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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 06:12:53
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Terangba & dBaldeh. Thanks for your interesting comments and responses to my questions.
dBaldeh I would like your reaction and opinion on my post noted above? PLEASE REFER AND CONSIDER "Posted - 30 Oct 2012 : 05:51:58 "; especially for GMC leader and participation of GMC in the democratic political process before I comment and forward my opinions on all your new comments as we continue the flow and progressing nicely on this topic 
1. REFERENCES DIRECTLY REFER TO WHAT DO YOU MEAN ON YOUR COMMENT FOR FOLLOWING QUOTE;
quote:
"I also believe that GMC (not a supporter) has fresh ideas on how to confront the dictatorship in Gambia. They are also a young political party that should be given the same opportunity that has been accorded to PDOIS, UPD and NRP..."
2. NOW WITH YOUR COURTESY AS EDITOR OF GAINAKO NEWS
- MY QUESTIONS ARE TRYING TO GET YOU REVEAL "FRESH IDEAS"? HOW CAN THIS APPEAL FROM GMC FOR "CONSENSUS BUILDING" BE ACHIEVED
- IS IT FEASIBLE AND A PRAGMATIC POSITION
- ARE THE APPROACHES DIFFERENT IN "CONSENSUS BUILDING" AND "CONVENTION" THAT IS AND HAS BEEN ADVOCATED BY P.D.O.I.S/HALIFA SALLAH/SIDIA JATTA OVER YEARS TO-DATE
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Edited by - kobo on 01 Nov 2012 08:41:32 |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2012 : 09:16:28
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"Kobo, I have not responded to Sankalanka because I think he agreed with most of my points."
Dbaldeh, what I have tried to do with most of the points you raised is to respond to those where there is a significant difference both in content and substance.
The points that you raised and I noted merely acknowledges that I read them but do not necessarily want to offer an opinion. More so, when I found some of your remarks as subjective, confusing the role and functions of a political leadership and party to one that you envisaged.
You stated that "...leadership is part of taking risk. Sometimes it takes bravery and high degree of risk to achieve what leaders want." How can you correlate this statement to the role and functions of a political party and its leadership?
To make it even murkier you stated that, "history has shown that political leaders have taken to the streets and led citizens against dictators." What are you talking about? Again, how can you correlate this statement to the role and functions of a political party and its leadership?
Then you went on say, building on a wrong premise "some paid the ultimate price but that is what comes with taking up leadership roles. To avoid this situation is to want to assume the mantle of leadership without willingness to lay down your life on the line." What are you talking about? Again, how can you correlate this statement to the role and functions of a political party and its leadership?
These are the sorts of remarks that I found in the latter part of your points that I simply acknowledged as noted. You cannot imposed your desires on political parties and their leadership to do for you what you are not willing or capable to do for yourself.
I tried to point out to you that the role and functions of a political party are different from the role that an individual can play to challenge the injustices and excesses of a government.
Political militancy and political advocacy are more effective when organized through the active participation of citizens in a democratic process.
"The only disagreement I have with him which explain why the opposition are in the state there are in is the the fact that he does not agree that the situation in Banjul is admormal."
Dbaldeh, you are one who stated that "the political situation in the Gambia is abnormal and therefore using normal constitutional means of achieving change at this point is futile."
If using normal constitutional means of achieving change at this point is futile, when then is the recourse? What are you saying?
I only made an observation that in a normal political dispensation, the dynamics of change are interrogated through a constitutional process that makes change inevitable and necessary, frequent and desirable.
"Essentially what he is saying is totally contradictory to what they are fighting for - level playing field, democracy and contitutional rule. How can you disagree with the situation in Banjul and yet you deny it is admormal in Banjul?"
Wow. You have made me own up to your own statements and then used that as the basis to make your own arguments.
You are essentially putting words in my mouth. And now you turned around and said I agreed with most of the points you have raised.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 06:52:10
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Sankalanka! THANKS CLARIFYING YOUR POSITION ON ALL YOUR "POINTS NOTED" FROM DBALDEH'S COMMENTS AND OPINIONS. AN ADDED VALUE TO IT, RELEVANT, WISE WORDS AND PHRASE WITH COURTESY OF BREADMAN QUOTING;
quote:
"It is the mark of intelligence to entertain an idea without accepting it!"
dBaldeh amongst other of elite dissidents/activists/militant are all directly culpable in any setback for opposition front, must assume responsibility for the lack of unity or mobilising a united front and helping dictatorship continue in Gambia
WHERE ARE THE "FRESH IDEAS ON HOW TO CONFRONT DICTATORSHIP IN GAMBIA" FROM GMC AND HOW TO ACHIEVE "CONSENSUS BUILDING" STRATEGY RECENTLY DEMANDED BY GMC BUT SENSITISED ON, ADVOCATED FOR AND BEING THE CORNERSTONE P.D.O.I.S/N.A.D.D STRATEGY THROUGH A NATIONAL "CONVENTION" AND/OR NATIONAL "CONGRESS"
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Edited by - kobo on 02 Nov 2012 08:47:40 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 09:38:56
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quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
In my opinion these strategies could be formulated by doing the following: On the ground, PDOIS can consolidate its presence in every village and community, by identifying the people who live in these communities and share the party's mission and vision, and form them into grassroots organizations that will continue the work of the party in those communities.
