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snuggels

960 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2011 :  13:55:15  Show Profile
Even with the proposed pension reforms the UK government are putting forward for the public sector it’s still generous compared to the private sector such pensions the private sector can only dream about. They have made the sacrifices with no final salary schemes now available and also now contribute more than previously

The public sector also gets more holidays and takes more time of sick. They contribute nothing to the wealth of the country. The fact is in 3 years time there is going to be a black hole in the pension fund of nearly £10 Billion. The money isn’t there. Do they honestly think the majority of the general public support them?
I don’t think so.

snuggels

960 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  01:06:30  Show Profile
If my memory serves me right 2 out of 5 workers in the UK are in the public sector a ratio that just can t be right So get rid of the quangoes and the nearly three quarters of a million workers in non jobs not in front line services and think of the money that would save the tax payer and the pesion fund
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toubab1020



12306 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  01:12:28  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Sounds simple snuggles,and perhaps it could work, but wait a mo....( no not MOE )......what jobs could those deposed quango panel members do to get their gratuities or pension increases ?


"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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snuggels

960 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  04:27:32  Show Profile
Councils offer 'bizarre non-jobs' including roller disco coach and toothbrush adviser for infants

A roller disco coach, a part-time toothbrush adviser for infants and a ceremonial sword bearer are just some of the 'non-jobs' offered by councils across Britain.
Other roles which have come under criticism from the Taxpayer's Alliance include trampoline coaches, skate park attendants, flower arrangers, a 'befriending co-ordinator'; and a 'street football co-ordinator', which pays £19,000-a-year.
The audit of local government positions, obtained by a freedom of information request, have been criticised as 'bizarre non-jobs' aimed at satisfying a culture of health and safety and political correctness.
'There has been a huge boom in the number of unnecessary and bizarre jobs in local government in recent years,' said Matthew Elliott, chief executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, a pressure group.
'Many of the posts are laughable, but they have a serious financial impact for taxpayers. The last thing we need in the middle of a recession is to have hundreds of ‘non-jobs’ on the public payroll soaking up taxpayers’ money.'
The Sunday Times, which submitted the freedom of information request, received responses from 118 councils, and estimated that 'non-jobs' cost the taxpayer around £800,000-a-year. Applied across all 442 local authorities, such posts would cost about £3m a year.
Newcastle upon Tyne was highlighted as one of the worst offenders. It employs a dedicated 'breastfeeding peer support co-ordinator' and a 'composting supervisor', attracting a salary of up to £23,470 to run a facility that turns garden waste into compost.
One of the council's most diverse employee is a part-time sword bearer and mace bearer to help mayor David Wood on ceremonial occasions.
The mayor, who is government chief whip Nick Brown's political agent, also enjoys the services of four chauffeur-butlers, who collectively earn more than £60,000 a year.
A spokesman for the council, which will cut 500 jobs this year, told The Sunday Times the jobs were 'necessary and sensible roles'.

'Step one: Brush': One council offers a part-time job teaching infants how to clean their teeth
Other 'non-job' positions include a falls prevention fitness adviser to help the elderly of Tewkesbury and a £13,000-a-year 'bouncy castle attendant' in Angus, Scotland.
Falkirk's part-time 'toothbrush assistant' earns £3,032 teaching nursery children how to clean their teeth and the council also employs a 'cheerleading development officer'.
Glasgow taxpayers fund a £17,000-a-year 'street mediator' to deal with teens hanging around on street corners and a 'chewing gum removal labourer'. The council also funds a £17,800 florist.
Stoke-on-Trent in Staffordshire, employs several part-time pianists for council events and Windsor and Maidenhead in Berkshire employs a 'roller disco coach' every Saturday night.
Moray Council in the Highlands pays £19,887 a year for a street football co-ordinator.
The Local Government Association told the paper councils provided vital services despite falling income.
A spokesman said: 'From lollipop ladies to street cleaners and librarians, town halls employ people that provide more than 800 vital services that many local residents rely on to get through the day.'

