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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Oct 2006 : 20:23:08
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| but why has the school been allowed to get so bad, if fees are being paid. |
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ranga
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 16:01:09
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Since Gambians do value education for their children, they do pay the necessary fees to send kids to private school, if they can afford it. They also choose the schools that give them the best education for the money. I wonder if this free market exists for Armitage.
Boarding schools usually cost more money and cater to the rich who pay high fees. Armitage appears to be a Government-funded boarding school not close to a population center. Since it is people's money, to be fair to all, are admissions to the school based on merit?
Is the situation with Armitage the exception or more common among other non-boarding schools? Is the student enrollment dropping?
If the Government subsidy is D5,000 for 600 students at Armitage, is it better for the Government to offer 600 scholarships for D5,000 for the best children in any school around the country?
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T.K. "Ranga" Rengarajan
Founder, Geoseed Project
http://www.geoseedproject.com
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 16:22:27
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Ranga good point. very good.
the reality is the Armitage Project is an expired colonial experiment. |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2006 : 19:06:53
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Oh dear oh dear,
All very possitive comments,but Armitage in my opinion should never closedown for this institution is a symbol of pride to many Gambians and I think it is rather unfortunate that the school is been run by foreign teachers rather than its own products who are so plenty in the teaching proffession.When I visited the school last year,I found David Haffner as principal with a sierra leonian vice principal.
But I think childreen do pay their school fees or else they would be turned out of school.I think the fact may be Government fails in their contributions to keep the only bording school up country.Teachers are under paid nationwide and I would be surpriced if Armitage became a victim due to low pay on salaries.
Let me pray for you Armitage:
In the name of God
The merciful the beneficient,
We stand b4 You to have this meal in dinning
We pray you give us long life and keep us away from hunger,
Amen!
Please safe our little village,town and district {Armitage} for future generations.
Amen! |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 21 Oct 2006 19:09:47 |
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ranga
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 02:23:43
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Janyanfara, your note is beautiful and moving. Your pride in and love for Armitage is evident.
Perhaps there is scope for remaking Armitage according to the way of the Gambians, by the Gambians for the Gambians.
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T.K. "Ranga" Rengarajan
Founder, Geoseed Project
http://www.geoseedproject.com
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2006 : 14:27:28
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Isn't it about time that those who benefitted from Armitage and are in a position to help their old school put investment back into it. Maybe mixed funding is the solution for Armitage. If Gambia wants to have better schools the private sector needs to be encouraged to invest in it. What say you?
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 22 Oct 2006 14:32:26 |
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ranga
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 05:34:40
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Sister Omega, it is more sustainable to seek funding from those who will benefit from Armitage in the future rather than seek funding from those who have already benefited in the past. The former feels like a reasonable fee for services, whereas the latter feels like requesting a special favor.
I understand that many other private schools are thriving elsewhere in Gambia.
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T.K. "Ranga" Rengarajan
Founder, Geoseed Project
http://www.geoseedproject.com
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 09:11:28
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Private schools in the UK request fundraisng from their old scholars. The theory is that you should what to support your old school for future generations to benefit. Scholarships are another way of sponsoring children. Both my daughters had choral scholarships to The Minster school in York. They had to work very hard, singing at lots of services and practising long hours.
In York the choice was very stark. We lived in the middle of the city and the choice was between private school and a sink school. There was nothing inbetween.
In THEORY I am AGAINST private education. It was a very difficult decision to let my daughters benefit from this priviledge. It still doesnt rest easy with me. For secondary school my daughters decided for themselves: one went to Bootham school (quaker private school) and one went to state school in Tadcaster.
If you want a democratic, meritocratic society then ALL education really needs to be free and open to all. If I was creating an eductaion system from the beginning there would be NO private schools. You could have centres of excellence for music, arts, sport, science and so on. These would have to provide a national curriculum but have an emphasis in a certain area. This specialisation wouldnt happen until secondary school inthe majority of cases.
At the primary level I think all children should go to their local primary school. The Minster school was in fact the closest school to my house at the time. But many children endured very long journeys to get to this school every day. I dont think this is good for primary aged children. The school should be part of the community and the children should have local friends to play with.
Boarding schools should be band for under 13s. Sending children away from home at the age of 8 is a form of child abuse as far as I am concerned. Children need the security of home and a mother and father figure. Boarding schools have a role to play for children of service families and so on, but not until they are mature enough to decide for themselves what education they want.
Finally I would bann religious schools. Ironic as my own daughters went to one!!!! I think RE in school should be taught as a subject to discuss and NOT as a FACT to INDOCTRINATE small minds. If we want a peaceful, intergrated society then NOT having faith schools would help with this. Children from all religions and none sitting side by side learning about christianity , judaism,Islam, Hinduism etc. 
