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| Momodou |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:49:14
GAMBIA-L Digest 83
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Gambia-l:The Gambia and related issues mailing list
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
2) RE: Farming and rainfall
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
3) Re: SV: Dekat
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
4) Re: SV: Dekat
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
5) Gov't suport for well-digging etc
by Gunjur@aol.com
6) No Subject
by Gunjur@aol.com
7) Re: A catastrophe!
by Ylva Kamperin <leekamp@algonet.se>
8) Dr. Katim Touray's E-mail address
by LIEDRAMMEH@aol.com
9) Peace
by "amy aidara" <amyaidara@hotmail.com>
10) Which Way Forward?
by "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
11) Re: Dr. Katim Touray's E-mail address
by "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
12) Re: rumors and half-truths
by "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
13) Back to the land and bye bye!
by O BALDEH <O.Baldeh@Bradford.ac.uk>
14)
by abdoub@math.uio.no
15) RE: business ops. in Gambia
by hghanim@nusacc.org
16) business ops. in Gambia
by "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
17) RE: A catastrophe!
by hghanim@nusacc.org
18) RE: Farming and rainfall
by hghanim@nusacc.org
19) RE: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
by hghanim@nusacc.org
20) RE: Peace
by hghanim@nusacc.org
21) RE: business ops. in Gambia
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
22)
by hghanim@nusacc.org
23) Agriculture from another angle
by "Alpha Robinson" <garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
24) Good Work LatJor
by "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
25) Re: Katim Touray
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
26) RE: Good Work LatJor
by hghanim@nusacc.org
27) Re: Back to the land and bye bye!
by "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
28) RE: Farming and rainfall
by msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
29) Re: Agriculture from another angle
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
30) New member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
31) RE: Good Work LatJor
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
32) RE: Back to the land and bye bye!
by hghanim@nusacc.org
33) Re: Farming and rainfall
by "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
34) RE: Farming and rainfall
by hghanim@nusacc.org
35) Fwd: UNITED NATIONS: UN to Help Reconstruct War-Battered Liberia
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
36) FAO/GIEWS Sahel Report No 3/97 (update as of 20 August 97)
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
37) FAO/GIEWS Sahel Report No 3/97 (TEXT)
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
38) Re: SV: Dekat
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
39) Re: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
by "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
40) Re: A catastrophe!
by Ylva Kamperin <leekamp@algonet.se>
41) Education in The Gambia
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
42) Re: Education in The Gambia
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
43) new member
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
44) Re: Dekat (fwd)
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
45) science/language (fwd)
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
46) Re: SV: Dekat
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
47) ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
by ASJanneh@aol.com
48) US / S. Leone
by ASJanneh@aol.com
49) Re: Dekat (fwd)
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
50) Re: Dekat (fwd)
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
51) RE: US / S. Leone
by Tijan Sallah <tsallah@worldbank.org>
52) EARTHWATCH GRANTS FOR FIELD RESEARCH IN AFRICA (fwd)
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
53) Re: A catastrophe!
by Salifuj@aol.com
54) RE: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
55) RE: new member
by "Susan Hatch" <SusanHatch@classic.msn.com>
56) Re: A catastrophe!
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
57) Re: A catastrophe!
by Salifuj@aol.com
58) Re: Dekat (fwd)
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
59) TESTING!
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
60) Re: Dekat (fwd)
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
61) Re: A catastrophe!
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
62) Re: Education in The Gambia
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
63) SV: SV: Dekat
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
64) SV: SV: Dekat
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
65) Re: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
66) Re: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
67) FW: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
by Yusupha AK Ceesay <yusupha@elephantwalk.com>
68) Education In Gambia
by SANG1220@aol.com
69) RE: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
70) RE: A catastrophe!
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
71) RE: A catastrophe!
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
72) Re: A catastrophe!..in response to racism, criticism
by "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
73) Re: Back to the land and bye bye!
by Gunjur@aol.com
74) Re: business ops. in Gambia
by Gunjur@aol.com
75) RE: A catastrophe!..in response to racism, criticism
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
76) Re: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
by Gunjur@aol.com
77) RE: A catastrophe!..in response to racis
by hghanim@nusacc.org
78) RE: business ops. in Gambia
by hghanim@nusacc.org
79) Fwd: Solar Bus Tour Begins in Greece
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
80) Fwd: HEALTH: WHO Detects New Influenza Strain in Humans
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
81) Fwd: Beijing Conference Followup #94
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
82) Which Way Forward (Part 2 of 2)
by "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
83) RE: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
84) Collapsed Building
by SANG1220@aol.com
85) Re: Dekat (fwd)
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
86) Re: new developments & brief..catastophe
by "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
87) Re: A catastrophe!..in response to racism, criticism
by "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
88) To Badara Joof
by Yusupha AK Ceesay <yusupha@elephantwalk.com>
89)
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
90) NEW MEMBER
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
91) Re: NEW MEMBER
by ASJanneh@aol.com
92)
by hghanim@nusacc.org
93) Sahel weather & crop situation
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
94) DV-99 Visa Lottery
by "Dr. S. G. Kamara" <73244.2701@CompuServe.COM>
95) Africa summit may impose tighter Sierra Leone curbs
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
96) Smile of the week (fwd)
by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
97) Re: Collapsed Building
by "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
98)
by abdoub@math.uio.no
99) Re: Collapsed Building
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
100) RE: Collapsed Building
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
101) Re: Education In Gambia
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
102) Re: Add a new member please.
by SAJOKONO@aol.com
103) No Subject
by Gunjur@aol.com
104) request for inormation
by Gunjur@aol.com
105) RE: SV: Dekat
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
106) RE: Appology to Gambi-L
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
107) New Members
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
108) Fwd: WOMEN-MEDIA: International News Sti
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
109) Fro your info.
by "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
110) VB: Which Way Forward (Part 2 of 2)
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 03:04:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Gambia-l:The Gambia and related issues mailing list
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970824030311.5634C-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dodou Jobe has been added to the list. We look forward to his
introduction. Welcome.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 13:23:14 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
Message-ID: <01BCB091.7F003DC0@diik.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCB091.7F096580"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB091.7F096580
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Grotnes,
Thanks for trying. That was great! And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 19:53:06 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <3400F392.197B@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sidibeh!
Thanks again for a stimulating piece. Saul Jawara was right but he
probably meant to say England, not U.S. I came back about two months
ago.
In response to the issues you raised, you first of all pointed out that
the confusion here is the issue of what we should prioritise,
agriculture or IT. I admit (now that you=B4ve raised the issue and I have=
looked at my original posting) that the part I pasted from "Dekat" read
information technology and not technology (my mistake). I have however
not in any way argued that IT should be prioritised over agriculture. I
have in all my postings argued the prioritisation of industy and
technology (in all its forms, including information technology but not
limited to it.) This has always been my conviction.
The second point you raised was that Moe and I seem to believe that
agriculture should take a back seat because of its problematic nature. I
don=B4t know Moe=B4s position on this but my reasoning is not completely
based on the problematic nature of agriculture because there is no
sector that is problem free. My reasoning is that to concentrate all our
efforts on agriculture over which we have no control is wrong.
Third, I still believe that complete dependence on agriculture does not
make economic sense. The reason is that raw materials are cheaper than
than finished products. If we prioritise agriculture over industry and
produce raw materials (by the way, our produce is produced by many other
countries at larger scales thus giving the buying countries more of a
selection and therefore more leverage to knock prices down) for others
to process and sell to us at a more expensive rate, I do not see how
economically wise that is. The product we depend on (peanuts, and if we
diversify, other agricultural produce)is produced by most of our
neighbours. If there is an oversupply, we wouldn=B4t know what to do with=
it and we cannot sell it to our neighbours. If we however concentrate
most of our efforts on industry and technology, we can process some of
our own produce and if necessary buy raw materials from our neighbours,
process the raw materials and sell it back to them and others. It simply
does not make sense to me that we have to import tinned mangoes when we
have mango trees, milk, butter, cheese, corned beef etc. when we have
cattle. The list goes on and on.
In your Ivory Coast example, you mentioned that just after three
decades of diversified agriculture "which developed parallel to
industrialisation" the country was able to make significant strides. You
said "PARALLEL". This means that the Ivory Coast did not invest all its
efforts on agriculture at the expense of industrialisation. Just what I
am trying to argue.
The greatness of such forums as Gambia-l is the platform they provide
for the exchange of ideas. Our exchanges on this subject have been
rather educational and I have noticed how our positions have, no matter
how small, inched towards each other. Your points have been well taken
and noted. In some instances, I must confess, they have modified my
stands. This is just to show that an interchange of ideas can be very
rich indeed.
I think that the discussion should be taken to another level as you
wrote:
As academics, intellectuals, concerned citizens of the Gambia, or
friends of the Gambia, I think the best approach to deal with our
developmental issues is to find the cause of problems, understand them,
and then diagnose a cure.
I agree with you. From the interchanges that have occured on this
subject, various issues have been raised. Issues such as: =
- Prioritisation
- Gambian agriculture not delivering its full potential =
- Complete dependence on rains
- The role of agriculture in providing a basis for industrialisation
- Protectionism
- Quality issues
- Commercial policies towards locally produced items
- Investment of the peasants=B4revenue
I have probably missed a few but maybe you can help out. If we take the
issues one at a time and expand on why we think they are problems and
how they can be overcome (with hopefully maore contributions), we can
probably come up with a uniform position which might help to put the
whole issue into its proper perspective and come up with solutions that
would be meaningful to the realities of The Gambia.
I hope you=B4ve had a nice weekend. Until your next post, I wish you the=
best.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Momodou S Sidibeh wrote:
> =
> Torstein, Moe, and Momodou,
> (Buharry of course, I am surprised. When I read your self-introduction,=
I
> enquired about you from Saul Jawara. He informed me that you were in th=
e
> U.S. He probably meant a different Buharry. Well, again, welcome to the=
> Bantabaa).
> =
> Thanks for your responses. I am sure Katim was simply provoking a
> discussion but it seems he has succeeded. That is how it should be. I =
must
> thank Mr. Alpha Robinson for relocating the discussion in its proper
> perspective. So before dealing with your questions I would try to formu=
late
> what we seem to disagree upon:
> FIRSTLY, the issue is WHAT WE SHOULD PRIORITIISE, AGRICULTURE OR IT
> (INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY) AND INDUSTRIALISATION. Not technology (a confu=
sing
> word here) per se. My emphasis and the core of my arguement was we shou=
ld
> place agriculture BEFORE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY. In my two postings, t=
here
> is not the slightest suggestion that we should neither industrialise no=
r
> improve our technology. Being a student of technology myself, saying su=
ch a
> thing should have been the weirdest idea of the day.
> SECONDLY, except for giving a suggestion as to what products we could
> export (which shortlist Torstein finely supplemented), I have not attem=
pted
> to declare ways and means of improving our agricultural productivity. T=
here
> are others who are better able to do that. I recognise that African or
> rather Gambian agric. has not delivered its true potential due to a who=
le
> complex of problems. I asked for Katim's view on some of these problems=
=2E
> But Moe and Buharry seem to believe that agriculture must now take a ba=
ck
> seat because it is problematic. But what other sector is not? As academ=
ics,
> intellectuals, concerned citizens of the Gambia, or friends of the Gamb=
ia,
> I think the best approach to deal with our developmental issues is to f=
ind
> the cause of problems, understand them, and then diagnose a cure.
> Naturally, where remedies are impossible we must abandon the patient. B=
ut,
> in my opinion, that is not the case WITH AGRICULTURE in Gambia.
> THIRDLY, nowhere did I mention dependence or non-dependence on rain for=
> progress in agric. productivity. But I would like to emphasise that nev=
er
> mind how much one mechanises or irrigates severe droughts, or untimely
> rains can spell disaster FOR ANY GROUP OF FARMERS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD=
-
> the degree of catastrophe depending on whether one is in California or =
in
> Foni.
> One thing which Buharry and I definitely disaggree about, and which
> prompted my responding to his posting is his inference that dependence =
on
> agriculture is uneconomical. He reasoned that that is why the coloniali=
sts
> enforced cash crop production on us, and that further on, it is the rea=
son
> why the developed countries are not replete with farms but industries. =
I
> do not think that is the case at all, so answering Buharry's questions =
may
> expose the reasons why I think that.
> =
> 1. No, Africa is not participating fully in the world economy. One reas=
on
> is that Africa is not using its full potential (for various reasons) in=
> either production or in exchange of its produce, be these industrial or=
> agricultural; and even this peripherical participation is on unequal te=
rms
> because as the Swedish Nobel prize winner Gunnar Myrdal wrote,
> "international trade will generally breed inequality, and will do so th=
e
> more strongly WHEN SUBSTANTIAL INEQUALITIES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE".
> =
> 2. Agriculture as it is currently practiced in Gambia MAY provide a bas=
is
> for industrialisation. But I think the process will be very duanting,
> difficult, and extremely slow. For the past twenty-five years politicia=
ns
> and policy makers have been singing a very misused song: diversify,
> mechanise, irrigate, commercialise, and raise productivity. If this is
> done, as President Jammeh pledges in VISION 2020, then yes, we will sec=
ure
> a basis for industrialisation.
> =
> 3. Yes, it is important to analyse British attitudes towards Nigeria's
> industrialiastion. They wanted the colonies to remain primary producers=
of
> raw materials for their industries, and markets for the manufactures of=
> these industries. They figured that if we industrialise then we will ne=
ed
> these raw materials as local inputs for our own industries and that the=
se
> will be very expensive for them. Also we no longer will be obvious mark=
ets
> for their produce. NOT BECAUSE AGRICULTURE IS UNECONOMICAL. A thorough
> commercialiation of agriculture would have meant that the farmers would=
> produce more in response to excellent producer prices. They would reinv=
est,
> diversify, and afford inputs such as fertilisers. They would gradually
> mechanise and we would have a chance to get into agribusiness ..food
> processing, packaging, exporting. Also you have much less farms in
> developed countries because of the impact of technological change in th=
e
> economic life of nations. In 1900, 40% of Americans were engaged in
> agricultural production. Today it is barely 3%. Technological change, h=
igh
> yield grains, fertilisers, and other inputs so greatly increased
> productivity that less and less people were required to work not only t=
o
> feed the remaining population, but to build mountains of reserve food
> supplies, even after export quotas are met. More and more people left t=
he
> farms to work in industries linked directly to agriculture or other sec=
tors
> of the economy. This trend continues even now as we see more people pul=
led
> from industrial production into the services connected to these industr=
ies.
> Again you have a lot less people engaged in farming than formally not
> because AGRICULTURE IS UNECONOMICAL.
> 4. Yes, our Gambia is essentially a free-market economy. And yes, our
> "diwlini gerrteh" is of poorer quality. But please, let us not forget t=
hat
> there is such a thing called PROTECTIONISM. Essentially, the GATT talks=
,
> which lasted for ages, was about protectionism. Every country practices=
it,
> to a more or lesser degree. I believe in free enterprise. But I also
> believe in government intervention in economic life, especially in
> countries which are so weak that (as Buharry himself said) they cannot
> participate in world trade on equal terms. There are certain industries=
> which we must insist stubbornly to develop until we feel confident that=
> they can do well internationally before we open up to so-called
> competition. Not to do that will be simply irresponsible. The "tiger"
> economies of Taiwan and South Korea practiced this skilfully at their
> earlier stages of industrialisation.
> 7. In 1950 Ivory Coast had only a few soap factories, two canneries and=
a
> tiny array of other industries such as breweries for beer and mineral
> water. But after investing in a diversified agriculture which developed=
> parallel to industrialisation, they were able to produce a large
> manufacturing sector with more than 700 industries just after three
> decades. Their turnover was over US$ 3 billion in 1980. That was, among=
st
> other reasons, why Gambians, Senegalese, Malians, Burkinabe, and Ghanai=
ans
> went there in droves to search for work. I can only lament if Buharry h=
as
> difficulty in understanding what I meant by the relative success of the=
> Ivorians and Zimbabweans and Kenyans. Certainly, we should aim to be li=
ke
> Singapore even if only to appease former President Jawara's dream. But
> since we have been discussing Gambia and Africa I thought that Ivory Co=
ast,
> Kenya, Zimbabwe, and Botswana are examples which, if we studied what th=
ey
> did and what they did not do, could probably help us understand our own=
> predicament.
> =
> Best regards,
> Momodou Sidibeh.
> =
> 1.
> =
> ----------
> > Fr=E5n: Alpha Robinson <garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
> > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > =C4mne: Re: Dekat
> > Datum: den 22 augusti 1997 15:07
> >
> > Even though time does not allow me to comment in detail as I would
> > very much like to do, I would like to ask Dr. Touray; how the Gambia,=
> > a country with a VERY HIGH rate of illeteray, a country where the
> > vast major are still struggling to meet the basic needs of life, a
> > country with zero industrial culture at any significant level could
> > possibly be transformed into the leader of information technology and=
> > industry in Africa? Where will the infrastructure come from. Where
> > will the machines and equipments come from? etc.. etc...
> > Noble as the idea maybe, I wonder how we could
> > put flesh into this dream. And do you really believe that the
> > information tecchnology world and the markets for industrial products=
> > are without control? Perhaps we should learn to crawl first before we=
> > dream about flying.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Alpha
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:46:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970824141700.5843A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings:
To add to the very stimulating subject on what needs to be
prioritized (Agric./Technology/etc), I wonder if perhaps we are
missing the all important issue of science education. I do not
know how we can utilize various technologies effectively (be it
in the growing of food crops or the acquisition of information
across cyberspace) without a good understanding of basic
scientific principles.
The debate I discern is centered around how best/quickly gambia
can be transfromed into an industrailized nation. In a nation
where illitracy is still high and worse where scientific literacy
is probably between 2-3 percent (my speculation), we may have to
reconsider what our priorities ought to be.
While technology can be looked at as the application of
scientific principles, the principles themselves ought to be
comprehended by a large part of the populace. It is only then
that we will begin to see innovative ideas and methods coming
into manifestation from the general populace.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 14:49:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
Message-ID: <970824144919_1850987755@emout11.mail.aol.com>
Habib,
It's an idea, but l think that any effort has to be coupled with a strong
support by a well trained extension staff out in the field working with
individual farmers. If you look at countries like the U.S. and South Africa
e.g, there is a strong gov't sponsored agricultural research program that
disseminates valuable,practical information that is disseminated to farmers
by a well organized extension program. Farmers gain info. that helps maximize
crop yield, such as, best time to plant, crop protection info, weed control,
fertilizersetc. All this info. is generated from research that is specific to
the farmers' geographic location, and is therefore useful information that,
put to use, will generate good results. These farmers can have the
bore-holes, but do they have the know-how to effectively use the water from
these wells to irrigate their fields? Is a simple, inexpensive method of
irrigation using the well available to them? There was an article on the L a
few months ago about an inexpensive irrigation system developed in China that
was simple and affordable. This is what we need if farmers are to use
irrigation effectively. We also need a strong in-country agric research
program that will generate relevant, practical and affordable ways to improve
crop production, as well as an efficient system of delivery of this info. to
the farm level by well trained extension workers. Without this, any effort
will be putting the cart before the horse l'm afraid.
Jabou Joh.
Habib, you wrote:
I must share with all of you some possible solution to this dry spell
which was part of an original plan for the well water system I prepared
ten years ago (of course with only Allah(God) 's help and blessings.)
If all of you could take a little time to address this haunting issue I
will highly appreciate it ( even just the subscribers that are just
listeners & silent)
Everyone's input -pro or against - is needed. Please
Number ONE
I am suggesting OUR Government help indirectly with the infra structure
they already have to take a count of all the water wells (good ones
only) -maybe the statistics dept can do it.
Number TWO
After that is done , The President or his representative ( of the
Republic of the Gambia) in person ISSUE a bonus of Dalasi -( actual
amount to be determined later) and a real certificate of appreciation
documented TO ANY ONE who digs a water well (after the counting is
complete only-) for farming purposes and related agricultural projects.
Number THREE
Make sure that farmers get some seeds/seedlings of any kind of food crops
from friends in the Gambia and Senegal in the form of a barter only -NO
MONEY transactions-to avoid any corruption or abuse by all involved
Government employees or local farmers.
A simple promissory note will be issued by the requestor through a Bank
naming the beneficiary (the Senegalese or Gambian neighbor)- The bank can
send representative up to the farms . The farmers do not have to go to
Banjul or any branches .
Number Four
Depending on the level of cooperation between Senegal and Gambia they
should make this a JOINT TRIAL project for only one year. Then after the
success of the mission each country should do it independently.
Number Five
Ask all local Masjids and churches (or their representatives) to help
monitor the progress of the farmers and give them some kind of authority
to mediate between the parties in each promissory note , which can be
written in Arabic (localized in Wollof, Fula, Jola, Mandinka or any
agreed language) English or even French.
Remember all this will be on a voluntary basis only-no one will be paid
but will commit some time to make the whole thing possible.
The is the rough picture.
We can all brush it up for a more refined & finalized version
Peace
Habib Diab Ghanim
Fax 301 384 2975
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 2:08 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mr.Camara!
Thanks, that was great! It turns out that the Euphoria that followed
the
subscription of the Agricultural or whatever Institute was absolutely
premature,and maybe Mr.Grotnes is also fast asleep,because
the little info.we have got so far has come from our own
people(Camara,Nordam,Habib etc...)
Please,all of you keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
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To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 15:34:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <970824153414_1781196223@emout02.mail.aol.com>
Torstein,
Thanks.l hope your financial losses aren't too major. Hope you have
insurance.
Jabou.
You wrote:
Hello Jabou Joh.
Thank you for your timely and open information on the building accident.
Your description of the happenings matches what we experienced at our house
in Fajara.
We were sitting in the computer-room when suddenly we heard a big bang just
like a very
close thunderclap.
Two-three seconds later one of our servers and one of our workstations just
went black.
After scurrying around to find out what happened and fix the problem, we
came
down to six destroyed 33.6modems, one noneworking networkcard and one
defect CD-ROM burner.
Luckily we had modem spares, so we were operative again after one hour.
Our conclusions were later first that the building in it's collapse had
twisted power-wires
together with telephone wires giving our telephone lines a highvoltage
shock that incredible
enough went through all our safety gadgets.
Your remark on a lightening bolt seems as a more reasonable explanation
now, and also
explains the sharp bang we heard.
My deepest regards goes to the three deceased and also to your family and
the constrains you
are going through.
Sincerely,
Torstein
Commit
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>From tgr@commit.gm Sun Aug 24 02:32:34 1997
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From: "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
To: "Jabou Joh" <Gunjur@aol.com>
Subject: Re: collapsed building
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 03:08:00 -0000
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:47:13 +0200
From: Ylva Kamperin <leekamp@algonet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <3400B9F1.1EBB@algonet.se>
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The Gambia-L shadow list wrote:
>
> This is forwarded from "Jorn Grotnes" <jgr@commit.gm>
> (jgr@commit.gm)
>
> Lee,
>
> >Do not listen to a european when it comes to relating a local news.
>
> Thanks for keeping up the Swedish tradition of racism, I am
> sure they can use another one!
>
> Btw; is that local news everywhere, or just in Africa? E.g. should I
> read Swedish newspapers or must I check with you first about what
> happens there (I take the liberty to assume that you are an African,
> and I assume that I must be a "caucasian")?
>
> Regarding the news you refer to, I must say that after seeing the
> site just minutes after the disaster, I would describe it as a miracle
> that not more than one person was killed. Maybe you should see
> things with your own eyes before using them to feed your myths?
>
> Joern
I apologise for offending some on the list by my "REMARKS" on the
reliability of caucasians in giving the right info. on local news. Maybe
a bit generalised but this is my oppinion and I have a right to it
whether am called racist or "clown".
I was in the Gambia during and after the coup. I was dealing most of the
time with so called aid-workers.From my experiance they spread lots of
rumours and half truths.Anyway I've seen Gambians suffering from this
and considering our distance to home one should be careful who to listen
to.
I didn't mean to say all caucasians are liars.That would be very stupid
to think.
By the way, am Gambian and not Swedish.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 20:21:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: LIEDRAMMEH@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Dr. Katim Touray's E-mail address
Message-ID: <970824201910_-769339354@emout08.mail.aol.com>
This is a request to the list managers.
I am trying to locate Dr. Touray in Wisconsin. I understand he was just
recently re-subscribed to the list. I will be grateful to anyone who could
help with his internet address. Mine is "LIEDRAMMEH@AOL.COM".
N.B. Dr. Touray, if you can read me, please respond immediately. I have
Ebou Jobe here with me in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 21:51:23 PDT
From: "amy aidara" <amyaidara@hotmail.com>
To: Gambia-L@u.Washington.edu
Subject: Peace
Message-ID: <199708250451.VAA29213@f31.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear Habib,
I had received your answer but I wasn't able to answer you. I think
that you did not understand my point. I was just asking a question.
Instead of answering my question,you make me say something I didn't
say.Since that is the case I will say what I think about the Brothers
of Gambia-l.
I think you are using your man ego to discriminate women.Now you are
trying to show that you don't want ladies there and moreover you want to
isolate them in a commitee.Why!!!!!!don't you want to share with your
sisters?
What we need is to be one of you.
Thanks for your understanding.
Amy
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 23:54:45 -0500
From: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Which Way Forward?
Message-ID: <199708250501.AAA11951@tower.itis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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hi folks,
ok, i guess i asked for it.
i'm writing in response to the numerous follow-ups that have come in after
my e-mail to the list. i've been meaning to respond to most of the issues
raised by people who wrote in reply to the previous e-mail, but have been
held back by too many things to do, and the need to hear out whatever
sentiments are out there.
before i expand on my thoughts on where i think The Gambia should be headed
in our national development efforts, i'd like to spell out a little rule of
engagement. please don't call me Dr. or Prof. or whatever. call me Katim.
it's simple, straightforward, and saves time. besides, my people in
Ballanghar still know me as Katim, and would have no idea who you're
talking about if you say Dr. Katim. and i'd like to think they're part of
the debate.
having said that, i'd like to turn to responding to the contributions sent
in regarding the degree of importance agriculture and information
technology should be given in The Gambia. for purposes of argument, i'd
like to classify the responses into those with me, those against, and those
on the sidelines! please do not think there's anything personal about my
classification scheme. i'm just being prudent, and trying to organize
things in a manner i can handle. obviously, it will take me a long time if
i want to answer to each and every e-mail on the issue. so i'd lump them
into groups, and do the best i can in the circumstances to keep the debate
going.
i'll start with strengthening our case, namely that The Gambia should shift
the emphasis in our development efforts from agriculture to technology;
specifically information technology. but, before i get into that, i'd like
to set the stage for the dialogue by highlighting some numbers i've dug
from the various economic statistics sources i've come across.
when we had independence in 1965, The Gambia's population was estimated at
330,000 (UNESCO Statistical Yearbook, 1978-79). with one of the highest
population growth rates (3.3% per annum in the 1980-87 period, compared to
3.1% average for sub-saharan Africa [all figures quoted are from The World
Bank, unless otherwise stated]), the country's population exceed 1 million
by 1993.
qualitatively, the population has been and still is largely poor. for
example, the gross domestic product (GDP), in current dollar values, was
$37m in 1965 (or $112 per capita), and increased to $205m in 1980. by
1987, the GDP had fallen to $172m, possibly because of the shock of the
economic recovery program (ERP) launched in 1985. as recently as 1991, the
GDP was estimated at $360, or $10 more than the average for sub-saharan
Africa.
the country lacks behind most countries in the region in illiteracy, infant
mortality, and life expectancy, according to a 1993 World Bank report.
thus, illiteracy was estimated at 73%, while primary school enrollment was
approximately 61%. furthermore, the mortality rate of children under 5
years was about 240 per 1000, while life expectancy at birth was 44 years.
in general, the Gambian population is rural. while the bulk of the
population lives in rural areas, there has been an increase in the
urbanization of the population. for example, the proportion of the
population living in urban areas increased from in 26% 1970 to 36% in 1987.
furthermore, the urban population was growing at a rate of 8.5% per annum
in the 1980-87 period. i have no reason to suspect that these trends do
not still, by and large, hold true now.
agriculture has always played an important part in The Gambia's economy.
for example, the contribution of agriculture to the country's' GDP varied
from 35%, in 1965 and 1987 to 31% in 1980. as recently as 1991/92 fiscal
year, the agricultural sector accounted for 23.3% of the GDP (Central
Statistics Dept. figures quoted by The Economist). because agricultural
production is so dependent on rainfall, it is not surprising that it's
contribution to the economy is influenced by droughts and other abnormal
climatic patterns.
agriculture is also important to The Gambia by virtue of the fact that a
large proportion of the population is engaged in farming. thus, the
percentage of the labor force engaged in agricultural activities was 88%
and 84% in 1965, and 1980 respectively. while men are engaged in cash crop
production, mainly groundnuts (or peanuts), women primarily focus on food
crops, especially rice.
in contrast to agriculture, industrial activity has been almost
non-existent throughout the 30-odd years of the country's' independence.
for example, in 1965, industry accounted for 9% of our GDP, and this
proportion increased to 13% by 1980. however, by 1987 it had fallen to 11%
of the GDP, only to recover again to 13.8% in 1990.
the service sector of the Gambian economy has been by and large the darling
of economic planners. this sectors' contribution to the GDP has hovered
around 60%, ranging from 56% in 1965 to 57.6% in 1990. undoubtedly, the
growth of tourism, and re-export trade has contributed immensely to the
growth of this sector of the economy.
given the above economic realities (a largely agricultural population, no
economically exploitable mineral resources, etc), the Gambia has focused on
building the agricultural sector of it's economy. since independence, all
governments in The Gambia have put an added emphasis on agricultural
development, partly for political reasons, and partly economic.
at first glance, the policy looks sane and sound. i mean, if we have a low
literacy rate, acute poverty, and rains we can by and large count on, why
not throw our weight behind the farmers. further, it has been proven, as
some people have reminded us on this list, that agricultural development
precedes industrialization. got the picture?
well, i don't. i've come to conclude that we've let ourselves be fooled
for 30 years into thinking that we can attain economic progress by focusing
on agriculture. let me say right off the bat that i agree with those who
say that the issue is not whether we should abandon agriculture, but how
much of our development efforts should be concentrated on that sector.
this position means then that while we should redouble our efforts toward
our industrial development, we should also in the mean time realize that a
huge proportion of our population is engaged in agriculture. does it sound
like a slide to the middle ground? in a way, it is. and this is just as
well, if it means a speedy arrival to a consensus. after all, we have a
country to develop.
when i say we should re-double our efforts at technological development, i
am specifically talking about information technologies. i take this
position for a number of reasons. first, because it's worked for a number
of countries, and second i see no reason why not us.
it's evident to everybody now that southeast Asian countries (or entities)
such as Taiwan, Hong Kong, and lately Malaysia, India, and Indonesia have
made impressive economic progress in recent years. so much so that these
countries are now being called the new Asian tigers because of the powers
they are becoming in the international business scene.
the key behind almost all these countries has been enlightened and focused
economic policies that are geared to plugging them fully into the emerging
information technologies. while one person or two have pointed out that
The Gambia is so poor that we cannot expect to match the accomplishments of
these countries, i would still maintain that i think we can. if we put our
minds to it.
and that's the key to our salvation. i like another word that describes
this mindset thing, and the word is 'attitude.' consider this story that
appeared in the June-July 1997 issue of a US publication called Fast
Company. the article ('Nation of Notebooks') talked about how Taiwan came
to dominate world production of laptop computers. those little things that
cost much more than their weight in groundnuts.
picture this: in Jan. 1994, a Taiwanese company called First International
Computer Inc. (FIC) shipped its first 14 notebook computers. about 2 and a
half years later, they were shipping a whopping 35,500 PER MONTH. you can
bet they didn't do that by saying that they've never shipped a laptop
before. still not satisfied, FIC is estimating that they will exceed the
80,000 units per month target in 1997. now that's what i call attitude.
i agree ours is a nation with a very high illiteracy rate. but the above
article on Taiwan's' laptop cowboys also said that over 90% of the workers
on the assembly lines are foreigners or HIGH-SCHOOL (my emphasis) students.
furthermore, big notebook makers are now building plants in Malaysia, and
Thailand because of cheaper labor costs there. with labor costs already
less than $70 or less than 1% of the total finished product, it is easy to
see laptop makers constantly looking for cheaper manufacturing sites.
if it makes you feel any better, the head of FIC said that any savvy
entrepreneur with enough money can get into the notebook business. you
don't need a single employee, because you can contract out the design, and
purchase all the parts from suppliers. do i hear you reaching for the
phone?
still on the attitude thing. Fast Company (August-September, 1997) also
had another article on how Sony succeeded in penetrating the computer
gaming market with it's PlayStation. big as Sony is, they were smart
enough to realize that to enter a market already dominated by Nintendo and
Sega, they had to re-write the rules. that's exactly what they did, in a
classic example of massive attitude.
first, we're talking about a $15billion market, so even though we're
talking about video games, you know no one's playing games. the
PlayStation was launched in Japan in Dec. 1994, and in the US in Sept.
1995. a year later, Sony shipped 9 million units worldwide, 3 million of
them in North America. by last May, the units shipped had gone up to 5
million in North America, and 16 million worldwide.
the net result? well, Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA) the unit
responsible for PlayStation which 3 years ago had sales of practically
zero, is set to generate worldwide sales of $9 billion, translating into
revenues of over $5 billion. with approximately 1,500 employees worldwide,
and about 500 people in North America, the PlayStation gang generates $3.3
million of revenue PER PERSON. that's way over the $420,000 revenue per
Microsoft person that everyone raves about.
the point again, is that it's amazing what a difference attitude can make.
i mean these guys didn't just sit there and say let's do this thing little
by little and see what will happen. they went in, did what they had to do,
and it paid off big for them. on a related note, it helped that Sony was
out to rewrite the rules. here was an industry that was based on
delivering products via special cartridges that people bought at $35 a pop.
instead of cartridges, Sony distributed it's games on CD-ROM disks,
costing $5 to $10. another great lessen there, pick your fights very well.
i go into the details of all these stories to prove a point. yes, it can
be done, if only you believe that you can. obviously, we have a lot of
hurdles to overcome. but i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that we can
get the job done if we so desire.
what's one to do? i was going to touch on what my thoughts are on how we
can go about developing and implementing policies geared toward plugging
The Gambia into the information superhighway. not only plugging us in, but
also setting the country up to be a significant player in this very new and
exciting industry.
i'm kinda tired right now, and i've got to get some sleep. but before i
sign off i'd like to promise that you can consider this the first part of a
2-part reply to the postings received on the list about the way forward for
The Gambia. i'll be sending out the second part within the week. in the
meantime, keep the debate alive.
finally, i've been thinking: i've got a Web site up, and was wondering if
people would like a mailing list for those of us interested in business and
entrepreneurship. my Web site, still under construction, is aimed at
distributing consumer and small business information. for this reason, i
will be glad to test the mailing list program there by setting one up for
us.
i suggest a name like GAMBIA-BIZ, unless someone thinks of something
better. i'm suggesting Gambia-biz because it has both the country's name,
and the purpose of the list. anyway, please let me know what you think so
i can start working on it, in the event that's what people want.
have a great week!
