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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:06:13
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Well it would be a difference if it were not built along the source of our river. Gambia river with definitely suffer water shortage as the flow is interrupted to feed the turbines. Its no magic. The water has to come from somewhere and its just logical that with increased demand for water to feed the turbines, the amount of water flow to Gambia will reduce. Infact with the advancement of the Sahara desert every year southwards, rainfall is becoming is dwindling.
In fact this phenomenon had manifested it self before Lady Chilel sunk. Navigation was becoming difficult due to siltation and reduced water in the river.
You seem to be very reactionary on this issue. Dams have led to many ecological problems around the world. There are many examples. Its effects are currently being felt in China. With the dwindling rainfall in our sub region, it requires a careful study and ecological impact. Certainly, saline intrusion is a major concern. I will tell your fish like KULUDOMO, KONO KONO which are local names of fish which used to be caught in our rivers is no longer found in areas where saline water has intruded. Rice cultivation is being threatened by this phenomenon thanks to low rainfall and the consequent saline intrusion. As rainfall drops so does the supply of water from the Futa Djallon highlands. Consequently, ocean water pushes its way in to the interior, killing both flora and fauna that survive on fresh water. Almost half the length of the river is now saline.
Fresh water fish cannot survive under such conditions. i guess you are not trying to infer that you are more patriotic and receptive to development. Yes we may have electricity, but at what price. OMVG was set up partly as a result and this idea of putting up a dam had been advised against even in times of heavy rain in yester years.
I have personally raised this issue with the most authoritative Gambian on the OMVG body whom i know personally many years ago. I am just concerned about the sudden u-turn. He now a permanent secretary in the Gambia.
May be we have become much clever now and better prepared. However dams have a lot of ecological impacts. Ghana in 1957 embarked on the program. They produced excess electricity and even supplied Togo and Benin. Today the City of Accra is as dark as charcoal. When you travel to areas like APEKA LAPASSE, NUNGUA, etc you cannot but see the impact. Water shortage is everywhere because poor generation, the dams sources is drying up, fish stocks in Ghana is at its worst which gave rise to Ghana Town in the Gambia.
I want development but I want sustainable development and very concerned of ecological issues.
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:06:36
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quote:
if we have the moeny the dam will/must be built.
Njucks if this project is a reality, what are the positives and negatives? if you know. |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:13:06
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
Well it would be a difference if it were not built along the source of our river. Gambia river with definitely suffer water shortage as the flow is interrupted to feed the turbines. Its no magic. The water has to come from somewhere and its just logical that with increased demand for water to feed the turbines, the amount of water flow to Gambia will reduce. Infact with the advancement of the Sahara desert every year southwards, rainfall is becoming is dwindling.
In fact this phenomenon had manifested it self before Lady Chilel sunk. Navigation was becoming difficult due to siltation and reduced water in the river.
You seem to be very reactionary on this issue. Dams have led to many ecological problems around the world. There are many examples. Its effects are currently being felt in China. With the dwindling rainfall in our sub region, it requires a careful study and ecological impact. Certainly, saline intrusion is a major concern. I will tell your fish like KULUDOMO, KONO KONO which are local names of fish which used to be caught in our rivers is no longer found in areas where saline water has intruded. Rice cultivation is being threatened by this phenomenon thanks to low rainfall and the consequent saline intrusion. As rainfall drops so does the supply of water from the Futa Djallon highlands. Consequently, ocean water pushes its way in to the interior, killing both flora and fauna that survive on fresh water. Almost half the length of the river is now saline.
Fresh water fish cannot survive under such conditions. i guess you are not trying to infer that you are more patriotic and receptive to development. Yes we may have electricity, but at what price. OMVG was set up partly as a result and this idea of putting up a dam had been advised against even in times of heavy rain in yester years.
I have personally raised this issue with the most authoritative Gambian on the OMVG body whom i know personally many years ago. I am just concerned about the sudden u-turn. He now a permanent secretary in the Gambia.
May be we have become much clever now and better prepared. However dams have a lot of ecological impacts. Ghana in 1957 embarked on the program. They produced excess electricity and even supplied Togo and Benin. Today the City of Accra is as dark as charcoal. When you travel to areas like APEKA LAPASSE, NUNGUA, etc you cannot but see the impact. Water shortage is everywhere because poor generation, the dams sources is drying up, fish stocks in Ghana is at its worst which gave rise to Ghana Town in the Gambia.
I want development but I want sustainable development and very concerned of ecological issues.