ON THAT NOTE WITH FOROYAA BURNING ISSUES NEWS;
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 09:46:07
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[quote][i]Originally posted by sankalanka
[br
These are the sorts of remarks that I found in the latter part of your points that I simply acknowledged as noted. You cannot imposed your desires on political parties and their leadership to do for you what you are not willing or capable to do for yourself.
I tried to point out to you that the role and functions of a political party are different from the role that an individual can play to challenge the injustices and excesses of a government.
Political militancy and political advocacy are more effective when organized through the active participation of citizens in a democratic process.
Sankalanka, wow! you stated your opinion and I stated mine and you think am imposing my idea or what I want on the opposition?. I hope you recognize that I have the same privilege as you to share my opinion not only as an independent citizen of the Gambia but as an activist who has been fighting alongside everybody..
I do not for a minute and I believe many Gambians don't either subscribe to your definition of the role of political parties. Political parties should not be ran like religious cults where you sit back in corners and direct militants on what to do. You cannot effectively lead from behind.
It is political leaders who presents themselves as wanting to lead the nation, form their parties, author policies and manifestos and aspire to motivate the people to follow them and their vision. How then can you sit back and say that when the citizens rise up then you will give it direction... That's not real leadership that is opportunistic leadership.
In a society where leaders are treated as demi Gods because they enjoy every privilege while the rest of the people continue to eat dirt and live in abject poverty how could any opposition group succeed by leading from behind?
My contention is that when you present yourself as the alternative to take up the leadership of the nation with all its privileges, then you better risk being in front of the line or you will continue to scratch your head wondering why people are not coming to you despite your vision.
Correct me if am wrong... political parties presents themselves as viable alternative to replace the government in power, pledge to protect the people and defend their basic human rights and freedoms. If a party is genuine and competent, why should they wait until they are voted into power before standing up against injustices metted not only against the general citizenry but the political parties and leadership themselves?
Why should any citizen trust a party to follow through in defending citizens when students were massacred in broad day light and what we hear from the political leaders is to wait for the coronary report?
Why would any citizenry vote for a political party that watched 9 of its citizens executed without due process of the law and sat back without speaking to the nation but rather issue lengthy mocky press releases that state no position one way or another?
Why would any citizenry vote for a political leadership that could not put their differences aside to the interest of the country?
Why would the Gambian people vote the opposition in when they have not shown the bones to defend the citizens from continuous human rights violations and disgrace from bully government?
Why should any citizen vote for a party that keep doing the same thing, using same failed policies and expect different results?
Sankalanka, Gambian opposition parties regardless of which party exist or comes along, must level up with the people if they expect to be voted into office...
If they cannot defend their rights to hold political rallies and or distribute materials then am afraid they are in the wrong business...
Now I notice you mentioned you are waiting for my leadership... I have not presented myself to lead any political party or group... but if I were to, again I will be putting my life on the line... I may never live to witness what I would be fighting for, but will rest in peace knowing I stood up and defended my fellow citizens...
I hope am clear...
And Kobo, I take no responsibility in dividing the opposition... what I have tried to do like you is to present alternative suggestions for them to unite. You may or may not agree with my suggestions but it was my opinion as a stakeholder of our country... You can point fingers all you want away from the culprits of failed leadership and it wouldn't make a difference. These people are not capable of coming together period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 13:03:10
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[quote]Originally posted by dbaldeh
Why would any citizenry vote for a political party that watched 9 of its citizens executed without due process of the law and sat back without speaking to the nation but rather issue lengthy mocky press releases that state no position one way or another?
TOTALLY DECEITFUL AND DISINGENUOUS! P.D.O.I.S OPENLY CONDEMNED AND CHALLENGED THE PRESIDENT WITH HIS ENTIRE GOVERNMENT; TO THE EXTEND OF DECLARING THE PRESIDENT TO STEP DOWN AND LACKING CREDIBILITY TO RULE. I DON'T KNOW WHICH OTHER POLITICAL PARTY AND/OR OPPOSITION POLITICAL LEADER IN THE COUNTRY CHAMPIONED THAT CAUSE AMONGST OTHERS BETTER THAN THEM
Why would the Gambian people vote the opposition in when they have not shown the bones to defend the citizens from continuous human rights violations and disgrace from bully government?