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 00:04:27 -0500
From: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Dr. Katim Touray's E-mail address
Message-ID: <199708250510.AAA13062@tower.itis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hi folks,
for your info, you can get a list of all subscribers (and their e-mail
addresses) to Gambia-L by sending the following command to LISTPROC.
review Gambia-L
please note that the SUBJECT field should be blank, and the above command
should
go into the body of the e-mail. in anycase, not many e-mail packages would
allow you to do much else.
the only people whose e-mail addresses won't show up when you send the
above command would be those whose subscriptions are CONCEALed. the last
time i checked, no one had their subscription concealed.
also note that you will get 2 e-mail messages when you send the above
command to LISTPROC. the first confirms receipt of the message, and
details what LISTPROC did with it, and if it executed successfully. the
second is what you want to look at, and should have REVIEW GAMBIA-L as it's
subject. please let any of the list managers or owners know if you have
any problems.
finally, the review command is a good way to keep abreast of the membership
(size and
composition of the list). if you've ever wondered how many subscribers
there are, the REVIEW command will always solve your problem.
i guess that's all.
Katim
----------
> From: LIEDRAMMEH@aol.com
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Dr. Katim Touray's E-mail address
> Date: Sunday, August 24, 1997 7:21 PM
>
> This is a request to the list managers.
>
> I am trying to locate Dr. Touray in Wisconsin. I understand he was just
> recently re-subscribed to the list. I will be grateful to anyone who
could
> help with his internet address. Mine is "LIEDRAMMEH@AOL.COM".
>
> N.B. Dr. Touray, if you can read me, please respond immediately. I have
> Ebou Jobe here with me in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:15:26 GMT+1
From: "Heidi Skramstad" <heidis@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: rumors and half-truths
Message-ID: <529D92E6B4C@amadeus.cmi.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Lee,
just a comment to what you said about spreading rumors and
half-truths after the coup:
> I was in the Gambia during and after the coup. I was dealing most of the
> time with so called aid-workers.From my experiance they spread lots of
> rumours and half truths.Anyway I've seen Gambians suffering from this
> and considering our distance to home one should be careful who to listen
I came to The Gambia on the 11th of November, 1994, the day of the
the so-called countercoup attempt, and stayed for half a year.
Because of the political atmosphere, fears and lack of reliable
information at that time, everybody who was concerned about Gambia at
that time were involved in discussions about rumors and half truths,
because nobody had full and correct information about what was
happening. I only talked to a few "toubabs" during that
period, but constantly talked to Gambians, and from your information
it seems like all of us tried to do exactly the same thing - figure
out what was going on. I think it would be quite unfair to make
conclusions about somebody's character based on how they behave
under pressure, fear and general instability.
Regards
Heidi Skramstad
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 11:56:59 +0100 (BST)
From: O BALDEH <O.Baldeh@Bradford.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Back to the land and bye bye!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970825104743.13968B-100000@harrier.cen.brad.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It was a geat pleasure reading the articles in this network and to
realise how eager everyone of us is for the development of our country
among others.
I thank the pioneers of this bantaba and for having me on board.
Time has come for some us to go back to the land and do what we can BUT
what is in within our court and the support at our disposal. You may
wish to learn Dr Janneh's experience if do not understand the essence
of this phrase. However we have always bein going home to put in inputs
once we completed our training!
I also see very flattering with some of the theories of development
propouded by most our colleagues in this bantaba. However the line of
argument of one Alpa Robinson was enough to indicate that utopism is not
consuming the entire bantaba. Oh, once a good student is always a good
student. I must confess that bribing intellectuatls with words (keep up
the good work, that is a nice piece etc etc. is contradictory with
scientific analysis as highly demonstrated by one of the greatest
'artist' of existentialisme- Jean Paul Satre. Purpose is the final
objective not kailel giss ma.
To this i may wish to add development can never be brought, bought form
outside. It has to be built, created, forged.... from within. I did ask
some questions about Melting Pot, Peace Corps. This was not only
question but to ask some you can't we be You may wish to complete the
phrase. In serious discussions one should always be able to see what
the text is all about. Some guys did infact contend that we should wait
for the MRC to eradicate our Mosquitoes without even thinking that thIs
institution is not a Gambian one. So how do you expect it to PRIOTISE
Gambian PRIORITIES? Development is cosummed within and the naming
ceremony so! This has always been the position and conviction of great
and wise leaders: Napoleon said build Rome in France so Rome of Italy
became meaningless to francaises et francais. Even the the German tactics
from the alliance movement to the era of Hitler running through
Hegel...and to the present day diplomacy is based on this principle.
I am wishing the Gambia education group success. When I was lecturing In
that Institution it was something for me but ....Educaion is the base of
everything yes everything and ignorance is the base for nothing and
nothing is wastage etc etc etc..
Oh Gambia-l It was really cool and deadly reading you. May you stand to
see our Land's HDI improve drastically. Me your pioneers wish, if it is
for development, see light as early as timely can be.
Brothers and sisters, I thank all of you for not reading me and know
that when I read your mails, I am existing. So how can I now continue to
exist if I am not going to read your mails???
Do not mind much about the development paragraph. It is just bla bla bla.
It is just a product of How to thing with words. You can use them to
shout, to yail, to bluff, to confuse, to tell lies, to promise, to say oh
I really love you but. You can also use them to stuff any book or article
you are writing. You may wish to refer to pragmatic linguistics or
diplomacy or polictics or go see words walking in the law courts! What is
important is actions speak louder than words, but what speaks loudest? Is
it not Gambia-l ? May it be
You see Gambia-l I do not want to quit
I now say finally bye and see some of you in The Gambia and others in
Paradise. Gambia-l for sure we will see.
For those offended by my language and style, please do I beg forgive.
Al nimbara
ma le na santa di santa yalla
on jarama
Omar Baldeh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:17:06 GMT
From: abdoub@math.uio.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <199708251217.MAA03025@demeter.uio.no>
Hi everybody,
I just want to try and comment on the pieces about investing in
agriculture....and add to Latjor's..
To achieve development through agriculture and industry an economy must
have a minimum of the machinery that can turn the wheels of these
sectors moving. Such a machinery is a workforce that is both efficient
adaptable to the changing times. A moderately educated people with the
basic skills of reading and writing, something that can enable a
populace to be communicated to, is a basic prerequisite. Gambia's
dilemma is, in a sense, comparable to that of Mauritius in the 60's, the
only difference being that Gambia is not an island. Mauritius had then
(and still have) a fixed landmass, accelerating and high population
growth rate, a mixture of religions and races", widespread poverty
and high illiteracy. Amongst many
alternatives, their then rulers chose to invest in basic broad-based
education, a labour intensive (they had labour) industry and ofcourse
agriculture - to achieve self sufficiency in food and at the same time
do without the need to use the foreign exchange earned by the clothing
factories on the expensive foodstuffs that are sold internationally. The
shirt factories acted as stepping stones for the high-tech industries
scattered amongst the rice fields and plantations that are found on the
island today. Mauritians are much better off today - birth rates have
stabilised, illiteracy percentages are nothing to be ashamed of and
people have food.
The scandalous negligence of investments in education by the previous
regime can be babbled about until thy kingdom come, but one also have to
move on and try formulating sensible policies that raise peoples living
standards. I was therefore a bit confused when I learnt that the present
regime had plans of "building" a university.
Anybody who attended a university will know that it is just not the
physical buildings that characterise such an institution. A proper
functioning university system needs a dedicated staff (underpaid most of
the time), a constant pool of knowledge-seeking youngsters who have gone
through a high school level of education and at a minimum people should
see that such institutions do benefit them. Universities do exist all
over Africa, but they haven't helped much in changing people's lives for
the better. They have in most cases contributed in strengthening the
social imbalances that characterises many African economies - namely the
education of a tiny dominant class that is undeservedly "worshipped" by
the not-so-educated majority. My point of view is that for a sustainable
development to be viable Gambia must make big investments in minimum
universal basic education (say 6-8 years - pedagogic experts can help me
out here!) to equip the average person with the skills to f.ex.
comprehend the contents of a newspaper, understand simple written
instructions at a workplace, understand the plots in a simple film or ad
(I'm reminiscing the never-ending applause at the Arts Cinema in
Serrekunda....) etc. Most people tend not to be satisfied with the basics
- the quest for knowledge will then continue for many (brains can be
empty but they can never be full of knowledge!).
A skilled people are capable of choosing either the industrial or the agrarian
path to "success". In today's world though with the USA producing all kinds of
foodstuffs very cheaply and the huge piles of surplus the EU has
amassed, I do believe that an industrial "path to success" is a more
realistic choice for any developing country (but one must have food in
one's tummy). The number of countries that have recently achieved
relatively higher living standards by industrialisation (Taiwan,
Singapore...) are much more than those that ascribe better conditions to
a successful agricultural economy (Chile...).
Cheers!
Abdou.
PS: Sorry about the absence of a header - my editor isn't working as it should.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 8:19:02 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: Gunjur@aol.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: business ops. in Gambia
Message-ID: <TFSGPAKC@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Well said Jabou
Your reply says it all
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunjur@aol=2Ecom
Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 7:32 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: business ops=2E in Gambia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit=2Egm>
(tgr@commit=2Egm)
Dear Gambia-L=2E
On the topic of agriculture and missing rainfalls,
I am very sorry to say that living in Fajara and running a computer =20
company
gives me very little
background on the situation in the rural areas in The Gambia=2E
Both NARB(National Agriculture Research Board) and NARI (National
Agriculture Reseach Institute)
is members of Gambia-L and I have sent mail/talked to them about writing =20
a
little about
the current crop-situation=2E
In a short chat with Dr=2EJeng of NARB he said that a problem now is that
groundnuts
planted at normal time experienced a lack of water resulting in a slow
initial growth=2E
Dr=2E Jeng said that this slow growth made the core(the peanut =20
substance?!)in
the groundnut
smaller than it should be=2E
As I understand it(subjective and personal of course, Mr=2E Lee Jallow=2E=2E=
)
from the news and
here in Fajara, it has been raining parts of the day over most of The
Gambia the last week=2E
(I stand corrected for this of course=2E)
Hopefully the rains will continue and make up for the lost crops=2E=2E=2E
On the topic of a technology vs=2E agriculture society, I believe that
technology should be used
to enhance all aspects of a country=2E
There could be a high-tech environment and a solid agriculture =20
environment
at the same time, working together
for the best results=2E
I am not an expert in any way, but seeing all these different types of
fruits, vegetables, trees, crops, even
several sweet delicious fruittypes I have never seen before, I start
wondering why they are not used
more/exported/manufactured/processed?!
If you have these nice rawmaterials, what is stopping someone from also
making a factory that can
produce finished products?
I believe there is lots and lots of opportunities here for people with an
ability to look at things from the right angle=2E
Here are some free investment tips I have been thinking of and people =20
have
told me about:
-A decent businessbank, at the level of what you expect in Europe=2E(I
delivered a check to a Standard Chartered Bank
branch, and it took them twenty minutes and five people to process the
check=2E)
(I am not even going to mention the rates on loans=2E=2E)
-River transportation=2E Buy good secondhand boats from Norway or wherever=
,
keep a proper technical staff and a standard
level management, keep strict rules on number of passengers etc=2E Maybe
include large rafts for heavy goods transportation
down-river=2E=2E=2E=2E
-Resource and Investment center, there is loads of Gambians alike who =20
have
good business ideas, but needs financial help=2E
-Fisheries=2E Land/or river based fishfarming/oysterproduction i=2Ee=2E =20
anything
that grows in a river=2E=2E
-Rental company=2E Most things can be rented, I believe=2E=2E
-Visa/AMEX/Master company=2E Where is all the cardreaders in this =20
country?!?!
-FastFoodchain=2E I have still not found a decent hamburgerbar in this
country(the chicken is good, though=2E=2E)=2E
-Private power production in rural areas=2E (What would we do without our
generator?!?!)
The keyword here is Standards=2E
Normal,everyday standards that we are used to(most of the time,anyway=2E=2E=
) =20
in
Europe,US etc=2E
Do a proper job,
deliver more than the customer expects,
keep job-ethics:
clothing,
attitude,
workexpectancy,
language,
service,
attitude,
frontdesk-apperance,
timeawareness
and so on=2E
This is a small cost for the company, but gives you an big edge here in =20
The
Gambia=2E
There is bound to be a lot more interesting areas that I don't know =20
about=2E
Anybody in Gambia-L that can match my investment-tip's?
Regards,
Torstein
Commit
The Gambia
Torstein,
l couldn't agree more=2EMany of these are some of the same business ideas l
have had=2E How about a few more:
Vegetable production year round (irrigated of course Habib)
On my recent trip home, my sister informed that the carrots we were =20
eating in
a salad was imported from Holland=2El was surprised=2E The cost per lb=2E w=
as
D2=2E50=2E They say the local ones were not available anymore, and besides,=
=20
they
were hard=2E Improvement of soil texture can help there=2E It seems many
vegetables come in from Senegal (cabbage, Jahatou) and other West African
countries(ginger from Sierra Leone)=2E The veg=2E growers produce all hit t=
he
local market at the same time driving prices down, and when their season =20
is
over, they have to import=2E
Aromatic herbs and spices for local use and export=2E
Dairy production, milk, ice-cream,yogurt etc=2E
Quality Gambian restaurant featuring authentic Gambian food=2EThe tourists
patronize small local food joints much to the dismay of the Gambians=2E =20
They
fail to realize that these folks didn't come to Africa to be served =20
gourmet
European meals like the big hotels serve=2E
Quality bed and breakfast establishments, the few around are taking =20
business
away from the big hotels=2E
Recreation and entertainment centre for youth e=2Eg skating rink with fast=20=
=20
food
and good tropical fruit juice drinks, video game arcade, with incentives
thrown in for good conduct and academic performance resulting in free
admission, treats etc=2E
Quality school and office supplies, children's books, young adults' as =20
well
as adults' novels, Islamic literature and magazines, printing of =20
advertising
specialties=2E
Carpet and sofa shampooing machines=2E
Manufacture of clothing for export=2E Have factory as well as offer =20
contract to
local producers of clothing, handicrafts etc=2Eafter conducting quality =20
control
sessions=2EGive priority to use of locally produced and dyed fabrics=2E A=20=
=20
good
economy booster=2E Include manufacture of clothing, school uniforms, home
furnishings etc for local use, cuts imports=2E
The possibilities are endless=2E I see the situation at home as a new =20
frontier
to conquer as far as business opportunities=2E The need for goods and =20
services
abound everywhere=2E Those who took the initiative when a similar situation
arose in early pioneer days of the U=2ES=2E are those whose fortunes still
flourish today=2E
I HEAR A LOT OF COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE ECONOMY BACK HOME AND HOW TO SURVIVE =20=
=20
IF
ONE VENTURES BACK=2EA BUSINESS THAT OFFERS A WELL NEEDED GOODS OR SERVICE =20=
=20
CAN
NET YOU A GREAT INCOME AND A GOOD LIFE IN GAMBIA=2E
ANYONE FOR A JOINT VENTURE?
Jabou Joh=2E
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
>From GAMBIA-L-owner@u=2Ewashington
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 01:56:59 -0000
From: "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: business ops. in Gambia
Message-ID: <B0000004704@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
Comment on business opportunities.
So far:
1 -A decent businessbank,
2 -River transportation.
3 -Resource and Investment center,
4 -Fisheries. Land/or river based fishfarming/oysterproduction
5 -Rental company.
6 -Visa/AMEX/Master company.
7 -FastFoodchain.
8 -Private power production
9 -Vegetable production year round
10 -Aromatic herbs and spices for local use and export.
11 -Dairy production, milk, ice-cream,yogurt etc.
12 -Quality Gambian restaurant featuring authentic Gambian food.
13 -Quality bed and breakfast establishments,
14 -Recreation and entertainment centre for youth
15 -Quality school and office supplies,
16 -Carpet and sofa shampooing machines.
17 -Manufacture of clothing for export.
Here are some more from me:
18 -Freight transportation between WA countries,
19 -PC clone hardware company,
20 -Software development groups,
21-Gas/Oxygene company(only ONE in The Gambia, serving all the hospitals
and exporting to the region),
> The possibilities are endless. I see the situation at home as a new
frontier
> to conquer as far as business opportunities. The need for goods and
services
> abound everywhere. Those who took the initiative when a similar situation
> arose in early pioneer days of the U.S. are those whose fortunes still
> flourish today.
Agree, and the pioneering starts today.
I will boldly start making more suggestion for the private sector.
There is a organisation called The Gambian Chamber of Commerce here in The
Gambia but after a meeting with the secretary, we very not very impressed
with the
attitude. Our impression was that this org. was sleeping.
Maybe that is due to the lack of private sector life, but I more belive it
is because the professional business attitude is almost nonexistent here.
Everybody seems to be against each other, and expecting the competitors to
keep layers of hidden agendas in whatever they propose.
This can't continue in my opinion. What we need is a bunch of entrepreneurs
and good financial sources coming together and really start changing the
business environment.
Here are some ethics/priorities I belive should be kept in such an group:
1. Corruption in any form is the worst crime,
3. Competition is healty for all parties,
2. The belief that profit can go hand in hand with development of the
society,
3. Keep company ethics (see last mail)
4. Independent investment control group with full powers,
5. Emphasis on start-up of small enterprises(everything have to start
small..),
6. Long term planning and financing,
7. Encourage workers actively participation in the business development
8. Implement basic rights for the employees,
> ANYONE FOR A JOINT VENTURE?
A challenge for the Gambia-L members.
Maybe I was right when I wondered if there was to much talking and to
little action?!
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 8:35:33 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: ASJanneh@aol.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <TFSGUQZQ@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Ditto
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: ASJanneh@aol=2Ecom
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 1997 1:26 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Gambia-L:
I concur with Tony and others that Lee Jallow's statements were
reprehensible, unwarranted, and utterly distasteful=2E In that vein, a =20
public
apology by Mr=2E Jallow is the least that can be expected=2E
Salaam!
Amadou Scattred Janneh
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 8:57:13 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: TGR@COMMIT.GM, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
Message-ID: <TFSHCBHQ@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Torstein
What I meant was not to have them build the wells but just to mediate =20
when repayment or some private arrangements are made to fulfil the =20
promissory note=2E
NO Way ,The last thing to get a non professional dig the wells=2E
Secondly to avoid corruption and STEALING of MATERIALS & EQUIPMENT (which =20=
=20
I personally suffered from also) control and responsibility fall on the =20
contractor finally=2E
Thanks for the INPUT =2E
Can you help me keep a duplicate file on all the replies so that we can =20
one day compare when we want to do the final draft ??
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: TGR@COMMIT=2EGM
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 1997 10:29 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Re: Farming and rainfall
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit=2Egm>
via Commit
Just a comment to well-digging=2E
>----------
>From: hghanim@nusacc=2Eorg
>Number Five
>Ask all local Masjids and churches (or their representatives) to help
>monitor the progress of the farmers and give them some kind of authority =20=
=20
=20
>to mediate between the parties in each promissory note , which can be
>written in Arabic (localized in Wollof, Fula, Jola, Mandinka or any
>agreed language) English or even French=2E
Recently we had a private investment at two fields north of Brikama=2E
This investment included a 25 meter well, and a caretaker-house=2E
Unfortunately, the project collapsed because the people we worked
with did not manage to keep the project on track=2E
The expensive corrugates for the caretaker house mysteriously disappeared =20=
=20
into the villages, and the wellconcrete-rings were never made=2E
While this was an expensive experience for us, it told us that in this
project
there was an absolute necessity for a competent supervisor that ensured
that
the work was done properly and on time=2E
The supervisor would have to be there almost every day, and keep a
timeschedule
on the work=2E
We also experienced that if you made payments in advance the incentive =20
for
finishing the job was destroyed=2E
Next time we will know better=2E
Yours,
Torstein
The Gambia
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 9:22:47 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: Gunjur@aol.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
Message-ID: <TFSHKUFQ@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Jabou,
The inexpensive irrigation system you mentioned works only if there is no =20=
=20
drought in the area and we are suffering from that gradually=2E
This is the solution on a long term basis=2E For example Lake Chad dried =20
completely and was used for many years as an inexpensive irrigation water =20=
=20
supply , but when the source the lake disappeared all the canals and =20
equipment did not mean any thing BUT with water wells there will always =20
be underground water=2E( we may need to re dig only in real dry conditions)
Thanks for the timely information and your input is vital also
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunjur@aol=2Ecom
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 1997 2:46 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Habib,
It's an idea, but l think that any effort has to be coupled with a strong
support by a well trained extension staff out in the field working with
individual farmers=2E If you look at countries like the U=2ES=2E and South=20=
=20
Africa
e=2Eg, there is a strong gov't sponsored agricultural research program that
disseminates valuable,practical information that is disseminated to =20
farmers
by a well organized extension program=2E Farmers gain info=2E that helps =20
maximize
crop yield, such as, best time to plant, crop protection info, weed =20
control,
fertilizersetc=2E All this info=2E is generated from research that is =20
specific to
the farmers' geographic location, and is therefore useful information =20
that,
put to use, will generate good results=2E These farmers can have the
bore-holes, but do they have the know-how to effectively use the water =20
from
these wells to irrigate their fields? Is a simple, inexpensive method of
irrigation using the well available to them? There was an article on the =20
L a
few months ago about an inexpensive irrigation system developed in China =20
that
was simple and affordable=2E This is what we need if farmers are to use
irrigation effectively=2E We also need a strong in-country agric research
program that will generate relevant, practical and affordable ways to =20
improve
crop production, as well as an efficient system of delivery of this =20
info=2E to
the farm level by well trained extension workers=2E Without this, any =20
effort
will be putting the cart before the horse l'm afraid=2E
Jabou Joh=2E
Habib, you wrote:
I must share with all of you some possible solution to this dry spell
which was part of an original plan for the well water system I prepared =20
=20
ten years ago (of course with only Allah(God) 's help and blessings=2E)
If all of you could take a little time to address this haunting issue I =20
=20
will highly appreciate it ( even just the subscribers that are just
listeners & silent)
Everyone's input -pro or against - is needed=2E Please
Number ONE
I am suggesting OUR Government help indirectly with the infra structure =20
=20
they already have to take a count of all the water wells (good ones
only) -maybe the statistics dept can do it=2E
Number TWO
After that is done , The President or his representative ( of the
Republic of the Gambia) in person ISSUE a bonus of Dalasi -( actual
amount to be determined later) and a real certificate of appreciation
documented TO ANY ONE who digs a water well (after the counting is
complete only-) for farming purposes and related agricultural projects=2E
Number THREE
Make sure that farmers get some seeds/seedlings of any kind of food crops =20=
=20
=20
from friends in the Gambia and Senegal in the form of a barter only -NO =20
=20
MONEY transactions-to avoid any corruption or abuse by all involved
Government employees or local farmers=2E
A simple promissory note will be issued by the requestor through a Bank =20
=20
naming the beneficiary (the Senegalese or Gambian neighbor)- The bank can =20=
=20
=20
send representative up to the farms =2E The farmers do not have to go to
Banjul or any branches =2E
=20
Number Four
Depending on the level of cooperation between Senegal and Gambia they
should make this a JOINT TRIAL project for only one year=2E Then after the=
=20
=20
success of the mission each country should do it independently=2E
Number Five
Ask all local Masjids and churches (or their representatives) to help
monitor the progress of the farmers and give them some kind of authority =20
=20
to mediate between the parties in each promissory note , which can be
written in Arabic (localized in Wollof, Fula, Jola, Mandinka or any
agreed language) English or even French=2E
Remember all this will be on a voluntary basis only-no one will be paid =20
=20
but will commit some time to make the whole thing possible=2E
The is the rough picture=2E
We can all brush it up for a more refined & finalized version
Peace
Habib Diab Ghanim
Fax 301 384 2975
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar=2Enet=2Eqa
Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 2:08 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
<< File: FILE0001=2EATT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
=20
--
Mr=2ECamara!
Thanks, that was great! It turns out that the Euphoria that followed
the
subscription of the Agricultural or whatever Institute was absolutely
premature,and maybe Mr=2EGrotnes is also fast asleep,because
the little info=2Ewe have got so far has come from our own
people(Camara,Nordam,Habib etc=2E=2E=2E)
Please,all of you keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
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From: hghanim@nusacc=2Eorg
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu>
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
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**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 9:42:08 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: amyaidara@hotmail.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Peace
Message-ID: <TFSHRJZA@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Sister Amy,
We LOVE you very much and believe me we NEED you also=2E
No one can run a family without our sisters be it wives ,aunts ,mothers =20
or just girlfriends=2E What I wanted to point out is we are not ANTI-Women=20=
=20
as potraided
Maybe we can get this cleared if you allow us=2E We are not perfect and =20
just starting this system =2E It just happened that it was a group of men =20=
=20
who started it and now including any interested sisters like you=2E
Please join hands in making it successful
Brother Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: amyaidara@hotmail=2Ecom
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 12:48 AM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Peace
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Dear Habib,
I had received your answer but I wasn't able to answer you=2E I think
that you did not understand my point=2E I was just asking a question=2E
Instead of answering my question,you make me say something I didn't
say=2ESince that is the case I will say what I think about the Brothers
of Gambia-l=2E
I think you are using your man ego to discriminate women=2ENow you are
trying to show that you don't want ladies there and moreover you want to
isolate them in a commitee=2EWhy!!!!!!don't you want to share with your
sisters?
What we need is to be one of you=2E
Thanks for your understanding=2E
Amy
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www=2Ehotmail=2Ecom
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:05:04 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: business ops. in Gambia
Message-ID: <01BCB179.0BDE2BC0@didi.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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No,you were wrong! Send your proposals (the things you have in mind for =
joint venture) through my private mail.And keep up your provocations =
down there!
Regards Bassss!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 10:58:52 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <TFSIRPAS@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
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LISTPROC
Review Gambia-L
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:18:04 + 0200 MET
From: "Alpha Robinson" <garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Agriculture from another angle
Message-ID: <4240DAB266E@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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It seems to me that when talking about agricultural development, one
needs to ask; development for whom? Obviously, if the Gambia
continues to be among the producers of cheap agricultural products
we are doomed, WITH OR WITHOUT rains! Our role in this market was not
designed to develop our country. I have a feeling that in our search
for the right path we hardly seem to drop the shackles of the
colonial mentality. Instead of first looking inward we make the
mistake of always looking to the outside. Take the example of
tomatoes. The amount of Tomatoes produced in The Gambia is enough to
cover our annual "tomatoe needs". Due to lack of processing
facilities, most of it gets spoilt before consumed. Can you imagine
the market potential for tomatoe paste in the Gambia alone? The same
goes for onions. Tons of onions get rotten and we end up importing
all these items from God knows where. I'm not saying that we should
only produce for the internal markets, but let's never loose sight of
that in the discussion. The link between agriculture and industry
needs to be reestablished and agriculture will deliver the goods. I'd
say Food first!
And it's not only with food. What is wrong with trying to develop the
textile industry in the Gambia to process the cotton we produce? You
remember the local weavers in the Gambia? Could this "industry" not
be further developped from its present state? The product is there
and some knowhow is already available, so why not exploit it? Do you
remember "contar Bata"? Sometime ago (even today, onfortunately only
for tourists)) Gambians used to produce shoes,
leaderware of all sorts. What is wrong with further developping that industry.
Someone talked about fruit processing on the list. What is wrong with
developping the food processing industry in order to produce mango
juice, bannana, baobab, wonjojuice etc. etc. As a child my grand mother
would take me by the hand and gather plants around Serrekunda which
she would cook and give to the sick ones at home. In a day they would
be on their feet again. There are hearbs of high medicinal values in the
Gambia, plants which could be used as pesticides and insecticides.
What is wrong with cultivating such plants and doing systematic
research on their medicinal values? The list can go on and on.
A comprehensive integrated agricultural programme coupled with an
industry designed to process the agricultural products in line with
the needs of the local, regional and indeed international
markets can only be an asset to the Gambia. Agriculture as practiced in the Gambia is a
borden simply because it is not designed to meet our needs. Besides,
the outcome of it does not go back into the economy but rather finds
its way into the wrong accounts while the producers become poorer.
Education is certainly instrumental in this. If we learn to be
creative and not just blind acceptors of technology, we could
inculcate a sense of creativity in Gambians to build this industry
USING OUR OWN MEANS as a starting point. That's what I meant with
learning to crawl first before dreaming about flying.
Technology, whether information or other forms is desierable in our
development quest. It is my opinion though that technology should be
seen as nothing other than the creative application of science to
meet the needs of society. Gambia is not Taiwan or USA or any other
country. Gambia is Gambia, a country with its own reality in search
of the road to a meaningful development. Let us learn from the
experience of others, but never loose sight of our reality, which in
my view should be the cornerstone of our development strategies. No
matter which road we take, at the end of the day the Gambian people
would use their personal incomes to buy food, look for accomodation,
seek medicinal treatment, buy clothes to wear before anything else.
These basic needs must be addressed first if we are in a position to
do so. No farmer would sell his crops at the end of the season and
buy a computer which he cannot use anyway, just to drive around
cyberspace for hours with an empty belly.
regards,
Alpha
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:24:24 EST5EDT
From: "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Good Work LatJor
Message-ID: <182EA4E3E15@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
LatJor,
I most definately agree with your thoughts on the understanding
of scientific principles in relation to the prioritzing of the needs
of a nation. I wish I had thought of this. I was a bit discomforted
with the Peace Corps when they decided to pull their science teachers
in the Gambia (we only have "Resource Assistants"). I want the
Gambia to be self sufficient in the education of her nation but I
feel this move to be a bit premature for exactly the reasons you
stated in your response.
Teaching, learning, and applying science entails a completely
different school of thought than doing the same for literature and
history. What folks term as "American Ingenuity" is probably the
application of science learning? I'm a little shakey on that theory.
Many american breakthroughs in technology (especially medicine) came
at the cost of moral principles and the lack of human decency. Thus
we must keep this in mind when we talk of advancing the Gambia in a
technological fashion.
Anyway, back to the subject... I believe that you were exactly
right in your intimating the lack of scientific literacy as a major
problem in the Gambia. As I have said it is a different school of
thought. The use of conceptual thinking is a necessity. Everyone
exercises different parts of their brain. The famed statistic is
that humans use less than 10% of their brains their entire life (I
may know some folks that use even less... ha ha). If you ask a poet
and an engineer to solve a particular problem, they will solve it in
significantly different ways (and may come up with different
solutions).
I am happy to see so many scientific fields represented within
this list. I am also curious of the folks in these fields and to
their thoughts on this matter. What made a difference in their
scientific education?
This may connect in with a previous discussion we had on the list
involving teaching in gambian languages instead of english. If a
child has to translate from fula to english to english vocabulary
they have never heard nor concepts they have seen, there are going to
be some problems. Can science be taught in wollof? Are there words
for scientific concepts?
I am positive that you have stumbled on a big part of advancement
strategy in the Gambia. I would be interested in a deeper discussion
of this subject.
Laura
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:37:50 -0400
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Katim Touray
Message-ID: <199708251637.MAA04574@aspen.mtu.edu>
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Mon Aug 18 14:47:23 1997
> Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 11:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Katim Touray
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
>
> Gambia-l,
>
> On behalf of the management team of Gambia-l, I am pleased to inform you
> of the return of Dr Katim Touray to the list. Katim is the original
> founder of what continued today as the current Gambia-l. The management
> team has voted to restore him to his former position as
> listowner/manager and will resume the activities attached to the position.
> In case of any doubt, the management team consists of the following.
>
> Subscription managers: Momodou Camara, Amadou Janneh, Sarian Loum and
> Latjorr Ndow.
>
> Listowners/Managers: Tony Loum, Abdourahman Touray and Katim Touray.
>
> Since, the list has more than quadrupled in membership during Katim's
> absence, I have asked him to reintroduced himself and to also expound a
> bit on the history of the list for the benefit of the new members. I am
> also reforwarding a piece that I wrote last January 31st on the
> occasion of our first anniversary touching a bit on the history, again for
> those members who enrolled after that date.
> So, please join us in giving a warm welcome back Dr to Katim
> Touray.
>
> Thanks
> Tony Loum Katim,
Welcome back mate!
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:49:33 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Good Work LatJor
Message-ID: <TFSKDJLA@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Laura,
To answer one of your specific question on the possibility of teaching =20
science in wollof=2E
The answer is YES depending on if the participants can read the Quran or =20
Arabic language which many kids and adults locally have written =20
communications with each other presently=2E
Letters are written in any local language because it base on sounds and =20
phonetics BUT the big question is do we have resources to do that =2E I =20
think the answer is no not now
Peace
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: LTR6685@owl=2Eforestry=2Euga=2Eedu
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 12:22 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Good Work LatJor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
LatJor,
I most definately agree with your thoughts on the understanding
of scientific principles in relation to the prioritzing of the needs
of a nation=2E I wish I had thought of this=2E I was a bit discomforted
with the Peace Corps when they decided to pull their science teachers
in the Gambia (we only have "Resource Assistants")=2E I want the
Gambia to be self sufficient in the education of her nation but I
feel this move to be a bit premature for exactly the reasons you
stated in your response=2E
Teaching, learning, and applying science entails a completely
different school of thought than doing the same for literature and
history=2E What folks term as "American Ingenuity" is probably the
application of science learning? I'm a little shakey on that theory=2E
Many american breakthroughs in technology (especially medicine) came
at the cost of moral principles and the lack of human decency=2E Thus
we must keep this in mind when we talk of advancing the Gambia in a
technological fashion=2E
=20
Anyway, back to the subject=2E=2E=2E I believe that you were exactly
right in your intimating the lack of scientific literacy as a major
problem in the Gambia=2E As I have said it is a different school of
thought=2E The use of conceptual thinking is a necessity=2E Everyone
exercises different parts of their brain=2E The famed statistic is
that humans use less than 10% of their brains their entire life (I
may know some folks that use even less=2E=2E=2E ha ha)=2E If you ask a poe=
t
and an engineer to solve a particular problem, they will solve it in
significantly different ways (and may come up with different
solutions)=2E
I am happy to see so many scientific fields represented within
this list=2E I am also curious of the folks in these fields and to
their thoughts on this matter=2E What made a difference in their
scientific education?
This may connect in with a previous discussion we had on the list
involving teaching in gambian languages instead of english=2E If a
child has to translate from fula to english to english vocabulary
they have never heard nor concepts they have seen, there are going to
be some problems=2E Can science be taught in wollof? Are there words
for scientific concepts?
I am positive that you have stumbled on a big part of advancement
strategy in the Gambia=2E I would be interested in a deeper discussion
of this subject=2E
Laura
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:30:06 -0000
From: "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Back to the land and bye bye!
Message-ID: <B0000004728@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
Dear Omar Baldeh.
You are welcome any time as a Gambia-L shadowlist
member here in The Gambia.
We are looking forward to serving you as a customer.
Sincerely,
Torstein
Commit
The Gambia
>---------
>rom: O BALDEH <O.Baldeh@Bradford.ac.uk>
>o: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Back to the land and bye bye!
>Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 10:56 AM
>It was a geat pleasure reading the articles in this network....
>I thank the pioneers of this bantaba and for having me on board.
>You see Gambia-l I do not want to quit
>Omar Baldeh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:52:18 -0400
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
Message-ID: <199708251652.MAA04576@aspen.mtu.edu>
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Aug 20 05:18:52 1997
> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 12:06:36 +-300
> From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> X-To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Mr.Nordam!
> Thanks for that ' video Clips' ;but is it not amazing that even though we have urged more than three times Gambia's Agricultural Research Institute to give us a Resume of what is going on in this regards,they still have not done so,even though they are now members of Gambia-L?
>
> Again,Mr.Nordam,thanks for the Info.,and keep up the good work down there!
>
>
> Regards Bassss!
Hey, slow down Bassss! I do not think anyone in NARI has joined to list to be the official reporter on the situation of agriculture in the Gambia.
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:41:46 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Agriculture from another angle
Message-ID: <3402426A.546D@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Alpha!
Your post has reiterated some of the arguments some of us have put
forth in the "Dekat" series over the prioritisation of agriculture over
industry. When one takes a careful look at the situation, one can but
notice that our country=B4s role as a cheap raw material supplier "was no=
t
designed to develop our country" as you mentioned. It was designed to
meet the requirements of other countries. To continue this trend for
over 30 years really says something.
One of the consequences of the dependence on agriculture has been a
near total neglect of industrialisation. This has resulted in our
inability to process our produce even for local consumption let alone
for export. This means importing at expensive rates the end products of
the very raw materials that we exported at cheap rates. One doesn=B4t
need a calculator to understand the difference. The lack of industries
also means losing a lot due to produce being spoilt before it is
consumed.
By investing in industries, many of the things that we need for local
consumption can be made in The Gambia. We wouldn=B4t need to import thing=
s
like butter, milk (evaporated, condensed etc.), tomato paste, textiles,
different types of juice, shoes etc. One can go on and on. We can also
export some of the products. WE have the raw materials - cattle to
produce different types, tomatoes, mangoes, oranges etc.
The technology to make industrialisation possible is another point.
While I agree with you that the technology we use should take into
account the realities of The Gambia, I would caution that The Gambia is
not technologically advanced. I think more emphasis should be placed on
investing in technology that can deliver the goods (making our products
competetive) and adapting it to the Gambian situation or investing in
training to upgrade the knowledge base of those working with it. One
cannot expect to improve the investment in farming technology by
investing in hoes because they are the reality of Gambian technology. I
think we should look both inward and outward. Inward to see the current
realities of the country and outward to take advantage of the present
technological advancements. Only this way can we improve.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Alpha Robinson wrote:
> =
> It seems to me that when talking about agricultural development, one
> needs to ask; development for whom? Obviously, if the Gambia
> continues to be among the producers of cheap agricultural products
> we are doomed, WITH OR WITHOUT rains! Our role in this market was not
> designed to develop our country. I have a feeling that in our search
> for the right path we hardly seem to drop the shackles of the
> colonial mentality. Instead of first looking inward we make the
> mistake of always looking to the outside. Take the example of
> tomatoes. The amount of Tomatoes produced in The Gambia is enough to
> cover our annual "tomatoe needs". Due to lack of processing
> facilities, most of it gets spoilt before consumed. Can you imagine
> the market potential for tomatoe paste in the Gambia alone? The same
> goes for onions. Tons of onions get rotten and we end up importing
> all these items from God knows where. I'm not saying that we should
> only produce for the internal markets, but let's never loose sight of
> that in the discussion. The link between agriculture and industry
> needs to be reestablished and agriculture will deliver the goods. I'd
> say Food first!
> =
> And it's not only with food. What is wrong with trying to develop the
> textile industry in the Gambia to process the cotton we produce? You
> remember the local weavers in the Gambia? Could this "industry" not
> be further developped from its present state? The product is there
> and some knowhow is already available, so why not exploit it? Do you
> remember "contar Bata"? Sometime ago (even today, onfortunately only
> for tourists)) Gambians used to produce shoes,
> leaderware of all sorts. What is wrong with further developping that in=
dustry.
> =
> Someone talked about fruit processing on the list. What is wrong with
> developping the food processing industry in order to produce mango
> juice, bannana, baobab, wonjojuice etc. etc. As a child my grand mother=
> would take me by the hand and gather plants around Serrekunda which
> she would cook and give to the sick ones at home. In a day they would
> be on their feet again. There are hearbs of high medicinal values in th=
e
> Gambia, plants which could be used as pesticides and insecticides.
> What is wrong with cultivating such plants and doing systematic
> research on their medicinal values? The list can go on and on.
> =
> A comprehensive integrated agricultural programme coupled with an
> industry designed to process the agricultural products in line with
> the needs of the local, regional and indeed international
> markets can only be an asset to the Gambia. Agriculture as practiced in=
the Gambia is a
> borden simply because it is not designed to meet our needs. Besides,
> the outcome of it does not go back into the economy but rather finds
> its way into the wrong accounts while the producers become poorer.
> =
> Education is certainly instrumental in this. If we learn to be
> creative and not just blind acceptors of technology, we could
> inculcate a sense of creativity in Gambians to build this industry
> USING OUR OWN MEANS as a starting point. That's what I meant with
> learning to crawl first before dreaming about flying.
> =
> Technology, whether information or other forms is desierable in our
> development quest. It is my opinion though that technology should be
> seen as nothing other than the creative application of science to
> meet the needs of society. Gambia is not Taiwan or USA or any other
> country. Gambia is Gambia, a country with its own reality in search
> of the road to a meaningful development. Let us learn from the
> experience of others, but never loose sight of our reality, which in
> my view should be the cornerstone of our development strategies. No
> matter which road we take, at the end of the day the Gambian people
> would use their personal incomes to buy food, look for accomodation,
> seek medicinal treatment, buy clothes to wear before anything else.
> These basic needs must be addressed first if we are in a position to
> do so. No farmer would sell his crops at the end of the season and
> buy a computer which he cannot use anyway, just to drive around
> cyberspace for hours with an empty belly.
> =
> regards,
> =
> Alpha
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:42:12 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <19970825174403.AAA25204@LOCALNAME>
Gambia-l,
Theo C. Kuijpers has been added to the list. Welcome
to Gambia-l Theo, we look forward to your contributions.
Please send your introduction to gambia-l@u.washington.edu
regards
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 20:49:06 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Good Work LatJor
Message-ID: <01BCB198.75C32580@digh.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCB198.75C32580"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB198.75C32580
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Laura!
Thanks for your input! In response,I want to say that lacking =
Scientific Concepts in any given language is not an insurmountable =
problem.We must remember that many ,if not most ,of the Scientific =
jargons in English are ANGLICIZED words from other languages, mainly =
Greek and Latin.We don't have to have a Wollof word for OXYGEN before we =
can teach it to our children.All we need to do is to take it exactly as =
it is in English(and its not even an English word) and define it for =
them and explain its functions in Wollof.
Yes,we are abundantly aware of the moral and ethical problems related to =
the Scietification of Society,but having tasted the indignities =
connected with poverty for such a long time,maybe we should now take our =
chances a little with Science.It is indeed a very nice feeling to be on =
the moral high ground,but its also very good to be able to afford and =
live the good life that every human being deserves.
And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 13:47:56 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: TGR@COMMIT.GM, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Back to the land and bye bye!
Message-ID: <TFSKXHQC@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Is there a shadow list??
Pls=2E explain
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: TGR@COMMIT=2EGM
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 1:30 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Re: Back to the land and bye bye!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit=2Egm>
via Commit
Dear Omar Baldeh=2E
You are welcome any time as a Gambia-L shadowlist
member here in The Gambia=2E
We are looking forward to serving you as a customer=2E
Sincerely,
Torstein
Commit
The Gambia
>---------
>rom: O BALDEH <O=2EBaldeh@Bradford=2Eac=2Euk>
>o: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu>
>Subject: Back to the land and bye bye!
>Date: Monday, August 25, 1997 10:56 AM
>It was a geat pleasure reading the articles in this network=2E=2E=2E=2E
>I thank the pioneers of this bantaba and for having me on board=2E
>You see Gambia-l I do not want to quit
>Omar Baldeh
=20
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:58:02 -0000
From: "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Farming and rainfall
Message-ID: <B0000004771@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
>Torstein
>Can you help me keep a duplicate file on all the replies so that we can
>one day compare when we want to do the final draft ??
>Habib
>----------
Actually, I already sort my mail with Internet Explorers "inbox assistant"
so
I keep copies on all types of categories.
I will make a folder and keep a copy on well-digging proposals there.
Regards,
Tosh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 15:39:34 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: TGR@COMMIT.GM, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Farming and rainfall
Message-ID: <TFSMJKLQ@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Tosh,
Can you tell me how to do the same or let me know the name of the =20
software so I can get it or download it from the net
Thanks
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: TGR@COMMIT=2EGM
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 3:34 PM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Re: Farming and rainfall
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit=2Egm>
via Commit
>Torstein
>Can you help me keep a duplicate file on all the replies so that we can =20=
=20
=20
>one day compare when we want to do the final draft ??
>Habib
>----------
Actually, I already sort my mail with Internet Explorers "inbox =20
assistant"
so
I keep copies on all types of categories=2E
I will make a folder and keep a copy on well-digging proposals there=2E
Regards,
Tosh
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1997 20:44:42 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: UNITED NATIONS: UN to Help Reconstruct War-Battered Liberia
Message-ID: <1174732799.433625476@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 21-Aug-97 ***
Title: UNITED NATIONS: UN to Help Reconstruct War-Battered Liberia
by Thalif Deen
UNITED NATIONS, Au 21 (IPS) - The United Nations, rejoicing over
the establishment of a democratically-elected government in
Liberia, says it is shutting down its peacekeeping operations in
the war-battered West African nation.
The 300-member U.N. Observer Mission in Liberia (UNOMIL),
created four years ago by the Security Council, will cease to
exist after its mandate runs out on Sept. 30. UNOMIL consisted of
troops and military observers from Bangladesh, China, the Czech
Republic, Egypt, India, Kenya, Malaysia, Nepal, Pakistan and
Uruguay.
''The principal objective of UNOMIL has been achieved,'' says
Secretary-General Kofi Annan. In a further effort to provide
rehabilitation assistance for the war-ravaged nation, the United
Nations plans to set up a new U.N. Peace-building Support Office
in Monrovia
''I am convinced that such a presence could greatly assist the
new government in its efforts for reconciliation and
reconstruction and contribute to promoting peace and stability in
the region,'' says Annan.
In a report to the Security Council early this week, the
Secretary-General praised both the Economic Community of West
African States (ECOWAS) and the ECOWAS Monitoring Group (ECOMOG)
for playing ''a leading role in bringing peace to Liberia.'' Both
were involved, along with the United Nations, in mediating the
dispute and monitoring the cease-fire and the disarmament process.
''Above all, however, credit goes to the Liberian people who,
through the electoral process, demonstrated their commitment to
peace and their desire for the establishment of a democratically
elected government in their country,'' he said.
After nearly eight years of factional fighting, Liberia held
its presidential and legislative elections in July, followed by
the installation of a new government in August. Charles Taylor was
elected president and his National Patriotic Party won 21 of the
26 Senate seats, and 49 of the 64 seats in the House of
Representatives.
In his inaugural address, Taylor emphasised reconcilation, the
protection of human rights, national unity and the urgent need for
the reconstruction of Liberia's war-shattered economy.
The United Nations has successfully completed a process of
demobilisation and demilitarization under which more than 15,000
ex-fighters and ex-guerrillas have been found gainful employment.
Of these, 3,000 were child soldiers. '' This has kept them away
from activities that could have undermined security during the
electoral process,'' Annan told the Security Council.
The total military strength of the warring parties was estimated
at more than 33,000 and, as part of the disarmament process, more
than 50,000 pieces of ammunition and 4,428 serviceable and 1,103
unserviceable weapons were surrendered to ECOMOG and UNOMIL. After
the official disarmament exercise ended in February, ECMOG has
recovered an additional 3,750 assorted weapons and 152,500 pieces
of ammunition.
Since the end of the disarmament exercise, several U.N. agencies
have been major partners in the consolidation of peace and
preparations for the return to normality in Liberia. Their
activities are now focusing on two primary areas: the resettlement
and reintegration of the population and the preparation of a
rehabilitation and reconstruction plan.
In his report, however, Annan has warned that the situation in
neighouring Sierra Leone ''remains a potential threat to Liberia's
stability.''
Outbreaks of heavy fighting in July in south-eastern Sierra
Leone caused an influx of a large number of refugees into Liberia.
The refugees included 200 militiamen, who were disarmed by ECOMOG.
Currently, there are an estimated 130,000 Sierra Leonean refugees
in Liberia. The refugees are being provided food and shelter by
the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees and the World Food
Programe.
A country that was once the world's third largest rubber
producer, Liberia is expected to launch a programme to revive
plantations abandoned during the civil war. A huge rubber
plantation managed by Firestone, the country's largest private
sector employer and which fell into the hands of one of the
warlords, is to be rehabilitated. The mining of Liberia's main
export earner, iron ore, also came to a standstill during the
conflict.
Since 1990, the United States has provided more than 320
million dollars in humanitarian aid to Liberia. Washington has
also provided more than 30 million dollars for trhe peacekeeping
operation by ECOWAS, and for election and cease-fire monitoring by
U.N. military observers.
Described as one of the oldest U.S. allies in Africa, Liberia
is one of only three African countries with whom Washington has
had defence agreements. At onetime, Liberia also had the biggest
concentration of U.S. government assets in Africa. The world's
largest Voice of America transmitter was located in Liberia, which
was also home for about 400 million dollars in U.S. private
investments. (END/IPS/td/mk/97)
Origin: Washington/UNITED NATIONS/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 16:59:24 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FAO/GIEWS Sahel Report No 3/97 (update as of 20 August 97)
Message-ID: <3401F22C.50FE93E1@earthlink.net>
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<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-=
8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"GENERATOR" CONTENT=3D"Mozilla/4.01 [en] (WinNT; I) [Nets=
cape]">
<META NAME=3D"Author" CONTENT=3D"St=E9phane Jost">
<TITLE>FAO/GIEWS Sahel Report No 3/97 (update as of 20 August 97)</TIT=
LE>
<LINK REL=3D"ToC" HREF=3D"httoc.htm">
<LINK REL=3D"Next" HREF=3D"sahel1f0.htm">
</HEAD>
<BODY LINK=3D"#400000" VLINK=3D"#008000" ALINK=3D"#FFFF00" BACKGROUND=3D"=
=2E./../images/tileyel.gif">
<IMG SRC=3D"../../images/faobnr-e.gif" HEIGHT=3D25 WIDTH=3D475><IMG SRC=3D=
"../../images/giewslog.gif" HSPACE=3D10 HEIGHT=3D80 WIDTH=3D95 ALIGN=3DLE=
FT>
<CENTER> </CENTER>
<B><FONT FACE=3D"Arial,Helvetica"><FONT COLOR=3D"#804000"><FONT SIZE=3D+2=
>SAHEL
WEATHER AND CROP SITUATION 1997</FONT></FONT></FONT></B>
<P><B><FONT FACE=3D"Arial,Helvetica"><FONT COLOR=3D"#006600">Global Infor=
mation
and Early Warning System on food and agriculture</FONT></FONT></B>
<P><IMG SRC=3D"../../images/crumpled.gif" ALT=3D"------------------------=
--------------------------" NOSAVE HEIGHT=3D20 WIDTH=3D800>
<CENTER><B><FONT FACE=3D"Arial,Helvetica">Update as of 20 August 1997</FO=
NT></B></CENTER>
<CENTER><B><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000"><FONT SIZE=3D+2>Unfavourable crop pros=
pects
in The Gambia, Mauritania and Senegal</FONT></FONT></B></CENTER>
<CENTER><B><FONT COLOR=3D"#FF0000"><FONT SIZE=3D+2>but growing conditions=
satisfactory
so far in other Sahelian countries</FONT></FONT></B></CENTER>
<CENTER> </CENTER>
<P> <FONT SIZE=3D+1> </FONT>The dry spell which started
in mid-July over most parts of Senegal, The Gambia and Mauritania persist=
ed
in late July and early August over most parts of the centre and the north=
of Senegal and over western Mauritania. Following dry weather during the
second dekad of July, precipitation resumed in the south of <B><A HREF=3D=
"../../../french/sat_ccd/sen/sensat1f.stm">Senegal</A></B>
during the third dekad but remained limited or absent in the centre and
the north. During the first dekad of August, rains again decreased over
most part of the country, remaining generally below 15mm except in the
south. They resumed in mid-August, notably in the west. Substantial rains=
have been registered on 14, 16 and 18 August by the meteorological statio=
ns
of the centre while they remained sparse or absent in the north (except
in Matam area where a rainfall of about 35mm has been registered on 15
August). The satellite imagery for the second dekad of August (from 10
to 20 August) confirms that precipitation has been more intense over the
western part of the country (see attached last dekads images and <A HREF=3D=
"http://esc_s01/english/sat_ccd/cls/filmccd.htm">film
of the rainy season</A>). In <B><A HREF=3D"../../../french/sat_ccd/mau/ma=
usat1f.stm">Mauritania</A></B>,
following mostly dry weather in mid or late July (except in the extreme
south-east), some rains have been registered in early and mid-August in
the south and south-east while the weather remained dry in the west. In
<B><A HREF=3D"../../../french/sat_ccd/gam/gamsat1f.stm">The Gambia</A></B=
>,
rains resumed in late July after the dry spell of mid-July but precipitat=
ion
remained limited. Countrywide rainfall was reported on 20 August. The Gov=
ernment
has declared a partial crop failure during a meeting with the donor commu=
nity
on 14 August.
<P> In the affected areas, millet and sorghum crops whi=
ch
had been planted in June/early July failed or have been severely affected=
by the dry spell. In all the three countries, assessment missions have
been organized by the governments. These missions, to be completed within=
the next week, will provide useful indications on current crop conditions=
and possible needs for assistance to affected farmers, notably for the
recession and off-season crops which are normally planted from November
as well as for the livestock sector which has been affected by poor pastu=
res.
Replantings of coarse grains could be undertaken following the rains whic=
h
resumed in mid-August in the centre and the north of Senegal and in Mauri=
tania.
However, only short cycle varieties may have a chance to reach maturity
if the rainy season continues to late October. In any case, crop prospect=
s
are poor and below average harvests are anticipated in Senegal, The Gambi=
a
and Mauritania.
<P> In the other parts of the Sahel, growing conditions=
remained more favourable. Rains are widespread and quite abundant over
all producing areas of <B><FONT COLOR=3D"#006600"><A HREF=3D"../../../fre=
nch/sat_ccd/chd/chdsat1f.stm">Chad</A></FONT></B>,
reaching northern parts of the Sahelian zone in mid-August. Rains remaine=
d
also generally widespread over the main producing areas of <B><FONT COLOR=
=3D"#006600"><A HREF=3D"../../../french/sat_ccd/mli/mlisat1f.stm">Mali</A=
></FONT></B>,
<B><FONT COLOR=3D"#006600"><A HREF=3D"../../../french/sat_ccd/bkf/bkfsat1=
f.stm">Burkina
Faso</A></FONT></B> and <B><FONT COLOR=3D"#006600"><A HREF=3D"../../../fr=
ench/sat_ccd/ner/nersat1f.stm">Niger</A></FONT></B>.
They were quite abundant in late July and early August over the south and=
centre of Mali and in late July over Burkina Faso. In <B><FONT COLOR=3D"#=
006600"><A HREF=3D"../../../french/sat_ccd/gbs/gbssat1f.stm">Guinea
Bissau</A></FONT></B>, following reduced rains in mid-July, precipitation=
became abundant in late July and remained widespread in August. In <U><B>=
<FONT COLOR=3D"#006600">Cape
Verde</FONT></B>,</U> plantings are underway following the start of the
rains in late July. GIEWS is continuously monitoring the situation in col=
laborations
with national services and information systems. The system will issue upd=
ates
on the situation, as necessary.
<BR>
<BR>
<CENTER><TABLE CELLPADDING=3D6 WIDTH=3D"60%" >
<CAPTION><B>Satellite Images (Cold Cloud Duration for the last four dekad=
s)</B></CAPTION>
<TR>
<TD>
<CENTER> <IMG SRC=3D"../../sat_ccd/sahel/sah97082.gif" NOSAVE HEIGHT=
=3D195 WIDTH=3D488></CENTER>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<CENTER><IMG SRC=3D"../../sat_ccd/sahel/sah97081.gif" NOSAVE HEIGHT=3D195=
WIDTH=3D488></CENTER>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<CENTER><IMG SRC=3D"../../sat_ccd/sahel/sah97073.gif" NOSAVE HEIGHT=3D195=
WIDTH=3D488></CENTER>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<CENTER><IMG SRC=3D"../../sat_ccd/sahel/sah97072.gif" NOSAVE HEIGHT=3D195=
WIDTH=3D488></CENTER>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<CENTER>Legend : </CENTER>
<CENTER><IMG SRC=3D"../../images/legend.gif" NOSAVE HEIGHT=3D99 WIDTH=3D1=
22> </CENTER>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE></CENTER>
|
<CENTER><FONT SIZE=3D+1>Click here to get a <FONT COLOR=3D"#006600"><A HR=
EF=3D"../../sat_ccd/cls/filmccd.htm">film
of dekadal images of the entire rainy season</A></FONT></FONT></CENTER>
<P>
<HR><FONT FACE=3D"Arial,Helvetica"> <A HREF=3D"http://esc_s01/englis=
h/esahel/sah973e/sah973e.htm"><IMG SRC=3D"../../images/orgprev.gif" ALT=3D=
"Next Page" NOSAVE BORDER=3D0 HEIGHT=3D32 WIDTH=3D32></A> <A HREF=3D=
"http://esc_s01/english/esahel/sahtoc.htm"><IMG SRC=3D"../../images/orgho=
me.gif" ALT=3D"See File" NOSAVE BORDER=3D0 HEIGHT=3D32 WIDTH=3D32></A></F=
ONT>
<BR>
<P>
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--------------5CE623C6438341F36BA21228--
|
| 2 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Momodou |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:50:31
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 10:13:58 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B05142590ACE48@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hie brothers and sisters,
Does anyone know the e-mail address to the personnel of Radio Gambia.
I am a Gambian living in Norway, want to contact my sister via the net.
Her name is Ajie Amie Joof Cole.
Please help me ....
Joof.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:08:42 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: NEW MEMBER
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970828140842.007205e4@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
List Managers!
Kindly subscribe Eliman Jeng to the list. Address:
eliman@online.no
Thanks,
Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 09:36:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASJanneh@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: NEW MEMBER
Message-ID: <970828093557_1781721431@emout06.mail.aol.com>
Gambia-l:
Eliman Jeng is the newest addition to our "bantaba." We welcome him and
expect a formal intro from him.
Amadou Scattred Janneh
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 9:28:13 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: hghanim@erols.com
Message-ID: <TFSHMQLE@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
This is an article that may help some of us understand what is happening =20
in The Gambia with the unpredictable rain patterns
Habib
Wednesday August 27 4:51 PM EDT
El Nino, Scourge of Crops, Markets, Revives
By Elif Kaban
GENEVA (Reuters) - El Nino, an abnormal tropical Pacific Ocean weather =20
pattern which causes devastating droughts and floods, could become the =20
"climate event of the century" and surpass its devastating 1982-83 =20
episode, scientists said Wednesday=2E
The freak weather condition, which could play havoc with crops and, =20
indirectly, with financial markets, has emerged as a key factor for =20
global investors in emerging markets from Latin America to Africa=2E
Jagadish Shukla, head of the Washington-based Institute of Global =20
Environment and Society, told a scientific gathering in Geneva that the =20
phenomenon, which disrupts global rainfall and wind patterns, caused =20
record sea surface temperatures in July=2E
The weather pattern could be "the climate event of the century," he was =20
quoted in a statement as telling delegates at Geneva's Conference on the =20
World Climate Research Program, which is being attended by 300 scientists =20=
=20
from more than 100 countries=2E
El Nino is an abnormal state of the ocean-atmosphere system in the =20
tropical Pacific which causes exceptionally warm and long-lived ocean =20
currents=2E It affects the weather not only locally but can also can cause=20=
=20
droughts or flooding in far-flung regions=2E
Shukla said that El Nino -- Spanish for "The Child" and named after Jesus =20=
=20
by Peruvian fishermen because it tends to peak around Christmas -- could =20
surpass this century's strongest episode which peaked in the winter of =20
1982-83=2E
That episode, which hit areas of South America and in particular Peru, is =20=
=20
estimated to have resulted in the deaths of almost 2,000 people and =20
caused at least $13 billion worth of damage=2E
South America suffered both flooding and drought as typical rainfall =20
patterns were turned upside down by warming waters=2E
In Peru, the economy shrank by 12 percent during the period and the =20
national fishing industry was decimated=2E
There were acute water shortages in Indonesia, the Philippines, Australia =20=
=20
and southern Africa, while both the United States and Western Europe were =20=
=20
hit by storms and floods=2E
Investors, crop analysts and economists from West Africa and South =20
America to Australia are closely watching the odd effects of El Nino, =20
which can be a havoc on agricultural and economic output and cause flash =20
flooding that can sever road and rail links=2E
Forecasts on El Nino allow farmers to plant appropriate crops depending =20
on whether it will be a dry year or unseasonably wet, and take =20
precautions such as pre-emptive flood control measures=2E
Shukla said forecast models, ocean observations and satellite data showed =20=
=20
the sea surface temperature in the eastern tropic Pacific in July had =20
"exceeded all previous records=2E"
"Regional manifestations of this major climate event are already being =20
noticed in several parts of the world," the Indian-born expert added in a =20=
=20
technical presentation to experts=2E He was expected to give a news =20
briefing later on Wednesday=2E
The United Nations World Meteorological Organization (WMO), which is =20
hosting the Geneva conference, said that the current strong El Nino =20
episode, expected to persist into early 1998, had caused wetter than =20
normal conditions over the islands of the central tropical Pacific and in =20=
=20
Chile and Argentina, and drier than normal conditions over parts of =20
eastern Australia and Indonesia=2E
In Indonesia, traders say a drought linked to El Nino is already =20
blistering coffee trees, causing fears of a reduced crop, while in the =20
Philippines, weathermen say the phenomenon is causing rice and corn =20
growing areas in the south to dry up=2E
In the Ivory Coast, where rain picked up in cocoa-producing areas in =20
mid-August, crop analysts say that if an El Nino weather pattern hitting =20
other parts of the world brought dry weather before October, harvest =20
potential could be cut by up to 25 percent=2E
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:29:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Sahel weather & crop situation
Message-ID: <9708281529.AA34496@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Habib you wrote:
> This is an article that may help some of us understand what is happening
> in The Gambia with the unpredictable rain patterns
> Habib
Habib, below is also the August update UN report on the SAHEL region.
SAHEL WEATHER AND CROP SITUATION 1997
Global Information and Early Warning System on food and agriculture
=========================================================================
Update as of 20 August 1997
Unfavourable crop prospects in The Gambia, Mauritania and Senegal
but growing conditions satisfactory so far in other Sahelian countries
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The dry spell which started in mid-July over most parts of Senegal, The
Gambia and Mauritania persisted in late July and early August over most
parts of the centre and the north of Senegal and over western Mauritania.
Following dry weather during the second dekad of July, precipitation
resumed in the south of Senegal during the third dekad but remained
limited or absent in the centre and the north. During the first dekad of
August, rains again decreased over most part of the country, remaining
generally below 15mm except in the south. They resumed in mid-August,
notably in the west. Substantial rains have been registered on 14, 16 and
18 August by the meteorological stations of the centre while they remained
sparse or absent in the north (except in Matam area where a rainfall of
about 35mm has been registered on 15 August). The satellite imagery for
the second dekad of August (from 10 to 20 August) confirms that
precipitation has been more intense over the western part of the country
(see attached last dekads images and film of the rainy season). In
Mauritania, following mostly dry weather in mid or late July (except in
the extreme south-east), some rains have been registered in early and
mid-August in the south and south-east while the weather remained dry in
the west. In The Gambia, rains resumed in late July after the dry spell of
mid-July but precipitation remained limited. Countrywide rainfall was
reported on 20 August. The Government has declared a partial crop failure
during a meeting with the donor community on 14 August.
In the affected areas, millet and sorghum crops which had been planted in
June/early July failed or have been severely affected by the dry spell. In
all the three countries, assessment missions have been organized by the
governments. These missions, to be completed within the next week, will
provide useful indications on current crop conditions and possible needs
for assistance to affected farmers, notably for the recession and
off-season crops which are normally planted from November as well as for
the livestock sector which has been affected by poor pastures. Replantings
of coarse grains could be undertaken following the rains which resumed in
mid-August in the centre and the north of Senegal and in Mauritania.
However, only short cycle varieties may have a chance to reach maturity if
the rainy season continues to late October. In any case, crop prospects
are poor and below average harvests are anticipated in Senegal, The Gambia
and Mauritania.
In the other parts of the Sahel, growing conditions remained more
favourable. Rains are widespread and quite abundant over all producing
areas of Chad, reaching northern parts of the Sahelian zone in mid-August.
Rains remained also generally widespread over the main producing areas of
Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger. They were quite abundant in late July and
early August over the south and centre of Mali and in late July over
Burkina Faso. In Guinea Bissau, following reduced rains in mid-July,
precipitation became abundant in late July and remained widespread in
August. In Cape Verde, plantings are underway following the start of the
rains in late July. GIEWS is continuously monitoring the situation in
collaborations with national services and information systems. The system
will issue updates on the situation, as necessary.
========================================================================
Courtesy of GIEWS
Moe S. Jallow
=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 97 14:19:19 EDT
From: "Dr. S. G. Kamara" <73244.2701@CompuServe.COM>
To: GAMBIA-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: DV-99 Visa Lottery
Message-ID: <970828181918_73244.2701_FHO54-1@CompuServe.COM>
Hello all,
The DV-99 Visa lottery information is out. Here are the details.
Regards,
Kamara.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
DV-99 VISA LOTTERY
DETAILS AND APPLICATION PROCEDURE
IMMIGRATION BULLETIN, Special DV-99 Lottery Edition
NOTE: On August 26, 1997, the Department of State released
information on the next green card lottery. In this special issue,
the most common questions about the lottery are addressed.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT DV-99
What is the "Green Card" Lottery?
The U.S. Congress has authorized the allotment of 55,000
immigrant visas in the DV-99 category during Fiscal Year 1999
(which runs from October 1, 1998 to September 30, 1999).
Foreign nationals who are natives of countries determined by
the I.N.S. (according to a mathematical formula based upon
population totals and totals of specified immigrant admissions
for a 5-year period) are eligible to apply. The application period
will begin at noon Eastern US time on October 24, 1997 and will
end at noon Eastern US time on November 24, 1997.
Nationals of which countries are excluded?
Canada, China-mainland China and Taiwan (nationals of Hong
Kong are not included), Columbia, The Dominican Republic,
El Salvador, India, Jamaica, Mexico, Philippines, Poland,
South Korea, United Kingdom (natives of Northern Ireland and
Hong Kong are eligible, but natives of Anguilla, Bermuda, British
Virgin Islands, Caymen Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibralter,
Montserrat, Pitcairn, St. Helena, and the Turks and Caicos Islands
are not eligible), Vietnam
How are visas allotted?
The DV-99 program apportions visa issuance among six
geographic regions (Africa, Asia, Europe, North America (other
than Mexico), Oceania, and South America (including Mexico,
Central America and the Caribbean). The world is divided up
into high and low admission regions and each of the six regions
is divided into high and low admission states. A greater portion
of the visas go to the low admission regions than to high
admissions regions. High admission states are entirely
excluded from the lottery (those states are listed above) and low
admission states compete equally with other low admission
states in the same region. No single state may receive more than
7% (3,850) of the 55,000 allotted visas. The allotment for this year
is as follows:
Africa: 21,409
Asia: 7,254
Europe: 23,024
North America: 8 (only the Bahamas is included)
South America: 2,468
Oceania: 837
Who is eligible to apply for the lottery?
To receive a DV-99 visa, an individual must be a native of a low
admission foreign state (described above). The individual must
have at least a high school education or its equivalent, or, within
the preceding five years, two years work experience in an
occupation requiring at least two years training or experience.
What does it mean to have a "high school education or its equivalent?"
"High School education or its equivalent" means the successful
completion of a twelve year course of elementary and secondary
education in the U.S. or successful completion in another county
of a formal course of elementary and secondary education
comparable to complete a 12 year education in the U.S. or
successful completion in another country of a formal cause of
elementary and secondary education comparable to completion
of a 12 year education in the U.S. Passage of a high school
equivalency examination is not sufficient. It is permissible to have
completed one's education in less than 12 years or greater than
12 years if the course of study completed is equivalent to a U.S.
high school education. Documentary proof of education (including
a diploma or school transcript) should NOT be submitted with the
application, but must be presented to the consular office at the
time of formally applying for an immigrant visa application.
What does it mean to have "two years work experience in an
occupation requiring at least two years training or experience?"
The determination of which occupations require at least two years
of training or experience shall be based upon the Department of
Labor's Dictionary of Occupational Titles. If the occupation is not
listed in the DOT, the Department of State will consider alternate
evidence. Please Email or write me if you need to check the DOT
(this will probably not be necessary for the vast majority of you
since most of you have high school degrees or the equivalent.
As with proof of education, documentary proof of work experience
should not be submitted with the application, but must be
presented to the consular office at the time of a formal immigrant
visa application.
Can I be a "native" of a country other than the country in which I
was born?
A native is both someone born within one of qualifying countries
and someone entitled to the "charged" to such country under
Section 202(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Thus
someone may be (1) charged to the country of birth of his/her
spouse; (2) a minor dependent child can be charged to the
country of birth of a parent; and (3) an applicant born in a country
of which neither parent was a native may be charged to the
country of birth of either parent. If one claims to be a native of a
country other than where one was born, he/she must include
a statement to that effect on the lottery application and must
show the country of chargeability on the application envelope
(see discussion of the application form and envelope).
Will applying for the lottery affect one's ability to receive a
nonimmigrant visa?
Probably not. Technically, filing a visa lottery application is
equivalent to filing an immigrant petition. According to source
at the Department of State, a consulate will only be notified IF
the person is selected in the lottery. An individual who is not
chosen is on his honor to state that he/she applied for the lottery.
Theoretically, if your name is selected in the lottery, you may have
trouble renewing nonimmigrant status while waiting for your name
to be cleared for processing (see discussion on the postselection
process for securing a green card). This should only be a
temporary problem since permanent residency should eventually
be awarded. There is still a risk that you will fail to be deemed
eligible for the DV-99 visa or the Department of State will have
overestimated the number of individuals to select in the lottery
(see discussion on how the selection process works). However,
of all the lawyers with whom I have spoken, none have ever
reported a problem with a client having entered the lottery. We
have instructed our clients to answer the question on the OF
156 concerning previous immigrant visa applications as follows:
"My lawyer entered me in the DV-99 lottery." We have never had
a problem reported. We have yet to hear of anyone denied a visa
because of a previous lottery application.