Local authorities have taken on an extra 180,000 workers since 1997, with the total number not employed in traditional front-line roles now standing at almost 750,000, according to ministers.
The Coalition is highlighting the figures at a time when councils are threatening to cut basic services and increase charges because of cuts in central government funding.
Ministers want councils to cut middle-management waste instead.
Bob Neill, the local government minister, said: “These figures reveal the explosion in town hall jobs and bureaucracy under Labour and reinforce the need for some councils to start cutting out middle management.
“Crazy non-jobs like cheerleading development officers and press officers tasked with spinning propaganda on bin collections provide no value to the public.

:
“Getting rid of the bloated bureaucracy that has grown in some elements of local government will ensure local authorities can protect front-line services.”
According to the data, the number of people employed by local authorities in Britain stood at 2,728,000 in 1997 when Labour came to power. Last year the figure was 2,907,000.
There were 741,702 people on council payrolls who were not in traditional “front- line” jobs such as those in education, social services, recreation, libraries, planning, environmental health, culture, heritage or trading standards.
Ministers said that, even if trade union predictions that Coalition cuts would lead to 162,000 job losses in local government were correct, it still meant that the number of town hall workers would be higher than when Labour came to office. The local government sector is bigger than central government, according to the figures.
Among the jobs that have been spawned by the boom in “non-jobs” were a “bouncy castle attendant” on a salary of £13,000 at Angus council in Scotland and a “cheerleading development officer” in Falkirk.
Yesterday, ministers seized on Liverpool city council’s decision to advertise three highly paid “non-jobs” on a day when it was announcing job cuts in other areas.
They were for a director of regeneration and employment on a salary of “up to £140,000”; an assistant director of adult services on £90,000 a year; and an assistant director for supporting communities, also on £90,000 a year. The council said it would be making cuts of £91#8201;million, resulting in closures of libraries, leisure centres and youth projects and hundreds of job losses.
David Cameron has accused councils of politically-motivated attempts to undermine the Coalition’s plans. Today’s figures are the latest sign of how acrimonious the split between councils and ministers has become.
Ministers are stepping up the pressure on local authorities to cut salaries to executives in particular.
Eric Pickles, the Communities and Local Government Secretary, is demanding that councils “put their own house in order” before considering cuts to the front line.
He wants chief executives to take pay cuts, claiming that those on a salary of £150,000 can afford to take a five per cent cut, and those on £200,000 can afford a 10 per cent reduction.
This week it was disclosed that 220 town hall executives received a higher salary than the Prime Minister’s £142,500 a year.
At least 26 chief executives earned more than £200,000 last year and 1,000 council officials more than £100,000.
Mr Pickles has also seized on figures showing that more than 15,000 council workers earn more than £58,000 a year. He is about to force local authorities to publish a list of the staff earning that level and above.
The Communities Secretary has published a new code of local government transparency to ensure that taxpayers can “look under the bonnet of their council” and see where town hall chiefs are spending their money. There are 433 local authorities in England.
Ministers point out that public sector productivity fell under Labour while private sector productivity rose. Public sector
salaries are now higher than those in the private sector.
The TaxPayers’ Alliance has highlighted a series of “non-jobs” advertised by local authorities.
They included North East Lincolnshire council advertising for a “future shape programme manager” on £70,189 per annum.
The campaign group published research which showed that last year councils spent £5 million on 141 jobs for political advisers, £6#8201;million on 183 European officer posts, and £10#8201;million on 350 climate change officer roles.
This week Mr Cameron singled out Manchester city council for what he said were “politically-driven” cuts.
He said that, rather than closing help centres, libraries and swimming pools to save £110 million, the council should look closer to home at the chief executive’s pay, for example.


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MeMe



United Kingdom
541 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  16:28:01  Show Profile Send MeMe a Private Message
Had promised myself not to post on here again but hey-ho when you get nonsense posts like these then the temptation is just tooooooooooooo great!

The article quoted dates back to 2009 but there's also an intelligent response - please see below .... check out the bottom line, Snuggels and pause for a thought!!

Sunday Times "exposé" belittles vital social care services
By Daniel Lombard on April 21, 2009 7:45 PM | No Comments | No TrackBacks
by Daniel Lombard

Community Care has exposed misconceptions about social care peddled by red-tops such as The Sun at length, but the broadsheets are far from perfect either.

The Sunday Times published an article at the weekend with the headline: "The toothbrush fairy: a £3,000 council non-job".

