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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 19:19:24
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This should not be a suprise. African governments have to provide hope to its citizens, create jobs, and invest in education.
May be they should close the African Union as its a waste, reduce corruption and be responsive to the masses they represent. Survive they have to, and if it means dying in the desert or being a meal for the sharks, nothing will stop these people.
If Africans dont want to see these stories, then they need to be responsible representatives and serve their people. Individually, representataives are very successful but at national levels its a disaster.
Migration cannot be stopped. Its as old as civilisation and humans have always moved to areas of prosperity or atleast where they think there is hope. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 19:59:26
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Right, migration can't be stopped, but it's death toll could be reduced. EU should give up the inhumane and cynical immigration politics and the cynical, murderous support of 'leaders' and 'presidents' who rob their own people and drive them to desperate actions like these boat trips. Heidemarie Wieczorek-Zeul, the German minister for developmental aid, proposed to stop any payment to corrupt African governments last year. Nice try - I never heard of this proposal again. Instead every few months EU vomits new measures to 'secure' the borders of fortress Europe.  |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 22:57:15
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Leokat I agee with you that things will undoubtedly get worse before they get better. If Rwanda or Dafur are our benchmarks to how many African people have to die before the world takes any notice then we could be waiting a very Longgg time!
quote:
Right, migration can't be stopped, but it's death toll could be reduced
Senerata you've raised a valid point and the crux of the problem is EU fortress Europe policy and their wanton greed of the Earth's resources and denying Africans of the right to have employment both at home and abroad.Many fishing villagers have been destroyed by excessive fishing within their terriorial waters by EU and Far East. This has helped to excerbate this tradegic situation that now has lead to unaccompanied minors floating in the ocean. It looks like more African bodies will have to come ashore on European beaches for there to be real changes to migration laws.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2006 : 23:51:15
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i think the bottom line is at some point if the African governments want to stop this they will. For example fishing boats dont used ordinary fuel. it is mixed will oil. Because it is subsidised(not fully taxed)its difficult to buy and so placing a simple restriction on fuel purchases can stop this nonsense.
it takes atleast a week by boat to the Canary Islands with these small outboard Yamaha engines, and thats a lot of fuel!
Recording boats too would also stop, where a boat is missing the owner should explain!
i just dont know how about 100 people can be in a canoe with enough food, fuel, fresh water, sanitation, belongings, etc for a journey that take up to 10 days!!!! To arrive illegally is one thing but to arrive sick makes you most vulnerable for deportation. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 00:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
i think the bottom line is at some point if the African governments want to stop this they will. For example fishing boats dont used ordinary fuel. it is mixed will oil. Because it is subsidised(not fully taxed)its difficult to buy and so placing a simple restriction on fuel purchases can stop this nonsense.
it takes atleast a week by boat to the Canary Islands with these small outboard Yamaha engines, and thats a lot of fuel!
Recording boats too would also stop, where a boat is missing the owner should explain!
i just dont know how about 100 people can be in a canoe with enough food, fuel, fresh water, sanitation, belongings, etc for a journey that take up to 10 days!!!! To arrive illegally is one thing but to arrive sick makes you most vulnerable for deportation.
We dont want NIA boys at every petrol station asking questions before you can buy fuel. Thats is not a way to discourage this. Infact it will lead to underground mafia style operations which is evern more dangerous.
CREATE JOBS AND SET THE ECONOMY RIGHT AND THEY WILL STAY. WITHOUT HOPE IN THEIR COUNTRIES, THEY WILL GO OUT AND LOOK FOR IT NO MATTER WHAT.
Recording boats and questioning where their boats are is not the role of Government. We have right to own our properties so long as we pay the necessary taxes. Its expensive because more people have to be hired to count all the boats every day. We dont have that kind of money or be able to sustain such jobs which is why the jobless are leaving.
Secondly, may be the govt. should count all cars every day to know which cars are busy smuggling along the border. I am not sure if the police can handle such added duties especially when police vehicles have no fuel to do patrols or ambulances to take the sick to hospitals.
Even Paracetamol is a rare commodity these days. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 00:23:45
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you are right in everything you said. i was merely making a suggestion. the point here is not to infringe on the rights of people but to stop African bodies watching up on the shores of the Atlantic!
please read my text,
1.fishing boats/fishermen dont buy petrol for petrol stations!!
2. it is important to record the fishing boats not only for migration purposes but all vessels leaving land in any normal country are usually recorded so that if there is an emergency, the rescue operation can be done properly. the same is true with Aircraft.
you will agree these people are VICTIMS, perhaps what i meant to say was that, by recording the boats the Middle Men making money (millions) in all this will be isolated and thereby this whole saga will end.
jobs etc , will not not migration. in Spain people are migration to the UK, and British people are also leaving to Spain or other places,
the thing is it has to be as legal as possible but people being promised Spain only to end up in the hands of Spanish police after selling all they have to make the journey is not honest nor a nice thing.
Hence the role of government here is to Protect its citizens from con men,theft,danger trickery.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 00:53:02
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
Hence the role of government here is to Protect its citizens from con men,theft,danger trickery.
They can do this better by creating jobs and getting the economy on a sound footing. Coersive actions only adds more problem. The Europeans are not rsking their lives to come to Africa. There is a reason why ours as africans is so pathetic.
Hope is force multiplier(Cloin Powell) |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 12:42:21
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Colin Powell is not at all stupid (I don't know why he joined that government).
Sister Omega, WHY DON'T THEY BRING UP THE FISHING TOPIC IN THE UN???? Why don't we hear anything about it in our media? This is not the only reason why Africans leave the continent, but for coastal inhabitants in many African countries it is a desaster.
Our media highlight the symptoms much more than the cause. By doing this they create a climate of acceptance for company controlled EU politics. We should start to complain about that.