Do I need to be in lawful visa status to compete?
An individual who is in the U.S. need NOT be in lawful status to
compete in the lottery. However, the Department of State has
indicated that it will share information with the Immigration and
Naturalization Service for the "formulation, amendment,
administration and enforcement" of the country's immigration
laws. Furthermore, a person out of status may be subject to
the new three and ten year bars on admission of the 1996
immigration law and unable to take advantage of winning the
lottery. Because the laws on this subject are highly complex,
it is recommended that out of status persons contact an
immigration lawyer to determine their status and an
appropriate strategy.
Does it matter whether I am or am not in the U.S.?
Individuals who otherwise meet the requirements for competition
in the lottery, may compete whether they are in the United States
or in a foreign country.
Are there any limitations on the number of entries I can send in
for the lottery?
Each individual is limited to one application in the lottery. If more
than one application is received, the individual will be totally
disqualified. Note: Hundreds of thousands of applications are
rejected every year due to multiple applications.
May a husband and wife each submit a separate application?
Yes. If otherwise qualified, a husband and a wife may each submit
one lottery application. If either is selected in the lottery, the
other would be entitled to derivative status.
If I win, can I get green cards for my family?
Your spouse and unmarried children under the age of 21 are
automatically entitled to the same status as you.
Is there a minimum age to apply for the lottery?
There is not a minimum age to apply for the lottery. However,
the education/work experience requirements will effectively
preclude most people under 18 from applying.
May I adjust status in the U.S. if I am selected?
An applicant may adjust status (switch to permanent residency
in the U.S.) if they meet the normal requirements for adjusting
status with the INS (including not having previously been out of
visa status). Applicants who adjust must first send the forms
they receive from the National Visa Center back to the National
Visa Center. In order to apply for adjustment of status, the INS
must be able to complete action on the case before September
30, 1999.
How does the selection process work?
The National Visa Center in New Hampshire will receive all
applications. Upon receipt, the NVC will place the letter into one
of six geographic regions and assign the letter an individual
number. Within each region, the first letter randomly selected
will be the first person registered, the second letter selected
will be the second person registered, etc. When a case is
registered, the applicant will immediately be sent a notification
letter which will give visa application instructions.
About 100,000 persons, both principal applicants and their
spouses and children, will be registered. Since it is probable
that some of the first 55,000 persons registered will not apply
for a DV-99 visa, this figure is assumed to eventually be
reduced to about 55,000. However, there is a risk that some
applicants will be left out. According to the Department of
State, all applicants will be informed promptly of their place on
the list. Each month visas will be issued, according to
registration lottery rank order, to those ready for visa issuance
for that month. Once 55,000 visas are issued, the program ends.
Registrants for this year's lottery will have to have their visa in
hand by September 30, 1999 at the latest. You must be
prepared to act promptly if your name is selected.
How will I know if I was not selected?
The State Department will not notify applicants who are not
selected. The only way you will know that you are not selected is
if you have not received a registration notification letter before the
date the INS officially states that it has stopped notifying people
(expected to between April and July of 1998).
Is there an application fee to enter the lottery?
No. There is no government application fee for submitting a
lottery application. If you win the lottery, you will pay a special
DV-99 case processing fee later. Winners will also have to pay
regular visa fees at the time of visa issuance. Certain law firms
and immigration consultants offer application services and the
fees for such services may vary. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO
USE SUCH A SERVICE.
Can someone selected in the lottery receive a waiver of any of the
grounds of visa ineligibility on the basis of winning the lottery?
No. There is no special provision for the waiver of any grounds
of visa ineligibility for lottery winners other than those provided
for in the Immigration and Nationality Act. Also, holders of J 1
visas with a two year home residency requirement will not be
able to receive a waiver of this requirement by virtue of being
selected in the lottery. A holder of a J visa can still enter the
lottery, but he/she will have to qualify for a residency waiver in
the same manner as is normally required to get such a waiver.
Because all visas must be issued by the end of September
1999, individuals who have not yet begun their home residency
are effectively precluded (unless they are able to get a waiver of
the home residency requirement quickly).
May someone apply for a DV-99 visa if they are already registered
in another visa category?
Yes.
In what region is my native country assigned?
(1) Africa
Algeria
Angola
Benin
Botswana
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Cameroon
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Comoros
Congo
Cote d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast)
Djibouti
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Gambia, The
Ghana
Guinea (Conakry)
Guinea-Bissau
Kenya
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Madagascar
Malawi
Mali
Mauritania
Mauritius
Morocco
Mozambique
Namibia
Niger
Nigeria
Rwanda
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Somalia
South Africa
Sudan
Swaziland
Tanzania
Togo
Tunisia
Uganda
Zaire
Zambia
Zimbabwe
(2) Asia
Afghanistan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Bhutan
Brunei
Burma
Cambodia
China-mainland (not eligible for DV-99)
China-Taiwan (not eligible for DV-99)
Hong Kong
India (not eligible for DV-99)
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Japan
Jordan
Korea, North
Korea, South (not eligible for DV-99)
Kuwait
Laos
Lebanon
Malaysia
Maldives
Mongolia
Nepal
Oman
Pakistan
Philippines (not eligible for DV-99)
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Syria
Thailand
United Arab Emirates
Vietnam (not eligible for DV-99)
Yemen
(3) Europe
Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina (including components)
Bulgaria
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France (including components and dependent areas overseas)
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Italy
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of Malta
Moldova
Monaco
Montenegro
Netherlands (including components and dependent areas overseas)
Northern Ireland
Norway
Poland (not eligible for DV-99)
Portugal (including components and dependent areas overseas)
Romania
Russia
San Marino
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Turkey
Ukraine
United Kingdom (not eligible for DV-99; NOTE: natives of
Northern Ireland and Hong Kong are eligible, but natives of Anguilla,
Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Caymen Islands, Falkland Islands,
Gibralter, Montserrat, Pitcairn, St. Helena, and the Turks and Caicos
Islands are not eligible)
Uzbekistan
Vatican City (an independent city under the jurisdiction of the
Holy See)
(4) North America
Bahamas, The
Canada (not eligible for DV-99)
United States
(5) Oceania
Australia
Fiji
Kiribati
Marshall Islands
Micronesia, Federated States of
Nauru
New Zealand
Palau
Papua New Guinea
Solomon Islands
Tonga
Tuvalu
Vanuatu
Western Samoa
(6) South America, Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Barbados
Belize
Bolivia
Brazil
Chile
Colombia (not eligible for DV-99)
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominica
Dominican Republic (not eligible for DV-99)
Ecuador
El Salvador (not eligible for DV-99)
Grenada
Grenadines
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Jamaica (not eligible for DV-99)
Mexico (not eligible for DV-99)
Nicaragua
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Suriname
Trinidad and Tobago
Uruguay
Venezuela
------------------------------------------------------------------
HOW TO APPLY FOR THE LOTTERY
There is no form for the DV-99 lottery. All that is required is
that the proper information is typed or clearly printed in the
Roman alphabet on a plain sheet of paper, the application
is signed by the applicant, a proper photograph is included
and the application is sent in a properly addressed envelope
via regular mail.
Each application must contain the following information and
documents:
1. APPLICANT'S FULL NAME
Last Name, First Name and Middle Name
(Italicize Last Name/Surname/Family Name)
Example: Doe, John James [remember to italicize
last name]
2. APPLICANT'S DATE AND PLACE OF BIRTH
Date of Birth: Day, Month, Year
Example: 15 November 1961
Place of Birth: City/Town, District/County, Province,
Country (use current name of country if country's name
has changed)
Example: Munich, Bavaria, Germany,
3. NAME, DATE AND PLACE OF BIRTH OF APPLICANT'S SPOUSE
AND CHILDREN
[Note: Do not list parents as they are not entitled
to derivative status.]
4. APPLICANT'S NATIVE COUNTRY IF DIFFERENT FROM
COUNTRY OF BIRTH
5. APPLICANT'S MAILING ADDRESS, PHONE NUMBER
(if possible) AND NEAREST CONSULATE
Be sure the address is complete since this is where notification
will be sent if the application is selected. A telephone number is
optional. Also list location of U.S. Consular office closest to
current residence or last residence prior to entering U.S.
6. The Applicant's signature is required on the application
(preferably the bottom). This is a new requirement.
7. A recent 1 1/2 inch by 1 1/2 inch (or 37 mm by 37 mm)
photograph of the applicant. The applicant's name must be printed
across the back of the photograph. Be sure to tape the photo to the
application form using a clear tape. Do not staple or paper clip the
photo.
The application should be placed in an envelope which is between
6 inches and 10 inches (15 cm to 25 cm) in length and between 3 1/2
inches and 4 1/2 inches (9 cm to 11 cm) in width.
In the upper left hand corner of the front of the envelope must be
the country of which the applicant is a native. Typed or clearly
printed below the country must be the same name and mailing
address of the applicant as are shown on the application form.
Example:
New Zealand
James John Doe
1111 Main Street
Nashville, Tennessee 37204
WHERE TO SEND THE APPLICATION
Applications must be sent by regular mail (not by hand delivery,
telegram, or any means requiring acknowledgment such as
registered mail or express mail) to one of the six following
addresses, depending upon the region of the applicant's native
country.
Note carefully the importance of using the correct postal zip code
for each region:
AFRICA: DV-99 Program
National Visa Center
Portsmouth, NH 00213
U.S.A.
ASIA: DV-99 Program
National Visa Center
Portsmouth, NH 00210
U.S.A.
SOUTH AMERICA: DV-99 Program
National Visa Center
Portsmouth, NH 00211
U.S.A.
EUROPE: DV-99 Program
National Visa Center
Portsmouth, NH 00212
U.S.A.
OCEANIA: DV-99 Program
National Visa Center
Portsmouth, NH 00214
U.S.A.
NORTH AMERICA: DV-99 Program
National Visa Center
Portsmouth, NH 00215
U.S.A.
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 14:32:33 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Africa summit may impose tighter Sierra Leone curbs
Message-ID: <3405C441.3EADF66E@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Africa summit may impose tighter Sierra Leone curbs
Copyright 1997 Reuters Ltd. All rights reserved.
(Adds foreign ministers' proposals)
By Matthew Tostevin
ABUJA, Aug 28 (Reuter) - A tougher embargo aimed at removing Sierra
Leone's military junta will be proposed to the annual summit of West
African leaders opening in the Nigerian capital on Thursday, conference
sources said.
Foreign ministers from the 16-member Economic Community of West
African States (ECOWAS) ended a marathon meeting that went on through
the night and decided to recommend tighter sanctions against Freetown
coup leader Major Johnny Paul Koroma.
Diplomats said they also decided to recommende that the mandate of
the regional force ECOMOG which helped end a seven-year civil war in
Liberia should be extended to include Sierra Leone.
"An embargo would be open to review after a set period to determine
whether progress has been made or if more action is necessary," one
said.
The heads of state, most of whom were in Abuja by Wednesday
evening, were due to discuss the proposals at the full session from
Thursday to Friday.
The exact time for the start of the summit had not been made public
and conference sources said the heads of state were waiting for the
arrival of a few of their colleagues.
Sierra Leone is represented by Ahmad Tejan Kabbah, the elected
civilian president who was driven into exile by the May 25 coup.
Diplomats said a committee of four countries set up to find a way
to restore Kabbah, proposed enforcing a formal embargo against Koroma,
replacing an appeal for sanctions made after his coup which had been
largely ignored.
They would back this with an appeal to the international community
and the United Nations to respect the embargo.
Regional giant Nigeria and its military strongman General Sani
Abacha, the ECOWAS chairman, lead demands for tough action with military
backing and a threat of force to reverse the coup if an embargo and
dialogue fail.
The other members of the four-nation committee, Guinea, Ghana and
Ivory Coast, are much more cautious.
"The unfortunate events in Sierra Leone, which pose a potential
threat to the stability of our sub-region and the cohesion of our
organisation, present us with serious and new challenges," said Nigerian
Foreign Minister Tom Ikimi.
"This meeting ... will test our ability to fight to restore peace
in Sierra Leone."
A Nigerian attempt to shell Koroma out of power on June 2 failed
when his troops and Revolutionary United Front allies attacked
ill-prepared Nigerian soldiers, who were in Sierra Leone under a defence
pact.
Military sources said the army wants ECOWAS to approve a tough
embargo which would be reviewed after four weeks, with an implicit
threat of force to remove Koroma if needed.
The ECOWAS member states are Benin, Burkina Faso, Cape Verde,
Gambia, Ghana, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Ivory Coast, Liberia, Mali,
Mauritania, Niger, Nigeria, Senegal, Sierra Leone and Togo.
Not counting Sierra Leone, nine of their heads of state first came
to power through force of arms.
Since 1990, when it stepped in to try to end Liberia's civil war,
ECOWAS has been dominated by security issues at the expense of the
regional economic integration it was set up in 1975 to promote.
An ECOWAS summit in Abuja last year spent much of its time working
on a deal to press Liberia's warlords into the elections which were won
in July by Charles Taylor, who launched the civil war in 1989.
Diplomats said the foreign ministers would recommend ECOMOG's stay
in Liberia should be extended for a further 12 months.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 15:56:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, africans@iastate.edu
Cc: gott@us.net, jacka@einstein.franklin.edu
Subject: Smile of the week (fwd)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970828155245.21cff5e4@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Have a good labor day weekend!!!
Smile of the Week
>
>Forwarded: Perspectives on Marriage
>
>ECONOMIST: Marriage is like a barter trade. There must be a double
>coincidence of wants.
>
>OPHTHALMOLOGIST: Love is blind. But marriage is an eye opener.
>
>OPTICIAN: Before you get married, open two eyes. After that, close one eye.
>
>PHILOSOPHER: Marriage teaches you forbearances, meekness, patience,
>thriftiness and a great many things you wouldn't need if you had stayed
>single.
>
>PLUMBER: Marriage is like a warm bath. Once you get used to it, it is
>not so hot.
>
>SOLDIER: Marriage is like a besieged castle. Those who are outside try to
>get in while those who are inside try to get out.
>
>VIOLINIST: Marriage is like a violin. After the beautiful music is over,
>the strings are still attached.
>
>WASHERWOMAN: Marriage is the most expensive way to get your laundry free.
>
>
>
-----------------------------------
N'Deye Marie N'Jie
Graduate Research Associate
The Ohio State University
Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
590 Woody Hayes Drive
Columbus, OH 43210
Fax: (614)292-9448
Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:49:02 +0100
From: "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Collapsed Building
Message-ID: <B0000005155@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Folks,
This is a hypothesis based on news reports and comments by survivors on
Gambia-TV and is in no way conclusive..
Eye-witnesses and survivors on the ground floor claim that there was a
''..Creaking sound..or sounds..'' prior to the Building collapsing..
as there is no public inquiry yet and the building plans have not been made
public..my first hypothesis for the sound..is
1. In Reinforced concrete design and construction..Steel is great in
tension and poor in compression..and concrete is great under compression
but poor under tension..( Civil Engineers will know that )..so in a
reinforced concrete beam..that is concrete + steel reinforcement...the
steel provides the tensile strength..so when a beam starts failing under
load..it warps..that is the sagging..a common sight where the beams have
long spans...also the concrete provides the compressive strength..
so in a column..the concrete is the key element as a column is subjected to
more compressive force..again when a column fails..it warps to the
sides..outwardly from the load
so the creaking noise may be attributed to the cured or curing concrete
yielding under load and tearing apart..after the concrete has failed
naturally the columns (dependent on the steel only) gave way and the
building came down
2. Now it is obvious that the concrete in this building had not achieved
full strength..so a major loss of center as the collapse of the columns
caused the entire structure to fail..
the hypothesis that the columns on the ground floor gave way is supported
by the nature and angle of the collapsed building..down unto itself..the
neighbouring houses..on average 10m or less away were unaffected..it
collapsed basically the way a building demolished by dynamite does..in such
demolition, the key structural elements ..the columns are blown away and
the building just collapses..
3. so if we assume that the building failure derives as described
above..the second question is why did the columns give way...
this could be under-designing or overloading and we can only know this from
reviewing the detail plans or structural plans..in building design..there
is an n- factor or safety factor..say if the load on a building is for
example 10 000 kilonewtons with an n-factor of 2..the structure is designed
to handle 20 000 kilonewtons
this also applies to roads, all of you have seen roadsand bridges with
signs saying ''only vehicles under 4 tonnes"..now a 5 tonne truck does
occasionally cross with no apprent damage..but 10 tonne truck may or may
not cause some failure..this type of road failure is very common in The
Gambia due to trucks overloading..and typically when the subbase and base
of the road yields or fails, it results in depressions..
now it is a common fallacy to think that Concrete achieves full strength
after 28 days..it does not..it is a curve and if tested at after say 7, 14,
21 or 28 days..we can assuage whether the concrete has met its strength
specification..
why is this important?
i. if this was not design flaw..but the concrete is subjected to severe
loading even before it has gained say 50% strength after 14 days or 80%
after 28 days..for example...then let us suppose the n-factor has been
taken into account..add the particular fact that the accident occurred
during severe rains and downpour..add the mass to the water to the
load..which could easily be a significant 20% additional load if we take
into account that the blocks would have absorbed some of the water..the
building was fairly open and there must have been some collection of
water..all this load would be acting...
so quite easily a series of incidents peculiar to this accident could have
overload the structural elements notably the columns of the ground floor
and result in this type of collapse...
another salient point is in design..we use concrete mix..1:2:4 or
1:3:6..that is the ratio of 1 50kg bag of cement to 2 wheel barrows of fine
aggregate (sand) to 4 wheel barrows of gravel..etc but these measurements
are fairly rough with easily a + or - 10% error margin due to the wheel
barrow size or even the weight of the cement bags..a local test once
established an average weight of 47kg for the supposed 50k bags..
so this could also result in a design mix not giving the required
strength..
so I have tried to establish that quite innocently this accident can
occur..and without prejudice I have tried to briefly show multiple failure
causes..I do not claim that this is what happen but what could have
happen...
i will stop for now and I will try to see other dimensions to this tragic
accident and I hope this comment will be taken in good faith by all..
Peace
pmj
p.s. DISCLAIMER
This article does not in any way or form claim to be a matter of fact but a
hypothesis of what could have happened.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 18:48:39 +0200
From: abdoub@math.uio.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <199708291648.SAA41754@sp09.uio.no>
Hi everybody,
I'll just make a brief comment on Pa Musa's piece...
Conjestion has made multi-storey buildings a necessity around the coastal areas in the Gambia. Just building them isn't too much of a challenge, but making them fulfill all intended functions can be a great hurdle even for most experienced engineers. It is just natural for property developers to find the cheapest means that are available (quality considerations do come into the picture, but costs always tips the scales). Contractors also do work for the dough, so they try every way they can to maximise profits by for example paying the guys erecting the reinforced concrete columns peanuts (excuse the expression!). These guys, sweating under the sun, would take a bundle or two of the steel rods to be used to erect the columns....the all to familiar end being crooked columns and worst still failure of the whole building. I'm not speculating speculating on the causes of the collapse of the building, these are just facts of life in the building industry out there. A possible solu!
tion to the problem would be an incorruptible regulatory/supervisory body that provides guidelines/standards whose adherence to would be compulsory for anybody erecting a building (in the first instance say public buildings because if applied generaly it would mean that no private houses are constructed). The dissaster the last Mexico City earthquake was compared to those of Kobe and San Francisco demonstrates the benefits of adherence to strict (and good) building standards.
I'm not gonna bore you with technical details now because Pa Musa has already higlighted som possible causes, but I will just dwell a bit on one thing that local builders seem not to understand. A column or pillar (be it steel or concrete) that carries any significant loading will ultimately buckle. The time of the process depending on various factors. One important such deciding factor is the initial deviation from a straight configuration ie. how bent it was at the time it was erected. (You can demonstrate this by first pressing the end of a ruler on a table and then giving it a little sideways push at mid-height (to introduce bending).......a longer ruler will make the buckling loading even less (length is another important factor)). I have seen walls of newly built houses with gaping cracks - even before occupants move in. All because of columns that are not built straight (yes, and maybe foundations.....). So if you're gonna build a "castle" in Gambia, you make sure the c!
olumns are straight otherwise it's destiny might be the same as the one made of sand.....
Take care!
Have a nice weekend.
Abdou
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 13:26:40 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Collapsed Building
Message-ID: <34070650.B1FAFE0E@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> This is a hypothesis based on news reports and comments by survivors
> on Gambia-TV and is in no way conclusive..
Pa Musa, thank you for your extensive and informative hypothesis. I'm
sure most of us, like myself, are appreciative of your help here.
Before going on, I would like to restate what Pa Musa said in that this
is only a hypothesis and until a proper on-location investigation is
conducted by professionals like Pa Musa, in all fairness to the
construction company, Gamsen, we should refrain from using this to make
accusations against them.
As Jabou mentioned, Mr. Samba, the Managing Director of Gamsen, is also
a shareholder of Gacem, the cement company. I've also heard that he had
at least some ownership of the now collapsed building, either through
his company or privately. As he is a well educated and astute
businessman, we should keep all this mind before we start pointing
fingers in our mind.
Even if Pa Musa's hypothesis is true, the cause of the collapse could be
anything from bone fide errors in construction, to an act of God
(nature), to terrorism. The most important issue I believe this all
raises is that of adherence to and enforcement of a legal building
code. Perhaps some of may be in a position to address this. What is
the state of the present building codes in The Gambia? How are they
enforced? Does the government have the capacity to properly enforce
them?
Last year there was a disaster on the site of Arch 22. A concrete slab
collapsed or fell and killed three workers. I believe it was concluded
that the slab, that was not yet set, was accidentally hit by something
containing concrete (a contraption from which concrete is poured) that
was attached to a crane. That incident raised many questions including
the hours put in by the workers to meet the July 22 opening of the arch
to the type of crane being used. While I do not believe the
investigation into that incident found any negligence on the part of the
builders, who incidentally was Gamsen, the type of crane used was
changed. A crane where the operator operates from near ground level was
changed to one where the operator works at the level of construction so
that the activity takes place at his or her eye level. This change may
or may not have been as a result of the accident for it could have been
scheduled before.
Also, the construction of the arch later raised another issue as, while
it looks as though it was designed so, cars are not normally permitted
to drive under it. It has been said that this is a safety measure due
to the potentially harmful vibrations on the structure from vehicles
driving beneath or through it. I have not been able to confirm this and
, in all fairness, the policy could be one solely of courtesy
(supposedly only the President and some VIP's drive under the Arch).
I mention all this as it pertains to the questions I asked earlier about
building codes. How are the issues raised here addressed/affected by
Gambia's official building codes and their enforcement?
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 22:21:12 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Collapsed Building
Message-ID: <01BCB4C9.DEF42660@difj.qatar.net.qa>
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Mr.Jallow!
Yes,we will take your DISCLAIMER into account ,but we are glad all the =
same that we have someone like you on the ground who has the technical =
knowledge required for an intelligent explanation of what could have =
happened.So, thank you very much and keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:15:26 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Education In Gambia
Message-ID: <34072DDE.DEFC73A9@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Daddy Sang wrote:
> Latir, Please expand more on the schedule change in the educational
> system from O+A Level to what?. Is the new system being pattern after > the Ghanain system.?, What are we calling it?and are our teachers well > prepared in the new system.
I have asked around and this is what I have gathered. In 1992 a New
Education Policy(NEP) was implemented by the government that changed the
elementary/high school system that included the High School Common
Entrance exam, ending with the Ordinary Level(O-level) General
Certificate Examination(GCE) and the further Advanced Level(A-level)
exam. The new system is structured in three levels: elementary, middle
and senior secondary school. At the completion of each level, a West
African Examination Council(WAEC) administered examination is taken.
While I am not sure about the names of these exams, I've been told that
the old Common Entrance exams remains pretty much the same as before.
Instead of continuing on to Forms 1 through 5, students now enter grade
7 after their exams, when they complete primary school, and continue in
Middle School for three years and take an exam (Middle School leaving
exam or something like that) at grade 9. After sitting this exam, those
with the requisite marks enter Senior Secondary School and continue
through grade 12 where they sit some sort of Senior Secondary leaving
exam and obtain a certificate (Senior Secondary Leaving Certificate or
again something like that).
The NEP also has a phasing in process to allow those who continued in
the older Secondary school system to take the "O-level" exam. Under
that system, after four years students take an exam and if successful,
they enter high school at Form 3 or 4 ( I am not sure which) and
continue. Those are the students who will be sitting the "O-level"
exams for the next couple of years.
By the year 2000, the "O-level" examinations will be completely phased
out of the official education system but some schools may still
voluntarily offer them. For example, Marina International School, a
private school in Fajara, will offer its students the same G.C.S.E exam
that students in the U.K. sit (the replacement of "O-levels").
I am not sure about the "A-level" exams. I believe those students who
entered high school at the Form 1 level in 1991, completed their
"O-level" exams last year and have just completed their first year of
Sixth Form will be the last to sit "A-level" exams next year under the
official system.
> I asked these questions because the introduction of a new
> system was done in a "hurried" manner, teachers were not well prepared
> and it met with tremendous opposition from educational circles in
> Ghana. I have consulted with colleauges of mine who are Ghanains about
> these and many questions concerning their system. One the major
> arguments offered was that the old system produced a lot of us who
> speak english very well but never help in developing the country;
> changing the system to encompass all deciplines i.e poly +agri tech
> will produce people who also can help build the country.How this fairs
> in Gambia will remain to be seen.
This is THE issue. I also heard that in Ghana the change was widely
viewed as a failure and that plans are in the works or being implemented
to either revert to or incorporate the older system.
The advantage of the newer system, the NEP, is that it is supposed to
allow those who previously fell through the cracks, not passing exams ,
etc., to venture earlier to semi-professional institutions like
technical schools, instead of the conventional education system they
missed out on, while still receiving the proper educational grounding
that others receive. This, as mentioned earlier, is supposed to
provide the country with a more solid workforce.
I remember in 1993 that some people were saying that the new policy was
really introduced to ease the burden to the school system that did not
have the capacity to retain the national student body at higher levels.
They pointed to the fact that passing marks for the Common Entrance
exams were increasingly rising too high because more primary students
were sitting these exams and there was a lack secondary or high schools.
The effect was that there was even more squeezing out of students from
the conventional education system. The argument was that while the new
policy partially addressed this issue it could be seen as an alternative
for the proper solution of building new schools.
The former regime's development plan, Gateway 2000, included provisions
for the building of new schools but like most of those plans they were
stalled by the politics of the day and ineffective direction that
existed. The AFPRC included these plans in their Programme for
Transition and Rectification after the July 22, 1994 coup and, as can be
seen today with the number of new schools recently constructed, have for
the most part effectively implemented them.
This should make the new policy more effective but there is still the
question about the new government's capacity to operate and maintain
these schools given their added financial burden; whether parents will
have to pay more for their children's education and if there is a big
enough qualified teacher base in the country to keep these schools up to
par.
The disadvantage to the new policy is that it will make it more
difficult for those who complete the conventional system (i.e.. through
Senior Secondary School) to pursue high levels of education, like
university. Under this system, those students who complete school and
wish to enter universities that require "A-levels", in countries like
Ghana, Sierra Leone, Nigeria and the UK, will have to enroll in either a
college or self study programme to receive the required certificate to
enter university. Also, where before you had five years of high school
leading to the universally accepted "O-levels" as a standard certificate
for employment, now you have six years of Middle and Senior Secondary
school that leads to a leaving certificate.
The new system also presents some curriculum problems in that before it
was based on the A level exam and now it will not. Adjustments have to
made to accommodate the extra year among other issues and success will
be gauged on how well teachers conform to these adjustments.
The good news is that all the exams will still be administered and
issued by WEAC so hopefully if universities in these countries make the
appropriate changes in their admissions policies then the blow will not
be too severe.
Of course there are many other questions about this system to which I do
not know the answers, namely what exactly the acknowledged problems were
in Ghana and how they are making their changes. Also I may have missed
some key points about the new system that I am unaware of.
I hope I have given a good enough elaboration here for discussion
purposes.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:13:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: SAJOKONO@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Add a new member please.
Message-ID: <970829171139_-1268241357@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Hello Gambia-l managers please add Yankuba Saidy of Lynwood Washington to the
list. His e-mail address is Ssaidy76@aol.com.
Thank you
Sarjo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 00:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <970830001157_547349822@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Alpha,
Good points. This is exactly the answer for those who wonder what to do if
one goes back home. If we look at the goods and services needed at home, one
can see that by engaging in ventures to address these, one will also be
contributing towards national self sufficiency. E.g, there are a group of
ladies in Gambisara who weave fabric from cotton in the traditional Fula
style, except that they use a commercial loom.This fabric can be used in
it's natural shade or dyed to make garments for domestic use and for export.
The Gambia government has a list of industries they would like to see
developed and high among these are: Any form of agricultural venture, canning
of fruits and vegetables, any form of manufacturing as well as fisheries.
They maintain that if anyone engages in any of these ventures, they will
assist you by limiting the importation of that product in order to increase
your market potential within the country. They will also assist your efforts
at exporting by using their overseas contacts to help market your product.
The way we can address our needs , develop our country and become self
sufficient, is by individuals like us starting ventures that will meet the
every day consumer needs of Gambians, instead of trying to make the old
colonial mold fit.It cannot.
Jabou.
t seems to me that when talking about agricultural development
one
needs to ask; development for whom? Obviously
if the Gambia
continues to be among the producers of cheap agricultural products
we are doomed
WITH OR WITHOUT rains! Our role in this market was not
designed to develop our country. I have a feeling that in our search
for the right path we hardly seem to drop the shackles of the
colonial mentality. Instead of first looking inward we make the
mistake of always looking to the outside. Take the example of
tomatoes. The amount of Tomatoes produced in The Gambia is enough to
cover our annual "tomatoe needs". Due to lack of processing
facilities
most of it gets spoilt before consumed. Can you imagine
the market potential for tomatoe paste in the Gambia alone? The same
goes for onions. Tons of onions get rotten and we end up importing
all these items from God knows where. I'm not saying that we should
only produce for the internal markets
but let's never loose sight of
that in the discussion. The link between agriculture and industry
needs to be reestablished and agriculture will deliver the goods. I'd
say Food first!
And it's not only with food. What is wrong with trying to develop the
textile industry in the Gambia to process the cotton we produce? You
remember the local weavers in the Gambia? Could this "industry" not
be further developped from its present state? The product is there
and some knowhow is already available
so why not exploit it? Do you
remember "contar Bata"? Sometime ago
onfortunately only
for tourists)) Gambians used to produce shoes
leaderware of all sorts. What is wrong with further developping that
industry.
Someone talked about fruit processing on the list. What is wrong with
developping the food processing industry in order to produce mango
juice
bannana
baobab
wonjojuice etc. etc. As a child my grand mother
would take me by the hand and gather plants around Serrekunda which
she would cook and give to the sick ones at home. In a day they would
be on their feet again. There are hearbs of high medicinal values in the
Gambia
plants which could be used as pesticides and insecticides.
What is wrong with cultivating such plants and doing systematic
research on their medicinal values? The list can go on and on.
A comprehensive integrated agricultural programme coupled with an
industry designed to process the agricultural products in line with
the needs of the local
regional and indeed international
markets can only be an asset to the Gambia. Agriculture as practiced in the
Gambia is a
borden simply because it is not designed to meet our needs. Besides
the outcome of it does not go back into the economy but rather finds
its way into the wrong accounts while the producers become poorer.
Education is certainly instrumental in this. If we learn to be
creative and not just blind acceptors of technology
we could
inculcate a sense of creativity in Gambians to build this industry
USING OUR OWN MEANS as a starting point. That's what I meant with
learning to crawl first before dreaming about flying.
Technology
whether information or other forms is desierable in our
development quest. It is my opinion though that technology should be
seen as nothing other than the creative application of science to
meet the needs of society. Gambia is not Taiwan or USA or any other
country. Gambia is Gambia
a country with its own reality in search
of the road to a meaningful development. Let us learn from the
experience of others
but never loose sight of our reality
which in
my view should be the cornerstone of our development strategies. No
matter which road we take
at the end of the day the Gambian people
would use their personal incomes to buy food
look for accomodation
seek medicinal treatment
buy clothes to wear before anything else.
These basic needs must be addressed first if we are in a position to
do so. No farmer would sell his crops at the end of the season and
buy a computer which he cannot use anyway
just to drive around
cyberspace for hours with an empty belly.
regards
Alpha
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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 02:30:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: request for inormation
Message-ID: <970830023020_1781967869@emout05.mail.aol.com>
List members in Finland and Sweden,
l am looking for a source of GSM system cellular phones in the following
brands:
NOKIA and ERICSSON, preferably wholesale as well as a price-list. Your
urgent assistance will be greatly appreciated. Can e-mail me as follows:
Gunjur@aol.com Thanks.
Jabou Joh.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 09:35:03 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <01BCB52A.DC7A7CC0@didb.qatar.net.qa>
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Elakey!
Yes,indeed your respond to Ndow has been received as you can see it =
below.
The Fulla Info. is in either Prof.Diops (African Origin Of Civilisation) =
or (PreColonial Black Africa).I don't recall which one exactly.
Why is your active days coming to an end? Are you going to start going =
to school or you have connection problems..... ?
I really enjoy your analyses esp. the one latest ones (Agric. vs. Tech.) =
so I think unless you really have to reduce your level of participation =
due to something beyond your control,you have to continue contributing =
from time to time.And where is my GRAND?! Is he too old for the =
Information Age or what,does he not want us to WIRE Dippa Kunda to the =
Net?......And what about my school girl,Oumie;does their school not =
still have Internet or E-Mail at least ?
My love, regards and best wishes to Beitillah and the children
Regards Basss!
Mr. Ndow,=20
I think you have raised a very important question: the issue of science
education. It will be difficult in the long run to make serious headway =
in
an increasingly competitive world without a workforce solidly proficient =
in
mathematics and science. But once again, HOW DO YOU PROPOSE to bring =
about
this general "comprehension of scientific principles by a large part of
the populace"? The media, and other fora can help, but it seems to me =
that
the obvious method (and the most reliable) is through teaching in =
schools
(including vocational training).=20
The majority of the schools in the Gambia are publicly funded, and =
they
are found in the country-side. Eventhough the school-going population of
pupils and students in the urban areas is growing quickly, the children =
of
peasants still form the a great majority. Poor harvests, low producer =
price
for their produce, the cost of uniforms, school funds, books, shortages =
of
pencils, chalk, exercise books, class-room furniture, far-away schools,
poorly motivated teachers (there has been recent complains from them in =
the
Gambian press) etc. etc. all militate against the best performance of =
their
children. Somebody (was it not Malnading or Abdou) on this list wrote =
that
we the useless ones on the farm were sent to school. i.e the question of
going to school and learning science and all of it! rested and still =
rests
on a fundamental economic calculation always DONE BY THE FARMERS WELL
BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT WAKES UP IN THE MORNING. So we are back to square
zero; and not only at the primary level. Secondary schools need
well-trained teachers, and well-equipped labs. Most of this, is supposed =
to
be funded by the state! i.e money from the peasants and workers - even =
if
it is borrowed from outside. I am afraid, we are back to agriculture and
industries - before we come any nearer to public investments.