ALSO TOTALLY DECEITFUL AND DISINGENUOUS! P.D.O.I.S AND ITS LEADERS, PUT THEIR LIFE ON LINE, ARE ON FRONT-LINE, VOCAL ON ANY NATIONAL ISSUE, FACED ARRESTS, DETENTION AND JAIL DEFENDING CITIZENS RIGHTS
And Kobo, I take no responsibility in dividing the opposition... what I have tried to do like you is to present alternative suggestions for them to unite. You may or may not agree with my suggestions but it was my opinion as a stakeholder of our country... You can point fingers all you want away from the culprits of failed leadership and it wouldn't make a difference. These people are not capable of coming together period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE ELITE FACTION I OBSERVED AND WITNESSED YOU BELONG 2011 WERE CAMPAIGNING ON DIVISIVE POLICIES, PARTISAN POLITICS, BULLYING TACTICS, ALIENATING TACTICS, DISENFRANCHISING OTHERS AND VICTIMISATION (ESPECIALLY CERTAIN CITIZENS ENFRANCHISE IN OPPOSITION FRONT). YOU ULTIMATELY ARBITRARILY ENDORSED UDP-UK "PARTY-LED" (WITHIN YOUR RIGHT OF CHOICE) THAT DOESN'T PROMOTE A COMMON GROUND (UNDER ONE UMBRELLA) FOR NATIONAL "UNITY" OR AN ALL INCLUSIVE UNITED NATIONAL FRONT (ALTERNATIVELY CONSIDERED A GRAND COALITION)! I DISAGREE FOR I CLEARLY KNEW YOUR DISPOSITION AND ON-GOING SMEAR CAMPAIGN; ESPECIALLY AGAINST P.D.O.I.S AND ITS LEADERS |
Edited by - kobo on 02 Nov 2012 21:42:41 |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 17:35:33
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[quote][i]Originally posted by sankalanka
[br
These are the sorts of remarks that I found in the latter part of your points that I simply acknowledged as noted. You cannot imposed your desires on political parties and their leadership to do for you what you are not willing or capable to do for yourself.
I tried to point out to you that the role and functions of a political party are different from the role that an individual can play to challenge the injustices and excesses of a government.
Political militancy and political advocacy are more effective when organized through the active participation of citizens in a democratic process.
"Sankalanka, wow! you stated your opinion and I stated mine and you think am imposing my idea or what I want on the opposition?. I hope you recognize that I have the same privilege as you to share my opinion not only as an independent citizen of the Gambia but as an activist who has been fighting alongside everybody."
Dbaldeh, you absolutely have the rights to your opinion and I have no qualms about that. That is the kind of democratic environment we want to create so that people can express themselves freely without let or hindrance.
However, review your statements below and judge for yourself whether you are trying to impose your desires on others or not:
1. "So if leaders are not prepared to put their lives on the line, then it is time they step aside and protect themselves."
There is a problem with this statement. Your idea of leader and leadership is misconstrued. These people are not your leaders, they are the leaders of political parties that they founded. Just like you as a citizen have the same right to form your own political party. So it is a misnomer to use leader and leadership in the context that you are using it.
Just like how you have cited Martin Luther King and Mandela, who have accepted the challenges and responsibilities of their civic obligations, and rise to the occasion to form movements and in the case of Mandela was a leader and co-founder of Umkhontu We Sizwe (the spear of the nation) the armed wing of the ANC, these political leaders commit themselves to a democratic struggle to change the governments we have for governments that are more attuned to the needs and aspirations of the people.
They have their political agenda and programs that they sell to the people. They also open their doors for others to join them, support them and help them in every way possible to achieve their goal of democratically changing the government. They also develop tactics and strategies of reaching out to a lot of people to broaden their base of support. This is the reality of our politics.
2. "...when you as a leader start seeing your followers running away,(why should you care if you are not a member of that political group )then it time for you to realize that probably your leadership style or method is not acceptable."
You have the right to be critical of the party, but look at the last two words in that statement: NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Review that statement again and judge for yourself whether you are imposing your desires on others or not.
"I do not for a minute and I believe many Gambians don't either subscribe to your definition of the role of political parties."
What is your definition of the role of political parties?
"Political parties should not be ran like religious cults where you sit back in corners and direct militants on what to do. You cannot effectively lead from behind."
Do we have political parties that are run like religious cults? Can you name such a party? Again you have this misconstrued idea of leadership, and leaders leading from behind whatever that means.
"It is political leaders who presents themselves as wanting to lead the nation, form their parties, author policies and manifestos and aspire to motivate the people to follow them and their vision."
Correct. You are now using political leader and leadership in its proper context. This is what political leaders do.
"How then can you sit back and say that when the citizens rise up then you will give it direction... That's not real leadership that is opportunistic leadership."
So that it will not be destructive. Usually an uprising can be spontaneous and disorganize, and also lacking any direction.
A responsible leadership, be it a political leadership or other civil organizations leadership, can provide the necessary guidance to steer such an uprising to a productive and fruitful resolution. You call it opportunistic leadership, and I would call it a responsible leadership.
You
In a society where leaders are treated as demi Gods because they enjoy every privilege while the rest of the people continue to eat dirt and live in abject poverty how could any opposition group succeed by leading from behind?
My contention is that when you present yourself as the alternative to take up the leadership of the nation with all its privileges, then you better risk being in front of the line or you will continue to scratch your head wondering why people are not coming to you despite your vision.
Correct me if am wrong... political parties presents themselves as viable alternative to replace the government in power, pledge to protect the people and defend their basic human rights and freedoms. If a party is genuine and competent, why should they wait until they are voted into power before standing up against injustices metted not only against the general citizenry but the political parties and leadership themselves?
Why should any citizen trust a party to follow through in defending citizens when students were massacred in broad day light and what we hear from the political leaders is to wait for the coronary report?
Why would any citizenry vote for a political party that watched 9 of its citizens executed without due process of the law and sat back without speaking to the nation but rather issue lengthy mocky press releases that state no position one way or another?
Why would any citizenry vote for a political leadership that could not put their differences aside to the interest of the country?
