. If the government put good policies in place that will create employment and provide economy opportunities for their citizens then there will be less beggars in the streets of Dakar. This story is also the denunciation of tyranny, in the author's own country perhaps, or maybe elsewhere?
As much as it is a touching story it is also a very funny story. If the tourists decided not to visit Dakar then it becomes a loss of revenue to the government and therefore affects the whole country, but otherwise if the individuals stops giving alms to the beggars don’t they get better off. I guess it depends on one’s belief.
|
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 11:06:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by ylowe
When we have less children income is more likely to increase. A pay as you go system will take care of alot of problems that we have in our society today.Thanks
i agree. you see there are many problems of society that only education can solve not THE GOVERNMENT. this is why i am not in favour of government bashing, it not the real problem.
i'll give you some examples, a policeman/gov. driver who earns D600 and has two wives, 12 children will not be comfortable even if we had the best government that increased salaries 10 fold. Compared to someone who earns the same amount but with only one child and one wive!
there is overwhelming evidence that income increases when both men and women work, but more importantly when the woman works she also has less children. Again education is the way out.
returning to begging, there is a big scam in it all. there are real beggars and there is institutionalised begging. 'Almodis' are a form of institutionalised begging. What the government did was to ban it and today you dont see children with red tomato pots going around begging. has any one suffered?? this was very common in the 1990s. simply because the clerics who were suppose to teach them the Quran could not afford to feed them and tried to push the cost to society at large!!!
you are right in Senegal/Mali begging is worst try stopping in a petrol station. its more institutionalised even with By-Falls. but they also have a less developed health system so they have more unnecessary disabled people. Polio is still common in senegal and Mali.
a Policaman with D600, two wives will not hesitate to take a third wive and have more children. Any social system under the present circumstances will be bankrupt!!! |
|
|
|
sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 15:54:17
|
21ST CENTURY = MINIMUM WAGE 12DALASI per day (Acceptable conditions of work by law)
Acceptable Conditions of Work (e)
Minimum wages and working hours are established by law through six joint industrial councils, comprised of representatives from labor, management, and the government. The lowest minimum wage, according to law was approximately $0.42 (12 dalasi)UK 25p per day for unskilled labor, but in practice the minimum wage was approximately $1.78 (50 dalasi)UK £1. The national minimum wage did not provide a decent standard of living for a worker and family. The minimum wage law covered only 20 percent of the labor force, essentially those workers in the formal economic sector. A majority of workers were employed privately or were self-employed, often in agriculture. Most citizens did not live on a single worker's earnings and shared resources within extended families. The Department of Labor is responsible for enforcing the minimum wage and it did so when cases of underpayment were brought to its attention.
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/crc/gambia2001.html
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2005/61571.htm |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
|
|
|
jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 17:44:54
|
SAB, do not like your reply, i will happily give to a begger, but when did you last go to st marys banjul and give to 20 beggers, read the postings, it is not about the begging but the numbers.
Do not be sarcastic with me.
I DO GIVE DO YOU
BEGGING IS NOT THE CRIME BUT THE ORGANISATION BEHIND THE BEGINNING, IS.
|
|
|
|
sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 18:55:02
|
| o.k, no more bad vibes, lets both go & give the twenty beggars a Vimto in February... |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
|
|
|
Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 22:24:11
|
| begging is not allow in islam in a generalise ways. one can only beg if you cannot find work or lack food between meal hours. but some beggars are more weloff than those giving. begging as become a trade this is wrong.we should not try to confuse conpassion and causing nuisance. some of the beggars can stay with relative to assist them.some even rent appartments and refuse to accept food ,only bokodabo (money).white papers and colar nuts are resold. so much for charity. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
|
|
|
Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 14:08:12
|
Njucks I agree with you in essence that education and training is key to raising people out of poverty. As you quite rightly suggest there is a link between education and a fall in birth rate. As shown by developed countries like UK were the Aged population is far higher than under 16's. The APRC has started to address the needs of education for girl's which is to be commended. This in turn will eventually lower the birthrate and take pressure off of society as a whole in the next 50 years. However in the interim there needs to be more emphasis placed on capacity building by providing more appropriate education to support adults into job creation and employment.
Charity provides a stop gap rather than a long- term solution to addressing destitution. Therefore it is more charitable to invest in long-term provision aimed at disadvantage groups which will equip people with the necessary skills they need to be able to become more self-sufficient.
I too have given charity to those most in need bringing clothing,stationery etc to Gambia, Supporting people to finish their education, down to giving food and in some cases money to beggars. I prefer to give children food rater than money. The situation for beggars has improved since the early 90's when it was visibly institutionalised compared to now. I think it is more important for government and donors to come up with basic skill programmes that will offer these people a hand-up rather than hand out. With apprioprate basic skill programmes that will support job creation in rural community to halt outermigration into the urban centres. And also to offer more apprenticeship schemes in Urban Centres to tackle high unemployment amongst the youth and long-term unemployed to try to slow down illegal migration.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 16:00:49
|
yeah the problem is indeed complex. and i always think its not just about government but several issues playing at the same time. even though i believe strongly in education i fear it might not be the only solution.
jobs? ok. the best way to create jobs when you have an uneducated population is to go on a massive infrastructure program like building roads, highways, buildings, bridges etc.
These have happened in the last decade definely but who is building them.? Senegalese youths are coming to the gambia to pick showels and build our roads whilst gambian youths drink Attaya at the street junction, dreaming about 'babylon'!!
its difficult to understand this problem, whether it is Pride or what? there are several skills/apprentice schemes and many youths graduate from GTTI with technical skills in plumbing, welding, mechanics but few make it to the job market. Again it is migrant Senegalese mechanics,plumbers,welders etc who dominant the job market.
in some coastal villages, villagers are given fishing boats almost free through japanese grants, but they rent it out to senegalese fishermen rather than fish themselves.
this raises the question is it just about jobs or fulfilling jobs?
what we need i believe is a serious change in individual attitudes.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