Best Regards,
Sidibeh.
[By the way, I would like to guess that only 9% of us on this list are =
not
paying for someones schoolfees]----------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:24:45 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'Gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Appology to Gambi-L
Message-ID: <01BCB52E.F410DC40@diin.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Gambia-L,
I am terribly sorry for mistakenly sending Modou Sidibeh's private mail to the entire List.
Regards Basss!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:57:55 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Members
Message-ID: <19970830115751.AAA7712@LOCALNAME>
Both Yangkuba Saidy and Mr. Chakys Kone have been added to the list.
We welcome them to Gambia-l and look forward to their contributions.
Yangkuba and Chakys, please send a brief introduction of
yourselves to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Regards
Momodou Camara
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 1997 14:53:44 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: WOMEN-MEDIA: International News Sti
Message-ID: <1364852702.458344840@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 26-Aug-97 ***
Title: WOMEN-MEDIA: International News Still a Male Domain
By Thalif Deen
UNITED NATIONS, Aug 26 (IPS) - Despite an increase in the number
of women journalists throughout the world, international politics
remains the domain of male reports, according to a worldwide
survey of news organisations.
After a study of women journalists in about 100 countries, the
International Women's Media Foundation says there is still a
''false perception that men are more knowledgeable than women on
international news.''
''Because men are often in senior positions in newsrooms, they
often get the best assignments,''the Washington-based Foundation
said in a report released here. The common rationale for not
assiging women to cover international events is the misconception
that ''women only want to cover women's events'' or that ''women
cannot understand complex issues.''
Even when women demonstrate their capacity to perform, they are
not always given the credit they deserve. The study cites the case
of a Zambian woman journalist who turned in a story only to be
told by her male editor: ''This is too good. A woman couldn't
have written this.''
Amy Knox, the author of the report, says there is still a
misconception among many news organisations that women lack the
ability to cover hard news. ''A lot of times women are only
given administrative positions in newspaper offices - either to
work as secretaries or human resources personnel,'' Knox told
IPS.
She said the voices of women are important and they should be
heard in the international news media. Asked whether the
discrimination is common in developed or developing nations, she
said: ''We don't want to identify the countries by pointing
fingers at them. But they are out there.''
The Foundation, which believes that ''the press cannot be truly
free unless women share an equal voice,'' teamed up with the
Women's Foreign Policy Group to examine the role women play in
international news.
The study, sponsored by the Ford Foundation, says that overall,
the number of women in international news are low and 72 percent
of the respondents said that less than half of fellow employees
are women. The respondents indicated an even smaller number of
women have been posted to overseas positions.
Of 220 accredited foreign correspondents at the United Nations
in New York, about 65 are women. In the 48-year history of the
U.N. Correspondents' Association, only six women have held the
position of President.
According to the study, more than half the respondents (53
percent) said that of the foreign reporters employed by their
companies, less than 25 percent were women. ''The under-
representation of women in the field of international news
becomes even more acute at the higher levels of news
organisations,'' it noted. (END/IPS/td/mk/97)
Origin: ROMAWAS/WOMEN-MEDIA/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
May not be reproduced, reprinted or posted to any system or
service outside of the APC networks, without specific
permission from IPS. This limitation includes distribution
via Usenet News, bulletin board systems, mailing lists,
print media and broadcast. For information about cross-
posting, send a message to <online@ips.org>. For
information about print or broadcast reproduction please
contact the IPS coordinator at <online@ips.org>.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 15:49:30 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fro your info.
Message-ID: <3408794A.1625@iglou.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Fellow list members:
For those of you who might be interested, you can get recitations of the
Holy Quran from this site. Just go to your browser and type
******** islamic.org *******
Boom... you are on your way to getting the translation of the 114 Suras
of the Holly Quran. You also will need to get the RealPlayer Plus which
you can download from the same site. Once you get the palyer installed,
you are set for listening to the Holly Quaran as you work on your PC.
Its wonderful, and I'm sure most of us will take advantage of it and
become masters of the Holly Quran.
Happy long weekend to you all.
GOD BLESS!
PA-MAMBUNA, Lexington.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 01:40:19 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: "Gambia L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: VB: Which Way Forward (Part 2 of 2)
Message-ID: <199708310606.IAA28345@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
----------
> Frĺn: Momodou S Sidibeh <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
> Till: dekat@itis.com
> Ämne: SV: Which Way Forward (Part 2 of 2)
> Datum: den 30 augusti 1997 19:51
>
> Before anything, I would like to explain the reasons behind Bass' earlier
> apology. One of the servers of Stockholm's main ISP (Internet Service
> Provider) broke down from around noon Monday to the early hours of
> Wednesday. We could receive some mail but all of those we posted suffered
> delays of up to 36 hours. Then it happened again on Thursday, but for a
> much shorter period. From the discussions going on, I could read answers
or
> responses to original messages (some) of which never came through the
> wires. So I wrote to Momodou camara, and then to Bass much later, to make
> enquiries. I am convinced now that the connections are back to normal.
> [Fellow Stockholmers may have noted the lead column in Metro on Wednesday
> morning]. Science, is always there, you know. But technology could fail
us,
> sometimes at critical moments - afterall, its run by humans.
>
> Before subjecting both parts 1 and 2 of the above subject to a critical
> appraisal, I would like to restate what I have been talking about and
what
> I have not been disagreeing over.
> 1. THAT AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT PRECEEDED INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT (AS
> DISTINCT MODES OF PRODUCTION) EVERYWHERE THROUGHOUT HISTORY (EXCEPT
PERHAPS
> IN GREENLAND); AND THAT (IN MODERN ECONOMIES) INVESTMENTS IN AGRICULTURE
> DOES NOT HAVE TO (IN FACT SHOULD NOT) EXCLUDE INVESTMENT IN OTHER AREAS
OF
> THE ECONOMY, SUCH AS INFRASRTRUCTURE, INDUSTRIES, AND INFORMATION
> TECHNOLOGY, PERIOD.
>
> 2. THAT GAMBIA SHOULD EVEN NOW (THIS POINT IN TIME) FOCUS MORE ON
> DEVELOPING ITS AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTIVITY (AND HERE I MEAN EVEN THE
> PROCESSING OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS) THAN IT SHOULD ON INFORMATION
> TECHNOLOGY.
>
> On the first point, I will simply stand to be corrected. I see no need to
> discuss that. But on the second point, there are quite a number of
reasons
> why I believe that which is stated. But also because so far, no
convincing
> counter argument has come forth. I also imagine (very optimistically)
that
> the people of Kartong should be part of this discussion; but I am very
> convinced that that imagination can be realistic if I should try to
> convince them to cultivate oysters (you know, the best oysters in the
> Gambia are found there) and barracuda for export, rather than building a
> factory (which our famous dust should not penetrate) for the production
of
> laptops the components of which should be imported.
> Naturally, the argumentation needs modification in that a process has
been
> identified. To make this discussion shorter than it may take, i will
simply
> argue against those assumptions, compounding a number of variables, which
> have formed the basis of the proposed hypothesis of our way forward.
Broken
> down very crudely (taking in both parts 1 and 2), the formula looks like
> this:
>
> ATTITUDE + SKILLS DEVELOPMENT (EDUCATION) + PRIVATE INVESTMENTS +
POLITICAL
> STABILTIY = SILICON VALLEY.
>
> (If I have left out any of the variables, it is simply unintentional.
> Anyone can in that case add the missing X or Xs; and since addition is
> involved, it does not matter in which order the variables appear).
> Simply explained the formula reads like this: If we put our minds to the
> task at hand and believe in ourselves and know what we want to do
> (attitude), while we develop a population of software gurus and skilled
> workers (education) by borrowing vocational training schemes such as
> obtains in Singapore; and if we can attract foreing investment (plus
> homegrown capital, assumedly) in a climate of political stability, then
we
> can build something which could look like Silicon Valley. Here, we must
> remember that The Valley has its own kind of hybrid culture. I have no
> problems with the variables. I mean that if you come from Gambia - where
> our surnames are "poor" - you could not argue against promises of
pastures
> all painted in billions of greenbacks, as long as you are willing to do
all
> that is honourable (hard work) to acquire them. This is a promise of a
> rich, fast and fat life, and that is what i want, and that is what we all
> want. It is the assumptions from which the variables are extracted which
I
> do not agree with; and these are what I will write about now, and I will
> take issue with them one at a time:
>
> 1. Agriculture is important to the Gambia not only either because a large
> percentage of the population is engaged in farming and/or fishing, or
> because it accounts for 22% (1995 figures, Vision 2020 document) of GDP.
It
> is also very important because the country is not endowed with natural
> resources such as minerals and profitable deposits of natural gas or
crude
> oil (as far as we know now) - the sort of things which could have earlier
> on dictated investment in industries such as petrochemicals or steel,
even
> if we had to borrow. Like many other African countries, we have little
else
> to choose from, in contrast with say, Malaysia.
>
> 2. It has been written "I've come to the conclusion that we' ve let
> ourselves be fooled for 30 years into thinking that we can attain
economic
> progress by focusing on agriculture". We have indeed not been fooled.
Given
> our status at independence, with the small amount of university graduates
> we had (does anyone know how many we had), and given the factors
mentioned
> above, and also given that we had BEEN FORCED into cash-crop (groundnut)
> production for more than 100 years, we had no choice but to continue
> farming in order to avoid starvation, and to keep our administration
> afloat. What we failed to do was to use
> agric. production as a means towards industrial development; and we
failed
> in this, among many other reasons, by formulating wrong policies and
> consequently, even wrongly implementing wrong policies inpite of relative
> political stability for fifteen years.
>
> 3. It is true that the countries referred to as the Asian Tigers (Taiwan,
> Hong-Kong, South Korea, Singapore) have made impressive economic progress
> in recent years. But to say that the "key behind almost all these
countries
> has been enlightened and focused economic policies that are geared to
> plugging them fully into the emerging information technologies" is simply
> incorrect. All of these countries were recording impressive economic
growth
> well before the term Information Technology was coined or even before
> personal computers became personal. And this realisation is the core of
my
> argument. Let us take Taiwan as a case.
>
> But before that, let me put things in perspective by stating that the two
> most important prerequisites for the development of personal computers is
> the microprocessor and the computer program. Without the former, the
latter
> would have no market in which to expand. The first microprocessor, called
> the 4004, was launched by Intel in 1971.
>
> It was in 1958 that a state institution responsible for trade and foreign
> exchange in Taiwan adopted policies geared towards shifting emphasis from
> import substitution to export promotion. it was then that the Taiwanese
> government embarked on policies enhancing trade liberalization even as it
> devalued the Yuan. Throughout the 50s its exports were principally
> agricultural. For instance, SALT, SUGAR, AND RICE were its chief exports
in
> 1954, 80% of which consisted of the last two. But because the population
> was so great and land scarce, the focus of agricultural production was
> diverted towards growing products that did not require as much land as
rice
> cultivation, yet were labour intensive and needed only little capital.
i.e
> they exploited their comparative advantage. They cultivated new export
> crops such as mushrooms (which were grown all the year round), eels and
> ONIONS (destined for Japan), snails (for France), and asparagus. It was
a
> process of gradual acumulation that until 1962 relied heavily on foreign
> aid and capital inflows (for 30 - 50 % of investments), while at the same
> time encouraging domestic savings. Up to 1959 the import of all items
> classed as luxury goods was prohibited.
> Naturally, investments in light industries such as the production of
shoes,
> textiles, umbrellas, and toys were encouraged. The picture is made lucid
by
> these figures:
> In 1955, the share of agric. goods and processed agric.goods amounted to
> 86.9% of exports, while industrial products accounted for 10.4%. In 1984
> (nearly 30 years later) the share of agric. goods and that of industrial
> goods were 6.1% and 93.9% respectively. [source: Taiwan Statistical
> yearbook]. These indicate that there was a gradual process of
> transformation, and in that process both industry and agric. developed in
a
> parallel manner until the former's share of exports exceeded that of the
> latter . During the 50s and 60s great effort was spent in irrigation
> schemes, developing improved hybrids of different crops, prevention and
> control of livestock diseases and pests, improving the sanitary
conditions
> of farmers in the country-side and even supporting peasant organisations.
> Export revenues from agric. was largely ploughed back into the economy by
> investing in more medium size industries (chemicals, electric appliances,
> kitchenware, agric. machinery), and steadily improving living standards.
> The focus shifts from agriculture to industry through a process of
> development. Indeed Professor Rong-I Wu of Chung Hsing university defines
> economic development in characteristic terms: the process of
transformation
> from a primarily agricultural economy to a primarily non-agricultural
one.
> Taiwan records its economic take-off from 1963, eight years before the
> microprocessor was built, and 17 years before computers became a
household
> name anywhere.
>
> This is the general picture that evolved in Malaysia as well as in South
> Korea. Certainly there were differences especially in industrial
structure.
> Substantial portions of the export sectors of these countries were owned
by
> transnational companies. in the case of South Korea and Singapore 30 and
> 70% repectively. In 1980 Hong Kong, Singapore, and South Korea each
> exported $1 billion of engineering goods to the U.S. Hong Kong and south
> Korea also sold $1billion worth of clothing and footwear (I.E PROCESSED
> LEATHER AND COTTON) to the U.S
>
> Malaysia unlike these others, has an abundance of natural resources.
> Because it has excess supplies of crude oil and natural gas it was able
to
> invest in heavy industry since independence. It exported rubber, wood,
> textiles, air-conditioners, electronic and electrical appliances. Some of
> these industries owned by Taiwanese investors. But unlike Nigeria, it did
> no let its agriculture go to sleep. Malaysia accounts for 40% of total
> world production of rubber; and its production of wood, PEPPER(!), and
tin
> is the largest in the world. Nigeria used to be the world's largest
> producer of palm oil. But not any longer. Malaysian R&D has seen to it
that
> this country controls 2/3 of world production now. They have not only
> produced soaps and exotic shampoo from palm oil, but are now developing
> MOTOR ENGINE FUEL FROM IT!
>
> Well all of this just to show that Information Technology is the exciting
> tail end of a process that has been going on in all these countries for
the
> past thirty odd years even before the Gambia was born in 1965. In Gambia
> there is a serious distortion in this process. You have a large and
growing
> service sector that is not dependent on any significant domestic
industry.
> That was why when the infamous travel advice of 1994 hit our tourist
> industry, thousands of workers and their dependents suffered
immeasurably.
> Agricultural production ought to be increased in order that we may be
able
> to finance indsutrial manufacturing. [With a canning and packaging
factory
> we could feed the whole world with pre-cooked 'benachin' - and the whole
> industry could be run by women. Just warm it in the micro oven for 5
> minutes, and voila! the days lunch for over-stressed Americans and
> Europeans]. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE MUST NOT PREPARE FOR THE 21ST
> CENTURY AND THE EXPLOSIVE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY REVOLUTION THAT IS JUST
> BEGINNING. MOREOVER, THIS REVOLUTION IS SO FAST THAT BY THE TIME WE IN
THE GAMBIA ARE READY TO PLAY OUR PART, THINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN SO
TRANSFORMED THAT SILICON MAY JUST BE THE VALLEY WE OUGHT NOT CHOOSE AS A
MODEL TO EMULATE.
>
> Have a great week-end reading, and
> Good-bye.
> Modou S. Sidibeh
>
>
>
------------------------------
End of GAMBIA-L Digest 83
************************* |
| Momodou |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:50:04
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:05:46 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FAO/GIEWS Sahel Report No 3/97 (TEXT)
Message-ID: <3401F3A9.8758245@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations
SAHEL WEATHER AND CROP SITUATION
1997
Global Information and Early Warning System on food and agriculture
Update as of 20 August 1997
Unfavourable crop prospects in The Gambia, Mauritania and Senegal
but growing conditions satisfactory so far in other Sahelian countries
The dry spell which started in mid-July over most parts of Senegal,
The Gambia and Mauritania persisted in late July and early August over
most parts of the centre and the north of Senegal and over western
Mauritania. Following dry weather during the second dekad of July,
precipitation resumed in the south of Senegal during the third dekad but
remained limited or absent in the centre and the north. During the first
dekad of August, rains again decreased over most part of the country,
remaining generally below 15mm except in the south. They resumed in
mid-August, notably in the west. Substantial rains have been registered
on 14, 16 and 18 August by the meteorological stations of the centre
while they remained sparse or absent in the north (except in Matam area
where a rainfall of about 35mm has been registered on 15 August). The
satellite imagery for the second dekad of August (from 10 to 20 August)
confirms that precipitation has been more intense over the western part
of the country (see attached last dekads images and film of the rainy
season). In Mauritania, following mostly dry weather in mid or late July
(except in the extreme south-east), some rains have been registered in
early and mid-August in the south and south-east while the weather
remained dry in the west. In The Gambia, rains resumed in late July
after the dry spell of mid-July but precipitation remained limited.
Countrywide rainfall was reported on 20 August. The Government has
declared a partial crop failure during a meeting with the donor
community on 14 August.
In the affected areas, millet and sorghum crops which had been
planted in June/early July failed or have been severely affected by the
dry spell. In all the three countries, assessment missions have been
organized by the governments. These missions, to be completed within the
next week, will provide useful indications on current crop conditions
and possible needs for assistance to affected farmers, notably for the
recession and off-season crops which are normally planted from November
as well as for the livestock sector which has been affected by poor
pastures. Replantings of coarse grains could be undertaken following the
rains which resumed in mid-August in the centre and the north of Senegal
and in Mauritania. However, only short cycle varieties may have a chance
to reach maturity if the rainy season continues to late October. In any
case, crop prospects are poor and below average harvests are anticipated
in Senegal, The Gambia and Mauritania.
In the other parts of the Sahel, growing conditions remained more
favourable. Rains are widespread and quite abundant over all producing
areas of Chad, reaching northern parts of the Sahelian zone in
mid-August. Rains remained also generally widespread over the main
producing areas of Mali, Burkina Faso and Niger. They were quite
abundant in late July and early August over the south and centre of Mali
and in late July over Burkina Faso. In Guinea Bissau, following reduced
rains in mid-July, precipitation became abundant in late July and
remained widespread in August. In Cape Verde, plantings are underway
following the start of the rains in late July. GIEWS is continuously
monitoring the situation in collaborations with national services and
information systems. The system will issue updates on the situation, as
necessary.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:23:24 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <3402846C.2EB8@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi LatJor!
Thanks for your input. You have raised the question of education in
the agriculture/technology equation. Before going further, I=B4d like to
point out that I believe that we should first decide our priorities and
tailor our education to make whichever choice we make work. This would
be a more effective way of tackling our problems than the other way
round. In this connection, you have identified the first element that
needs to be tackled in the technology issue - science education. There
are many more issues that need to be identified. The same goes for
agriculture. It is only in identifying the various factors connected to
our choices, identifying problems and finding solutions to them that we
can hope to succeed.
One of the points you raised was the understanding of basic scientific
principles to be able to utilise technology effectively. While I agree
with you that it is necessity, we shold be careful not to take it out of
proportion. When we talk about technology in The Gambia, we are not
talking about (at this point) maybe building planes or other advanced
forms of technology. We are talking about technology that suits our
budget and needs and which can help us build an industrial base for the
country. We should understand that when we talk about investing in
technology, we should also talk about investing in training to help
those who have to work with the technology. We should however not be
talking about investing in training for the rest of the country. If in
this connection we were talking about investing in the latest technology
to start a radio production plant for example, it is only those who have
to work with the technology - designers, factory workers etc., to
produce the radios who have to be trained. The consumers of the product
do not need science education to operate the radios. If we were to
invest in making computer programs, there are many Gambian computer
programmers. If they are not enough, we can invest in training some more
or import some from our neighbours. There are many ways to counter the
educational deficiencies. I think the only bad thing we can do as a
nation is to concentrate on our illiteracy level and steadfastly decide
that we cannot invest in technology or industrialisation just because of
that.
Another point you raised was the time in which The Gambia should be
transformed into an industrialised nation. I think it is impossible to =
transform the country into an industrialised nation overnight if not
only for the educational reasons you mentioned but for the financial.
What some of us are advocating is a review of the concentration of all
our efforts into agriculture at the expense of industry. If an emphasis
is placed on the encouragement of industrialisation and the innovative
spirit of Gambians, I=B4m sure we can achieve something. I might detract
here a bit but I can=B4t help remembering some stories of innovation I
read in the Gambian press. I can remember reading about a school boy who
designed and made a telephone out of waste from old radios etc. to link
his room in his large compound with his mother=B4s so that his mother
would not have to walk the distance to wake him up. I can also remeber
reading about a GTTI student who designed a miniature bus and donated it
to GPTC. The bus was operational. There are many more stories. If we had
encouraged the telephone guy for example, invested in his training,
helped him with loans to set up a factory to produce telephones, Gamtel
might be able to buy some from his company and not from Alcatel (if
Gamtel are still buying from them) and we might become telephone
exporters. =
This is the kind of technological investment we are talking about. I
believe that there are many innovators in The Gambia. The only thing
that is lacking is the commitment to direct them in a way that would be
beneficial to The Gambia. I would like to point out the fact that in all
the talk about investing in technology, I am not talking about getting
the government to do all the financing. There are Gambians and others
who have money to invest. If they are properly motivated, they would
invest.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Gabriel Ndow wrote:
> =
> Greetings:
> To add to the very stimulating subject on what needs to be
> prioritized (Agric./Technology/etc), I wonder if perhaps we are
> missing the all important issue of science education. I do not
> know how we can utilize various technologies effectively (be it
> in the growing of food crops or the acquisition of information
> across cyberspace) without a good understanding of basic
> scientific principles.
> The debate I discern is centered around how best/quickly gambia
> can be transfromed into an industrailized nation. In a nation
> where illitracy is still high and worse where scientific literacy
> is probably between 2-3 percent (my speculation), we may have to
> reconsider what our priorities ought to be.
> While technology can be looked at as the application of
> scientific principles, the principles themselves ought to be
> comprehended by a large part of the populace. It is only then
> that we will begin to see innovative ideas and methods coming
> into manifestation from the general populace.
> =
> LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 21:21:21 +0100
From: "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
Message-ID: <B0000004795@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Folks & Habib,
To comment on the above, a well trained extension staff to assist our
farmers..this actually does exist..the State Dept. of Agriculture or
previously Ministry of Agric. is the biggest in the nation with over 1000
extension workers providing the link between Dept. of Agricultral Services
and the National Agric. Research Institute on one hand and the
farmers..this has however failed to meet expectations..originally this was
used to employ political supporters and party loyalists who soon could not
be fired and did not have to work..mostly they were illiterate..then in the
80s, pressure from USAID and other donors requiring extension workers to be
certificated from the Gambia College School of Agric. resulted in massive
pass through the system or Allowed to Pass of the same folks..at the
expense of Advanced Level students who could get the Ministry to employ
them...(a situation that the new NARI Director General is reputed to be
moving from)..lately these
folks i.e the extension workers are dominantly Islamic fundamentalists
preaching more religion than Agric.,
they are still un-fire-able..basically I am saying..that we have been there
and done that..to no avail..
my study of our and mostly subsaharan African Govt. machinery and our
recent experience leads me to conclude
that Govt. investing heavily again will not solve the problem..what we need
is to review why the sytem continues to fail..I must add that self
perpetuating donor expatriates have also been part of the problem..when
asked to identify and propose solutions usually with lucrative 2 year
multi-million dalasi contracts, they have excelled in creating employment
for their colleaugues and pushing their proteges ..I repeat the system will
continue to fail because mainly because of attitude..when incompentents are
appointed..what can you
expect..most of you guys in the disapora know exactly why you felt you had
to leave ...to progress and prosper..when our better ones leave..the mass
of the rest are the those that mostly have next to no choice..we do have
good people but without a radical change in attitude and policy..there will
be no progress..we have to set limited and achievable targets..like 500
underground wells per year @ a cost of say D15,000 = D7.5 million per
annum...not food self -sufficiency in 5 years..heard it said it done it..no
avail..grandoise schemes are eye-brow raisers..we need simple believable
objectives to ensure that our peoples dis-belief and skepticism is
overcome..
if I remember there was a well digging project that dug wells for the farms
of most of the directors, perm. sec.s and ex-ministers, and millions were
mis-appropriated...let us keep the rest of our meagre resources in
Education and Health, and see if we can utilise private initiative, not
indulge our public servants in another orgy of waste...
our problem is the lack of performance and the fact there is no reward or
penalty for perfarmance or the lack thereof..we need to set targets,
achieve them or failing that ..find out why and take appropriate action
for example..take road and highway maintenance..unless there is an
important state function or something by the Head of state, rough rideon
potholes, etc.. then quick patch work and back to usual..what about a
Maintenance schedule, preventive maintenace etc..and there are real
professionals in charge..somehow..they have lost their initiative and any
zeal.over the decade or two they have been director or so...but who
cares..people have stopped noticing ages ago..when I reach this point, I
will leave too for my own sake..
so much for now..got to get back to work..all comments welcome
Bye and Peace
pmj
----------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 01:02:21 +0200
From: Ylva Kamperin <leekamp@algonet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <34020EFD.7475@algonet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Modou Jallow wrote:
> =
> Andrea and others....,
> =
> I suppose you alrady beat me in commenting on this clown's racial remar=
ks.
> Whatever he thinks he is doing, it is not funny. He can either contribu=
te
> to a meaningful discussion or go back and hide in whatever hole he came=
> from. Such "disgraceful" remarks must not be accepted on this list.
> =
> Who is this clown anyway????
> =
> Regards,
> Moe S. Jallow
> =
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D
> mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
------This is a special message to Modou "torstein" Jallow.
I maybe xenophobic but not a "sheltered clown" like you.Get off your
finger and smell the real world.I resent your insulting remarks.I happen
to live in nothern europe were race counts even some don't talk ab=F3ut
it. I don't have anything against the bearer of the message but ask you
to try and confirm it. =
Why can't you debate the "xenophobic" statement that I made, than been
an immature fool that you are (calling me names). Is this man a holy man
you worship or are you awed by europeans and have to prove your love.
I think you better stick to your story telling and giving football
results. It is a shame that you bear the Jallow name.
SORRY TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE LIST INCLUDING TORSTEIN.
=
If I crawled from a hole, then that hole is called Bakau and is in the
Gambia. Can't you bear to see anybody doubt a european.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 19:09:14 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Education in The Gambia
Message-ID: <3402109A.6E19693@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It has come to my attention that part of the New Education Plan that
began a few years ago includes abolishing the sitting of Ordinary and
Advanced Level G.C.E. exams as a requirement in the secondary school
system.
I learned that this year's "O" level exam will be the last as will next
year's "A" levels.
I was also told that in Ghana, a similar change was made with little
success and that they are planning to revert to/incorperate the older
system.
If this is true, how wise are we to continue with these plans? Given
the fact that we still lack universities, won't this change make it more
difficult for Gambian students in general to pursue higher levels of
education abroad in countries like the United Kingdom, Sierra Leone,
Ghana and Nigeria?
If you have more detailed information, corrections or views please share
them.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:46:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: iLatir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Education in The Gambia
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970826004546.8516C-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 00:49:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970826004657.8516D-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Susan Hatch has been added to the group. Welcome and please
send a brief introduction to the group.
Sen mail to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dekat (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970826061522.8553A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 02:57:14 -0700
From: latjor ndow <ndukuman@avana.net>
To: gndow@spelman.edu
Subject: Re: Dekat
Greetings Buharry:
In your posting,you stated:
>Before going further, I=B4d like to point out that I believe that we >shou=
ld first decide our priorities and tailor our education to make >whichever =
choice we make work. This would be a more effective way of >tackling our pr=
oblems than the other way round.
In my view, the process of deciding our priorities is itself a
scientific process. How to determine what is a priority requires who
ever is doing the determination to critically discern what the needs of
the nation are; the resources available (human and otherwise);
Quantifiable (measurable) indicators of these needs; etc...
I fear that if we select out priorities first and then, and only then
"tailor our (science) education" accordingly, we may become like the
three blind men who were brought before an elephant and each asked to
describe what was in front of them. One touched the tail and said it was
a rope (a priority), another touched one of the elephant's feet and
claimed it was a tree trunk (another priority)- I think you get my
drift.
The issue if priorities for the gambia is a national issue and cannot be
placed in any other context. If your discussions were centered around a
business venture in the technology field, then why discuss national
priorities? If on the other hand you want to discuss national priorities
then surely the rest of the gambian populace ought to have their say as
to what they consider to be a priority - tinkering with computer memory
chips or developing organic farming techniques. Providing them with the
right tools to make the right choices is the object of science
education.
On an other matter, what if the hypothetical radio production plant
collapsed the very first year of its existence for whatever reason? Will
the workers be able to adapt their newly learnt skills elsewhere?=20
Concerning the innovative spirit. Let me say that no single group have a
monopoly of it. But the likelihood of a greater number of innovators in
any given group rises accordingly with the group's level of literacy and
familiarity with scientific principles and practices.
Lest there is any confusion, I am also an advocate like you and others
for technological investments in the gambia. I just do not see how
science literacy (as well as general ed.) is not given the highest
priority, if we wish to see new industries take root and succeed.
LatJor
-------------------
GASTECH, INC. (Gambian Science and Technology Corp.)
3700 Buford Hwy, #58
Atlanta, GA 30329
E-mail: gndow@spelman.edu ndukuman@avana.net
LatJor
> The debate I discern is centered around how best/quickly gambia
> can be transfromed into an industrailized nation.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 06:16:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: science/language (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970826061611.8553B-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 05:37:56 -0700
From: latjor ndow <ndukuman@avana.net>
To: gndow@spelman.edu
Subject: science/language
Greetings:
Laura, you seem to discern (and rightly so) that there is a definite
relationship between language and science. I shall elaborate on this
matter in the body of this posting.
>From Laura...
>Teaching, learning, and applying science entails a completely
>different school of thought than doing the same for literature and
>history.
I am not so sure of this. Perhaps the reason why a larger proportion of
students do better in literature as opposed to science is because the
pedagogy of the former focuses on cenceptual thinking from the very
onset of a child's education. So much so that by the time the child goes
to college he/she comes equipped with the necessary tools to do well in
this field. On the other hand, early science education focuses more on
content and less on concepts and the processes of scientific inquiry.
This is not only true in gambia but in the U.S. as well. I am often
amazed at the responses I get when I ask students to describe their
observations during a physics lab exercise. The ability to observe and
accurately describe physical phenomena is a problem among students in
these two seemingly disparate nations. While the U.S. can afford (at
least in the short term) to register low scores in science education we
cannot. After all the U.S. can always import science whizzes from abroad
to keep them ahead in scientific innovations and technological advances.
It has the resources to do so (E.g. recall Einstein and the rest of the
Manhattan Project folks from the Heildelberg Univ; and the rest of us
who so eagerly want to join - smile...). It also has a far more larger
population to pool from than our 1 million or so. Since we use the
methods and models of the West (their textbooks and gadgets) to teach
science in the gambia, I think studying their own problems in this area
would be instructive.
Laura...
>Can science be taught in wollof? Are there words
>for scientific concepts?
>From Bassss...
>We don't have to have a Wollof word for OXYGEN before we can teach it >to our children.All we need to do is to take it exactly as it is in >English(and its not even an English word) and define it for them and >explain its functions in Wollof.
While I agree with you that we can do this, the truth of the matter is
that we DO have words along WITH their conceptual meanings in Wolof,
Mandinka, etc... to teach science effectively. Here are a few from the
thousands of words available (in this case Wolof): (Note: Because some
of the characters are not supported by this mailtool, I have resorted to
just using the regular alphabetic script.)
MATHEMATICAL CONCEPTS
Point, line, plane = tombe, redda, maasale
Surface, volume = yaatu-yaatu, ombak
Angle = Puhtel, Kon (n as in onion)
Adjacent angle = puhtel boka wet
Triangle = Netti kon
Side = wet
Summit = Puj
Diameter = Buum diga
Cartesian Coordinates = Hameekaay i Decartes
Origin = Cosaan
Newton's Approximation Method = Wor ndombo u Newton
CONCEPTS IN PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY
Units = natu(waay)
Speed = gawkesel
Acceleration = hiirel
Force = Doole
Work = Ligey
Power = Katanhef; ngora
Isothermal surface = yatuwaay em taangaay
Thermal resistance = Degerlu tangaay
Gas = giil; ngelaw
Viscosity of gases = ratahaayub ngelaw yi
Neutron = yennuwul si
Proton = fep saalal
Photon = fep leer
Quantum energy = katan fernientu katan!
-----------
Habib...
>BUT the big question is do we have resources to do that . I think the >answer is no not now
Perhaps we should begin by identifying what resources we are so lacking
of that this cannot be done now.
Personally, my understanding of scientific concepts was greatly deepened
when several years ago I began to teach myself wolof at a more deeper
and formal level. Suddenly, the mystification surrounding science began
to evaporate. It made me bolder. More daring to venture in directions
that I may otherwise not have ventured in.
Science after all is in the business of knowing. Seeking to answer the
many questions humanity poses from our daily living experiences. The
standard definition (taken from the Greek by way of the Latin) of
science is "to know"; to know what principles, physical laws govern
various phenomena. I however prefer to define science as 'Ham-ham'(or
Xam-xam) (Wolof) = "to know-to know". I find this doubling of the word
'Ham' (to know) very interesting. It is not enough to just know, which
is the accumulation of information (from external sources I might add),
but to know that you know. Or to know how and why you know. The process
of reaching this summit requires a multifaceted approach to One finds an
allusion to this in our great repository of scientific information and
teachings - the proverbs!(I would be glad to discuss this later)
Su ham don jiitu recu du am = Had know be leading their would be no
regrets
Ham sa bopa mo gen ku la ko wax = To know for yourself is better than
being told
Am a gen, Mun a gen, Ham a gen = Better to have, better to be patient,
better to know
This is wisdom. This is science.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:39:35 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
Cc: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <340330F7.1BCD@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi LatJor!
Thanks for your input. You have raised the question of
education in the agriculture/technology equation. Before going further,
I=B4d like to point out that I believe that we should first decide our
priorities and tailor our education to make whichever choice we make
work. This would be a more effective way of tackling our problems than
the other way round. In this connection, you have identified the first
element that needs to be tackled in the technology issue - science
education. There are many more issues that need to be identified. The
same goes for agriculture. It is only in identifying the various factors
connected to our choices, identifying problems and finding solutions to
them that we can hope to succeed.
One of the points you raised was the understanding of basic
scientific principles to be able to utilise technology effectively.