Any parental preferences for church or mosque should be done in the families own time and not be part of the school curriculum
So In Gambia Armitage could be used as a centre of excellence for the brightest pupils from the age of 11,12,13. The idea would be to prepare them for further academic studies at university. The starting point for doctors, teachers and so on. The government should fund this. Perhaps pupils that benefit could have to sign a contract to say they will work in Gambia for 3 years (say?) after qualifying in their chosen profession. That way they will 'repay' what they have had from society back to society before they leave the country for usa or europe!!!! |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 09:48:17
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| Armitage is not a religious school but in dire need of support! |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2006 : 10:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
If you want a democratic, meritocratic society then ALL education really needs to be free and open to all.
one of your leading contributions to the Bantaba. In practice i am against Private Education especially for very poor countries. In the long term it only breeds a priviledged class who know nothing about their country. Armitage is not a private school, so to say. its half way in between.
even if the governement gives them money i dont think it should be any more than what they give the school next door. Why? whats so special? history? there are schools older than armitage. that have educated an equal number of people who have made it to important positions. Mohamedan in Banjul has celebrated 100yrs and this was almost 3 years ago.
this nagging should stop.there is no need for boarding in a school in gambia of 2006! the reasons why Armitage was established dont exist anymore. those who wish to continue this expensive habit should do so with thier own money and stop crying foul!
maybe they should learn from the Catholic Church some of their schools have been running since 1880s !!
here's a tip. reduce the number of students and raise the fee. who does that help??
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 19:50:10
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
If you want a democratic, meritocratic society then ALL education really needs to be free and open to all.
one of your leading contributions to the Bantaba. In practice i am against Private Education especially for very poor countries. In the long term it only breeds a priviledged class who know nothing about their country. Armitage is not a private school, so to say. its half way in between.
even if the governement gives them money i dont think it should be any more than what they give the school next door. Why? whats so special? history? there are schools older than armitage. that have educated an equal number of people who have made it to important positions. Mohamedan in Banjul has celebrated 100yrs and this was almost 3 years ago.
this nagging should stop.there is no need for boarding in a school in gambia of 2006! the reasons why Armitage was established dont exist anymore. those who wish to continue this expensive habit should do so with thier own money and stop crying foul!
maybe they should learn from the Catholic Church some of their schools have been running since 1880s !!
here's a tip. reduce the number of students and raise the fee. who does that help??
You seem to be very bitter about Armitage. Well if you believe in capitalism, why not private education. If there is a right price, there will be the right schools. Put schools on the market and let economics decide as in a free market.
Whether we like it or not Armitage is a national heritage. That history has already been enetered in the books.
In addition you seem to miss the point why it was a school for sons of chiefs initially. The chiefs being persons of authority, by sending their sons to school helped others to be bold enough to not send their kids to the MADRASSAS THAT YOU SO OPENLY HAVE DISTASTE FOR.
In a way, Armitage opened doors to many unlikely people years ago and still relevant today. It was not intended as an elite school for the priviledge. It has long since ceased to be school for the chiefs. Infact throught out the years i was there, i could only rememeber only one student who was a son of a chief. Infact the father became a chief long after he joined armitage. It was by accident.
Very poor students on the brink of destitude saw Armitage as the only hope to educate themselves. An annual school fee of D45.00 was too much for many students families to pay. Some were sent home to collect this very small amount. Thanks to people like late Dodou Jobe, the Bursar and later "Old", many were helped.It was a manifestation of the British Indirect rule system doctored by Lord Luggard. The protectorate was ruled by Chiefs directly with Travelling Magistrates and Commissioners as representatives of the Crown.
Today, i dare say, that students of Armitage have been at the fore of national development.
What plans do you have for the infrastructure that is is already built. Where would these students go to? We have talked about rural urban migration here. Armitage helped reduce that drift for many years. Infact many in Banjul and the Kombos went to school there. A large number of the Lebanesse Community in Capepoint, Fajara, and Pipeline, and also a large number of the Aku Marabout people in Banjul have strong ties to this town and many were infact born there. The Diabs and Deens have strong ties there.
Georgetown helped build many of the nice houses and businesses you see in Banjul. The town being an island is its biggest enemy but it was startegic.
Students in the Kombos are being subsidised by all of us through school buses. Therefore why should we not subsidise students at Armitage. We are all tax payers. You seem to be stiff-necked regarding Armitage. One school bus can cost more than one million dalasis. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. How about spare parts, fuel, congestion on the road. There are many reasons why Armitage should continue. History is not on my list.
