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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 23:24:00
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So are you saying there is sufficient similarities between the languages that it wouldnt matter which one was chosen?
You are absolutely right..I have next to no knowledge of the languages, but as a teacher it is an area that really interests me.
When I saw basic Mandika and woolf words written down what struck me was that there didnt appear to be a commmon root...they were very different....unlike say italian, spanish and french....... |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2006 : 23:59:42
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There is no similarities between the languages. There is of course between dialects. The problem is most people do not speak the languages in their original form and kept borrowing form others. This is very so in the towns.
There are 7 dialects of the Fulani in the Gambia. Whilst they are similar they are different even in life style. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 00:01:52
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| Right now Mandinka is taught as a subject and you can earn a degree in the language. It is being done in Egypt. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 00:03:00
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For such a small country you have a very complex situation!
How do you think the language for education should be chosen? |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 00:05:36
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A degree in Mandinka would be a lifes work for me...so far I have mastered hello, how are you, whats your name! |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 00:25:55
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| We just have to use English and ofcourse encourage the local languages. There is only one authority of Mandinka in the Gambia. It is titled the Mandinka English Dictionary commisioned some 40 years ago and one of the authors was one Mr jammeh from Illiasa in Baddibu. You will be amzed how little you know of Mandinka. Some of the words are hardly spoken in everyday conversations. I think a copy should be at the Peace Corps Oficce. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 01:40:54
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
I think this could be an interesting experiment. Perhaps starting in one or two high schools and then if successful replicated through the country.
Care would have to be taken that the 'minority tribes' didnt feel alienated from the education system. So IF woolf and Mandinka were chosen as the languages to teach through Jola, Fula etc children would have to be carefully monitored to make sure they did make expected progress becuase they would clearly be at a disadvantage.
I still worry that this system might create one tribe feeling superior to another as their language becomes the chosen language.
If it was simple and Gambia had one main language, of course the children should be taught in that and not english..... I still wonder if English is the best choice because of the diversity......it is a leveller and a unifying force.......
Anyway, back to the original point......it could be interesting to try and see what happens......
Gambev, please don't piss me off, i have never met a Gambian who didn't speak Wolof, never!! i'm not wolof, but i recognize that it would be beneficial for us to have a common african language taught in school. how will anyone be at a disadvantage. are you saying it would be fairer that everybody should be at a disadvantage with english. please, stop. anyways, my Nigerian friends inform me that in their states, they do teach in their own languages in some subjects. we could implement that. i think something we need to solve is making more Gambian teachers. cause Gambian teachers, who already speak wolof, can easily learn to write and teach in wolof. not all teachers have to stop teaching to go learn everything. some of you will say it would cost a lot of money to educate teachers to teach in wolof. the government has the money, if they have the money to spend on random stuff and foreigners. before they do stupid things like that, they could invest in the future of their country. Konderong, i still don't see how it would be DANGEROUS. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 01:47:23
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The climate right now is so tribe sensitive that we are better off leaving it as it is. I am sure you can see the heated contibutions it has generated among some contributors to the topic and infact you seem to have lost you temper in response to gambiadev.
I welcome the idea only if it will keep us together and it looks like it will not. That is why i said it is dangerous for national unity. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 04:38:22
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can anyone tell me how i can edit my posts, please. Konderong, i thing it would be a positive experience for the Gambian child to be taught in the language that she is familiar with. like i said before, i don't know ONE Gambian that doesn't speak Wolof. likewise i've also said that even though i'm not Wolof, i would encourage Wolof just because it is a language that basically everybody speaks. however, since this is a thread where we can come up with ideas as to how to make this possible, i'm just throwing this out there. of course, if there is an area where mainly a certain language is spoken, then the schools there can teach in it. but i do strongly feel that as africans, its important for us mentally to be taught in our own languages - its part of improving ourselves and catching up with everyone else.
and no i am not angry at Gambev ( i don't have that much time) but i just want her to really be objective when she's thinking about Gambia |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 08:11:08
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I have heard criticisms by mandinkas about the 'wolofisation' of society. THEIR prejudice is that wolofs are not such good muslims and are too into material things. Perhaps Mandinkas deep in the country might object to their children being taught in Wolof?
Gambia has something very precious..that is the unity and peacfulness of the country. Anything that makes one group superior to another could be dangerous.
I guess I am saying PERHAPS it is best for you all to be EQUALLY disadvantaged by being taught at secondary school in English???
This is for the bigger picture of the countries unity, rather than an education point of view.