Kondorong can you elucidate more of the highlighted portion. Since when has Accra turned to charcoal? GhanaTown in Brufut has been there for close to forty years. So am confused when you say it came about because of depleting fish stcok in Ghana or rivers drying up in Ghana. |
madiss |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:15:50
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| I lived in Accra in NUngua area. We bought water from donkey carts with barrel of water on them. The taps are dry because of no electricity to pump. The dam is now a failure. I am a living witness of development euphoria. Accra has serious shoratge of electricity. They have moved from exporters of electricty to being in deficit |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:16:51
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| good night |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:18:16
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
I lived in Accra in NUngua area. We bought water from donkey carts with barrel of water on them. The taps are dry because of no electricity to pump. The dam is now a failure. I am a living witness of development euphoria. Accra has serious shoratge of electricity. They have moved from exporters of electricty to being in deficit
When was that? I lived in Ghana too. I lived in Tessano. |
madiss |
Edited by - MADIBA on 02 Aug 2006 02:19:09 |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 02:46:04
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thanks Kondorong for that reply and the concerns you raised, yes dams have environmental consequences but show me a development project that doesnt? recently a major Wind Farm was stopped in the UK simply because of ''not in my backyard '' attitude
but i think you are missing a lot of technical facts, i'm not sure if you understand it.
first if you dam a river the sediments stay in the reservoir, not after. so for navigation this seems a good idea .
secondly, where do you think the water goes after turning the turbines??? dams work simply by using the elevated potential of water. so large amounts of water are released from a height through a small tunnels in which a turbine is placed. the water comes out and rejoins the river. no loss of matter or water?
when Akosombo dam was built in Ghana they had excess electricity. if they are stupid enough not to seek new sources of electricty as their population and economy expands that has nothing to do with the dam?
i am not reactionary but you know as much as i know that no one will sponsor a major program like this without all the issues being addressed? the gains just have to be measure against the loss.
Madiba, well the gains are electricty, an international grid/network connecting four countries which can also be used for cheap high speed telecommunications. once you have a grid connecting many countries you can then trade electricty, so it doent matter where the power is coming from , if someone doesnt need it you can use it. this is very reliable and stable. possibly increased land for irrigation of rice etc, controlling the saline intrusion.
the negatives like any other dam are, where the reservoir will be people will have to be relocated, migrating fish will have to be trapped some where but you can always introduce the species on any end or create a divertion especially for them. another negative impact could be water borne diseases but this will only be local where the reservoir is. normally people dont live there but it can affect livesstock and animals.
i hope this is useful, dont be moved by the alarmists |
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ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 04:04:47
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| During the industrial revolution in the United states of America, the environment was pretty dirty but with time things got better. I agree with you (njucks) that when benefits exceeds cost we should go for it.We should also deal with the issues that also comes with some development initiatives. |
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ranga
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 06:22:42
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| How far from the sea is the water in the Gambia river saline? I assume this point changes with the tides. Has that point moved up the river over the years for some reason? In general is there shortage of drinking water in Gambia? |
T.K. "Ranga" Rengarajan
Founder, Geoseed Project
http://www.geoseedproject.com
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 09:42:07
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I have just come back from Spain. There they have a waater shortage, party due to climate, but partly due to tourism develpment.
All those swimming pools, golf courses etc....Plus every day all the showers and baths taken, all the towels to be washed etc.....
IF Gambia wants to expand tourism it needs to learn from Spains experiences. PERSONALLY I would say no more golf courses in Gambia! (But then I dont play golf! ). There are plenty of other places in the world to play golf.
Also in hotels I would encourage people to reuse towels rather than exect a new one everyday. Showers could be on timers and so on. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 11:52:25
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quote:
Originally posted by ranga
How far from the sea is the water in the Gambia river saline? I assume this point changes with the tides. Has that point moved up the river over the years for some reason? In general is there shortage of drinking water in Gambia?
Ranga, Kondorong said there is salt up to Farafeni, so that must be about 200KM up river!!!. i dont know how true this is. anyway what i do know is most of the river bank is covered with mangroves naturally which need salty water anyway. but the salt line in all honesty doesnt not vary with the tide but more with the rainy season and dry season when the river is at max and min respectively. technically there is no shortage of drinking water in The Gambia, there is enough for everyone. like all developing countries its the lack of money and equipment,electricty to pump it to people which is the problem.
In most african countries drinking water is not from water treatment facilites but rather it is from aquifers. so this has nothing to do with the River or a dam. Aquifers are refilled every rainy season.
i agree too ylowe, the environment should not be a veto to development but rather a guide for reducing the impacts.
infact our use of low forms of energy like firewood and charcoal has a more dangerous effect on the environment because, women get lung cancer and diseases from the smoke, deforestation happens because we dont replant trees, less precipitation/rain because we cut down tress, loss of biodiversity because the habits are destroyed, grenhousegases are released, etc etc
you can only do one thing with firewood but several stuff with electricity.
lack of electricity is why you cannot keep drugs in rural communities and save millions of lives.
we must move up the energy ladder.