Just because we have become incompetent and indifferent to others is no reason to close the school. If we can build marble homes, then Armitage can go on. The problem is misguided priorities. Like Youssou Ndour said: LINGA DON SO KO BANYEH, DAFA FEKA NGA GEN SA NYAW.( If you distaste your history, its because you stood on the wrong side of your heritage). Armitage is a heritage that we should all be proud of. As the school motto says: ENTER TO LEARN, GO FORTH TO SERVE. Indeed we served the Gambia well and its time for Gambians to acknolede that.
You are right Mohammedan is 100 years but a primary and not a tertiary institution. That is the difference. Armitage is 79 years with over 200,000 high school graduates in our system. tell me which high school has that record. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 20:14:06
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i know its passionate for you and i can understand where you are coming from. . but this blinds your judgement.
also dont overestimate things. 200,000!!! where did you get that from.
anyway the point is, i'm not for closing any school but you have to face facts. the point i was trying to make is that at that time, there were no high schools and it helped many people. now things are better, perhaps to survive armitage could serve the rural folk better and cheaper if they became a day school. the reality, which it the current problem is they need money to fix the problem.
operating as an expensive boarding school and not being able to offer students a good education doesnt help anyone, especially the rural people who would lose out even more.
i am not against subsidies. infact i would go further to say people in the greater banjul area should be taxed to pay for several rural services like health,education,water etc.
but its the reality we must face. thats the had bit. having a vestigial attitude is not helpful.
yes school buses were subsidised and it cost at that time D0.25 (1995)!!! even this was too expensive and there were never enough buses. you want to/ rely on the same source to fund a boarding school!!!
i have nothing against Armitage, but if it has to surviive kindly suggest another option.
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Edited by - njucks on 24 Oct 2006 20:29:02 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 21:52:11
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
i know its passionate for you and i can understand where you are coming from.. but this blinds your judgement.
also dont overestimate things. 200,000!!! where did you get that from.
anyway the point is, i'm not for closing any school but you have to face facts. the point i was trying to make is that at that time, there were no high schools and it helped many people. now things are better, perhaps to survive armitage could serve the rural folk better and cheaper if they became a day school. the reality, which it the current problem is they need money to fix the problem.
operating as an expensive boarding school and not being able to offer students a good education doesnt help anyone, especially the rural people who would lose out even more.
i am not against subsidies. infact i would go further to say people in the greater banjul area should be taxed to pay for several rural services like health,education,water etc.
but its the reality we must face. thats the had bit. having a vestigial attitude is not helpful.
yes school buses were subsidised and it cost at that time D0.25 (1995)!!! even this was too expensive and there were never enough buses. you want to/ rely on the same source to fund a boarding school!!!
i have nothing against Armitage, but if it has to surviive kindly suggest another option.
On average armitage has 300 students on campus. for 79 years , you do the math. Now with double shifts, the average is even higher. My figure is conservative. Ofcourse many have died many years ago having done their duty to country.
The neo classical economic theories dont work here. Even in europe there are subsidies. I am glad you raised its impact on trade with africa on another topic.
Who are we subsidising. Ourselves. The problem is politics has taken over the management of the school. If you are not very green, you are sacked or forced to leave. Ask Musa Sanneh about it. Get politics out of the schools and you get dedicated teachers.
Armitage had no shortage of teachers even with Marina and Mrs Ndow operating. The leadership and independence needed in the days of Ablie Ceesay (MBORR) should be restored. The Commissioners then had authority as Board Chairman to assist the school through its office. Waa Juwara was very influential and helpful to the school. Now Commissioners are so political, administrative functions are now in the garbage cans.
The problem is organisational effectiveness which many public institutions suffer from and decisions are always made putting on a green reading glasses. Unfortunately, the glasses are programmed to see only one colour.
Headboys are so political that teachers are helpless in managing institutions. No wonder the teacher in Brikama had to report Ebrima Barry to the fire service for a school problem which the Principal was ineffective to adjucate. When authority is eroded and held by a few, it will not be a suprise if the Fire service officeres are called upon to punish a student and unfortunately he died which led to the deaths of 10 students.
At the same time the Brikama market caught fire many times and they could not put it off yet they had time to poke their noses in routine school administration.
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2006 : 23:08:38
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ofcourse not all the students on campus graduate every year. even so. 300 x 79 = 23,700!! double that for morning/afternoon shift. even add night school its still not 200,000.
remember we are now only 1.3m(2003), 250,000(~1950) and probably 100,000(~1920). one school cannot produce so many graduates!
i will stick to my maths and you win on your old school. the problem whatever it is, funding or admin cannot be solved by relying on old practices. face today and make difficult decision ortherwise even the gates will rust.
we share the same feeling even though i didnt go there. i would like to see it survive but there is a reason why there hasnt been another baording school in 79 yrs. they are expensive worldwide. and this is the problem especially if your backer/funders dont have money themselves.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2006 : 01:45:53
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| I added a zero by mistake. Sorry. |
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