Why would the Gambian people vote the opposition in when they have not shown the bones to defend the citizens from continuous human rights violations and disgrace from bully government?
Why should any citizen vote for a party that keep doing the same thing, using same failed policies and expect different results?
Sankalanka, Gambian opposition parties regardless of which party exist or comes along, must level up with the people if they expect to be voted into office...
If they cannot defend their rights to hold political rallies and or distribute materials then am afraid they are in the wrong business...
Now I notice you mentioned you are waiting for my leadership... I have not presented myself to lead any political party or group... but if I were to, again I will be putting my life on the line... I may never live to witness what I would be fighting for, but will rest in peace knowing I stood up and defended my fellow citizens...
I hope am clear...
And Kobo, I take no responsibility in dividing the opposition... what I have tried to do like you is to present alternative suggestions for them to unite. You may or may not agree with my suggestions but it was my opinion as a stakeholder of our country... You can point fingers all you want away from the culprits of failed leadership and it wouldn't make a difference. These people are not capable of coming together period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 21:41:27
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RELATED BANTABA TOPIC;
THIS TOPIC IS ALL ABOUT FOCUSING ON THE ISSUES, PARTY MANIFESTO, PARTY PROGRAMS, POLICIES, STRATEGIES AND TACTICS OF P.D.O.I.S AS PER THESE POINTS QUOTED BELOW;
[quote]Originally posted by sankalanka
- Political militancy and political advocacy are more effective when organized through the active participation of citizens in a democratic process.
- ...., these political leaders commit themselves to a democratic struggle to change the governments we have for governments that are more attuned to the needs and aspirations of the people.
- They have their political agenda and programs that they sell to the people. They also open their doors for others to join them, support them and help them in every way possible to achieve their goal of democratically changing the government. They also develop tactics and strategies of reaching out to a lot of people to broaden their base of support. This is the reality of our politics.
- "It is political leaders who presents themselves as wanting to lead the nation, form their parties, author policies and manifestos and aspire to motivate the people to follow them and their vision."
Correct. You are now using political leader and leadership in its proper context. This is what political leaders do.
BUT NONE CAN TACKLE DETRACTORS AND HATERS FROM BEING COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE ON SMEARING CAMPAIGN,RESORTING TO HOSTILE PERSONAL ATTACKS, VILE SLANDERS, CARICATURES, PREJUDICE, DISENFRANCHISING; AMONGST OTHER UNPLEASANT DISPOSITION TO DERAIL TOPIC
P.D.O.I.S IS A VIBRANT PARTY, CANNOT BE GAG AND HAS BEEN MAINTAINING MOMENTUM, CONSISTENT, NOT FLIP FLOPPING ON ITS CLEAR CUT POLICIES, KEEPING US UPDATE ON ISSUES, PARTY PROGRAM, VISION AND STRATEGIES; INCLUDING LATEST ON TOPIC |
Edited by - kobo on 03 Nov 2012 02:38:50 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2012 : 21:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by terangba
Kobo;
Please send me your thoughts about why the opposition cannot unite. If you don’t want to in the public domain please send them to me privately or at julanani@hotmail.com.
I am afraid the constant bickering will end all possibilities for a united Gambia. I just cannot believe in 2012 Gambians are so far behind Senegal when it comes to politics.
For the Gambia.
COMING BACK ON YOUR CHALLENGE AS PROMISE TO SHARE MY THOUGHTS PLEASE REFER RELATED BANTABA TOPIC;
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Edited by - kobo on 02 Nov 2012 21:59:36 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 10:10:15
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quote:
Originally posted by sankalanka
[quote][i]Originally posted by sankalanka
[br
These are the sorts of remarks that I found in the latter part of your points that I simply acknowledged as noted. You cannot imposed your desires on political parties and their leadership to do for you what you are not willing or capable to do for yourself.
I tried to point out to you that the role and functions of a political party are different from the role that an individual can play to challenge the injustices and excesses of a government.
Political militancy and political advocacy are more effective when organized through the active participation of citizens in a democratic process.
"Sankalanka, wow! you stated your opinion and I stated mine and you think am imposing my idea or what I want on the opposition?. I hope you recognize that I have the same privilege as you to share my opinion not only as an independent citizen of the Gambia but as an activist who has been fighting alongside everybody."
Dbaldeh, you absolutely have the rights to your opinion and I have no qualms about that. That is the kind of democratic environment we want to create so that people can express themselves freely without let or hindrance.
However, review your statements below and judge for yourself whether you are trying to impose your desires on others or not:
1. "So if leaders are not prepared to put their lives on the line, then it is time they step aside and protect themselves."
There is a problem with this statement. Your idea of leader and leadership is misconstrued. These people are not your leaders, they are the leaders of political parties that they founded. Just like you as a citizen have the same right to form your own political party. So it is a misnomer to use leader and leadership in the context that you are using it.
Just like how you have cited Martin Luther King and Mandela, who have accepted the challenges and responsibilities of their civic obligations, and rise to the occasion to form movements and in the case of Mandela was a leader and co-founder of Umkhontu We Sizwe (the spear of the nation) the armed wing of the ANC, these political leaders commit themselves to a democratic struggle to change the governments we have for governments that are more attuned to the needs and aspirations of the people.
