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Momodou
Denmark
11512 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:53:59
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GAMBIA-L Digest 98
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) New members
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
2) Dr Ebrahim M. Samba contender for top WHO job
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
3) SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
4) SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela Mandela - part 1
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
5) How do I retreive old postings
by Nyang Njie <st0021@student-mail.jsu.edu>
6) New Member
by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
7) THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS (AI INDEX: AFR 27/05 (fwd)
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
8) The EL NINO and Africa
by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
9) Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
10) Re: greetings
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
11) Re: How do I retreive old postings
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
12) Delist Member
by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
13) Re: Introduction
by "Fanneh" <fannehm@eng.und.ac.za>
14) Zone II - Trophy bound for Bamako - The end of the Road
by "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
15) SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela - Part 2.
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
16) Re: greetings
by habib <hghanim@erols.com>
17) Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!!
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
18)
by "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net>
19) Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
by TOURAY 1 <TOURAY1@aol.com>
20) Seeking Hotel Info
by Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
21) Re: New members
by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
22) Re: Zone II commentary from the arm chair: Semis and Finals and Signing Off
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
23) Re: SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
24) Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
25) ECOWAS web site
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
26) Human Rights Violations
by Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
27) World Bank's Summer Employment Program
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
28) Re: Human Rights Violations
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
29) Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!!
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
30) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
31) Re: The EL NINO and Africa
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
32) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
33) New members
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
34) Hi
by Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se>
35) Re: Hi
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
36) Hi
by Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se>
37) PLEASE SUBSCRIBE
by "ebrima drameh" <njogou@hotmail.com>
38) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
39) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by YAIKAH MARIE JENG <yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
40) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu>
41) Re: Hi
by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
42) Re: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
43) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
44) Subcription
by Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
45) Re: Subcription
by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
46) Fwd: mail to gambia-l
by Jkrubally <Jkrubally@aol.com>
47) new member
by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
48) SV: Is It In Our Nature?
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
49) New Members
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
50) RE: Is It In Our Nature?
by Sailey_Sey <SeyS@husson.edu>
51) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
52) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome
by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
53) Re: New Members
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
54) Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
55) Gambia educational Support Organization -final call for comments.
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
56) Gambia Educational Support Plan -final call for comments
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
57) new member
by "latjor ndow" <latjor@hotmail.com>
58) Re: Is It In Our Nature?
by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
59) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome
by Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com>
60) Wolof Expressions Request
by Mamadi Corra <MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU>
61) RE: Wolof Expressions Request
by Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com>
62) Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature?
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
63) Re: introduction
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
64) Babading Sissoho
by habib <hghanim@erols.com>
65) Re: Babading Sissoho
by "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
66) Re: Dr. Nyang's response on slavery
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
67) Re: Subcription
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
68) Re: Babading Sissoho
by habib <hghanim@erols.com>
69) [Fwd: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)]
by "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com>
70) Re: Babading Sissoho
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
71) introduction
by lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu>
72) introduction
by lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu>
73) Christmas Greetings
by Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca>
74) John =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bojang=B4s?= Meeting With The Gambian Community In
Stockholm
by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
75) Re: introduction
by ABA LM <ABALM@aol.com>
76) New Member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
77) The case of Babanding Fatty - Compensation after seven years
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
78) Re: introduction
by Paul Jammeh <st2063@student-mail.jsu.edu>
79) Re: introduction
by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
80) Virtual Flower Bouquet Delivery
by Astrid Christensen-Tasong via the Virtual Florist <attatas@hotmail.com>
81) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome
by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
82)
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_John_Bojang=B4s_Meeting_With_The_Gambian_?=
by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
83) Article published in the Observer in 1995. Written BY Michael
B.B.J. Gomez
by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
84) Re: Intorduction
by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com>
85) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century
by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:59:22 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New members
Message-ID: <19971207115946.AAA35836@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings,
Omar Jobe, Lamin Jaiteh and Malang Maane have all been added to the
list. Welcome to Gambia-l. You can send a brief introduction. Our
address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
regards
Momodou Camara
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:12:27 -0500 (EST)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Dr Ebrahim M. Samba contender for top WHO job
Message-ID: <199712071612.LAA06705@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
Gambia's Ebrahim M. Samba, the regional director for Africa of the World Health Organisation, is among seven medical doctors vying for the post of Director-General of the world body.
details in PANA online http://www.africanews.org/west/gambia/stories/
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:29:15 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
Message-ID: <199712072247.XAA11619@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mr. Mbai,
Your remarks cannot be improved upon. Maybe this was a wake-up call.
Victory will not just come by because it is wished, never mind the
excitement. Like everything else, we have to work hard and long to have a
rightful claim to the trophy. Cheers to the armchair comentators.
Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
----------
> Från: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
> Datum: den 7 december 1997 02:08
>
> Guys,
> I think it is very premature to suggest a reorganization of the
> management and the coaching staff. Just a few days ago, these coaches
were
> doing such a wonderful job according to postings on this list. Why then
> should we suggest a dismantling of the organization's hierarchy when we
do
> not even know what went wrong. Maybe Mali just had a better team. If i
> remember very well, Archibald, who is based in The Gambia, was very
> impressed with Mali from the get-go. I am making these statements because
> having played for and with Alhagie Sillah, i know him to be one of the
most
> competent coaches in The Gambia. Let's give the brother a chance. Our
team
> wasn't assembled until a couple of months ago.
> My recommendation is that we need some technical analysis of the
job
> done by the coaching staff, and the managerial skills of the management
> staff before we judge their performance. For that matter, i ask Sam
Thorpe
> (former coach of Augustinians Football Club) who is a member of this list
to
> give us a breakdown of what happened and who, if anybody, is to blame for
> our demise at the semi-finals.