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 17:20:01
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Njucks, THERE IS SALT IN THE WATER UP TO FARAFENNI! I tasted it this year in January. But maybe I was hallucinating.
Damned dams. 'Nothing bad will happen'- this is the usual crap they are telling when they want to sell this technology. It makes me furious to hear all this b******t over and over again. As I told you before, read Arundhati Roy's 'The Cost of Living'. Then you may know whose interests are respected. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 19:18:47
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Njucks, THERE IS SALT IN THE WATER UP TO FARAFENNI! I tasted it this year in January. But maybe I was hallucinating.
Damned dams. 'Nothing bad will happen'- this is the usual crap they are telling when they want to sell this technology. It makes me furious to hear all this b******t over and over again. As I told you before, read Arundhati Roy's 'The Cost of Living'. Then you may know whose interests are respected.
to be fair the dam has not being built yet, so if there is salt there then its a natural thing or development. no one is selling anything , the initiative is from our side. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 19:22:37
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| The salt is now natural, but what if there is more? Salt is already a problem in Gambia; do you need more of this? |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2006 : 21:12:07
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quote:
Originally posted by njucks
quote:
Originally posted by ranga
How far from the sea is the water in the Gambia river saline? I assume this point changes with the tides. Has that point moved up the river over the years for some reason? In general is there shortage of drinking water in Gambia?
Ranga, Kondorong said there is salt up to Farafeni, so that must be about 200KM up river!!!. i dont know how true this is. anyway what i do know is most of the river bank is covered with mangroves naturally which need salty water anyway. but the salt line in all honesty doesnt not vary with the tide but more with the rainy season and dry season when the river is at max and min respectively. technically there is no shortage of drinking water in The Gambia, there is enough for everyone. like all developing countries its the lack of money and equipment,electricty to pump it to people which is the problem.
In most african countries drinking water is not from water treatment facilites but rather it is from aquifers. so this has nothing to do with the River or a dam. Aquifers are refilled every rainy season.
i agree too ylowe, the environment should not be a veto to development but rather a guide for reducing the impacts.
infact our use of low forms of energy like firewood and charcoal has a more dangerous effect on the environment because, women get lung cancer and diseases from the smoke, deforestation happens because we dont replant trees, less precipitation/rain because we cut down tress, loss of biodiversity because the habits are destroyed, grenhousegases are released, etc etc
you can only do one thing with firewood but several stuff with electricity.
lack of electricity is why you cannot keep drugs in rural communities and save millions of lives.
we must move up the energy ladder.
If you want evidence you can contact the World Bank directly or the Projects Implementation Unit of the Department of State for Agriculture. The Small Scale Agricultural Project in Niamina Dankunku failed as a result of saline intrusion. The project Manager was one Mr. Jarjussey if my memory serves me right.The salt water currently has passed Farafenni. Even in Kuntaur, its effects are being felt. People get fresh water from Wassu, from the wells. Wassu is where the Stone Circles are.
It is rudimentary geography to say that the salt water is tied to tides. It’s much more than that. We are not looking at a lagoon or a lake or a marshland. The major reason is acute rainfall the sub region is experiencing. With the advancement of the Sahara desert southwards, water shortage is now more urgent an issue than ever before. As a former herdsman and farmer, when after rainstorms, fish used to swim in the dry valleys with the storm waters, I can definitely relate to this. Ask many children in our villages if they have heard of the word SELEMO. I bet you will be luck if 2% know about it. After big storms fish could be caught in these one time dry valleys in the hinterland. This process of catching fish not in a river or lake is called SELEMO. It comes as a flash in a pan so you must do it while there is runoff.
In fact if you travel to the interior, you cannot but notice the high riverbanks and how low the water level has gone down. In fact in many areas there used to be canal irrigation before the World Bank projects of the 1970s. We never needed to pump water into the rice fields. The river level was so high, that during high tide, farmers open up canals and their fields are flooded for FREE. As a young man, I have helped my mother in closing the canals after our fields were full of water.
If you travel to the wetlands between Kuntaur, Jaka Baa, Touba, Palan, Wassu, Dankunku, Sankulay Kunda, Jenoi, Pacharr, Jahali, Brikama Ba, Kayai, Sukuta etc, you will appreciate what I am talking about. It is in recognition of these areas contribution to rice cultivation that the GPMB (Gambia Produce Marketing Board) set up one of the most modern milling complex Gambia ever saw. Companies like GRT (Gambia River Transport) helped transport these agricultural produce via tugboats to Denton Bridge at Sarro. It was locally known as GOM.
The Chinese mainly in the towns of Sankulay Kunda and Jahali preceded World Bank irrigation projects. In fact, the only memorial dedicated to their work is now at Sankulay Kunda just before the Ferry Terminal on the left from Yorro Belly Kunda. A bust represents the chief of the mission. This was when Jawara announced that Gambia was now ready to export rice.