They have their political agenda and programs that they sell to the people. They also open their doors for others to join them, support them and help them in every way possible to achieve their goal of democratically changing the government. They also develop tactics and strategies of reaching out to a lot of people to broaden their base of support. This is the reality of our politics.
2. "...when you as a leader start seeing your followers running away,(why should you care if you are not a member of that political group )then it time for you to realize that probably your leadership style or method is not acceptable."
You have the right to be critical of the party, but look at the last two words in that statement: NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Review that statement again and judge for yourself whether you are imposing your desires on others or not.
"I do not for a minute and I believe many Gambians don't either subscribe to your definition of the role of political parties."
What is your definition of the role of political parties?
"Political parties should not be ran like religious cults where you sit back in corners and direct militants on what to do. You cannot effectively lead from behind."
Do we have political parties that are run like religious cults? Can you name such a party? Again you have this misconstrued idea of leadership, and leaders leading from behind whatever that means.
"It is political leaders who presents themselves as wanting to lead the nation, form their parties, author policies and manifestos and aspire to motivate the people to follow them and their vision."
Correct. You are now using political leader and leadership in its proper context. This is what political leaders do.
"How then can you sit back and say that when the citizens rise up then you will give it direction... That's not real leadership that is opportunistic leadership."
So that it will not be destructive. Usually an uprising can be spontaneous and disorganize, and also lacking any direction.
A responsible leadership, be it a political leadership or other civil organizations leadership, can provide the necessary guidance to steer such an uprising to a productive and fruitful resolution. You call it opportunistic leadership, and I would call it a responsible leadership.
You
In a society where leaders are treated as demi Gods because they enjoy every privilege while the rest of the people continue to eat dirt and live in abject poverty how could any opposition group succeed by leading from behind?
My contention is that when you present yourself as the alternative to take up the leadership of the nation with all its privileges, then you better risk being in front of the line or you will continue to scratch your head wondering why people are not coming to you despite your vision.
Correct me if am wrong... political parties presents themselves as viable alternative to replace the government in power, pledge to protect the people and defend their basic human rights and freedoms. If a party is genuine and competent, why should they wait until they are voted into power before standing up against injustices metted not only against the general citizenry but the political parties and leadership themselves?
Why should any citizen trust a party to follow through in defending citizens when students were massacred in broad day light and what we hear from the political leaders is to wait for the coronary report?
Why would any citizenry vote for a political party that watched 9 of its citizens executed without due process of the law and sat back without speaking to the nation but rather issue lengthy mocky press releases that state no position one way or another?
Why would any citizenry vote for a political leadership that could not put their differences aside to the interest of the country?
Why would the Gambian people vote the opposition in when they have not shown the bones to defend the citizens from continuous human rights violations and disgrace from bully government?
Why should any citizen vote for a party that keep doing the same thing, using same failed policies and expect different results?
Sankalanka, Gambian opposition parties regardless of which party exist or comes along, must level up with the people if they expect to be voted into office...
If they cannot defend their rights to hold political rallies and or distribute materials then am afraid they are in the wrong business...
Now I notice you mentioned you are waiting for my leadership... I have not presented myself to lead any political party or group... but if I were to, again I will be putting my life on the line... I may never live to witness what I would be fighting for, but will rest in peace knowing I stood up and defended my fellow citizens...
I hope am clear...
And Kobo, I take no responsibility in dividing the opposition... what I have tried to do like you is to present alternative suggestions for them to unite. You may or may not agree with my suggestions but it was my opinion as a stakeholder of our country... You can point fingers all you want away from the culprits of failed leadership and it wouldn't make a difference. These people are not capable of coming together period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics
Sankalanka, so now we are engaged in academic exercise right? You are cherry picking words out of a whole sentence and giving them different meanings. I am not in the business of academic exercise or intellectual rhetorics.
If you don't know what it means to lead from behind then am afraid I can't help you. So when I say something is not acceptable to the Gambian people you think am imposing my ideas or will... What more message do the opposition want from the Gambian people both on the ground and Diaspora? The opposition have been rejected by voters over and over again, Diaspora support has dissipated and yet you are not convince you got the message... Tough luck men..
You and I will never agree on the role of political parties I guess. If you think that what is happening in the Gambia politically is not destructive to the democratic foundations of our nation, then am sorry you are the one who is miscontrued on the realities of the political environment in the Gambia. Sometimes things need to be destructive in other for it to be fixed...am sure you don't believe that either...
Sankalanka, we need practical leadership and not philosophical leaders. Leaders who are willing to walk the streets with the people if need be. Not leaders who advocate for change leadership in the state yet they continue to occupy the same positions in their own parties for decades... Political success will never come to such leaders.
Am out seeking for more practical leaders... Enough of the intellectual elitism. Now show your party how to win not only votes but heards and minds of the Gambian electorate... Since that is their role, they are yet to succeed in that...
Catch you on the next flight...
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 10:31:37
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
RELATED BANTABA TOPIC;
THIS TOPIC IS ALL ABOUT FOCUSING ON THE ISSUES, PARTY MANIFESTO, PARTY PROGRAMS, POLICIES, STRATEGIES AND TACTICS OF P.D.O.I.S AS PER THESE POINTS QUOTED BELOW;
[quote]Originally posted by sankalanka
- Political militancy and political advocacy are more effective when organized through the active participation of citizens in a democratic process.