Kassma, I am very interested in this topic and in a sense I am 'thinking aloud' in my postings.....no offence is intended.
In UK the English in school is middle class english...not street english. EG swearing in class is not allowed..... we have to learn to say please and thank you etc... There is lots of research to show that working class children are disadvantaged because the language in school is not their home language...even though it is still a form of english....... Especially in the written form.
So a Mandinka child might feel equally alientated being taught in Wolof as in English????? |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 09:00:38
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| Gambev, a Mandinka child, who speaks wolof already, will not feel alienated, i guess the point you keep on missing is that english is not spoken at home or really anyplace else. like i've mentioned before, my maternal side is Manjago and my paternal side is Mandinka. now, if me, as a child, spoke perfect wolof (and i'm NOT a wolof person), i would not have felt alienated if they decided to teach wolof in school because i already speak wolof.you see now. plus like i said, if one area is concentrated with a certain ethnic group then their language should be taught instead. education systems like this have been set up elsewhere in africa ie Nigeria . yes i know it will cost money, but so does everything else. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 09:26:09
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| It will be expensive, so it needs political will then. What is the oppositions view on such policies? |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 18:27:20
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Frankly speaking this issue is not important for gambians. The lanuage to be chosen is a sensitive one.
I can vividly remember when the news were read in the Local languages it took the form from Wolof to mandinka Fulani, Jola and sarahule.
This was changed by a Secretary of state to mandinka, Wolof, Fula Jola and Sarahule. It caused so much discomfort in the country especially in Banjul and serrekunda that the said person could not hold his political position to this day. he was pushed out. His reasoning was that mandinka is more widely spoken and also they are the majority tribe and that in a democracy the majority is accorded some priviledges. It is true that mandinka is more widely spoken and is the majority tribe.
The reality is that very few mandinkas can speak wolof and also the same for the wolofs. infact far less a number of wolof can speak mandinka. I have been to every region of the Gambia and know what i am talking about. A large number of Jolas, almost all sarahules, Fulas can speak mandinka and not wolof. Most people making contibutions here are judging Gambia just from the point of Serrekunda and Banjul which is a small fraction of the gambia. We should see the wider picture. Infact wolf spoken in banjul is not real wolof.
I have live in Upper saloum for 6 six years and those who are offay with the Gambia know what i am talking about. When i came to serrekunda most people could hardly understand me because my Wolf was original and undiluted. Hence i was called a FANA FANA even though i am not a wolof.
Can any one tell me what GOUTA means in wollof or HIW or BENTI.
THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS MOST PEOPLE DO NOT SPEAK THE LANGUAGES IN THEIR ORIGINAL FORM. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 18:41:38
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| It is a very sensitive issue indeed. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2006 : 19:00:52
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Keep it up you doing well
It would not be a dance on roses but we have no choice but to hold our grounds.
“So are you saying there are sufficient similarities between the languages that it wouldn’t matter which one was chosen?” The kind of similarities you are advocating to be sufficient dose not exist in any language group. I wonder why it should be a criterion for accepting the official statuses of Gambian languages. Take the Indo-European language group as an example; it’s said to originate from Sanskrit an ancient language of India. But the European branches of this group have no such similarity. Secondly there is always a difference between written and spoken language
(e g. Written and spoken English)
Kassma´s example is a very good one that outlines the kind of inter lingual relations in the Gambia. I was born in a Wolof village, grew up in a bilingual village on the bank of the river Gambia and did my education in multilingual schools. There are many many more examples of other kinds of lingual relations in the Gambia.
“I have heard criticisms by mandinkas about the 'wolofisation' of society.” The notion of stereotyping exists in all societies all over the world; between English and Irish, Northerners and Southerners, French and German, Italian and Spanish and so fort.
“The problem is most people do not speak the languages in their original form and kept borrowing form others. This is very so in the towns.” Language is not static but dynamic. English, French, German, Swedish are all borrowing words from each other and from Latin and other languages of the world. There is no Englishman that knows the English dictionary in and out; there are certain words in the dictionary that are not used today. There are many books written by the adult literacy programme much later and many more by Peace Corps available on the net and around.
“The climate right now is so tribe sensitive /---/“ Yes and that’s why we have to be cautious, objective and determined to see the forest and not get blinded by a tree. And be careful not to create or fabricate differences or problems in relations or places where they don’t exist in reality. We have to go beyond sentimentality, however passionate we may be. We have no choice but to discuss in good spirit and to objectively get reed of whatever obstacle that prevents us from moving ahead meaningfully. And always have the development of the Gambia at the back of our heads.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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