Irrigation is very new in the Gambia and it gained popularity with the dwindling rainfall. Now, it’s more acute. The river level is so low irrigation is even costlier. The entire world Bank Projects have died out with dwindling rainfall. The rice fields have become burial grounds for the rusty power tillers, tractor parts and old generators. Gambia noticed this water shortage crisis, which led to the setting up of a regional body called OMVG to which we still are member. I hope.
I have made over 1800 postings on this forum and I stand by all of them. I don’t make postings for political or personal desires. I make postings based on life experiences or authentic and credible reports. Gambia had almost 40 Public Enterprises during the PPP regime all working in various forms. In fact GPMB was so powerful, it owned a large part of the Commercial Bank and many others like CITRO Products etc. Today those companies only exist in memory.
I have not missed any National Assembly meeting between 1990 and 1994. I attended all of them. So I know what happened in the country to my fingertips. I always applied for a ticket in the public gallery in the Assembly. Sometimes I was so frequent that I naturally was allocated a ticket because I never failed showing up. The failure of the Small Scale project was discussed in parliament when I was there. The saline intrusion was tabled by the then Agriculture Minister from a question posed by Waa Juwara.
Be rest assured that you will not find me wanting.
Beside, Senegal has very little to loose from water shortage compared to Gambia. Politically they would not care. The recent border stand off was because the Senegalese were angry why we increased the tariff on the Ferry without consulting them. I stand by our President on this. Gambia is a sovereign nation and we do not have to consult any country in matters of national policies.
I have heard rumors when they wanted to build a bridge across the river in Farafenni to secure their way to Cassamance. They were to do it as a joint project between both countries. The greatest flashing point will come when they manage to set up interest in the Gambia and gives them legitimate rights to invade our borders to protect their investment. It’s a rumor i cannot verify. I am very weary of any joint project that Gambia has to embark with Senegal. In fact they are contemplating digging a tunnel underneath the Gambia to by pass our ferry. It is no doubt that Senegal is actually patronizing the ferry in Barra and Yelli Tenda.
I would recommend you read an article called “Senegambia Alliance or Entente” published just before independence. This “misunderstanding” (alliance and entente) clearly defines the motives for the breakdown of the Senegmabia Confederation in 1989 and why the border impasse will always be with us. We should brace for many more. It has been like this since 18 February 1965. There were sponsored groups who advocated that we should be an independent territory. Our case in fact had to be tabled at the United Nations. I am not sure how many counties were discussed at the UN.
Our biggest problem in the Gambia is not doing enough research analysis. Unfortunately, the Policy Analysis Unit under the Office of the President has always been busy about salary issues than anything else. What we need is people with authoritative and analytical issues not only from an economic point of view but also historical and geographical perspectives.
Regional projects in Africa have failed woefully and this one will be no exception. Air Afrique is a recent addition to the list. The East African Railways has become a shadow of itself. The Mano River Basin is history. The Senegambia Confederation is history. In fact Senegal joined with French Sudan (former name of Mali) to form the Mali Federation in January 1959. It broke down in August 1960. Tell me one working regional project in Africa. They end up seizing each other’s properties. There are still many unsolved problems like these all over the continent. What are the guarantees that Gambia will not loose out in this especially when all the investment is outside our borders? We can only hope a good will on the part of our partners. Ask the Tanzanians and Ugandans. They will tell you their experiences. Kwammeh Nkrummah was removed by the military for his grandiose “African projects” and so was Patrice Lumumba. Guinea in fact opted out of the CFA Zone, and West African Monetary Zone was dead with independence in our region.
I do not hate technology transfer. I am not a technical person either. But technology has two phases. There is a technical hardware and human software. Quite often many rush in because of the hardware. That is not sustainable development. A country is considered under developed if the natural resources and technical competence of its people can no longer support itself. Who gains from this project, who pays the loans, under what terms, how many expatriates, ecological impacts, water cultivation options, effect on flora and fauna, flooding of marshlands with resultant increase in malaria disease; trypanosomiasis, and at what concessions are far more important issues to address than merely jumping hurray.
I am in for integration and development but I have concerns. In the west, whenever there is going to be a project there are notices of Proposed Land Use Actions for citizens to ask questions and raise concerns. Unfortunately, one of the reasons of project failures is the non-integration of stakeholders and end users. We tend to prescribe as if we knew what everyone wants. Take this contribution as part of my contribution to the cause and hope our policy planners are listening. I am not in anyway important, but I am all too weary of regional projects all of which unfortunately have become white elephants and source of regional instability in Africa.
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Edited by - kondorong on 02 Aug 2006 21:35:42 |
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