- ...., these political leaders commit themselves to a democratic struggle to change the governments we have for governments that are more attuned to the needs and aspirations of the people.
- They have their political agenda and programs that they sell to the people. They also open their doors for others to join them, support them and help them in every way possible to achieve their goal of democratically changing the government. They also develop tactics and strategies of reaching out to a lot of people to broaden their base of support. This is the reality of our politics.
- "It is political leaders who presents themselves as wanting to lead the nation, form their parties, author policies and manifestos and aspire to motivate the people to follow them and their vision."
Correct. You are now using political leader and leadership in its proper context. This is what political leaders do.
BUT NONE CAN TACKLE DETRACTORS AND HATERS FROM BEING COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE ON SMEARING CAMPAIGN,RESORTING TO HOSTILE PERSONAL ATTACKS, VILE SLANDERS, CARICATURES, PREJUDICE, DISENFRANCHISING; AMONGST OTHER UNPLEASANT DISPOSITION TO DERAIL TOPIC
P.D.O.I.S IS A VIBRANT PARTY, CANNOT BE GAG AND HAS BEEN MAINTAINING MOMENTUM, CONSISTENT, NOT FLIP FLOPPING ON ITS CLEAR CUT POLICIES, KEEPING US UPDATE ON ISSUES, PARTY PROGRAM, VISION AND STRATEGIES; INCLUDING LATEST ON TOPIC
Kobo, I supported a party led coalition because I believe it was the best alternative. You supported an experimental exercise that was more ideological than practical. An exercise for the history books and nothing else...
Kobo, when I was here on Banta fully supporting the Halifas and PDOIS and NADD for all these years I never heard you call be detractor or hater. You want to go back to the records?????
It was only when I came out and criticised PDOIS for sticking to the same agenda without tangible results that you started calling me names or siding with one side or another..
I was here fighting tooth and nail with SS Daffeh and many others defending the integrity of Halifa and NADD and yet I never heard any criticism of my position from your class.
Kobo, I am not a rubber stamping citizen and I don't owe loyalty to anyone or political party. I am an independent citizen and reserves the right to support one side or another depending on their position and the circumstances. I don't engage in blind loyalty or party militancy without questioning the policies of my leadership.
I will tell you a little story... back in my high school days I used to hang around the PDOIS folks during holidays. For years I read every issue that was written by foroyaa. I learned a lot from them and am grateful for that. But even during those early days I questioned some of their policies and tactics. What is happening now is exactly what I foresaw. You have to level up with the people you pledge to represent else you risk being that - elitist.
So don't give me that party loyalty stuff. I don't want to continue to support failed policies and I will never shy away from pointing out my opinion. And I won't shut up either so let you all lot get use to that... Regards |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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sankalanka
270 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 14:10:27
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"Kobo, I supported a party led coalition because I believe it was the best alternative. You supported an experimental exercise that was more ideological than practical. An exercise for the history books and nothing else..."
Dbaldeh, I will only respond to the above statement because of its conceptual value.
This will be a lesson in contrast. A lesson between a party led coalition effort and a new idea that supports a non-party led coalition effort, which to you is an experimental exercise more ideological than practical.
And I would hasten to add that the greatest democracy on the face of this earth was founded on an idea, and also was an experiment.
A great political thinker has observed, that the dynamics of society, the combination of the movements of all the forces within the society, which compel our historical narrative are the forces which propels society forward or the forces which move society backwards.
In essence there are two competing forces within any society. The forces that propel society forward or the forces which move society backwards. And it is a process; and in every stage of this process, the forces that move society backwards are disintegrating and dying, and the forces that propel society forward are coming to be and developing.
The forces that are disintegrating and dying have their own ideas of how to maintain the status quo, and the forces that are coming to be and developing also have their own ideas of how to get rid of the status quo and build a new one.
The party led concept is a disintegrating and dying force that wants to maintain the status quo, and the non-party led coalition concept is the force that is coming to be and developing that will get rid of the status quo and build a new one.
If people are interested in building a coalition of political parties, the idea of a non-party led coalition effort offers the best opportunity of building a broad representation of all the political groups and interests.
In South Africa, the convention for a democratic South Africa, CODESA, brought all the opposing political forces together and create a new South Africa. Nelson Mandela served only one term in office and walked out of the political stage.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 15:26:20
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[quote]Originally posted by dbaldeh
Kobo, I supported a party led coalition because I believe it was the best alternative. You supported an experimental exercise that was more ideological than practical. An exercise for the history books and nothing else...
- Of cardinal significance you, me and everyone has fundamental basic human rights, the right to vote and franchise of every citizen is guaranteed.
