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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 13:12:55
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well maybe we/bantaba folk should start a website where real tourist talk about their '' GAMBIA EXPERIENCE''.
it will be a WIKI site where you (e.g gambiabev, leokat, etc) any tourist can edit/write about tips,DOs & Don'ts, advise, responsible tourism, recommend guides, share pictures, etc. just like Wikipedia.
i know there are many websites about tourism but one by tourists themselves (real people) not companies would be a good idea. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2006 : 22:23:25
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Njucks, we have something like that on the Dutch Gambia-page - it's funny to read sometimes, but also irritating because everyone considers him or herself to be THE Gambia expert. It is good that there's a forum where people can gather information, but it happens that when a person has given the information from their own experience, another poster will send in a message that this is the silliest information possible. It's not always very friendly and respectful!
Gambia6005, i am certainly not one of 'them' (whoever you might mean) and i am not in the process of covering up for anybody. I am sure the Terre des Hommes report is real, and i read your posting with it shamefacedly - simply because Dutch people were involved. But i am glad that you count Dutchmen among your friends, and that you let us know that some of my fellow countrymen and women living in the Gambia are generous. I am sure you know that some of them are trying to give meaningful aid on a small scale to the Gambians who are their neighbours and friends out there.
Bev, i see that you know what i meant to say about some misbehaving tourists. But to tell you the truth, i love to lunch on a glass of white wine and a big fruit salad. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 12:27:39
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Anna, I talked about rumours, not proven facts. And when I see that in Germany an African who did some small drug dealings was given the same punishment as a father who raped his daughter over years and sold photos of his crimes via internet (these two cases were at the courts in one and the same week), I feel that something is wrong. Look at the ridiculous sentences child rapers in Germany ususally get, and this uneasy feeling will deepen.
I don't know about the Holland House case, but I think it is alarming that this hotel was known as a place for paedophiles for a long time, and in his home country the owner was accused for 'only' two rapes. I don't care if this country is Germany, the Netherlands, UK, France or Sweden. Sentences like this are a sign for structural violence committed by the 'First' world to the 'Third' . |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 18:44:55
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gambia6005, you ask where can you report this situation to the VP she is a woman who would want to know about this, to your MP, councillor, to the sheriffs office, to the school teachers, welfare protection agency, church, mosque, local akollo can you report to the next police station. 
 The abuse is by foreigners, but what about the Gambians involved, please do not let them get away with this
what ever you do
do not let it go unheeded |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2006 : 22:50:53
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Jambo, you are right - sexual abuse should never go unheeded and i hope Gambia6005 takes the formal way, reporting wherever it can be reported. Even to the VP if that is the way to go. But evidence will be asked for, so see to it that you can provide it because before you know it the ball will be bounced back and you will be accused of slander. And Gambians are involved sometimes. Some families are so desperate that they offer their own children 'for sale'. I think we discussed this a long time ago on this forum.
Serenata, i always read your postings and i respect your views. It just seemed strange to me to state here that 'there are paedophiles among judges and attorneys, because it is wellknown that people with a weak personality like to see themselves in jobs where they have authority over others'. First of all it would make me look strangely at a judge or an attorney if i would ever come across one (not that i meet people in this profession on a daily basis, on the contrary - i never have anything to do with them) and also it made me think 'what about us teachers?'. Are we in this profession because we have weak personalities (and because of that we could have paedophilic tendencies?).
Well, i thought about this a lot and i am glad you say that it was rumours you were talking about and not factual.
Furthermore, i have to say that sentences for child abuse are too low here in Holland compared to sentences for drug trafficing etc. Many people are unhappy with this, but maybe it is not known that apart from a time in jail, the accused will be sentenced to 'TBS' - after imprisonment the accused will be in some sort of institution for treatment so as to make him or her better adapted to function in society. For now i cannot believe that the sentence for a black child abuser would differ from the sentence for a white child abuser - minimum/maximum sentences are decided on by law. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 00:16:50
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Anna, there are paedophiles among teachers (also among businessmen, engineers, etc.) but like for judges and attorneys I would of course never dare saying that everybody in one of these professions has such an ill disposition or even a tendency to it. After all, this is what I didn't do in my posting. I said that these professions also could attract the mentioned weak personalities.
Finally, let me say that I also respect your postings; almost always I find interesting and enlightening aspects there. |
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Momodou
Denmark
11826 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 00:54:44
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Serenata and Anna, In Denmark there was a judge who was fired in 2005 because of him being a paedophile.
This man who was one of the leading experts working for the state as a chat consultant with regards to young people and dangers of the internet was himself caught red handed on camera on Danish TV2's program “Operation X” last August. Read the story in Danish at: http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2006/09/06/081737.htm
The case is still on going.
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 06:47:21
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Ai, what a strange language! I cannot read it Momodou, but i am convinced this story is about what you told us it would be about.
Serenata, a few weeks ago two male teachers (twins, each of them working in a different primary school!) were picked up by the police because of child abuse that took place in the south of Holland some 10 years ago. So, there are definitely paedophiles among us teachers. Of course i understood very well that you didn't mean to say that probably all judges, attorneys, teachers etc. would be ..........