In the article the newspaper, which is rightly admired for its investigative journalism, uses the Freedom of Information Act to expose how local authorities are "wasting millions of pounds of public money on pointless jobs".

It runs a list of bizarre titles created by councils such as sword bearer, bouncy castle attendant, and toothbrush adviser for children, which the headline refers to.

A campaigner from the TaxPayers' Alliance describes the jobs as "unnecessary and bizarre" and "laughable".

But the disappointing inclusion of two job titles designed to help reduce the trauma of loneliness and falls among older people - services councils have a duty to provide - demonstrates a lack of understanding of older people's care. It also blurs the lines between fact and opinion - by calling a council position a "non-job" the journalists have expressed their own opinion.

The article reads: "At the height of turmoil in the financial markets late last year, Tewkesbury council in Gloucestershire deemed it necessary to appoint a 'falls prevention fitness adviser', primarily to help elderly people."

Another unnamed council is criticised for appointing a befriending co-ordinator.

Although other roles are printed without inverted commas - a journalistic equivalent of a raised eyebrow - these two job titles are deemed so trivial and unfamiliar to deserve them, further undermining their worth.

Labelling these two health and social care positions "non-jobs" highlights a lack of awareness within the mainstream media of the true value of social care services - a problem our campaign, Stand Up Now for Social Work, is designed to correct.

Far from being "laughable" ideas generated by barmy council bosses, falls prevention and befriending services are exactly what central government is asking councils to provide.

Both elements are included in the government's vision to transform social care outlined in Putting People First, which all councils are in the process of implementing.

The strategy calls for "early intervention" - in which preventing falls, the most frequent and serious type of accident in over-65s in the UK, is a classic example - "to become the norm".

Why the focus on early intervention? Because in preventing low-level needs escalating to acute needs, people are able to live independently for longer, and, in the process, the government saves money. Millions, in fact.

A report by Professor Ian Philp, national director for older people, Department of Health, showed how a £2m investment in preventing falls-related injuries and bone health services from every strategic health authority in England would not only save the NHS £50m (£30m net) a year, but 800 lives in total.

If The Sunday Times is concerned about saving taxpayers' money, this makes appointing an £18,000-a-year falls prevention fitness adviser seem like a pretty sound decision.

The journalists responsible for the article should also read the section in Putting People First calling for "the alleviation of loneliness and isolation to be a major priority".

A spokesperson for Age Concern and Help the Aged, which provides befriending and visiting services to local authorities, says these are "absolutely essential for many hard to reach older people who simply otherwise wouldn't be included in services".

A little background research goes a long way.


It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna

Edited by - MeMe on 01 Jul 2011 16:30:55
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snuggels

960 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  17:35:42  Show Profile
MeMe
The above is mainly about the elderly which I accept and take on board.
My thread covers a wider spectrum and in the main is tru

Edited by - snuggels on 01 Jul 2011 17:36:29
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Momodou



Denmark
11612 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  18:33:57  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message
MeMe, I thought Snuggles posting had something to the public sector strike yesterday. We will soon start a UK forum if the trend goes on like this.

A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone
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toubab1020



12306 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  18:57:55  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
MeMe,snuggles I don't think mentioned anything about the elderly,he was talking about "non jobs" and I for one agree with him, the jobs that you have highlighted with regard to the elderly cannot be considered as no jobs by any stretch of the imagination and are worthwhile services by local councils.

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020



12306 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  19:05:39  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message

No need at all to start another forum Momodou, bantaba in cyberspace is great, after all we have world politics topics,for example, I am sure that you do not forget that there is a substantial Gambian community in the UK ( let me see what was it ? Oh yes UDP UK if I remember correctly !) So these folks are perhaps interested to find out what is happening to the council services in their adopted country of residence Only one problem, so far as I am aware no Gambian has posted on these recent topics,itsd all been Toubabs.It would be great if MOE and Turk joined in these topics as we join in topics that are mainly about Africa,Whateve,for me bantaba is great


quote:
Originally posted by Momodou

MeMe, I thought Snuggles posting had something to the public sector strike yesterday. We will soon start a UK forum if the trend goes on like this.