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leokat
United Kingdom
123 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 13:01:09
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Sister Omega, with reference to your remarks to Serenata.
I have photographic evidence (from the UK newspaper The Sunday Times colour suppliment magazine)of a body washed up on a Tenerife beach. Almost unbelievably there are tourists sitting close by doing nothing.
The photograph is part of a detailed article which appeared in the magazine earlier this year. Since reading this I have heard several other reports of people and bodies being washed up on The Canaries.
Subsiquently, awareness of the situation does seem to have prompted some tourists to help Africans they find washed up on the beaches by offering them towels and water and waiting with them until the authorities arrive.
Sadly Spain's only response seems to be to redouble it's efforts to repatriate illegal imigrants.
Whilst I can understand that small atlantic islands do not have the capacity to cope with large numbers of imigrants it seems just another 'sticking plaster' solution.
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 13:37:27
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precisely,
but i think we must not go too far blaming Europe on this, that is why i suggested dealing with it at source.
infact simply going to the Canary Island is not an intelligent thing to do. Its not Spain proper. they are just landing in the hands of authorities who would simply sent them back after temporary detention/imprisonment.
the truth is that this passage is also not free not refundable. they are just victims who risk their lives to be sent back. its only an experience albeit a dangerous one. |
Edited by - njucks on 30 Nov 2006 13:38:34 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 13:48:03
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| This is what people should know: They waste a lot of (borrowed) money on dangerous adventure trips - nothing more. How many of them are allowed to enter 'real' Europe after the dangerous journey? Does anybody know the approximate percentage? |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 14:30:27
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GRTS needs to focus on the plight of these boat people and highlight the reality on these boat scams. These scammers should also face severe penalities for their unethical expliots.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 15:34:35
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Infact Serenata/SO this did not start this year. Africans have been crossing the Sahara to go to Europe since the 1960s. other dangerous routes included stowing away on merchant ships calling at the ports. occassionally you hear stories of people thrown over board by Russian crew etc.
there is a reason why people are heading for Spain. Spain recently issued a general amnesty to almost 1/2 million immigrants and they also have a law where if an illegal immigrant is detained after 40 days they have to be released or charged or deported. it is these legal loopholes that are being exploited by conmen making stupid promises to people who dont know what is waiting for them.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2006 : 18:29:14
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Africans are not poor. We have money but we dont have wealth. Wealth creation and not money is what we should strive for. the two are different.
If we have good governance and responsible governments who serve their people then we will not risk our lives on the high seas.
In 1807, Africans had to be rescued from slave ships and brought home. In 2006, Africans are now risking the same high seas to leave Africa. History repeats itself but with a diffrence. We are the richest continent in terms of resources but the poorest in wealth creation. This imbalance must be rectified and patronage is the biggest enemy in our continent.
Nigerians are not supposed to be on the boats given all the oil they have, Sierraleone gave the world the biggest diamond ever mined, Liberia supplied most of the tires you use on your cars and specifically the Firestone brand, Gambia has so much fish yet to eat sardines, it has to come from spain.
The story is thesame everywhere. Blame the west for the fishing problems. Hell no. Why do we have governments? Its simply to protect their political constituencies. May be Africans are good at giving up such sacred duties in a Democracy. When Europe wanted to put more duties on South African wine it failed. South Africa responded swiftly with bigger threats and today no european politician complains about South African wine.
Africans dont have anything to offer at negotiations and may be dont just know they have power and therefore feel helpless. There is a reason why we are called sovereign states. It means self reliance. You cant bite the finger that feeds you.
Not that we cannot feed ourselves but that we chose not to but however capable of producing few successful billionares as individuals within a sea of destitude and hopeless masses. This must stop otherwise we will continue to be consumers of civilisation. |
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kiwi
Sweden
661 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 17:31:53
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I happened to find a web page published by a Swedish couple who has been living and working in Teneriffe since a long time. They report daily about the immigration situation on the Canary Islands, particularly Teneriffe, boats coming almost every day. Yesterday arrived ”before the surprised faces of the tourists” a cayuco with 48 passengers, all safe and well, about which 4 were minors and one woman. They claim that totally 30.259 illegal immigrants has , according to the Spanish government arrived this year.
I don´t know what their sources are, my guess is radio and papers. After so many years they obviously speak the language.
With reference to my posting above they say that it is now 48 persons in all found drowned outside West Sahara, nine of them younger than 11 years.
They have also written a short article about children immigrants when they guided a tv team on the island. Here are some short notes from their report:
Jose Luis Arregui, El director general de Protección del Menor, pointed out that we are dealing with a humanitarian drama , unheard of earlier and that a little archipelago such as the Canaries can´t be a ”nursery” for African children. Only during half a September more than 700 minors have arrived in cayucos together wit adults but without their own families. They are exploited thrice, first by families sending children away to a dangerous trip, then maffia taking them over, and thirdly their age make them very vulnerable, he continued.
According to international child protection law, Spain has to take care of the children untill thay are 18 years old.
Physically they are fine but they regret that they are not alowed to work and can´t send home money!
Then followed a visit in a child centre with 85 children. They are divided into four groups, one group is studying Spanish, one is having lunch, one is playing football and the fourth group has gone to the city to learn how to shop in a supermarket or how to queue up in a bank.
They are not in custody, they are free to leave, but why should they?
In other camp there are 90 minors. They were forced to put up an army tent for the newcomers, others live in small cotteges.The youngest boy, Samba is 10-12 years old. He lost track of his elder brother on arrival. He misses mother and father, there are tears in his eyes. Fufana is from Senegal, Ibrahim from Gambia.
They "suck up" the Spanish language, after two weeks they can chat, after a month they speak it fluently. |
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