Enough said, don't you think? It is all very sad. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 08:10:53
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It is all very sad. Rather than an issue of developed against developing world. I think it is an issue of SOME sick MENS attitude towards women and young girls and boys. Not many women have this sickness.
As Europe tightens the net on these people they are being forced to look for other 'markets'. This is what brings them to Africa.
The internet and mobile phones has allowed them to become more organised and also allowed others to view their sick product that would otherwise NOT have been directly involved.
Personally, I do think there is a difference between LOOKING at images and actually COMMITTING the acts. BOTH are sick, but for some that are looking they will NEVER cross over into DOING. It could even be a safety valve? When the police find these rings of people it is always shocking how many people are involved and the respectable backgrounds of the people too. It really is an ILLNESS that at the moment there seems no cure for. So the only answer is VERY long prison sentences to keep them away from children.
We need to be vigilant about what men we allow our children to be alone with. It is very sad. When I was a child I had a very close friendship with an elderly male neighbour. His daughter never married, so I was like his grand child. Now this relationship would be viewed with suspicion. These awful men have made parents wary of ALL men. I think you have to trust your GUT instinct and LISTEN to your child. If your child doesnt like someone that you send them to, there could be an unspoken reason. I told my daughters they could tell me ANYTHING. If you have an open relationship HOPEFULLY they will trust you enough to speak the unspeakable. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 10:53:14
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quote:
Personally, I do think there is a difference between LOOKING at images and actually COMMITTING the acts. BOTH are sick, but for some that are looking they will NEVER cross over into DOING. It could even be a safety valve?
gambiabev to download or buy child ponography is to fuel the supply for child sex abuse and to place even more children in danger of being abused by paedophiles. Therefore the looker is just as guilty as the abuser because he or she is getting aroused from the act that's why they are demanding these pictures. How can children who are being violated be a safety valve for others not to be violated? Your statement doesn't make much sense to me. As for my views on the subject there should be Zero tolerance of child pornography. Children need to be protected from predators and their sympathisers.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 11:04:30
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at some point one African/Third World country would have to set an example by doing something really extreme to stop these sick sick people.
its just a matter of time. when it happens i hope the European press which seems to be silinet so far will be fair on us!! |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 11:13:38
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I hope this year the Gambian authorities will be even more vigilant by issuing public information for all Gambians to make their children aware of sexual predators. Children should be taught about stranger danger and also be made aware that it's not always strangers who are abusers. This could be done through a National Competition for the best illustration for a poster, through drama. music etc. But something more needs to be done to protect children.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 13:21:59
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
As Europe tightens the net on these people they are being forced to look for other 'markets'. This is what brings them to Africa.
Personally, I do think there is a difference between LOOKING at images and actually COMMITTING the acts. BOTH are sick, but for some that are looking they will NEVER cross over into DOING. It could even be a safety valve?
If your child doesnt like someone that you send them to, there could be an unspoken reason. I told my daughters they could tell me ANYTHING. If you have an open relationship HOPEFULLY they will trust you enough to speak the unspeakable.
Bev, I agree with Sister Omega: Anyone (except for prosecutors) who watches those pictures and videos is taking part, contributes to the 'market' and increases the danger for all children.
Paedophiles didn't go to Africa, Asia or Latin America after Europe's tightening of the net. They also did it before; at least since the late 70s. And why? Because for Europeans/Americans etc. raping children is cheaper and less dangerous in poor countries than it is in Europe or US. For me, this is an issue of developed against developing world.
Your last point is really important: Take children serious, and encourage them to talk about anything - even the 'unspeakable'. From my childhood I remember a man I disliked very much. As I was a well protected child he never dared doing anything to me, but later I heard that he had raped several children.
Njucks, I also think this would be necessary. The more drastic the better. Bev is right: These people are severely ill. But they should look for treatment, and if they don't see any need for this, they should face the consequences.
This is really a very sad and disgusting topic, and I think fortunately it is not the main phenomenon in Gambia's tourism. But as long as it happens, everybody should stay alert. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 13:29:39
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| Thanks Momodou. Like Anna, I have big difficulties reading the Danish language; if I hear it I understand much more (funny enough this is quite opposite to my skills in Nederlands). Unfortunately you can't read it to me, but your informations where ok to understand a bit. I fear this is not the only case... |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2006 : 18:42:23
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Sorry Sister Omega and serenata, what I meant was that for some men looking a pictures of child porn may stop them committing the acts themselves. (or it could I suppose desensitises them? I am not sure)
I am in no way saying it is acceptable.
In school we teach stranger danger, but sadly ALOT (or MOST) abuse is usually within the family or someone who has befriended the family. That is why it is important REALLY important that children have a voice, and they are LISTENED to.
Sometimes children exhibt precocious behaviour when playing with other children eg touching them inappropriately. This can be a sign that this child has been a victim of abuse. So if you witness this, rather than tell the child off, try to find out how this behaviour has been introduced to them. Sometimes it is an older sibling in the same family.
It is a very complex issue. It is not easily solved. Giving children the right to say NO is important. |
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