While I agree with you that it is necessity, we shold be careful not to
take it out of proportion. When we talk about technology in The Gambia,
we are not talking about (at this point) maybe building planes or other
advanced
forms of technology. We are talking about technology that suits our
budget and needs and which can help us build an industrial base for the
country. We should understand that when we talk about investing in
technology, we should also talk about investing in training to help
those who have to work with the technology. We should however not be
talking about investing in training for the rest of the country. If in
this connection we were talking about investing in the latest technology
to start a radio production plant for example, it is only those who have
to work with the technology - designers, factory workers etc., to
produce the radios who have to be trained. The consumers of the product
do not need science education to operate the radios. If we were to
invest in making computer programs, there are many Gambian computer
programmers. If they are not enough, we can invest in training some more
or import some from our neighbours. There are many ways to counter the
educational deficiencies. I think the only bad thing we can do as a
nation is to concentrate on our illiteracy level and steadfastly decide
that we cannot invest in technology or industrialisation just because of
that.
Another point you raised was the time in which The Gambia should
be transformed into an industrialised nation. I think it is impossible
to =
transform the country into an industrialised nation overnight if not
only for the educational reasons you mentioned but for the financial.
What some of us are advocating is a review of the concentration of all
our efforts into agriculture at the expense of industry. If an emphasis
is placed on the encouragement of industrialisation and the innovative
spirit of Gambians, I=B4m sure we can achieve something. I might detract
here a bit but I can=B4t help remembering some stories of innovation I
read in the Gambian press. I can remember reading about a school boy who
designed and made a telephone out of waste from old radios etc. to link
his room in his large compound with his mother=B4s so that his mother
would not have to walk the distance to wake him up. I can also remeber
reading about a GTTI student who designed a miniature bus and donated it
to GPTC. The bus was operational. There are many more stories. If we had
encouraged the telephone guy for example, invested in his training,
helped him with loans to set up a factory to produce telephones, Gamtel
might be able to buy some from his company and not from Alcatel (if
Gamtel are still buying from them) and we might become telephone
exporters. =
This is the kind of technological investment we are talking
about. I believe that there are many innovators in The Gambia. The only
thing that is lacking is the commitment to direct them in a way that
would be beneficial to The Gambia. I would like to point out the fact
that in all the talk about investing in technology, I am not talking
about getting the government to do all the financing. There are Gambians
and others who have money to invest. If they are properly motivated,
they would invest.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Gabriel Ndow wrote:
> =
> Greetings:
> To add to the very stimulating subject on what needs to be
> prioritized (Agric./Technology/etc), I wonder if perhaps we are
> missing the all important issue of science education. I do not
> know how we can utilize various technologies effectively (be it
> in the growing of food crops or the acquisition of information
> across cyberspace) without a good understanding of basic
> scientific principles.
> The debate I discern is centered around how best/quickly gambia
> can be transfromed into an industrailized nation. In a nation
> where illitracy is still high and worse where scientific literacy
> is probably between 2-3 percent (my speculation), we may have to
> reconsider what our priorities ought to be.
> While technology can be looked at as the application of
> scientific principles, the principles themselves ought to be
> comprehended by a large part of the populace. It is only then
> that we will begin to see innovative ideas and methods coming
> into manifestation from the general populace.
> =
> LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:08:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASJanneh@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: ASJanneh@aol.com
Subject: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
Message-ID: <970826080835_-999770718@emout18.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.6576.emout18.mail.aol.com.872597314"
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.6576.emout18.mail.aol.com.872597314
Content-ID: <0_6576_872597315@emout18.mail.aol.com.2429>
Content-type: text/plain
Gambia-l:
Attached is a story on a crucial ECOWAS meeting on the political stalemate in
Sierra Leone. I did an interview with VOA's English Service to Africa last
night on the situation. The new dimension seems to be a more assertive role
by the US to re-establish the civilian regime of Tejan Kabbah.
What are your views on reversing the coup in Sierra Leone? Nigeria, Guinea
and The Gambia appear to be in the forefront of those countries that support
the use of force to dislodge Koroma's military junta. Leaders of all three
countries (and six more West African countries) came to power by force
themselves.
What role, if any, should the U.S. play in efforts to resolve the crisis in
Sierra Leone?
Comments on other aspects of the matter welcome.
Salaam!
Amadou Scattred Janneh
(now with African & African-American Studies, The University of Tennessee)
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.6576.emout18.mail.aol.com.872597314
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name="LEONE"
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By Matthew Tostevin =
=0D
LAGOS, Aug 22 (Reuter) - With dialogue having so far failed to reverse a =
coup in Sierra Leone, diplomats say it is decision time for the nations o=
f West Africa. =
=0D
Nigerian military strongman General Sani Abacha, hosting the Economic Com=
munity of West African States (ECOWAS) summit from August 27-29, is keen =
to make the threat of military action to overturn the coup look serious, =
but most of his counterparts are more cautious. =
=0D
``The choice is a difficult one, and it is this summit which will have to=
make it, to risk approving the military option or appear to be giving in=
,'' said one West African diplomat close to the summit. =
=0D
``Even if they only choose a stricter enforcement of sanctions, it would =
give the junta more time to breathe and let them believe they are getting=
away with it.'' =
=0D
Sensing the possibility of military action, coup leader Johnny Paul Korom=
a and his rebel allies, who this week imposed a curfew in Freetown, are o=
n edge. =
=0D
The United Nations and the Organisation of African Unity have condemned t=
he coup, and even postal services have been cut. =
=0D
But after a three-month taste of power, Koroma's men give every sign of p=
reparing for a fight rather than to give power back to elected civilian P=
resident Ahmad Tejan Kabbah, who was ousted on May 25 after barely a year=
in power. =
=0D
``The ECOWAS leaders are aware that time is not on their side so after th=
e summit's decision, coercion will definitely come to force to flush out =
Koromah and his junta since all dialogue has failed,'' said Nigerian Plan=
ning Minister Ayo Ogunlade, also in charge of ECOWAS affairs. =
=0D
Nigerian forces are already stationed in Sierra Leone under a defence pac=
t and have skirmished with Koroma loyalists around the international airp=
ort, which is held by the West Africans. =
=0D
``We will see how Koromah's military force can withstand the military for=
ces of 16 West African countries,'' Ogunlade said. =
=0D
Not including Sierra Leone, nine of the other 15 ECOWAS heads of state fi=
rst came to power through force of arms themselves. =
=0D
Leaving aside any feelings they may have for a fellow soldier, some of th=
e world's poorest countries are reluctant to get into another military ad=
venture after seven years imposing peace in Liberia with the Nigerian-led=
ECOMOG force. =
=0D
Diplomats say that apart from Nigeria, which won rare plaudits for broker=
ing a deal on Liberia at last year's ECOWAS summit, only Guinea and tiny =
Gambia are fully on board for a battle. Ghana in particular is opposed. =
=0D
Fears the military option could prove expensive and embarrassing were fur=
ther heightened by Nigeria's failed effort to shell the junta out of Free=
town from the sea on June 2. =
=0D
Meanwhile, local anti-junta militias have yet to prove they could topple =
Koroma and his rebel allies, who accused Kabbah of cheating on a peace de=
al to end five years of war and rallied to the coup in their thousands. =
=0D
A blockade of Freetown has proved effective only in the air, while commer=
cial ships have been able to bring supplies to the junta and the land bor=
ders are porous. =
=0D
Threats of new, unspecified ECOWAS sanctions are yet to materialise. =
=0D
``If it is not possible to impose sanctions properly then what hope is th=
ere for military action?'' asked one West African diplomat. ``Maybe we sh=
ould not be so afraid of trying more dialogue however it looks outside.''=
=
=0D
02:27 08-22-97
=0D
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.6576.emout18.mail.aol.com.872597314--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:19:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASJanneh@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: US / S. Leone
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from
Amadou
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WASHINGTON, Aug 25 (Reuter) - The United States has sent an envoy to try =
to persuade West African states to use peaceful means in their bid to ove=
rturn a military coup in Sierra Leone, the State Department said on Monda=
y. =
=0D
It said ambassador to Sierra Leone John Hirsch, who returned to Washingto=
n when his embassy was evacuated during the May coup, had been dispatched=
to the region for talks with the Economic Community of West African Stat=
es (ECOWAS). =
=0D
ECOWAS holds its annual meeting in the Nigerian capital Abuja this week, =
with Sierra Leone expected to top the agenda. =
=0D
Sierra Leone's neighbors have opted for dialogue and economic sanctions t=
o try to reinstate its ousted president, but have not ruled out the use o=
f force. =
=0D
``We fully support ECOWAS' efforts to restore President Ahmad Tejan Kabba=
h through mediation and the use of sanctions,'' State Department spokesma=
n James Rubin said. =
=0D
``We support early and vigorous negotiations. If negotiations do not succ=
eed, we are deeply concerned that force may be used instead,'' Rubin said=
in a statement. =
=0D
U.S. officials said Hirsch would not participate in the ECOWAS meeting, t=
o which the United States had not been invited. REUTER =
=0D
16:09 08-25-97
=0D
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.13284.emout17.mail.aol.com.872597992--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:33:07 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dekat (fwd)
Message-ID: <340359A3.231B@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi again LatJor!
Your points are well noted. However, I don=B4t think they differ to a
great extent from the points in my previous post. Among other things you
stated:
How to determine what is a priority requires who
ever is doing the determination to critically discern what the needs of
the nation are; the resources available (human and otherwise);
Quantifiable (measurable) indicators of these needs; etc...
I have stated in my previous post that "there are many more issues that
need to be identified....It is only in identifying the various factors
connected to our choices, identifying problems and finding solutions to
them that we can hope to succeed". With this in mind, the needs of the
nation, the resources available, quantifiable indicators of those needs
plus a host of other considerations would have to be borne in mind
before any decisions are made. This would include taking into account
the possibility of failures of some ventures (the hypothetical radio
production plant?) and finding solutions not only to the problem of how
to adapt the skills of the workers but also how to avoid such failures.
My justification for believing that the priorities of the nation should
be set and our education tailored to meet those needs rather than having
an educational system which does not even recognise our priorities is to
make effective use of our limited resources. If we take geography
lessons in The Gambia for example, we are taught loads about glaciers
among other things. How many of us would ever come into contact with a
glacier let alone have to deal with the problem of glaciers? A closer to
home issue could be mud which all of us have to deal with. By choosing
our priorities first and then tailoring our education to meet those
needs, I believe that our limited resources could be put to better use.
At the moment, this is my belief. I might be wrong. I do not claim to
have the panacea to Gambia=B4s problems because like everyone else, I am
human and gullible. If you can convince me to change my position, I
would be more than willing to. The reason I joined this forum is to test
my beliefs and learn.
You also wrote:
The issue if priorities for the gambia is a national issue and cannot be
placed in any other context. If your discussions were centered around a
business venture in the technology field, then why discuss national
priorities? If on the other hand you want to discuss national priorities
then surely the rest of the gambian populace ought to have their say as
to what they consider to be a priority - tinkering with computer memory
chips or developing organic farming techniques.
I believe that the issue of private investment be it in the technology
field or any other is both a private and national issue. It is a private
issue because private individuals and businesses have to make decisions
about it. It is a national issue because the government has to make
policies and decisions which affect the ability of individuals and
businesses to invest. This in turn will affect the lives of all
Gambians. I therefore believe that the issue of investment is also a
national issue.
On the issue of prioritisation, I believe like you that it is a
national issue which must be determined by ALL Gambians either for
themselves or through their representatives. I believe in democracy like
you do (judging from your concern for the wishes of the Gambian people).
It is in this context that I am giving my view as to what should be
prioritised. There are many people who do not hold this view even on
this list (judging from the support agriculture has received from
members, the concerns raised about Gambia=B4s ability to effectively
prioritise technology etc.) let alone Gambia. I respect and accept their
views and if I can be convinced that I am wrong, I=B4ll gladly accept my
shortcomings. Gambia-l only provides a forum to express our views. We do
not have any authority at this point to implement our views because we
are neither the Gambia Government nor the parliament of the country. The
views we express here might in fact be seen as rubbish by those who
presently have the authority. The important thing at this moment is that
we are able to discuss our views and get feedback on them so that by the
time some of us are in authority to implement our views, we would have
already tried them out theoretically and gotten the necessary feedback.
This the forum Gambia-l provides for those who have access to computers.
For the rest of the Gambian population, if the issue should ever come
up, it would be the responsibility of whichever government is in power
to seek their views. In short, I agree with you that the Gambian people
ought to have their say.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Gabriel Ndow wrote:
> =
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 02:57:14 -0700
> From: latjor ndow <ndukuman@avana.net>
> To: gndow@spelman.edu
> Subject: Re: Dekat
> =
> Greetings Buharry:
> In your posting,you stated:
> >Before going further, I=B4d like to point out that I believe that we >=
should first decide our priorities and tailor our education to make >whic=
hever choice we make work. This would be a more effective way of >tacklin=
g our problems than the other way round.
> =
> In my view, the process of deciding our priorities is itself a
> scientific process. How to determine what is a priority requires who
> ever is doing the determination to critically discern what the needs of=
> the nation are; the resources available (human and otherwise);
> Quantifiable (measurable) indicators of these needs; etc...
> I fear that if we select out priorities first and then, and only then
> "tailor our (science) education" accordingly, we may become like the
> three blind men who were brought before an elephant and each asked to
> describe what was in front of them. One touched the tail and said it wa=
s
> a rope (a priority), another touched one of the elephant's feet and
> claimed it was a tree trunk (another priority)- I think you get my
> drift.
> The issue if priorities for the gambia is a national issue and cannot b=
e
> placed in any other context. If your discussions were centered around a=
> business venture in the technology field, then why discuss national
> priorities? If on the other hand you want to discuss national prioritie=
s
> then surely the rest of the gambian populace ought to have their say as=
> to what they consider to be a priority - tinkering with computer memory=
> chips or developing organic farming techniques. Providing them with the=
> right tools to make the right choices is the object of science
> education.
> =
> On an other matter, what if the hypothetical radio production plant
> collapsed the very first year of its existence for whatever reason? Wil=
l
> the workers be able to adapt their newly learnt skills elsewhere?
> =
> Concerning the innovative spirit. Let me say that no single group have =
a
> monopoly of it. But the likelihood of a greater number of innovators in=
> any given group rises accordingly with the group's level of literacy an=
d
> familiarity with scientific principles and practices.
> =
> Lest there is any confusion, I am also an advocate like you and others
> for technological investments in the gambia. I just do not see how
> science literacy (as well as general ed.) is not given the highest
> priority, if we wish to see new industries take root and succeed.
> =
> LatJor
> =
> -------------------
> GASTECH, INC. (Gambian Science and Technology Corp.)
> 3700 Buford Hwy, #58
> Atlanta, GA 30329
> E-mail: gndow@spelman.edu ndukuman@avana.net
> LatJor
> =
> > The debate I discern is centered around how best/quickly gambia
> > can be transfromed into an industrailized nation.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:33:04 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gndow@spelman.edu
Cc: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dekat (fwd)
Message-ID: <340367B0.5012@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi again LatJor!
Your points are well noted. However, I don=B4t think they=
differ to a great extent from the points in my previous post. Among
other things you
stated:
How to determine what is a priority requires who
ever is doing the determination to critically discern what the needs of
the nation are; the resources available (human and otherwise);
Quantifiable (measurable) indicators of these needs; etc...
I have stated in my previous post that "there are many more issues that
need to be identified....It is only in identifying the various factors
connected to our choices, identifying problems and finding solutions to
them that we can hope to succeed". With this in mind, the needs of the
nation, the resources available, quantifiable indicators of those needs
plus a host of other considerations would have to be borne in mind
before any decisions are made. This would include taking into account
the possibility of failures of some ventures (the hypothetical radio
production plant?) and finding solutions not only to the problem of how
to adapt the skills of the workers but also how to avoid such failures.
My justification for believing that the priorities of the nation
should be set and our education tailored to meet those needs rather than
having an educational system which does not even recognise our
priorities is to make effective use of our limited resources. If we take
geography
lessons in The Gambia for example, we are taught loads about glaciers
among other things. How many of us would ever come into contact with a
glacier let alone have to deal with the problem of glaciers? A closer to
home issue could be mud which all of us have to deal with. By choosing
our priorities first and then tailoring our education to meet those
needs, I believe that our limited resources could be put to better use.
At the moment, this is my belief. I might be wrong. I do not claim to
have the panacea to Gambia=B4s problems because like everyone else, I am
human and gullible. If you can convince me to change my position, I
would be more than willing to. The reason I joined this forum is to test
my beliefs and learn.
You also wrote:
The issue if priorities for the gambia is a national issue and cannot be
placed in any other context. If your discussions were centered around a
business venture in the technology field, then why discuss national
priorities? If on the other hand you want to discuss national priorities
then surely the rest of the gambian populace ought to have their say as
to what they consider to be a priority - tinkering with computer memory
chips or developing organic farming techniques.
I believe that the issue of private investment be it in the
technology field or any other is both a private and national issue. It
is a private issue because private individuals and businesses have to
make decisions about it. It is a national issue because the government
has to make policies and decisions which affect the ability of
individuals and
businesses to invest. This in turn will affect the lives of all
Gambians. I therefore believe that the issue of investment is also a
national issue.
On the issue of prioritisation, I believe like you that it is a
national issue which must be determined by ALL Gambians either for
themselves or through their representatives. I believe in democracy like
you do (judging from your concern for the wishes of the Gambian people).
It is in this context that I am giving my view as to what should be
prioritised. There are many people who do not hold this view even on
this list (judging from the support agriculture has received from
members, the concerns raised about Gambia=B4s ability to effectively
prioritise technology etc.) let alone Gambia. I respect and accept their
views and if I can be convinced that I am wrong, I=B4ll gladly accept my
shortcomings. Gambia-l only provides a forum to express our views. We do
not have any authority at this point to implement our views because we
are neither the Gambia Government nor the parliament of the country. The
views we express here might in fact be seen as rubbish by those who
presently have the authority. The important thing at this moment is that
we are able to discuss our views and get feedback on them so that by the
time some of us are in authority to implement our views, we would have
already tried them out theoretically and gotten the necessary feedback.
This the forum Gambia-l provides for those who have access to computers.
For the rest of the Gambian population, if the issue should ever come
up, it would be the responsibility of whichever government is in power
to seek their views. In short, I agree with you that the Gambian people
ought to have their say.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Gabriel Ndow wrote:
> =
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 02:57:14 -0700
> From: latjor ndow <ndukuman@avana.net>
> To: gndow@spelman.edu
> Subject: Re: Dekat
> =
> Greetings Buharry:
> In your posting,you stated:
> >Before going further, I=B4d like to point out that I believe that we >=
should first decide our priorities and tailor our education to make >whic=
hever choice we make work. This would be a more effective way of >tacklin=
g our problems than the other way round.
> =
> In my view, the process of deciding our priorities is itself a
> scientific process. How to determine what is a priority requires who
> ever is doing the determination to critically discern what the needs of=
> the nation are; the resources available (human and otherwise);
> Quantifiable (measurable) indicators of these needs; etc...
> I fear that if we select out priorities first and then, and only then
> "tailor our (science) education" accordingly, we may become like the
> three blind men who were brought before an elephant and each asked to
> describe what was in front of them. One touched the tail and said it wa=
s
> a rope (a priority), another touched one of the elephant's feet and
> claimed it was a tree trunk (another priority)- I think you get my
> drift.
> The issue if priorities for the gambia is a national issue and cannot b=
e
> placed in any other context. If your discussions were centered around a=
> business venture in the technology field, then why discuss national
> priorities? If on the other hand you want to discuss national prioritie=
s
> then surely the rest of the gambian populace ought to have their say as=
> to what they consider to be a priority - tinkering with computer memory=
> chips or developing organic farming techniques. Providing them with the=
> right tools to make the right choices is the object of science
> education.
> =
> On an other matter, what if the hypothetical radio production plant
> collapsed the very first year of its existence for whatever reason? Wil=
l
> the workers be able to adapt their newly learnt skills elsewhere?
> =
> Concerning the innovative spirit. Let me say that no single group have =
a
> monopoly of it. But the likelihood of a greater number of innovators in=
> any given group rises accordingly with the group's level of literacy an=
d
> familiarity with scientific principles and practices.
> =
> Lest there is any confusion, I am also an advocate like you and others
> for technological investments in the gambia. I just do not see how
> science literacy (as well as general ed.) is not given the highest
> priority, if we wish to see new industries take root and succeed.
> =
> LatJor
> =
> -------------------
> GASTECH, INC. (Gambian Science and Technology Corp.)
> 3700 Buford Hwy, #58
> Atlanta, GA 30329
> E-mail: gndow@spelman.edu ndukuman@avana.net
> LatJor
> =
> > The debate I discern is centered around how best/quickly gambia
> > can be transfromed into an industrailized nation.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:01:45 +0000 (GMT)
From: Tijan Sallah <tsallah@worldbank.org>
To: "gambia-l@u.washington.edu" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: US / S. Leone
Message-ID: <"B1996ZWZNFWBP6*/R=WBWASH/R=A1/U=TIJAN SALLAH/"@MHS>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Dear Gambia-L Owner/Manager:
I would appreciate it if you could kindly remove my name from
your distribution list. I have enjoyed the informative debates
in the early days of Gambia-L, especially immediately after the
coup, and I have often enjoyed the news pieces, but I have found
that the volume of e-mail coming in daily is just too much for me
to cope with. I will catch up on the occasional newsworthy
pieces from my friend and compatriot, Prof. Sulayman Nyang. I
appreciate the gesture that active Gambians like Latjor Ndow have
made in getting me involved in this worthy forum. However,
because I am too pressed for time, I am unable to cope. Just for
your information, for any one interested in getting in touch, I
can always be reached at my private e-mail address. I wish you
every success with the Gambia-L forum.
Best wishes to you all,
Dr. Tijan M. Sallah
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:43:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: EARTHWATCH GRANTS FOR FIELD RESEARCH IN AFRICA (fwd)
Message-ID: <199708261543.LAA15714@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
Forwarded message:
> From owner-miombo-l@virginia.edu Tue Aug 26 10:17:45 1997
> From: "Paul V. Desanker" <pvd4m@faraday.clas.virginia.edu>
> Message-Id: <199708261415.KAA335532@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU>
> Subject: EARTHWATCH GRANTS FOR FIELD RESEARCH IN AFRICA (fwd)
> To: miombo-l@virginia.edu
> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 10:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> > >call for proposals
>
> > >http://www.earthwatch.org/cfr/cfr.html
> > >^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >This underscored portion above is our the front page for Earthwatch and
> > >includes a catalog of all current expeditions, plus educational program
> > >information.
> > >
> > >Projects we support currently in Africa include:
> > >* Dr. M.R. Cheek - Botanical Inventory of Lower Altitude Rain Forests,
> > >Mount Cameroon.
> > >* P. Jansyn - Community Health in Cameroon.
> > >* Dr. D.M. Harper - Inside Lake Naivasha and Hell_s Gate National Park,
> > >Kenya.
> > >* Dr. G. Lovei - Migratory birds in Kenya and Europe
> > >* Dr. Josephine Andrews - The Black Lemur Forest Project, Madagascar.
> > >* Dr. Patricia Wright - Behavior and Ecology of Rainforest Lemurs in
> > >Ranomafana National Park, Madagascar.
> > >* Laurie Marker-Kraus - Cheetah Survival on the Namibian Livestock
> > >Farmlands.
> > >* Dr. J. Scott Turner - Ventilation in Colonies of Southern African
> > >Macrotermites, Namibia.
> > >* David Balfour - Large Herbivore Census in Hluhluwe-Umfolozi Park, South
> > >Africa.
> > >* Dr. Peter B. Best - Survey of the Genetic Variation of the Right Whale
> > >Population off the Coast of South Africa.
> > >* Alison J. Leslie - The Role of the Nile Crocodile (Crocodylus niloticus)
> > >in the Lake St. Lucia Ecosystem in Natal, South Africa.
> > >* African Forest Birds: Impact of Forest Fragmentation upon bird
> > >populations.
> > >* Wm. Newmark - Bird Populations in the Usambara Mountains, Tanzania.
> > >* Dr. Sky Alibhai - Rhinowatch: Black Rhino Monitoring and Conservation in
> > >Zimbabwe.
> > >* Joseph Paine Dudley - Elephant Ecology: Community Ecology of the African
> > >Savanna Elephant, Zimbabwe.
> > >* Dr. Prisca N. Nemapare - Maternal Nutrition and Health in Masvingo
> > >Province of Zimbabwe: A Preventive Nutrition Program.
> > >* Dr. Mary Glenn - Mona Monkeys (guenons) in Sao Tome & Principe
> > >
> > >Here is a generic call for proposals. More specific ones are found on the
> > >CFR web pages.
> > >--------------------------------
> > >GRANTS FOR FIELD RESEARCH IN AFRICA Earthwatch is Expanding its Africa
> > >Program
> > >
> > >The Center for Field Research is currently accepting proposals for
> > >post-doctoral and doctoral-level field research in selected countries in
> > >Africa for the summer 1998 field season and beyond. Research must employ
> > >20 or more volunteers per year as field data collectors.
> > >
> > >The Center for Field Research (CFR) is a private, nonprofit organization
> > >established in 1973 to promote significant scholarship and to improve
> > >communication between scholars and the public. The Center receives, reviews
> > >and recommends projects for support by
> > >Earthwatch, the funding organization.
> > >
> > >Earthwatch is an international coalition of citizens and scientists working
> > >to sustain the world's environment, monitor global change, conserve
> > >endangered habitats and species, explore the vast heritage of our peoples,
> > >and foster world health and international cooperation. The mission of
> > >Earthwatch is to improve human understanding of the planet, the diversity
> > >of its inhabitants, and the processes that affect the
> > >quality of life on earth. To date, Earthwatch has sponsored 1,920 projects
> > >in 118 countries with over $31 million in funds. Over 40,000 volunteers
> > >have contributed their time, funds and skills to environmental enterprise
> > >and problem-solving.
> > >
> > >CFR will consider proposals for field research in any discipline that can
> > >gainfully employ nonspecialists in the implementation of a carefully
> > >constructed pure or applied research project. The volunteers, who are
> > >recruited and screened to meet scientists' needs, are highly educated
> > >citizens dedicated to improving environmental understanding.
> > >
> > >The Center encourage proposals that are interdisciplinary and/or
> > >transnational. Professionals from any nationality, for work in any
> > >geographic region, are eligible to apply.
> > >
> > >Specific requests for proposals are available on the following topics:
> > >
> > >Animal Behavior Research, Anthropology, Archaeology, Atmospheric Chemistry
> > >and Global Change, Biological Sciences, Conservation Biology, Coral Reef
> > >Research and Conservation, Ecological Economics, Ecology, Folklore and Oral
> > >History, Forest Science, Geology, Geography, Biogeochemistry, Hydrology,
> > >Global Change Research, Indigenous
> > >Knowledge, International Health and Nutrition, Marine Biology, Ecology and
> > >Ichthyology, Marine Mammalogy, Marine Sactuaries and National Estuarine
> > >Research Reserves, Oceanography, Ornithology, Primatology, Public Lands
> > >Management, Quaternary Studies, Remote Sensing and Environmental Monitoring
> > >for Sustainable Development, Renewable and
> > >Alternative Energy, Sustainable Development, Sustainable Agriculture,
> > >Textiles, Vernacular Architecture, and Wildlife Management.
> > >
> > >Grants range from $6,000-$120,000 annually, averaging $20,000. A typical
> > >project would employ 4 to 8 volunteers each on 3 to 5 sequential teams.
> > >Teams normally spend 10 to 25 days in the field. Shorter and longer teams
> > >are encouraged where appropriate, as are larger teams.
> > >
> > >Preliminary proposals should be submitted 12-14 months in advance of
> > >anticipated field dates. Full proposals are invited upon review of
> > >preliminary materials and will be peer reviewed. Proposals are accepted and
> > >reviewed year-round. Applicants for the summer of 1998 field season should
> > >call or email immediately to meet our processing deadlines.
> > >
> > >Please use the CFR preliminary proposal application form when applying.
> > >Copies of the form are available from the the CFR web site at:
> > >http://www.earthwatch.org/cfr/CFRprlmnryp.html or by email. (see below)
> > >
> > >African countries of current interest are: Botswana, Cameroon, Eritrea,
> > >Ethiopia, Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Lesotho, Kenya, Madagascar, Morocco,
> > >Namibia, Seychelles, Republic of South Africa, Swaziland, Tanzania, Uganda,
> > >Zimbabwe, and Zambia.
> > >-----------------------------------------------------
> > >Here is the preliminary proposal form needed to apply to the Center for
> > >Field Research to be considered for Earthwatch field grant and volunteer
> > >support.
> > >---------------------------------------
> > >PRELIMINARY PROPOSAL APPLICATION FORM - You may clip, print, and fax this
> > >form, or email it to us
> > >---------------------------------------
> > >THE CENTER FOR FIELD RESEARCH (AN AFFILIATE OF EARTHWATCH)
> > >680 Mount Auburn Street Box 9104 Watertown, Massachusetts 02272 USA
> > >Phone: 617 926 8200 FAX: 617 926 8532 Telex: 510 600 6452
> > >TCN ID: TCN1294
> > >Internet: cfr@earthwatch.org
> > >WWW: http://www.earthwatch.org/cfr/cfr.html
> > >
> > >PRELIMINARY PROPOSAL
> > >Please use this form or electronic equivalent. Attach additional sheets as
> > >necessary.
> > >
> > >PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR(S):
> > >
> > >POSITION(S)/INSTITUTIONAL AFFILIATION(S):
> > >
> > >ADDRESS:
> > >
> > >OFFICE PHONE: FAX:
> > >
> > >HOME PHONE: E-MAIL:
> > >
> > >PROJECT TITLE:
> > >
> > >DISCIPLINE(S):
> > >
> > >FIELD DATES: RESEARCH SITE:
> > >
> > >RESEARCH OBJECTIVES:
> > >Describe project goals and include background and progress to date, both by
> > >others and by yourself.
> > >
> > >METHODS AND TECHNIQUES:
> > >Briefly describe your research design.
> > >
> > >SIGNIFICANCE OF RESEARCH:
> > >Please indicate the professional and popular significance of the research,
> > >its educational applications, and policy implications.
> > >
> > >NEED FOR VOLUNTEER FIELD ASSISTANTS:
> > >All investigations must include tasks for non-specialist field assistants
> > >recruited from Earthwatch's global membership. What tasks and
> > >responsibilities will be required of the Earthwatch volunteers in the
> > >field? A typical project consists of several 1-3 week teams.
> > >
> > >Please estimate the minimum and maximum number of volunteers per team,
> > >length and dates of teams.
> > >
> > >STAFF COMPOSITION:
> > >Include name, age, highest degree or other credential, institutional
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> > >transportation in the field, equipment) in support of volunteer field
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> > >their own costs of transportation to the field site). Earthwatch does not
> > >provide PI salaries or institutional overhead.
> > >
> > >Signature: _____________________________________________ Date:
> > >_______________
> > >Name (please print): __________________________________________
> > >
> > >How did you first learn about CFR/Earthwatch?:
> > >____________________________________________
> > >David J. Lowe
> > >Program Director for Life Sciences
> > >The Center for Field Research,
> > >an affiliate of EARTHWATCH
> > >680 Mt. Auburn St. Box 9104
> > >Watertown, MA 02272 USA
> > >Tel. 617-926-8200 x127 Fax 617-926-8532
> > >E-mail: dlowe@earthwatch.org
> > >World Wide Web: http://www.earthwatch.org/cfr/cfr.html
> > >______________________________________________
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:28:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <970826122635_-1268768265@emout20.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
In a message dated 97-08-25 19:55:53 EDT, Lee wrote:
>This is a special message to Modou "torstein" Jallow.
>I maybe xenophobic but not a "sheltered clown" like you.Get off your
>finger and smell the real world.I resent your insulting remarks.I happen
>to live in nothern europe were race counts even some don't talk abóut
>it. I don't have anything against the bearer of the message but ask you
>to try and confirm it.
>Why can't you debate the "xenophobic" statement that I made, than been
>an immature fool that you are (calling me names). Is this man a holy man
>you worship or are you awed by europeans and have to prove your love.
>I think you better stick to your story telling and giving football
>results. It is a shame that you bear the Jallow name.
>SORRY TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE LIST INCLUDING TORSTEIN.
>If I crawled from a hole, then that hole is called Bakau and is in the
>Gambia. Can't you bear to see anybody doubt a european.
Lee!
Your comments to Mr. Grotnes and now to Moe symbolizes not just the "racist
mind" in you but also the anger that you have accumulated. But knowing Moe
the way I do, he is probably too smart to indulge in "not so" important
flaming with a moron like yourself.
As you can see from the reactions of all the members regarding your stupid
and ignorant comments, your membership to Gambia-l bears no respectable
significance from now on. The list is for civil discussions and NOT for
racial slurs and personal attacks. If you knew anything about civility, then
you would apologize formally to Mr. Grotnes and all the westerners on this
list. Failure to do so, would simply mean that you do NOT have any respect
for moral attitude.
Maybe, you ought to belong to "racist" listserver where you can outcry your
pain by accruing more ignorance into your concrete mind. Once again, you can
either learn the art of civil discussions or like Moe said, " you can go back
to the dark hole you have been hiding in", and while you are at it, make sure
to clean your "stinking mouth of filth".
I will put it straight to you: "You are god DAMNED racist!!!!!!!!" and do not
deserve the name "JALLOW".
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:09:54 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
Message-ID: <01BCB25C.A39DE2A0@dija.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCB25C.A3AEAB80"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB25C.A3AEAB80
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Doc!
Because most black leaders of Post-Independent Africa have a pathology =
of not being able to give up power without being helped by death or a =
military coup,we the black masses should reserve the right to depose any =
of our leaders whenever his continued presence as the leader is either =
unberable(Mobotu) for the majority, or against the national interest =
(Fafa Jawara).That is why we cannot and should not at this point in time =
of our history promise anyone that we will not make military coups in =
our countries. It is the ballot box of those who cannot change their =
over-staying or brutal or unproductive leaders through the ballot box! =
It will change when we start to have a new breed of leaders to whom =
giving up power is all too natural.
It is precisely because of this abnormal situation in black Africa that =
we should not have an automatic negative reaction to all military coups =
there.The kind of attitude we should rather have towards any given coup =
maker should be based on two things: 1) the performance of the leader =
who was deposed. 2) And how long he has been the leader =
anyway,regardless of whether he performed well or not!
So,because Mr.Kabbah was democratically elected and had not stayed long =
enough to show that he could perform well (barely two years),Koroma's =
rationale and motive for deposing him cannot be seen as anything but =
hunger for power and a transparent exercise to impose himself on the =
Sierra Leonians.That is why it is morally justified to support sending =
him and his henchmen back to wherever they came from.And I am personally =
not at all worried about whoever is going to do it ,as long as it is =
done.
And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 18:06:40 UT
From: "Susan Hatch" <SusanHatch@classic.msn.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: new member
Message-ID: <UPMAIL17.199708261809450168@classic.msn.com>
Hi,
I am a graduate student in the Seattle University ESL program, and I am
interested in learning about The Gambia.
Susan
----------
From: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu on behalf of Gabriel Ndow
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 9:49 PM
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: new member
Susan Hatch has been added to the group. Welcome and please
send a brief introduction to the group.