"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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snuggels

960 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  20:02:10  Show Profile
Yes Toubab in the main the political posting are mainly about Gambia/Africa So I dont get involved I dont like politics anyway However it would be interesting to hear from Gambians in the Uk of what they think about our politicians and central and local govenment in there host country
Now back to the thread
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toubab1020



12306 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  20:20:28  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
snuggles, its like hearing me talking what you have written !!

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 01 Jul 2011 20:21:20
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snuggels

960 Posts

Posted - 01 Jul 2011 :  21:06:19  Show Profile
2 minds think alike
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MeMe



United Kingdom
541 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2011 :  11:31:36  Show Profile Send MeMe a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by snuggels

Councils offer 'bizarre non-jobs' including roller disco coach and toothbrush adviser for infants

A roller disco coach, a part-time toothbrush adviser for infants and a ceremonial sword bearer are just some of the 'non-jobs' offered by councils across Britain.
Other roles which have come under criticism from the Taxpayer's Alliance include trampoline coaches, skate park attendants, flower arrangers, a 'befriending co-ordinator'; and a 'street football co-ordinator', which pays £19,000-a-year.
The audit of local government positions, obtained by a freedom of information request, have been criticised as 'bizarre non-jobs' aimed at satisfying a culture of health and safety and political correctness.
'There has been a huge boom in the number of unnecessary and bizarre jobs in local government in recent years,' said Matthew Elliott, chief executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, a pressure group.
'Many of the posts are laughable, but they have a serious financial impact for taxpayers. The last thing we need in the middle of a recession is to have hundreds of ‘non-jobs’ on the public payroll soaking up taxpayers’ money.'
The Sunday Times, which submitted the freedom of information request, received responses from 118 councils, and estimated that 'non-jobs' cost the taxpayer around £800,000-a-year. Applied across all 442 local authorities, such posts would cost about £3m a year.
Newcastle upon Tyne was highlighted as one of the worst offenders. It employs a dedicated 'breastfeeding peer support co-ordinator' and a 'composting supervisor', attracting a salary of up to £23,470 to run a facility that turns garden waste into compost.
One of the council's most diverse employee is a part-time sword bearer and mace bearer to help mayor David Wood on ceremonial occasions.
The mayor, who is government chief whip Nick Brown's political agent, also enjoys the services of four chauffeur-butlers, who collectively earn more than £60,000 a year.
A spokesman for the council, which will cut 500 jobs this year, told The Sunday Times the jobs were 'necessary and sensible roles'.

'Step one: Brush': One council offers a part-time job teaching infants how to clean their teeth
Other 'non-job' positions include a falls prevention fitness adviser to help the elderly of Tewkesbury and a £13,000-a-year 'bouncy castle attendant' in Angus, Scotland.
Falkirk's part-time 'toothbrush assistant' earns £3,032 teaching nursery children how to clean their teeth and the council also employs a 'cheerleading development officer'.
Glasgow taxpayers fund a £17,000-a-year 'street mediator' to deal with teens hanging around on street corners and a 'chewing gum removal labourer'. The council also funds a £17,800 florist.
Stoke-on-Trent in Staffordshire, employs several part-time pianists for council events and Windsor and Maidenhead in Berkshire employs a 'roller disco coach' every Saturday night.
Moray Council in the Highlands pays £19,887 a year for a street football co-ordinator.
The Local Government Association told the paper councils provided vital services despite falling income.
A spokesman said: 'From lollipop ladies to street cleaners and librarians, town halls employ people that provide more than 800 vital services that many local residents rely on to get through the day.'

Local authorities have taken on an extra 180,000 workers since 1997, with the total number not employed in traditional front-line roles now standing at almost 750,000, according to ministers.
The Coalition is highlighting the figures at a time when councils are threatening to cut basic services and increase charges because of cuts in central government funding.
Ministers want councils to cut middle-management waste instead.
Bob Neill, the local government minister, said: “These figures reveal the explosion in town hall jobs and bureaucracy under Labour and reinforce the need for some councils to start cutting out middle management.
“Crazy non-jobs like cheerleading development officers and press officers tasked with spinning propaganda on bin collections provide no value to the public.