- When you believed and supported a party-led coalition you were in your rights to believed that "it was best alternative". However take note to review your contradictory disparaging personal remarks/approach or acrimony to others that follow exercise of your rights and franchise; infringing on other citizen's rights, disenfranchising and alienating others in our political debates and discourse. Such kind of posture(s) are considered contemptuous, hostile criticisms, impulsive and are not constructive criticism(s); coming from your kind of elite calibre using such tactics on divisive partisan politics to always denounce P.D.O.I.S and its leaders
- Against all odds and when all attempts failed on "self-perpetuation rule" , bullied, denounced, demonized, alienated, gagged from opponents P.D.O.I.S/N.A.D.D advocated for an alternative "UNITED NATIONAL FRONT", improving on certain limitations of N.A.D.D; which was adopted by a section of citizens (enfranchised), sensitized, dealt with all democratic and constitutional hurdles and PRACTICALLY followed it through to full fruition in 2011 General Elections. So your remarks that I amongst others ("supported an experimental exercise that was more ideological than practical. An exercise for the history books and nothing else...") is untenable, deceptive and disingenuous
- After an "historic elections" you are counted as a vocal dynamic militant/activist/sound elite and advised to be more productive by coming out with better constructive criticisms and/or consider merits/demerits of alternative policies/strategies/tactics, post-election reviews and way forward better than your present disposition and indefatigable efforts, to disorientate, smear campaign and selling cheap an agenda on table? TRYING TO ELIMINATE, CONTINUOUSLY DAMAGING, CONDEMNING AND DAMMING EVERYTHING HEARD FROM P.D.O.I.S AND ITS LEADERS TO WITHER THEIR POLITICAL AUTHORITY IS UNFAIR AND A FUTILE EXERCISE. ITS BETTER TO CONSIDER WHAT THEY BROUGHT, ANY BETTER ALTERNATIVE POLICIES, STRATEGY AND TACTICS ON TABLE
Kobo, when I was here on Banta fully supporting the Halifas and PDOIS and NADD for all these years I never heard you call be detractor or hater. You want to go back to the records?????
DETRACTORS AND HATERS ARE NOT FOR YOU BUT FOR ANYONE WITHOUT CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISMS BUT DERAILING MAIN TOPICAL ISSUES AND MEDDLES IN PERSONAL ATTACKS, SMEAR AND MALICIOUSLY SLANDER
It was only when I came out and criticised PDOIS for sticking to the same agenda without tangible results that you started calling me names or siding with one side or another..
Some of words used are generalized but am not calling you names but acknowledged understanding your disposition
I was here fighting tooth and nail with SS Daffeh and many others defending the integrity of Halifa and NADD and yet I never heard any criticism of my position from your class.
We shared same position/posture/front together at that time but now your language is different and I tried to engage you where I observe and have certain reservations in your opinions
Kobo, I am not a rubber stamping citizen and I don't owe loyalty to anyone or political party. I am an independent citizen and reserves the right to support one side or another depending on their position and the circumstances. I don't engage in blind loyalty or party militancy without questioning the policies of my leadership.
YOU ARE WITHIN YOUR OWN RIGHTS AND COVERED ALREADY
I will tell you a little story... back in my high school days I used to hang around the PDOIS folks during holidays. For years I read every issue that was written by foroyaa. I learned a lot from them and am grateful for that. But even during those early days I questioned some of their policies and tactics. What is happening now is exactly what I foresaw. You have to level up with the people you pledge to represent else you risk being that - elitist.
IT IS GOOD TO FOCUS ON THE NATIONAL ISSUES, QUESTION THEIR POLICIES/STRATEGIES/TACTICS, ENGAGE IN DEBATES/DISCOURSE BUT AVOID TENDENCY OF PERSONALIZE ISSUES, BIASED PERSONAL OPINIONS, PREJUDICES AND DISINGENUOUS
So don't give me that party loyalty stuff. I don't want to continue to support failed policies and I will never shy away from pointing out my opinion. And I won't shut up either so let you all lot get use to that...
YOU, ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES AND DISSIDENTS ON OPPOSITION FRONT HAVE NATIONAL DUTY TO WORK TOGETHER FOR A COMMON GOAL AND LIBERATE NATION FROM TYRANNY! UNDERMINING OF EFFORTS IS UN-PROGRESSIVE AND COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE! YOU ALSO HAVE A ROLE IN MAKING OPPOSITION FAILING BUT "FAILED POLICIES" IS GENERIC AND TOO VAGUE. BE SPECIFIC OR POINT OUT ANY POLICY AND WHY YOU ARE CRITICAL ON IT
I REST MY CASE WITH YOU!
Regards |
Edited by - kobo on 03 Nov 2012 16:44:29 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 18:14:44
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Demba
Discussing with Kobo is like talking to a concrete wall, he neither listen nor attempt to understand any other perspective. In short, he is no different to the guys he is defending tooth and nail.
I entirely agree with your analysis of the opposition parties. None of them did what we expected, UDP, PDOIS, NRP. They were all writing and talking to the press with half-hearted overtures.
I swear to God, I called Halifa asking him what unanimous response the opposition should offer to the bereaved families and end this madness.
His answer was long-winded and the usual lecturing...
Ousainou of UDP went to PDOIS office for consultation on a possible G6 action, Sedia met him on couple of occasion, but Halifa wouldn't change his position of not taking the direct route. Halifa's response to me was:
"You people abroad keep thinking we are not doing anything. We have done a lot. We are not quiet about the events." He went further to say, "Gambians don't give respect to people who want to go on the streets and make noise." He said, "Gambians don't look at things that way."