Sen mail to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <9708261913.AA27828@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lee wrote:
>This is a special message to Modou "torstein" Jallow.
>I maybe xenophobic but not a "sheltered clown" like you.Get off your
>finger and smell the real world.I resent your insulting remarks.I happen
>to live in nothern europe were race counts even some don't talk about
>it. I don't have anything against the bearer of the message but ask you
>to try and confirm it.
>Why can't you debate the "xenophobic" statement that I made, than been
>an immature fool that you are (calling me names). Is this man a holy man
>you worship or are you awed by europeans and have to prove your love.
>I think you better stick to your story telling and giving football
>results. It is a shame that you bear the Jallow name.
>SORRY TO EVERYONE ELSE ON THE LIST INCLUDING TORSTEIN.
>If I crawled from a hole, then that hole is called Bakau and is in the
>Gambia. Can't you bear to see anybody doubt a european.
Sal, I am very capable of defending myself..and...I have the perfect
"dose" for this "*****".
Lee, it's wonderful to note that you feel resentful by being called a
"clown"....the whole purpose of my message was to show you how it feels to
be the victim of false accusations...and...I am glad about the outcome!!!
What then does this tell you about ignorance? Have you not learned anything
about when to open or shut your mouth? I am greatly baffled as to how you
remained "hidden in your dark hole" during the numerous discussions that
went on...and ...all of sudden you emerge from "nowhere" only to find a way
to attract some attention! Well, you did get your attention alright...until
you met your "sudden" disgraceful death. Now, maybe you can tell me how
exactly you think other "westerners" felt about your message.
Racism and racial slurs is the symbol of ignorance. Everywhere you go,
there is some form racial barriers that are directed to other groups of
people. Regardless of whether you are in those groups does not justify your
absurd and artificial statements regarding Caucasians and europeans. You
have seen the response of many of the "non-Africans" who simply condemn you
for your sickning remarks. But as an African living a western world, I
understand very well why you are so "sick" about outcrying your pain. But
wouldn't it be more handsome if you could choose the words for your
audience wisely? How then, I wonder, would your children term you a "role"
model if all you show is the spell of ignorance. Are they going to
appreciate your "mean" ways of dealing with your society, or just follow
suit behind your footsteps?
During my 1 year as a member of GL, I have seen many comments that I simply
pass on as absurdity, but your comments were felt by even the Gambians.
Now, you tell me where that leaves you. You comments overwhelmingly
"disgraces" the whole purpose of the listserv which is mutual discussions
of various subjects. Maybe you had better join (if you are not already a
member) the many hate groups in Cyberspace that you seem to emulate. Now
let me ask you, prior to your "little piece", did you even consider sending
in your introduction as courtesy gesture to the listmembers?
What is there to doubt...didn't the truth unfold as stated? You be the
judge of that. It is amusing that with all your knowledge about Gambian
affairs you have made no effort to share it with the list. I find that not
only ingnorant but also selfish. Your kind will simply never amount to any
help in building a base for human dialogue. For that reason, I will say
again that you are better off going "back to your hiding hole" and keep on
SHUTTING UP ! Gambia-l can do much better without your racist comments. As
you can see, you have wasted time with what you thought was a simple remark
but turned out to be FILTH.
As far as I am concerned, you can call yourself "Jallow" or whatever you
want. The problem is not with your name but "YOU" as an individual. My case
is closed on this one and you will hear no more from me. But remember to
write with an "open" mind rather than a "closed" one.
I apologize to all the members for responding to the list address.
Moe S. Jallow
===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S
As for soccer, yes..it is the greatest sport on earth, second to any other.
Maybe you ought to try playing the game so you can change your hobby from
"IGNORANCE" to "FUN". Life is a sport, so play it!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 15:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <970826153651_481449759@emout13.mail.aol.com>
Well put, Moe,
Now that I think about it, he targerted you because you share the same last
name. I guess he was amazed to see it coming from another "Jallow". You have
shown him, though, that you are not the same. Somebody ought to slap his
silly ass for his "stupid" remarks. Maybe he will think twice before opening
his filthy mouth next time.
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:26:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@Spelman.EDU>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Dekat (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970826171332.10254A-100000@acc5>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Greetings Mboka:
I thank you for your responses and please to not think that I
or any one is trying to change your position. As you stated,
GL is a forum for all of us to share our viewpoints. It was
in this spirit that I took the opposite position to yours.
Neither of us has a monopoly on what is right. We seek the
right path and solutions bby engaging each other in dialogue.
The answers we seek are out there. We journey together in search
of them. You challenge me to be more critical in my thinking,
so please take no offense in my statements.
In peace,
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:44:50 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: "Gambia L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: TESTING!
Message-ID: <199708260947.LAA29063@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I AM JUST TESTING MY SYSTEM. SORRY FOR THE DISTRACTION.
SIDIBEH.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:31:51 -0700
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gndow@spelman.edu
Cc: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dekat (fwd)
Message-ID: <3403D7E7.3FAD@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hi again LatJor!
Thanks once again for your post. Please do not think that I have taken
offense in your statements because I have not. I am at the present
moment a student and hope to be one until the day I leave this earth.
Your commenting on my post is indeed highly appreciated because it helps
me test my ideas. Like you said, nobody has a monopoly on what is right.
What I believe might be unrealistic given the context of our country. It
is only when I throw out my beliefs for general discussion that I can
get responses that will help me restructure them to fit the realities of
The Gambia.
It is in the spirit of learning that I said that I would change my
position if you convince me to. It is also a challenge to continue the
dialogue. I do not have a problem with anyone changing my position if I
can be convinced that my position has deficiencies. It is only this way
that I can hope to develop intellectually.
I understood from the very beginning that there are many people on this
list who are much more educated than I am and who have much more
experience than I do. I understood that if I can get such people to
critique my beliefs, the experience would be rather enlightening. That
is why I joined this list and why I dared to stick my neck out.
So once again, please do not think that I have taken offence. We are
all in this forum to try to figure out ways of making our Gambia a
better place. In this endeavour, we are brothers and sisters in arms.
Until your next post, I wish you the best.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gabriel Ndow wrote:
>
> Greetings Mboka:
> I thank you for your responses and please to not think that I
> or any one is trying to change your position. As you stated,
> GL is a forum for all of us to share our viewpoints. It was
> in this spirit that I took the opposite position to yours.
> Neither of us has a monopoly on what is right. We seek the
> right path and solutions bby engaging each other in dialogue.
> The answers we seek are out there. We journey together in search
> of them. You challenge me to be more critical in my thinking,
> so please take no offense in my statements.
>
> In peace,
> LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:38:59 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <34035B03.A7056584@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I honestly believe that this issue has gone out of hand now and perhaps
we should just put a close to it. Views were expressed and others in
turn have expressed their lack of appreciation for those views. The
initiator has responded, elaborated and, if my memory serves me right,
even apologogized. Enough is enough. There is really no need to
continue on such an ugly note with naming calling, etc.
Lets put this to rest and move on.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 18:42:04 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Education in The Gambia
Message-ID: <34035BBC.D6DA78B4@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Latjor,
I beleive you attempted to respond to my message but your reponse came
out empty. Could you kindly resend your message with this subject
heading.
Thanks.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 10:01:20 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <199708252138.XAA06909@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry,
I do really hope I will not be disapppointing. I am afraid it is time to go
back to KTH. I have just over a week left. Once in a while I will peep and
join in, but the list you proposed is very intimidating. I hope others will
take on the very important matters raised.
I have just read yours and Katim's; and I must say that very serious issues
are raised. Katim's position I think is quite revolutionary and needs be
treated with the seriousness that such a topic deserves. But I tend to
think that in order to be fair to ourselves, we need to hear him out. i.e
until he submits the second part?
BTW, would you kindly inform me if you get news of John Sowe?
Regards,
Sidibeh.
----------
> Frĺn: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: Re: SV: Dekat
> Datum: den 25 augusti 1997 04:53
>
> Hi Sidibeh!
> Thanks again for a stimulating piece. Saul Jawara was right but he
> probably meant to say England, not U.S. I came back about two months
> ago.
>
> In response to the issues you raised, you first of all pointed out that
> the confusion here is the issue of what we should prioritise,
> agriculture or IT. I admit (now that you´ve raised the issue and I have
> looked at my original posting) that the part I pasted from "Dekat" read
> information technology and not technology (my mistake). I have however
> not in any way argued that IT should be prioritised over agriculture. I
> have in all my postings argued the prioritisation of industy and
> technology (in all its forms, including information technology but not
> limited to it.) This has always been my conviction.
> The second point you raised was that Moe and I seem to believe that
> agriculture should take a back seat because of its problematic nature. I
> don´t know Moe´s position on this but my reasoning is not completely
> based on the problematic nature of agriculture because there is no
> sector that is problem free. My reasoning is that to concentrate all our
> efforts on agriculture over which we have no control is wrong.
> Third, I still believe that complete dependence on agriculture does not
> make economic sense. The reason is that raw materials are cheaper than
> than finished products. If we prioritise agriculture over industry and
> produce raw materials (by the way, our produce is produced by many other
> countries at larger scales thus giving the buying countries more of a
> selection and therefore more leverage to knock prices down) for others
> to process and sell to us at a more expensive rate, I do not see how
> economically wise that is. The product we depend on (peanuts, and if we
> diversify, other agricultural produce)is produced by most of our
> neighbours. If there is an oversupply, we wouldn´t know what to do with
> it and we cannot sell it to our neighbours. If we however concentrate
> most of our efforts on industry and technology, we can process some of
> our own produce and if necessary buy raw materials from our neighbours,
> process the raw materials and sell it back to them and others. It simply
> does not make sense to me that we have to import tinned mangoes when we
> have mango trees, milk, butter, cheese, corned beef etc. when we have
> cattle. The list goes on and on.
> In your Ivory Coast example, you mentioned that just after three
> decades of diversified agriculture "which developed parallel to
> industrialisation" the country was able to make significant strides. You
> said "PARALLEL". This means that the Ivory Coast did not invest all its
> efforts on agriculture at the expense of industrialisation. Just what I
> am trying to argue.
> The greatness of such forums as Gambia-l is the platform they provide
> for the exchange of ideas. Our exchanges on this subject have been
> rather educational and I have noticed how our positions have, no matter
> how small, inched towards each other. Your points have been well taken
> and noted. In some instances, I must confess, they have modified my
> stands. This is just to show that an interchange of ideas can be very
> rich indeed.
> I think that the discussion should be taken to another level as you
> wrote:
>
> As academics, intellectuals, concerned citizens of the Gambia, or
> friends of the Gambia, I think the best approach to deal with our
> developmental issues is to find the cause of problems, understand them,
> and then diagnose a cure.
>
> I agree with you. From the interchanges that have occured on this
> subject, various issues have been raised. Issues such as:
>
> - Prioritisation
> - Gambian agriculture not delivering its full potential
> - Complete dependence on rains
> - The role of agriculture in providing a basis for industrialisation
> - Protectionism
> - Quality issues
> - Commercial policies towards locally produced items
> - Investment of the peasants´revenue
>
> I have probably missed a few but maybe you can help out. If we take the
> issues one at a time and expand on why we think they are problems and
> how they can be overcome (with hopefully maore contributions), we can
> probably come up with a uniform position which might help to put the
> whole issue into its proper perspective and come up with solutions that
> would be meaningful to the realities of The Gambia.
> I hope you´ve had a nice weekend. Until your next post, I wish you the
> best.
> Buharry.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Momodou S Sidibeh wrote:
> >
> > Torstein, Moe, and Momodou,
> > (Buharry of course, I am surprised. When I read your self-introduction,
I
> > enquired about you from Saul Jawara. He informed me that you were in
the
> > U.S. He probably meant a different Buharry. Well, again, welcome to the
> > Bantabaa).
> >
> > Thanks for your responses. I am sure Katim was simply provoking a
> > discussion but it seems he has succeeded. That is how it should be. I
must
> > thank Mr. Alpha Robinson for relocating the discussion in its proper
> > perspective. So before dealing with your questions I would try to
formulate
> > what we seem to disagree upon:
> > FIRSTLY, the issue is WHAT WE SHOULD PRIORITIISE, AGRICULTURE OR IT
> > (INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY) AND INDUSTRIALISATION. Not technology (a
confusing
> > word here) per se. My emphasis and the core of my arguement was we
should
> > place agriculture BEFORE INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY. In my two postings,
there
> > is not the slightest suggestion that we should neither industrialise
nor
> > improve our technology. Being a student of technology myself, saying
such a
> > thing should have been the weirdest idea of the day.
> > SECONDLY, except for giving a suggestion as to what products we could
> > export (which shortlist Torstein finely supplemented), I have not
attempted
> > to declare ways and means of improving our agricultural productivity.
There
> > are others who are better able to do that. I recognise that African or
> > rather Gambian agric. has not delivered its true potential due to a
whole
> > complex of problems. I asked for Katim's view on some of these
problems.
> > But Moe and Buharry seem to believe that agriculture must now take a
back
> > seat because it is problematic. But what other sector is not? As
academics,
> > intellectuals, concerned citizens of the Gambia, or friends of the
Gambia,
> > I think the best approach to deal with our developmental issues is to
find
> > the cause of problems, understand them, and then diagnose a cure.
> > Naturally, where remedies are impossible we must abandon the patient.
But,
> > in my opinion, that is not the case WITH AGRICULTURE in Gambia.
> > THIRDLY, nowhere did I mention dependence or non-dependence on rain for
> > progress in agric. productivity. But I would like to emphasise that
never
> > mind how much one mechanises or irrigates severe droughts, or untimely
> > rains can spell disaster FOR ANY GROUP OF FARMERS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD
-
> > the degree of catastrophe depending on whether one is in California or
in
> > Foni.
> > One thing which Buharry and I definitely disaggree about, and which
> > prompted my responding to his posting is his inference that dependence
on
> > agriculture is uneconomical. He reasoned that that is why the
colonialists
> > enforced cash crop production on us, and that further on, it is the
reason
> > why the developed countries are not replete with farms but industries.
I
> > do not think that is the case at all, so answering Buharry's questions
may
> > expose the reasons why I think that.
> >
> > 1. No, Africa is not participating fully in the world economy. One
reason
> > is that Africa is not using its full potential (for various reasons) in
> > either production or in exchange of its produce, be these industrial or
> > agricultural; and even this peripherical participation is on unequal
terms
> > because as the Swedish Nobel prize winner Gunnar Myrdal wrote,
> > "international trade will generally breed inequality, and will do so
the
> > more strongly WHEN SUBSTANTIAL INEQUALITIES ARE ALREADY IN PLACE".
> >
> > 2. Agriculture as it is currently practiced in Gambia MAY provide a
basis
> > for industrialisation. But I think the process will be very duanting,
> > difficult, and extremely slow. For the past twenty-five years
politicians
> > and policy makers have been singing a very misused song: diversify,
> > mechanise, irrigate, commercialise, and raise productivity. If this is
> > done, as President Jammeh pledges in VISION 2020, then yes, we will
secure
> > a basis for industrialisation.
> >
> > 3. Yes, it is important to analyse British attitudes towards Nigeria's
> > industrialiastion. They wanted the colonies to remain primary producers
of
> > raw materials for their industries, and markets for the manufactures of
> > these industries. They figured that if we industrialise then we will
need
> > these raw materials as local inputs for our own industries and that
these
> > will be very expensive for them. Also we no longer will be obvious
markets
> > for their produce. NOT BECAUSE AGRICULTURE IS UNECONOMICAL. A thorough
> > commercialiation of agriculture would have meant that the farmers would
> > produce more in response to excellent producer prices. They would
reinvest,
> > diversify, and afford inputs such as fertilisers. They would gradually
> > mechanise and we would have a chance to get into agribusiness ..food
> > processing, packaging, exporting. Also you have much less farms in
> > developed countries because of the impact of technological change in
the
> > economic life of nations. In 1900, 40% of Americans were engaged in
> > agricultural production. Today it is barely 3%. Technological change,
high
> > yield grains, fertilisers, and other inputs so greatly increased
> > productivity that less and less people were required to work not only
to
> > feed the remaining population, but to build mountains of reserve food
> > supplies, even after export quotas are met. More and more people left
the
> > farms to work in industries linked directly to agriculture or other
sectors
> > of the economy. This trend continues even now as we see more people
pulled
> > from industrial production into the services connected to these
industries.
> > Again you have a lot less people engaged in farming than formally not
> > because AGRICULTURE IS UNECONOMICAL.
> > 4. Yes, our Gambia is essentially a free-market economy. And yes, our
> > "diwlini gerrteh" is of poorer quality. But please, let us not forget
that
> > there is such a thing called PROTECTIONISM. Essentially, the GATT
talks,
> > which lasted for ages, was about protectionism. Every country practices
it,
> > to a more or lesser degree. I believe in free enterprise. But I also
> > believe in government intervention in economic life, especially in
> > countries which are so weak that (as Buharry himself said) they cannot
> > participate in world trade on equal terms. There are certain industries
> > which we must insist stubbornly to develop until we feel confident that
> > they can do well internationally before we open up to so-called
> > competition. Not to do that will be simply irresponsible. The "tiger"
> > economies of Taiwan and South Korea practiced this skilfully at their
> > earlier stages of industrialisation.
> > 7. In 1950 Ivory Coast had only a few soap factories, two canneries and
a
> > tiny array of other industries such as breweries for beer and mineral
> > water. But after investing in a diversified agriculture which developed
> > parallel to industrialisation, they were able to produce a large
> > manufacturing sector with more than 700 industries just after three
> > decades. Their turnover was over US$ 3 billion in 1980. That was,
amongst
> > other reasons, why Gambians, Senegalese, Malians, Burkinabe, and
Ghanaians
> > went there in droves to search for work. I can only lament if Buharry
has
> > difficulty in understanding what I meant by the relative success of the
> > Ivorians and Zimbabweans and Kenyans. Certainly, we should aim to be
like
> > Singapore even if only to appease former President Jawara's dream. But
> > since we have been discussing Gambia and Africa I thought that Ivory
Coast,
> > Kenya, Zimbabwe, and Botswana are examples which, if we studied what
they
> > did and what they did not do, could probably help us understand our own
> > predicament.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Momodou Sidibeh.
> >
> > 1.
> >
> > ----------
> > > Frĺn: Alpha Robinson <garob1@cip.hx.uni-paderborn.de>
> > > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > > Ämne: Re: Dekat
> > > Datum: den 22 augusti 1997 15:07
> > >
> > > Even though time does not allow me to comment in detail as I would
> > > very much like to do, I would like to ask Dr. Touray; how the Gambia,
> > > a country with a VERY HIGH rate of illeteray, a country where the
> > > vast major are still struggling to meet the basic needs of life, a
> > > country with zero industrial culture at any significant level could
> > > possibly be transformed into the leader of information technology and
> > > industry in Africa? Where will the infrastructure come from. Where
> > > will the machines and equipments come from? etc.. etc...
> > > Noble as the idea maybe, I wonder how we could
> > > put flesh into this dream. And do you really believe that the
> > > information tecchnology world and the markets for industrial products
> > > are without control? Perhaps we should learn to crawl first before we
> > > dream about flying.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Alpha
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:43:00 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: SV: Dekat
Message-ID: <199708252138.XAA06903@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Mr. Ndow,
I think you have raised a very important question: the issue of science
education. It will be difficult in the long run to make serious headway in
an increasingly competitive world without a workforce solidly proficient in
mathematics and science. But once again, HOW DO YOU PROPOSE to bring about
this general "comprehension of scientific principles by a large part of
the populace"? The media, and other fora can help, but it seems to me that
the obvious method (and the most reliable) is through teaching in schools
(including vocational training).
The majority of the schools in the Gambia are publicly funded, and they
are found in the country-side. Eventhough the school-going population of
pupils and students in the urban areas is growing quickly, the children of
peasants still form the a great majority. Poor harvests, low producer price
for their produce, the cost of uniforms, school funds, books, shortages of
pencils, chalk, exercise books, class-room furniture, far-away schools,
poorly motivated teachers (there has been recent complains from them in the
Gambian press) etc. etc. all militate against the best performance of their
children. Somebody (was it not Malnading or Abdou) on this list wrote that
we the useless ones on the farm were sent to school. i.e the question of
going to school and learning science and all of it! rested and still rests
on a fundamental economic calculation always DONE BY THE FARMERS WELL
BEFORE THE GOVERNMENT WAKES UP IN THE MORNING. So we are back to square
zero; and not only at the primary level. Secondary schools need
well-trained teachers, and well-equipped labs. Most of this, is supposed to
be funded by the state! i.e money from the peasants and workers - even if
it is borrowed from outside. I am afraid, we are back to agriculture and
industries - before we come any nearer to public investments.
Best Regards,
Sidibeh.
[By the way, I would like to guess that only 9% of us on this list are not
paying for someones schoolfees]----------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:14:58 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
Message-ID: <34036372.143A321A@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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ASJanneh@aol.com wrote:
> What are your views on reversing the coup in Sierra Leone? Nigeria,
> Guinea and The Gambia appear to be in the forefront of those countries > that support the use of force to dislodge Koroma's military junta. > Leaders of all three countries (and six more West African countries) > came to power by force themselves.
I believe that whatever regime is place, the only way African nations
can truly build their fledging democratic processes is to let them work.
For one, this will need an end to all coup d'etats, whether or not those
who are being toppled originally came to power democratically or not.
In Sierra Leone's case, I appreciated the outright condemnation by
almost all nations and felt the Nigerians should have acted quickly to
reverse the coup given the opportunity they had. What makes this
situation difficult now is that the when these coup leaders had their
backs against the wall they panicked and allowed the RUF rebels, who
have been fighting in the bush for years with sole objective of taking
over Freetown, to basically walk to the Capital and assume power.
At some point it looked as though the negotiation process would work
with Koroma and the rest of his original coup leaders but then power
seemed to shift into the hands of the RUF. As things now stand, for the
rest of the world to believe that these rebels, who have been fighting
in the bush for years, to give up power or walk back to the bush would
be overly optimistic. Human nature dictates that they would probably
rather fight and be forced back then voluntarily give up power.
The other scenario is that an agreement that completely excludes Kabbah
is reached. This is the most probable conclusion outside of a military
confrontation.
While I fear for the lives of Sierra Leoneans and potential destruction
that a military operation could bring, I believe such an option is best
because it would do much to prevent coups from taking place in other
countries as this would in turn cause many a potential coup maker to
think twice.
Both the OAU and the UN have given ECOMOG the mandate to act in any
manner to reinstate Kabbah and his elected government. Ghana and the
other countries should join the fold and end the stalemate once and for
all.
> What role, if any, should the U.S. play in efforts to resolve the
> crisis in Sierra Leone?
The should offer whatever support his asked of by ECOMOG to act on the
mandate given to them by Africa, through the OAU, and the rest of the
world through the UN Security Council.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 19:30:02 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
Message-ID: <340366FA.51B3EEBF@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH wrote:
> Because most black leaders of Post-Independent Africa have a
> pathology of not being able to give up power without being helped by
> death or a military coup,we the black masses should reserve the right
> to depose any of our leaders whenever his continued presence as the
> leader is either unberable(Mobotu) for the majority, or against the
> national interest (Fafa Jawara).That is why we cannot and should not
> at this point in time of our history promise anyone that we will not
> make military coups in our countries. It is the ballot box of those
> who cannot change their over-staying or brutal or unproductive leaders
> through the ballot box! It will change when we start to have a new
> breed of leaders to whom giving up power is all too natural.
Bass, I have to disagree here. The criteria here for sanctioning coup
d'etats is too subjective. We have to decide whether or not we want to
work by the democratic process, i.e. are we ready for it, or not. Once
we decide on it we must abide by it. Period.
This democratic process takes years of hard work and sacrifice to
develop into maturity and even in western democracies the process of
development is still taking place.
As far as I'm concerned, America's over 200 year democracy is only
really a little over thirty years old when after the civil rights
struggle it came much closer to being a true democracy. I'm sure many
Republicans, Scottish and Irish subjects in the U.K. believe they still
have a long way to go.
The point is that every time we experience a coup d'etat it is as though
we begin the process all over again. With this, we might as well just
give up on the democratic process altogether and find something new.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:58:28 -0400
From: Yusupha AK Ceesay <yusupha@elephantwalk.com>
To: "'Gambia L'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FW: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
Message-ID: <01BCB284.64B2D500@remote103.channel1.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Yusupha AK Ceesay [SMTP:yusupha@elephantwalk.com]
Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 3:12 AM
To: Gambia L
Subject: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
I cannot believe how some of my brothers and sisters can react to such a =
tragic thing that happen in our country. I think we should all be sorry =
for the people who got hurt or die and their families. Why do we have =
to talk about someone's greed or unfair practice, I don't think this =
have anything to do with that what ever should happen will happen. =
Gambia is not different from any other country nor the owner of that =
contracting company is different with anyone. This could and is =
happening every where in this would earth quakes and suck those that =
mean anything to those criticizing the owner of the company being cheap =
on cement mixture. At this moment I think any knows the right answer =
how and why this happen. I think we should find out first before any =
speculations. =20
Please let us be brothers and sisters help each other and encourage each =
other to look for the future of our country. Bad mouthing is not a good =
way of solving anything, it those not help anyone. Let us talk more =
interesting things on the Gambia L, stories and jokes are fun that =
debating on topics that mainly negative criticism.
Thanks comments welcome, and sorry if I offend anyone.
Yusupha A.K Ceesay.
617 389-7444
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 01:32:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: Education In Gambia
Message-ID: <970827013209_572028302@emout16.mail.aol.com>
Latir, Please expand more on the schedule change in the educational system
from O+A Level to what?. Is the new system being pattern after the Ghanain
system.?, What are we calling it?and are our teachers well prepared in the
new system. I asked these questions because the introduction of a new system
was done in a "hurried" manner, teachers were not well prepared and it met
with tremendous opposition from educational circles in Ghana. I have
consulted with colleauges of mine who are Ghanains about these and many
questions concerning their system. One the major arguments offered was that
the old system produced a lot of us who speak english very well but never
help in developing the country; changing the system to encompass all
deciplines i.e poly +agri tech will produce people who also can help build
the country.How this fairs in Gambia will remain to be seen. By the way are
they eliminating the common entrance exams also. Please give us more details
so we can discuss it with our brethens in the net and see what conclusions we
come out with. I am sure there are supporters+ opponents to the change
Thanks
Daddy Sang
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:25:19 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B05142590ACE02@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hie Yusupha,
I do not really get you, do you mean that people should not discuss why
this accident happened?
Please let be realistic, if this accident happened due to bad work or
whatever why can't people say it.
'Whatever should happen will happen' : not in this case, I think it was
very fair that people said what they meant about this tragedy.
And people are very sorry for the people who were involved and that's
the main reason why they wanted to know the main cause of the accident
so that to avoid it next time.
Of course jokes and stories are fun, but if there is any interesting
topic which especially is about The Gambia why not talk/discuss about
it.
I do agree with you that one should not come with bad/negative
criticism, but it was not like that in this case.
We all should know that no one is perfect, so this means that we should
accept to be criticized (in a positive way) in order to be put in the
right way.
Joof.
Sorry for my bad English (speak better French than English).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: yusupha@elephantwalk.com [SMTP:yusupha@elephantwalk.com]
> Sent: 27. august 1997 06:58
> To: 'Gambia L'
> Subject: FW: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Yusupha AK Ceesay [SMTP:yusupha@elephantwalk.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 3:12 AM
> To: Gambia L
> Subject: The collapes of the building in the gambia.
>
> I cannot believe how some of my brothers and sisters can react to such
> a tragic thing that happen in our country. I think we should all be
> sorry for the people who got hurt or die and their families. Why do
> we have to talk about someone's greed or unfair practice, I don't
> think this have anything to do with that what ever should happen will
> happen. Gambia is not different from any other country nor the owner
> of that contracting company is different with anyone. This could and
> is happening every where in this would earth quakes and suck those
> that mean anything to those criticizing the owner of the company being
> cheap on cement mixture. At this moment I think any knows the right
> answer how and why this happen. I think we should find out first
> before any speculations.
>
> Please let us be brothers and sisters help each other and encourage
> each other to look for the future of our country. Bad mouthing is not
> a good way of solving anything, it those not help anyone. Let us talk
> more interesting things on the Gambia L, stories and jokes are fun
> that debating on topics that mainly negative criticism.
>
> Thanks comments welcome, and sorry if I offend anyone.
>
> Yusupha A.K Ceesay.
> 617 389-7444
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:28:33 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B05142590ACE04@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Well said Latir. This should be forgotten by now.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Latir Downes-Thomas [SMTP:latir@earthlink.net]
> Sent: 27. august 1997 00:39
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
>
> I honestly believe that this issue has gone out of hand now and
> perhaps
> we should just put a close to it. Views were expressed and others in
> turn have expressed their lack of appreciation for those views. The
> initiator has responded, elaborated and, if my memory serves me right,
> even apologogized. Enough is enough. There is really no need to
> continue on such an ugly note with naming calling, etc.
>
> Lets put this to rest and move on.
>
> Peace.
>
> Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:32:22 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: A catastrophe!
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B05142590ACE05@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hie,
Why can't we discuss in a better manner than using bad words like you
do?
Can't we try to be adults and behave properly?
I know that you are angry, but it does not help to use such bad words.
Sorry if you are offended, but just saying what I mean.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Salifuj@aol.com [SMTP:Salifuj@aol.com]
> Sent: 26. august 1997 21:39
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: Re: A catastrophe!
>
> Well put, Moe,
>
> Now that I think about it, he targerted you because you share the same
> last
> name. I guess he was amazed to see it coming from another "Jallow".
> You have
> shown him, though, that you are not the same. Somebody ought to slap
> his
> silly ass for his "stupid" remarks. Maybe he will think twice before
> opening
> his filthy mouth next time.
>
> -Sal
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:41:28 +0100
From: "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!..in response to racism, criticism
Message-ID: <B0000004891@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Folks,
may I appeal to all to lay off first..on racist remarks..and second..name
calling when we react..
Mr. Modou Jallow..you may have a point to make about unfounded info..and
rumours but there is a decent acceptable way of making that point..your
remarks were racist..and that is ignorant..we all have lived and
experienced RACISM..WHITE RACISM..but that is no justification..the racists
are wrong..let us strive to be better..
On behalf of us all, I apologise to all offended parties and let us get
over this..
in all fairness, almost all our discourse is opinions and quite
subjective..but that is the IDEA..let us exchange ideas and hopes..those of
us based here try to get you the gist of things here, so do not shoot the
messenger..
another point..FOLKS..it is very curious that all the Gambian Civil and
Structural Engineers (including me) have refrained from publicly voicing
out the probable causes for the Building catastrophe..I have on several
occasions written some points but deleted them on second
thoughts..why..because ..there is a culture of SILENCE and
MASLAH..(Toleration now to the poit of Hypocrisy)..and fear to OFFEND and
of VICTIMISATION..it is a very small country..CRITICISM in this country is
wrongly called SABOTAGE..when you criticise..you are accused of
SABOTÉ...french for SABOTAGE..it is sad but real..and the price is paid by
this poor struggling nation...the benefit of the doubt is lost along with
the opportunity..maybe It is time to open up ourselves and start actually
accepting CRITICISM..and be willing to defend our position RATIONALLY and
be willing to be WRONG and ADMIT to be WRONG..Individually and
NATIONALLY..that is a first step to MATURITY..as the saying goes.." you are
not MATURE unti you know you have a RIGHT to make MISTAKES "
after saying all this, I will cap by adding that while Gambian contractors
are publicly calling the accident an ACT of GOD, privately decrying the
design and the construction..the two non-African..Iranian..Civil
engineering companies in The Gambia have rightly said that it is A or B..a
design or construction failure and we need to investigate and see what went
wrong in order to prevent this happening in the FUTURE..I am ashamed to
admit that I have publicly refrained from making comments..and I am amply
qualified to do so..in both my public..Civil Service Job and private..as A
GAMBIAN. a MUSLIM, and A DEVELOPMENT ENGINEER capacity...
folks, it is time we ask ourselves WHY this is SO..
Mr Ghanim, you strike me as a very experienced someone ...what do you
think? and Thanks for your kind mail to me.
by the way on a tribalist note..is this a JALLOW thing..or FULA
SUPREMACY..just kidding..
Peace
pmj
----------
apologies folks..if this message is a little outdated..I am encountering
problems connecting to my server..Gamtel ain't what it used to be..27/8/97
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:37:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Back to the land and bye bye!
Message-ID: <970827093746_857819812@emout04.mail.aol.com>
MR. BALDEH,
YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE MONEY. WE CAN DEBATE BUT TO BRING ABOUT EFFECTIVE CHANGE,
WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO GO BACK AND DO IT WITHIN THE COUNTRY ALONG WITH ALL
THE INITIAL TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS.GOOD LUCK, AND HOPE MORE OF US CAN JOIN
YOU SOON.
JABOU JOH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:08:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: business ops. in Gambia
Message-ID: <970827100817_973505583@emout09.mail.aol.com>
TORSTEIN,
You haven't been around Gambia for very long but l must say that you have
figured out a lot of the problems that hinder development of the private
sector very accurately, especially your observation about "hidden agendas'
etc. You have some excellent suggestions and please do not hesitate to send
more. l have also long felt that some of the answers lie in private business
organizing themselves to attain their goals.Perhaps we have an organization
in the making here.
More business ideas:
18. Computer classes for children.
19. A moving company, can also offer delivery of furniture etc. to
businesses that sell heavy items that need to be delivered to customers.
Can rent to customers who prefer to move themselves.
20. Trucking company, deliver goods up-river as well as to Senegal,
including
refrigarated trucks for sea-food etc.
21. An event plannig company. Some of the Gov't functions l have attended
could use the services of a good event planner to handle some of the details
that can make or break an event.
22. A landscaping and garden center. Could offer to service indoor plants
sold to hotels and businesses ( fertilize, water, pest control etc) Can sell
vegetable seedlings to growers.
Will send more as l think of them.
Jabou.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:11:53 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: A catastrophe!..in response to racism, criticism
Message-ID: <01BCB30C.709DCAE0@dibi.qatar.net.qa>
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That was a great run down from the ground,Mr.Jallow! Thanks and keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:48:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gunjur@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gov't suport for well-digging etc
Message-ID: <970827104814_-267505987@emout15.mail.aol.com>
Pmj,
Your comment about self prepetuating expatriate donor agencies is exactly the
reason why l emphacised "conducting research and adopting methods appropriate
for our particular areas". We must find our own problems and cures. For years
l worked with these agencies and saw first hand how the best that came out of
"projects" in developing countries was the generation of employment for the
donor countries' citizens. As far as extension workers, you are quite
right.Back in 1980 when l had just joined the Pest Control Unit upon my
return from the U.S, the extension workers were just what you described. A
colleague nad l decided that as Plant Pathologists, we needed these guys to
collect plant and soil samples etc. for us up river and in other areas. We
decided to round up some of the guys from different areas of the country and
to conduct a training session for them at Lamin high school. My colleague,
Bakary Trawally and l did our best but soon found out that most of them had
no idea what we were talking about. l am glad that there is now a trained
corps of extension workers. Perhaps, along with
the extension worker's performance of their duties, one should also look at
how farmers respond to them. Some of the farmers were quite tickled that l, a
female was telling them how to conduct certain things. Even the women's
vegetable coop members would not respond to our offers of advice on crop
protection etc. One should look at perhaps conducting open meetings with
farmers to educate them about what exactly the purpose of the extension
worker is. Just some ideas, although you guys are much more current with the
situation l'm sure.