:
“Getting rid of the bloated bureaucracy that has grown in some elements of local government will ensure local authorities can protect front-line services.”
According to the data, the number of people employed by local authorities in Britain stood at 2,728,000 in 1997 when Labour came to power. Last year the figure was 2,907,000.
There were 741,702 people on council payrolls who were not in traditional “front- line” jobs such as those in education, social services, recreation, libraries, planning, environmental health, culture, heritage or trading standards.
Ministers said that, even if trade union predictions that Coalition cuts would lead to 162,000 job losses in local government were correct, it still meant that the number of town hall workers would be higher than when Labour came to office. The local government sector is bigger than central government, according to the figures.
Among the jobs that have been spawned by the boom in “non-jobs” were a “bouncy castle attendant” on a salary of £13,000 at Angus council in Scotland and a “cheerleading development officer” in Falkirk.
Yesterday, ministers seized on Liverpool city council’s decision to advertise three highly paid “non-jobs” on a day when it was announcing job cuts in other areas.
They were for a director of regeneration and employment on a salary of “up to £140,000”; an assistant director of adult services on £90,000 a year; and an assistant director for supporting communities, also on £90,000 a year. The council said it would be making cuts of £91#8201;million, resulting in closures of libraries, leisure centres and youth projects and hundreds of job losses.
David Cameron has accused councils of politically-motivated attempts to undermine the Coalition’s plans. Today’s figures are the latest sign of how acrimonious the split between councils and ministers has become.
Ministers are stepping up the pressure on local authorities to cut salaries to executives in particular.
Eric Pickles, the Communities and Local Government Secretary, is demanding that councils “put their own house in order” before considering cuts to the front line.
He wants chief executives to take pay cuts, claiming that those on a salary of £150,000 can afford to take a five per cent cut, and those on £200,000 can afford a 10 per cent reduction.
This week it was disclosed that 220 town hall executives received a higher salary than the Prime Minister’s £142,500 a year.
At least 26 chief executives earned more than £200,000 last year and 1,000 council officials more than £100,000.
Mr Pickles has also seized on figures showing that more than 15,000 council workers earn more than £58,000 a year. He is about to force local authorities to publish a list of the staff earning that level and above.
The Communities Secretary has published a new code of local government transparency to ensure that taxpayers can “look under the bonnet of their council” and see where town hall chiefs are spending their money. There are 433 local authorities in England.
Ministers point out that public sector productivity fell under Labour while private sector productivity rose. Public sector
salaries are now higher than those in the private sector.
The TaxPayers’ Alliance has highlighted a series of “non-jobs” advertised by local authorities.
They included North East Lincolnshire council advertising for a “future shape programme manager” on £70,189 per annum.
The campaign group published research which showed that last year councils spent £5 million on 141 jobs for political advisers, £6#8201;million on 183 European officer posts, and £10#8201;million on 350 climate change officer roles.
This week Mr Cameron singled out Manchester city council for what he said were “politically-driven” cuts.
He said that, rather than closing help centres, libraries and swimming pools to save £110 million, the council should look closer to home at the chief executive’s pay, for example.




Snuggels/T1020 ... both were actually mentioned in your original posting ... hence my reply!!!!!

It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna

Edited by - MeMe on 04 Jul 2011 11:32:51
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toubab1020



12306 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2011 :  14:19:40  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
MeMe,I would also agree totally that the culture that to get the best manager or CEO or other head of this or that councils and companies MUST pay the vast amounts of cash that are expected,not so,it is obvious to me that a person who knows the job inside out and is then put in charge of whatever is most likely to know what to cut and what to spend money on,PROVIDED that that person is not subjected to interference by POLITICAL pressure being exerted on their function either from the LEFT or the RIGHT each side believing that they have the ANSWERS,I do not think that either side should be capable of railroading a good manager,CEO Chairman,or whatever person in charge of anything may be called.

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 04 Jul 2011 14:21:43
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2011 :  21:58:19  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Snuggles

Government workers do not have to contribute to the wealth. That is not the duty of government. That is the duty of private enterprise in capitalist economies.

Anyway, I always like municipal governments work better than central government. Municipal governments are smaller units, government and voters are closer in relationship and there is more public control. The decision making process is much faster. I think the key for the de-centralization of government services to be more efficient in funds/labor management in government.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.
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