I asked him what will be their reaction then? He said, in the coming days, we will hear about it. And he further asked me to talk to people in Diaspora and get them in-touch with him.
I was flabbergasted. He even said, mass rally is not an option. I asked him why? He said, because they want a rally that will bring out 10,000 people or more not few hundred. He said, external pressure can create the Zimbabwe option, by which time, my patients ran out. Which means, a Prime Minister position..
Whilst Ousainou couldn't bring his guys to agree on a Unilateral mass rally, because Jammeh might coin the defense and pretext that, One party is against me and a result of which may lead to bloodbath. Hence, Demba, our situation is an absolute dead end.
Whilst Halifa is talking to some Gambians in Dakar trying to reinvent himself, Jammeh is comfortably waiting. Hence, a different option is the likely saving grace.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2012 : 02:48:52
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[quote]Originally posted by Santanfara
Demba
Discussing with Kobo is like talking to a concrete wall, he neither listen nor attempt to understand any other perspective. In short, he is no different to the guys he is defending tooth and nail.
- We had a good exchange of dissenting opinions; considering issues/policies/strategies/tactics and shared problems of opposition front, seeking common understanding, solutions, progress and way forward (amongst others); for you to irrationally intervene with such comments appear to be unfair, biased and unreasonable
- I have analysed, fully understand and digested properly before freely expressing my opinions but our progress is hindered by partisan antagonism; bickering, certain hostile acts and uncivil attitudes (especially ludicrous caricatures, direct personal attacks, dirty smearing campaign and vile slanders)
- No qualms on "ANY OTHER PERSPECTIVE" as dBaldeh mentioned "fresh ideas" of G.M.C but when challenged on them; nothing came out
I entirely agree with your analysis of the opposition parties. None of them did what we expected, UDP, PDOIS, NRP. They were all writing and talking to the press with half-hearted overtures.
- GIVE US A CLUE, IDEA OR REVEAL "WHAT WAS EXPECTED" FROM THEM TO DO? HOPE YOU WILL NOT BE TALKING ABOUT OR SUGGESTING UDP STRATEGY/AGENDA; ULTIMATELY AT 11TH HOUR RALLYING BEHIND UDP LEADER ON "PARTY-LED ALLIANCE" AS SOLUTION TO IMPASSE; CONSTITUTING NATIONAL UNITY OF ALL OPPOSITION PARTIES FOR "UNITED NATIONAL FRONT" UNDER ONE BANNER
I swear to God, I called Halifa asking him what unanimous response the opposition should offer to the bereaved families and end this madness.
His answer was long-winded and the usual lecturing...
- Halifa has always maintained N.A.D.D and UNITED NATIONAL FRONT (UNDER ONE UMBRELLA) as solution and your allegations and blame game in reference to private conversations are irrelevant, unverifiable, unreliable and/or cannot be substantiated
Ousainou of UDP went to PDOIS office for consultation on a possible G6 action, Sedia met him on couple of occasion, but Halifa wouldn't change his position of not taking the direct route. Halifa's response to me was:
- Why didn't UDP foresee the BIGGER PICTURE (than focusing on UDP leader's Presidential bid at all costs) until post-election to compromise on G6 pact backing opposition general election petitions only? Elections and IEC flaws were tested and all weaknesses already exposed by P.D.O.I.S./N.A.D.D Wuli- East bye elections (without any participation, solidarity and support from other opposition parties), several months before General Elections. It was too late to risks any rebellious action as opposition front was not properly organised and parties/leaders were not united; so its good to be safe than sorry! However can you share with us any other intended or planned "possible G6 action" at that time? What were they to do, how to go about it, purpose (i.e. what to achieve) and how effective it will be
I DREW A LINE HERE BECAUSE ANYTHING BELOW THIS LINE ARE IRRELEVANT ALLEGATIONS AND BLAME GAME BASED ON UNVERIFIABLE PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS AND INTANGIBLE ARGUMENTS
BEST ADVICE IS GOING BACK TO DRAWING BOARD AND KEEP OUR HOUSE AT OPPOSITION FRONT IN ORDER FOR ALL TO UNITE UNDER ONE UMBRELLA; FACE DICTATORSHIP AND LIBERATE COUNTRY? WE NEED TO HARMONISE, STOP UNDERMINING OF EFFORTS OF EACH OTHER, VICIOUS CYCLE OF BAD BLOOD, HATRED, BICKERING OR WRANGLING, RECRIMINATIONS AND GRAB EVERY OPPORTUNITY, 1%, 2%, 3% ETC OF REPRESENTATION FROM EVERY GROUP OF POLITICAL PARTY (BIG OR SMALL), INCLUDING CIVIL SOCIETIES, ACTIVISTS AND MILITANTS TO COMPLIMENT OR COMPLETE OUR WHOLESOME OF OPPOSITION/DISSIDENT AGAINST A REGIME OF DICTATORSHIP, STATE TERROR, PLANTATION, RAMPANT CORRUPTION AND SQUANDERING OF STATE RESOURCES
"WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" FOR "BENNO SIGIL GAMBIA" SO MEET ME AT RELATED BANTABA TOPIC;
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Edited by - kobo on 05 Nov 2012 00:32:39 |
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