Jabou Joh.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:44:30 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: PMJ@COMMIT.GM, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: A catastrophe!..in response to racis
Message-ID: <TFSJHEBM@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Please fwd
I get most of my replies returned because I was told because of the =20
large numbers on the Gambia -L =2E Is that true?
My response
Pa M Jallow,
First you should be proud of your Name Jallow =2EIt is not supremacy or =20
tribalism=2E I am glad you made the comments to counter what LEE Jallow =20
said=2E At first I thought it was you until you intervened=2E To be racist=20=
is =20
wrong especially for a muslim like LEE =2E Our religious beliefs teach us =20=
=20
to the contrary so you need not apologize for cautioning & stopping our =20
brother Lee=2E
Secondly , my humble opinion is that as a structural engineer and a =20
fellow human and Gambian ( + muslim) I feel it is your obligation to =20
answer some of the questions raised (not by you) so that many of us also =20
as Gambians or interested parties will have some professional =20
explanations=2E Your fear is justified about people saying that you may be=20=
=20
sabotaging but if we want to please the whole world nothing will be said =20
or done=2E
Just give a general but related to the subject response without pointing =20
fingers=2E Every thing in the world is an act of God -Kun Fa Ya Koun - we =20=
=20
all know that=2E
Do as the Americans do in all legal matters , put a disclaimer at the =20
bottom in fine print
Brother Habib
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: PMJ@COMMIT=2EGM
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 9:50 AM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!=2E=2Ein response to racis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit=2Egm>
via Commit
Folks,
may I appeal to all to lay off first=2E=2Eon racist remarks=2E=2Eand second=2E=2E=
name
calling when we react=2E=2E
Mr=2E Modou Jallow=2E=2Eyou may have a point to make about unfounded info=2E=2E=
and
rumours but there is a decent acceptable way of making that point=2E=2Eyour
remarks were racist=2E=2Eand that is ignorant=2E=2Ewe all have lived and
experienced RACISM=2E=2EWHITE RACISM=2E=2Ebut that is no justification=2E=2E=
the =20
racists
are wrong=2E=2Elet us strive to be better=2E=2E
On behalf of us all, I apologise to all offended parties and let us get
over this=2E=2E
in all fairness, almost all our discourse is opinions and quite
subjective=2E=2Ebut that is the IDEA=2E=2Elet us exchange ideas and hopes=2E=2E=
those =20
of
us based here try to get you the gist of things here, so do not shoot the
messenger=2E=2E
another point=2E=2EFOLKS=2E=2Eit is very curious that all the Gambian Civil=
and
Structural Engineers (including me) have refrained from publicly voicing
out the probable causes for the Building catastrophe=2E=2EI have on several
occasions written some points but deleted them on second
thoughts=2E=2Ewhy=2E=2Ebecause =2E=2Ethere is a culture of SILENCE and
MASLAH=2E=2E(Toleration now to the poit of Hypocrisy)=2E=2Eand fear to OFFE=
ND and
of VICTIMISATION=2E=2Eit is a very small country=2E=2ECRITICISM in this cou=
ntry =20
is
wrongly called SABOTAGE=2E=2Ewhen you criticise=2E=2Eyou are accused of
SABOT=C9=2E=2E=2Efrench for SABOTAGE=2E=2Eit is sad but real=2E=2Eand the p=
rice is paid =20
by
this poor struggling nation=2E=2E=2Ethe benefit of the doubt is lost along=
=20
with
the opportunity=2E=2Emaybe It is time to open up ourselves and start actual=
ly
accepting CRITICISM=2E=2Eand be willing to defend our position RATIONALLY a=
nd
be willing to be WRONG and ADMIT to be WRONG=2E=2EIndividually and
NATIONALLY=2E=2Ethat is a first step to MATURITY=2E=2Eas the saying goes=2E=2E=
" you =20
are
not MATURE unti you know you have a RIGHT to make MISTAKES "
after saying all this, I will cap by adding that while Gambian =20
contractors
are publicly calling the accident an ACT of GOD, privately decrying the
design and the construction=2E=2Ethe two non-African=2E=2EIranian=2E=2ECivi=
l
engineering companies in The Gambia have rightly said that it is A or =20
B=2E=2Ea
design or construction failure and we need to investigate and see what =20
went
wrong in order to prevent this happening in the FUTURE=2E=2EI am ashamed to
admit that I have publicly refrained from making comments=2E=2Eand I am amp=
ly
qualified to do so=2E=2Ein both my public=2E=2ECivil Service Job and privat=
e=2E=2Eas =20
A
GAMBIAN=2E a MUSLIM, and A DEVELOPMENT ENGINEER capacity=2E=2E=2E
folks, it is time we ask ourselves WHY this is SO=2E=2E
Mr Ghanim, you strike me as a very experienced someone =2E=2E=2Ewhat do you
think? and Thanks for your kind mail to me=2E
by the way on a tribalist note=2E=2Eis this a JALLOW thing=2E=2Eor FULA
SUPREMACY=2E=2Ejust kidding=2E=2E
Peace
pmj
----------
apologies folks=2E=2Eif this message is a little outdated=2E=2EI am encount=
ering
problems connecting to my server=2E=2EGamtel ain't what it used to =20
be=2E=2E27/8/97
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 12:10:02 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: Gunjur@aol.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: business ops. in Gambia
Message-ID: <TFSJPWNY@nusacc.org>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Jarbou
Adding to your excellent contributions and comments , I must congratulate =20=
=20
you and say we are proud to have one of our SISTERS ( Amy !! ) thinking =20
positively for the benefit of the Gambia and sharing it with all of us=2E
My other options are
A=2E Hand pumps 4" - 6"
B=2E outboard engines for small fishermen(women -ladies!! )
C=2E millet and sorghum grinders
D small cold storage rooms ( or even kerosene refrigerators for the =20
villages without electricity or those who cannot afford generators=2E
E=2E small hand held agricultural tools( Senegal makes them)
F=2E manually operated carpenter's tools
How about a much needed TEMP agency to place the JJCees in any kind of =20
transitional Jobs=2E
=20
I have many more practical items but let us give some more brothers (& =20
sisters ) a chance to contribute also
Peace Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: Gunjur@aol=2Ecom
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 1997 10:04 AM
To: gambia-l@u=2Ewashington=2Eedu
Subject: Re: business ops=2E in Gambia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------=
=20
--
TORSTEIN,
You haven't been around Gambia for very long but l must say that you =20
have
figured out a lot of the problems that hinder development of the private
sector very accurately, especially your observation about "hidden =20
agendas'
etc=2E You have some excellent suggestions and please do not hesitate to =20
send
more=2E l have also long felt that some of the answers lie in private =20
business
organizing themselves to attain their goals=2EPerhaps we have an =20
organization
in the making here=2E
More business ideas:
18=2E Computer classes for children=2E
19=2E A moving company, can also offer delivery of furniture etc=2E to
businesses that sell heavy items that need to be delivered to customers=2E
Can rent to customers who prefer to move themselves=2E
20=2E Trucking company, deliver goods up-river as well as to Senegal,
including
refrigarated trucks for sea-food etc=2E
21=2E An event plannig company=2E Some of the Gov't functions l have attend=
ed
could use the services of a good event planner to handle some of the =20
details
that can make or break an event=2E
22=2E A landscaping and garden center=2E Could offer to service indoor plan=
ts
sold to hotels and businesses ( fertilize, water, pest control etc) Can =20
sell
vegetable seedlings to growers=2E
Will send more as l think of them=2E
Jabou=2E
**************************************
National U=2ES=2E-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N=2EW=2E
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D=2EC=2E 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1997 18:07:38 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Solar Bus Tour Begins in Greece
Message-ID: <227147742.443425855@inform-bbs.dk>
/* Written 12:33 AM Aug 22, 1997 by nobody@xs2.greenpeace.org in gp.press */
/* ---------- "Solar Bus Tour Begins in Greece" ---------- */
From: "greenbase" <greenbas@gb.greenpeace.org>
GREENPEACE STARTS 3,000 KM SOLAR BUS TOUR IN TURKEY
Turkey is not bound for darkness, a solar future is
possible now!
Istanbul, 21 August 1997 - The Greenpeace Mediterranean
Office today started a "Solar Tour" in a bus throughout
Turkey to show the people that electricity from sunlight
and other forms of solar energy can provide a large amount
of the country's energy needs.
The two-week bus tour will include visiting 15 different
locations. It will end in Istanbul on September 5th.
A photo exhibition in the solar truck illustrates the
negative impact of conventional energy resources such as
coal, oil and nuclear on the environment. It shows that a
safe energy future is only possible with energy efficiency
programmes and the use of renewable systems like solar and
wind power.
The Greenpeace solar truck has 2 x 200 Watt solar panels.
They will power energy saving light bulbs and electrical
appliances like a coffee machine, fridge, television,
video, computer, printer, etc. There is also a small 300
Watt wind turbine.
Activists will show short videos, discuss about solar
power versus fossil fuels and nuclear power. Brochures,
leaflets and reports ("Plugging into the Sun -
Kickstarting the Solar Age in Crete", "Turkey at an Energy
Cross Roads") will be distributed to interested people and
local officials.
"The solar age has already started in other countries like
Greece, while the Turkish government is planing to waste
billions of dollars in setting up nuclear power plants,"
said Melda Keskin, energy campaigner of Greenpeace
Mediterranean. "The plans to build the country's first
nuclear plant in Akkuyu along the Mediterranean coast must
be scrapped."
"Solar energy is not a myth as the pro-nuclear officials
in Turkey claim, but a reality. There are no technical,
but legal, institutional and political barriers that
prevent the alternative new energy resources from being
used," she said.
In November 1996, Greenpeace Greece installed solar panels
on a school in Crete. Seven months later this gave birth
to a whole network of solar schools in Greece. The Greek
Ministry of Environment said last June that it will fund
solar power in a total of 50 schools. Last May, Greenpeace
installed a solar system on a high school in the Spanish
island of Mallorca.
Last June 12, solar power entered a new era with the Greek
Governments' decision to begin the construction of the
world's largest solar photovoltaic (PV) power station on
the island of Crete. The photovoltaic technology generates
electricity directly from daylight.
The planned solar power station is part of a two year
campaign by Greenpeace to transform Crete into a solar
powered island. The 50 Megawatt (MW) power station will be
completed by 2003 and will cost 17.75 million dollars.
It would be fifteen times larger than any other solar PV
installation in the world, be more than four times cheaper
than the average costs of grid connected PV, and provide
electricity for nearly 100,000 people, an eighth of
Crete's population.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1997 18:03:46 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: HEALTH: WHO Detects New Influenza Strain in Humans
Message-ID: <3431006174.443425602@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 22-Aug-97 ***
Title: HEALTH: WHO Detects New Influenza Strain in Humans
By Gustavo Capdevila
GENEVA, Aug 22 (IPS) - The influenza virus detected in a young boy
who died in Hong Kong is a new strain previously unknown in
humans, the World Health Organisation (WHO) reported this week in
Geneva.
But the U.N. agency clarified that there was no indication that
the new flu virus, type A (H5N1), was spread through person to
person contact.
A team of scientists from the United States travelled this week
to the former British colony which was recently handed back to
China, to participate in research being carried out by a group of
Japanese experts.
Doctor Daniel Lavanchy with the WHO Division of Emerging and
other Communicable Diseases Surveillance and Control said that for
now there was no need for the adoption of special measures.
''There is no indication at present that this strain has spread
from person to person,'' he underlined.
The case that appeared in May was the only one detected among
human beings. Up to now, the A (H5N1) strain had only been found
in birds.
The three-year-old boy suffered from Reye syndrome, and died of
acute respiratory illness.
WHO explained that Reye syndrome, ''involving the central
nervous system and the liver, is a rare complication in children
who have ingested salicylates (i.e. Aspirin); it occurs mainly in
children with influenza type B and less frequently in children
with influenza type A or chickenpox.''
The U.N. body ensured that it is closely monitoring the
development of the disease, and that it is working in close
collaboration with the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region's
Influenza Centre and Department of Health.
The four WHO Collaborating Centres for Reference and Research
on Influenza in Atlanta, USA, London, UK, Melbourne, Australia,
and Tokyo, Japan, and the National Influenza Centre in the
Netherlands are participating in the research.
Efforts are being made in Hong Kong and other parts of southern
China to determine whether other people have been infected with
the new flu virus, but no other case in humans has been
discovered.
The scientists from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta sent to Hong Kong will conduct
extensive research in conjunction with the WHO Collaborating
Centre at the National Institute of Infectious Diseases in Tokyo,
Japan.
The two groups of researchers will advise the Hong Kong Health
Department on evaluating the scope of the discovery and its public
health implications. (END/IPS/TRA-SO/PC/FF/SW/97)
Origin: Montevideo/HEALTH/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1997 18:11:55 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Beijing Conference Followup #94
Message-ID: <3169247135.443497605@inform-bbs.dk>
/* Written 2:58 PM Aug 22, 1997 by iwtc@igc.org in women.news */
/* ---------- "Globalnet 94" ---------- */
GLOBALNET 94
International Women's Tribune Centre, 777 United Nations Plaza, New York,
NY 10017, Tel: (1-212) 687-8633. Fax: (1-212) 661-2704 .
e-mail: iwtc@igc.apc.org
WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO SHARE THIS INFORMATION WITH YOUR NETWORKS.
August 22, 1997
by Anne S. Walker
INTERNATIONAL YEAR FOR WOMEN'S HUMAN RIGHTS, NATIONAL PLANS OF ACTION, AND
APOLOGIES ONCE AGAIN TO GLOBALNET READERS!
International Year for Women's Human Rights. It appears that two resolutions
are already before the Third Committee of the General Assembly concerning
the designation of the Year 2000 as both an International Year of
Thanksgiving
and an International Year of the Culture of Peace. If you are interested
in lobbying for an International Year for Women's Human Rights, contact your
government's delegate(s) to the UN Economic and Social Committee (ECOSOC) and
/or to the Third Committee of the General Assembly (economic and social comm
ittee) and talk to them about the idea. A resolution will then have to be
written and presented to ECOSOC by a sponsoring country.
List of National Plans of Action and Strategies Received by the UN Division
for the Advancement of Women (UN/DAW) (as of August 14, 1997). The Beijing
Platform for Action in paragraph 297 called on all governments to develop
implementation strategies or plans of action for the Platform. UN/DAW asked
all UN Member States to supply copies of these plans to them. To date the
following 58 countries and 1 Observer State have developed action plans:
Algeria; Australia; Bahrain; Belarus; Bolivia*; Botswana; Brazil; Bulgaria;
Burkina Faso; Canada; Chile; China; Colombia; Congo; Denmark; Egypt;
El Salvador; Finland; France; Germany; Haiti*; Indonesia; Iran; Iraq; Israel;
Italy; Japan; Jordan; Lebanon; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Mali; Malta; Mexico;
Morocco; New Zealand; Niger; Norway; Oman; Panama; Paraguay*; Peru*
Philippines; Poland; Republic of Korea; Romania; Russian Federation; Spain;
Sweden; Syrian Arab Republic; Thailand; Tunisia; Turkey; UK; United Arab
Emirates; United Republic of Tanzania; USA; Venezuela. Observers: Palestine.
(*= information received on the state of preparation of sectoral
plans/national priorities.). There are 185 Member States in the United
Nations.
For further information on national plans of action for women, visit the UN
World Wide Web site at <http://www.un.org./womenwatch> or e-mail them at:
<womenwatch@un.org>. Fax: (1-212) 963-3463.
Directory of Pacific Women: The second edition of the Directory, containing a
list of skilled women and major resource sources for women's development in
the Pacific region, is currently in its final editing stages and should be
off
the press next month. The Pacific Women's Resource Bureau has already
received
many enquiries about the directory following the mention of it in Global
Faxnet
93, and are delighted by the response, but ask for your patience! Contact
Debbie Singh, Information Officer for PWRB/SPC: Fax: (687) 26-38-18 or e-mail
<debbies@spc.org.nc>.
Corrections: In Global Faxnet #92, in the paragraph on the International
Conference on Governance for Sustainable Growth and Equity, 28-30 July 1997,
we inadvertently omitted Africa from the list of regions in the second line
of
text. Women from Africa were very much in evidence at the conference, and
were
amongst the most articulate and forceful in speaking out on the importance of
integrating gender perspectives into every aspect of governance. The omission
was a typing error.
Also in Global Faxnet #92, in the paragraph on Expert Group Meetings (EGMs),
we stated that the UN Commission on the Status of Women session to be
held from 2-13 March 1998 would be the 50th session. This is not correct. It
will be the 42nd session of the CSW. 1998 is the 50th anniversary of the
Universal Declaration on Human Rights, and many commemorative events are
planned by women's human rights groups to mark this occasion.
Finally, a note about GlobalNet #93. Due to a technical error beyond our
control, recipients of GlobalNet received multiple copies of #93 and many
of you contacted us begging for mercy... We are sincerely sorry, and again
assure you that it will not happen again. The problem has been resolved,
leaving us all the wiser and suitably humbled once again by the caprice
of technology.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:15:08 -0500
From: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Which Way Forward (Part 2 of 2)
Message-ID: <199708271915.OAA06722@tower.itis.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi folks,
a couple of days ago, i sent the first of a 2-part reply to the debate
going on about which way The Gambia should take to develop.
the first part mainly presented a brief overview of Gambia socio-economic
indicators since independence. in addition, restated the case for The
Gambia turning her attention to technological development, specifically
information technologies.
to poison your minds even more, i provided 2 examples of what i consider
the first prerequisite to progress: attitude. both examples were aimed at
showing the high stakes in the information technology industry, and the
enormous money to be made by those who have the right attitude and take the
calculated risks.
in this second, and final part, i will turn to what i think we can do as a
nation, and individually, to get us going in the right direction, and
position us to be an economic powerhouse in the next 20-odd years. again,
i will include as many examples as i can to show that what i'm talking
about in reference to the future in The Gambia is being done *right now* by
a lot of people around the world.
when it comes to building an information technology industry, *the* model
to copy is that of Silicon Valley in California. sometimes called just
'The Valley', this area is a stretch roughly 50 miles long (approx. Banjul
to Sibanor), and extending from San Franciso to San Jose.
Silicon Valley is home to 2m people, and about 6,000 high-tech companies,
according to a recent survey published in The Economist (March 29, 1997).
the GDP of the Valley was reported at $65 billion, or about the same as
that of Chile, a country of 15m people. The Valley has been so well
lately, riding the wave of the Internets' explosive growth, that in 1996
one Valley company went public (started selling shares to the public) every
five days, according to a recent article in Business Week (Aug. 25, 1997).
in the process 62 new millionaires were created every 24 hours. numbers
like these attract attention, and The Valley has sure been getting it's
fair share.
even though The Valley is more known for it's information technologies,
other sectors have also been making significant contributions to the pot of
soup. certainly companies like Oracle, Intel, and Apple contribute to this
reputation. however, the region is also a powerhouse when it comes to
biotechnology and environmental engineering.
the phenomenal success of Silicon Valley has provoked a keen interest in
understanding how they came to be so successful. The recent Economist
article (Mar. 29, 1997) referred to earlier listed a number of factors that
contributed to this success.
among these 'vital intangibles' are tolerance of failure, willingness to
take risks, reinvestment in the community, enthusiasm for change, and
promotion on merit. in addition, people there loved collaborating, the
industry had ample variety of companies, and was open to anyone that wanted
in.
tolerating failure, and a willingness to take risks are two sides of the
same coin. for example, it's been estimated that only 1 in 20 start-up
companies will hit the jackpot. this means that the other 19 will be
outright failures, or just be so-so. despite these odds, Silicon Valley
financiers (called venture capitalists) have not been held back from
funding these young companies. According to The Economist (Mar. 29, 1997)
one Silicon Valley venture capital firm invested around $1 billion to help
start 250 companies that. in 1995 these companies had revenues of $44
billion, and are worth $85 billion. these guys know what they're doing.
another important attribute of the Valley is it's openness to anybody.
indeed, foreigners (especially Asians) are big players there. for example,
Business Week (Aug. 25, 1997) reported that Silicon Valley has about 1,500
Asian American-owned tech companies, with the top 30 of having a market
value of $25 billion. that's a lot of money.
needless to say, a everyone is trying to copy the Silicon Valley
phenomenon. whether you're talking about Silicon Hills (centered around
Austin, Texas), Silicon Glen (in Scotland), Bangalore (India), or
Malaysia's' Multimedia Super Corridor, everyone wants a piece of the
action. and it's all to do with the fact that there's a lot of money to be
made in the information technology sector, and there's even more money to
be made in the years to come.
so what does all this mean for The Gambia? well, let's begin by redefining
the task at hand. a few years ago, The Economist reported a Dutch study
that found that a total of 400 skills are needed to run a modern economy.
if you think about it, it's pretty tough to come up with 400 skills that
Gambians *can* do! i guess i'm not helping matters much by raising the bar
a bit.
but don't despair, the point i'm trying to make here is that after attitude
(which we talked about earlier), the next prerequisite to progress is
skills, or a trained manpower. in other words, education. even though we
have a very high illiteracy rate in The Gambia, all is not lost, if we play
our cards right.
it is evident that we need a pool of people who are not only literate, but
also numerate. this raises the issues of not only education in general,
but also science and technology education. a number of brilliant
contributions have been sent here from Latjor and Co that, i think, can
form the basis for developing a science and tech education curriculum.
at the risk of digressing a little, i would like to say that science
education has also to be developed in conjunction with a *culture* of
science. to this end, science education programming should be revamped in
the mass media. we can have a totally different thread of discussions on
that issue.
but, back to the business of developing education to build and information
technology-savvy Gambia. let's begin with the basics. i suggest we take a
close look at Singapore's' vocational training programs. a book called
'Vocational Training and the Labour Market: South-East Asia' (A. Siddiqui,
Ed. ILO, 1993) highlights that island states' various vocational training
programs aimed at improving skilled manpower needed for the shift from an
entre-pot trade-based economy to a skill-intensive manufacturing driven
one.
i think Singapore's' Continuing Education and Training (CET) for workers is
something we should take a serious look at. this program is used to update
and retrain workers in response to changing market needs, and consists of 4
programs. these are Basic Education Skills Training (BEST), Worker
Improvement Through Secondary Education (WISE), Modular Skills Training
(MOST), and Training Initiative for Mature Employees (TIME). these guys
know how to come up with catchy acronyms.
the BEST program is especially appealing to me because it seems to offer
the key to increasing our literacy rates (including the adult populations')
in a hurry. BEST was launched by Singapore to raise the basic literacy and
numeracy skills of workers with less than primary education, a category
under which most Gambians fall.
creating a good-sized pool Gambians that can read and write and do basic
math would open up possibilities for them to be employable in the lower
rungs of the information industry ladder. i have in mind the setting up of
Gambian data entry and processing companies that will help companies around
the world convert information from paper to electronic formats.
for example, an article in The Economist (Jan. 21, 1995) reported that
Airline Support Services in Bombay, India computerizes all Swissair's'
paper work. It would have costed Swissair 25 times more, if the job was
done in Switzerland. before you think that the computerization involved
takes a lot, let me remind you that all that is required most of the time
is people with typing skills, and data entry experience to transfer
information from airline ticket coupons to company databases.
the other educational aspect of positioning The Gambia for an information
technology-based economy would regard middle- and upper-level skills.
these levels will mean training for anything from computer-aided design,
computer programming, database management, and such stuff. i imagine that
after a number of years of low-level work, we can gradually ramp-up to grow
a crop of people that will be skilled in these areas. this means that the
quality of education available from the likes of GTTI and Gambia College
will have to be designed with growth (both in enrollment, and quality) in
mind.
developing a pool of information technology-savvy workers can pay off
nicely. for example, The Economist (Mar. 29, 1997) article on Silicon
Valley said that India's high-tech industry employs 140,00 people in 600
companies. Bangalore alone rakes in up to $280 million worth of software
development work contracted from Silicon Valley. furthermore, between
12,000 and 15,000 Indian information technology graduates are sent to the
US annually according to The Economist (Mar. 29, 1997).
this means that India is well on it's way to strengthening its' position in
the information technology industry by creating communities on both sides
of the ocean that will all work toward that countries greater good. this
is easy to imagine given the vital role the vibrant Indian expatriate
community in Silicon Valley can play in steering contracts toward India.
besides education, The Gambia should take a close look at attracting
private investments, and information industry companies. this is a little
bit more tricky, given that we have to deal with a lot of stereotypes, and
a history of bad attitude and poor judgment on our part. certainly, it's
going to take some work to convince people that we have put groundnuts
behind. also, we need to convince people that we deserve the money they
have to invest more than, say, Senegal. to do that, we have to convince
people that we would not only give them attractive returns on their
investments, but also guarantee that they will be safe from civil strife,
changes in government, and erratic and dumb policies.
we can also begin by taking a close look at what other countries like
Malaysia are doing. Malaysia has embarked on building what they call a
Multimedia Super Corridor (MSC) aimed at attracting information
technology-companies to make that country the hub of their Asian
operations. MSC (check them out at http://mdc.cinenet.net) has created a
lot of interest and excitement, and probably even more importantly a buzz,
in the industry. by a 'buzz' a mean an atmosphere where people are talking
about you. you see, when they are talking about Malaysia and their MSC,
they are *not* talking about The Gambia. the buzz is a good tool for
helping fight stereotypes, and creating a positive atmosphere in which
people can evaluate opportunities for investing in your company, or
country.
before i wrap this up, i would also like to touch on how important it is
that we develop a *culture* of entrepreneurship in The Gambia. for too
long, we have been more than happy with getting a job, a wife and a family.
the thought of creating a company that will employ people, do or make
stuff, and make a difference has never occurred to many Gambians. we need
to change that.
in developing a business culture we also need to renew the attitudes of
business people in The Gambia. for too long, the business success in The
Gambia typically meant that you had to have at least 2 wives, one or two
girlfriends, and a Benz. no wonder, overnight sensations faded out in a
matter of 2 or so years.
the role of the government in all this has to be re-evaluated. it is my
view that governments' role is to facilitate the processes, and provide the
safety and security of institutions that govern the rule of law. thus, the
government itself should think like an entrepreneur to help them do better;
it should also provide a vision of the future around which people can
develop their companies; and it should finally offer those people who have
put their money in the country the peace of mind to sleep at night.
i guess that's about all for now. i'll be more than happy to hear your
thoughts on the matter. i'm going to shut up for a while now. however,
the debate and dialogue should go on.
thanks.
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:40:38 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: ECOWAS, US, S/Leone
Message-ID: <01BCB33A.C2EE3F40@difd.qatar.net.qa>
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Bass, I have to disagree here. The criteria here for sanctioning coup
d'etats is too subjective. We have to decide whether or not we want to
work by the democratic process, i.e. are we ready for it, or not. Once
we decide on it we must abide by it. Period.
*************************************************************************=
******************
Democracy all the way is fine with me Latir, but could you please =
explain to us an effective strategy that would help us get rid of a =
democratically elected black leader(Cheluba) who would do almost =
anything to make sure that he is not Dethroned by the very process that =
Enthroned him in the first place. You see,I agree fully with Klaus =
Kinkel,the German Foreign Minister,when he said that the enemies of =
Democracy should be denied the good things that Democracy has to =
offer.Our friend,Fafa Jawara,would still have been aging and sleeping at =
State House in Banjul had some Gambians not found a cute way of sending =
him into retirement. So,how do we deal with such pathologies? Or are =
you suggesting that,for the sake of democracy, we should have left him =
there until he died and another thief,Saihou Sabally,take his place?! I =
don't think so! This is why I cannot agree to applying democracy on =
someone who does not want democracy be applied on him.
Keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:41:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: Collapsed Building
Message-ID: <970827163802_365531652@emout09.mail.aol.com>
Badera, I could'nt agree with you more, we are all concern when something
tragic like this happenned non the less questions have to be asked and
answered and let the chips fall where they may. Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Daddy Sang
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:14:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: Dekat (fwd)
Message-ID: <199708272114.RAA26288@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
I am impressed by the amount of interest generated by Katim's Dekat. Unlike
other contributors, I will deliberately avoid the issue of chosing
between Information techonolgy and agriculture. Instead I will try and
address a few issue of how to make agriculture more meaningful. I take
that approach because of many reasons already outline by earlier
contributors. To mention a few, we still have over 75% of our
population living in the countryside with little or no trade except
farming. Also with land resources the only meaningful resources,
directly accessible to majority of able Gambians, agriculture still
presents a strong option for the country to take.
First let me declare that I am not an expert in economics or
agriculture. However, I am of the opion that the state of agriculture
in the Gambia today is an unintended effect of hte government's
economic development strategies. I do not think planners were wrong in
believing that for a newly independent country like the Gambia, land
area one Million, population under one Million, one city, one road,
one river, with not even one equiped hospital, college or high school,
the best way to go about the business of making a living in this
world is for the government to generate enough money and quickly to
build some of the infrastructure.
The concept is perfectly OK if strategies are adapted to changing
situations both within and outside the country. Decisions about policy
and strategies must be based on sound technical and econonmic
principles.
I believe the fundamental problem with the policy today is the government's
Inability to adapt to changing environment: Whether natural,
social or economic evironment, agricultural planning and development
was not quick enough to respond to changing conditions. An example is the
rice devlopment projects. While rice may be our ultimate dream food
crop, we must be aware of the changing environmental conditions.
Reduced irrigation potential of river Gambia, and salt water
intrusion all of which are attributed to persistent droughts should
all be warning signs that rice may after all not be economically and
environmentally viable option for the Gambia. Another example of inability
to adapt is in the area of our choice of cash crop. PEANUT. Despite
the crop's poor performance as a cash earner and a survivor under our
environmental conditions, there is little evidence of planners serious
questioning its suitability.
While the farmers are aware of this the government had always been too
slow to respond especially in supporting existing farmer innovations,
aggressively seeking markets for farmer produce and facilitating
processing and storage services. To name a few farmer initiatives is
the lamb fattening programs. This is certainly successful but should
expanded to cattle, horses and donkeys. There currently (around 1993)
few farmers in the North Bank with inspiration from Senegalese counterparts,
who are raising a few cattle in their back yards to produce milk and
meat. Private individuals should be encouraged through tax exemption,
credit or other means to expand this. This may be our key to
self-sufficiency in meat production. The same applies to horse and
donkey breeding. Another important area is seeking markets for produce
and goods. Given that we are no more than 1 Million we need the
outside world to survive. In the past governments have done a poor job
helping our farmers sell their crops. The LOOMOS were a great idea and
every effort should be made to push their activity beyond Senegal. A
question I always ask is how can commercial farms sell their mangos in
Europe when our petite farmer can't take them to Kaolack?
Vegetables gardening is probably the most viable option in the Gambia
today if preservation and marketing are sorted out. Even without
mechanised systems or boreholes there is over production of many vegetables
.. Farmers adapt to the situation by avoiding the unpopular or
perishable ones. Even with modest investment in storage and
preservation farmers can improve their earnings considerably.
I got to go!
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:07:39 +0100
From: "<PMJ@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: new developments & brief..catastophe
Message-ID: <B0000004951@south.commit.gm>
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Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Folks,
First I want to apologise to Mr. Modou Jallow..or was it Lee who made the
racist remarks..anyway I am confused as to who did what..but I apologise to
any party offended in my last mail..
then onward to new development..
a good something or challenge to this nation is if all of us..the lucky few
that are trained can engage in some of wealth creation..business.a very
good and new development has been Govt.s approval for our very few medical
doctors to register and operate private clinics..this is good because on
one hand..this allows them to earn more than the poor civil servant
salary..which believe me folks..is not good enough..one cannot take care of
one's family..for example..a qualified Engineer or medical doctor on D2500
per month cannot afford to give the minimum healthcare and nutrition to a
new born baby and nursing mother..and this individual does know better..by
virtue of his/her training and exposure..this individual can earn atleast
3 x more in the private sector in The Gambia but will cut off the mass of
Gambians who still depend on Govt. provided Service..
therefore allowing him to work privately and pay taxes as well as offer
his/her services through govt. is a win-win situation..medical doctors in
The Gambia do not get proportionally the fair share of societal and
financial reward..this amounts to aprox. D5000 per month from Govt. and
about D10,000 from private practice..some can even afford to more than
occasionally offer free medical services to poorer neighbourers and
relatives...
so now more of our new and younger doctors can afford to stay in Govt.
services with or without providing private services..
on the other hand..other services like Lawyers, Engineers, Accountants are
still faced with the stiff regulations that are apt for Western countries
where conflict of interest is worth legislating against Civil Servants
having private jobs..there..they do have nearly enough of the skilled
personnel they require..here we may have 1 for every 50 we need..
so I think if the new policy for doctors is expanded for most professional
services..this country will gain rather than lose..especially in view of
the fact that all these persons will create a minimum of 1 extra person...
of course it will be illegal to give contracts to concerns one has
financial interest in..and transgressors must be punished..
I was shocked to discover that an Accountant with an ACCA with the Govt.
earns approx. D2300 per month compared with a counterpart at Shell or Elf
or the Audit firms..D10-15,000 per month..it is no surprise that almost 95%
leave after serving a year bonding resulting of course in poor Govt.
accounts and audit procedures..it is the same story in most professions..we
use Govt. to get Training and leave for greener pastures..
Govt. should try to reduce the lure by changing those rules that may be
required in the West but are disastrous for Govt. and the individuals
affected..
any comments...and to sum up..if Katim of DEKAT could innovate some more
like this FORUM..and all of us try something similar maybe we can move this
country forward..
Bye for now and Peace
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:45:53 -0000
From: "<TGR@COMMIT.GM>" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: A catastrophe!..in response to racism, criticism
Message-ID: <B0000004996@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
via Commit
After thinking a while about my "news-mails" I see that I could have
been more clear in stating that this was my personal experience,
and could contain errors.I guess a disclaimer of some sort is a good
thing to include if information is second-hand.
My apologies for that.
Torstein
Commit
The Gambia
>Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow"
>Folks,
>may I appeal to all ...
>Mr. Modou Jallow..you may have a point to make about unfounded info..and
rumours..
>Peace
>pmj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 03:17:34 -0400
From: Yusupha AK Ceesay <yusupha@elephantwalk.com>
To: "'Gambia L'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: To Badara Joof
Message-ID: <01BCB361.1D113D80@remote113.channel1.com>
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I did not mean that people should not talk about it. What I meant was =
that why should we speculate if we don't even know what happen. Yes =
everyone is saying is a bad way of the construction but can we proof it. =
The logic sense to that is do any of think that the contractors will do =
that by knowing that their life is in that building if it ever fall.
Please let us get reasons and proofs on such things before rushing to =
conclusions
Thanks always in touch.
Yus
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