> To The Gambian international players who went back home to play,
i
> say, keep up the patriotism. Thank you infinitely for a wonderful job and
> CONGRATULATIONS BIG TIME!!! We need more people like you guys. Better
luck
> next time!!! GO SCORPIONS!!!!!!
> To masters Pa Musa and Archi, thanx for a job well done. Bravo
> guys!!!!!
> Enjoy the rest of the weekend everybody. Peace!!!!!
> It's Tamsir.
>
> At 12:25 PM 12/6/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >Bass wrote
> >
> >>In the end,it was not to be.With all the euphoria,excitement and
> >>outpouring of nationalistic feelings,the Scorpions,as we all now
> >>know, do not have that killer instinct required to win the
> >>Cup.So,maybe a total overhaul or at least a reorganisation of the
> >>entire soccer machinery in the land is in order.The present one has
> >>done a good job but quite clearly not good enough!
> >
> >Yes, there definitely needs to be a total reorganization of the
> >management and the coaching staff. We definitely have the
> >talent to win these tournaments. Getting to semi-finals alone is not
> >the objective.
> >
> >Ousman
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:43:54 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela Mandela - part 1
Message-ID: <199712072247.XAA11622@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry,
Come on, you do not need to apologise for these sorts of delays. Time is
very scarce, and when we have any it turns out to be always too short. That
is why I am often away from my keyboard. But thanks a lot, anyway.
The last thing first. Sister Jabou calls Kartong a fishing village. Her
native Gunjur being the biggest fishing station in the entire Kombo South,
it was a pure case of the pot calling.....And now you too. You see, my last
statement about Bass' alkaloship was an unfortunate one. All I wanted to
say was just that Kartong has a true reputation; and that Serre-kunda,
Latri-kunda, Dippa-kunda, Manjai-kunda, Dippa-kunda, Faaji-kunda (and the
rest) are incapable of building a unique reputation because they are so
geographically undistinguishable! Besides, Bass appoints himself your
supreme alkali - in this age of democratisation. We definitely hope you
will deal with that potential dictatorship first before agreeing on any
sort of visa restrictions for the rest of us Gambians???
Well, back to Winnie Madikizela-Mandela...The points you raised are quite
interesting, salient, and many. So I will do my best to be brief.
1. I also sympathise with Winnie Mandela, like everybody else. But I should
not want to see her as head of the ANC, not only because I suspect she
committed crimes but also because her politics could be more damaging to
South Africa (and the rest of Africa consequently) than that which obtains
now. Your highlighting WM's trials and triumphs is a wonderful thing. We
must keep that flame alive. But we must also recognise that she, like most
peolple in the leadership, ought to have kept a clear head and remained
firm and resolute. I mean for instance, that the firm belief that Apartheid
would come to an ignoble end one day, and therefore a day of reckoning must
come, should have been a principle sufficient enough to guide her judgement
in politics as well as in ethics.
2. You say that my claims of WMscomfortable life was perhaps subjective.
Yes, perhaps. But the objective fact is that at least 75% of her
constituency is just poor and needy of the basics of life. For many South
Africans, lifebuoy soap was a luxury! I cannot agree with you that Africans
are willing to make sacrifices in order that their leaders could live
comfortably because these latter sacrifice a great deal for them. I should
not like to interpret the automatic generosity of Africans in that way.
This is in fact a moral question. My belief is that a leader's lifestyle
should as reasonably as is possible reflect that of the majority of her
people. Did not Great Madiba (Nelson Mandela) himself refuse to live in
WM's villa? (I also remember Thomas Sankara, and Julius Nyerere). Besides,
your formula could be a recipe for exploitation?
3. All over Africa, people rush with buckets of water when a neighbour's
house is on fire. That WM's neighbours did not do so has only one
interpretation. They wanted the house burnt down. They got sick and tired
of the terror the so-called football team spread in the township. The ANC
and its internal wing, the UDF were very powerful forces in the townships
those days, so you just do not go about speaking ill of 'mama'. But you
could watch her house turn to ashes. That is no crime against the comrades.
4. Yes, in many countries espionage is punishable by death or a life
sentence; and yes, a fourteen-year old could be in this respect as damaging
as a nonagenarian. On June 12, 1986,former prsident PW Botha sent the army
into the township to enforce the state of emergency restrictions he
announced the same evening. This was in an effort to prevent the planned
massive uprising against the monster four days hence - june 16, Soweto day.
Within days 24,000 people were arrested and detained, many of them children
as young as ten, like my son Cherno. A great deal of them were beaten and
tortured, sometimes with electric shock on their genitals. Torturing
children demonstrates the legendary insularity of the South African police.
As I wrote earlier, Stompie was fourteen and he was AFRAID. As a leader and
as a trained social worker, it was WM's duty to comfort. Not to sanction
killing him or hurting him in any way.
Hey, Buharry, its getting late and I got to go. There are three or
four more points to answer. I will take those and then give my conclusion
tomorrow. Sorry for keeping you hanging.
Best Wishes, and good night.
Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
----------
> Från: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: Re: SV: Winnie Madizela Mandela
> Datum: den 6 december 1997 09:11
>
> Hi Momodou!
> I have to first of all apologise for not replying the day after your
> post as promised but we have had extra courses at work and I was so
> tired when I came home that I just couldn´t write anything.
> Before going further, I have to acknowledge the perspective you brought
> to the issue. I however still sympathise with Winnie like Bass, Jabou,
> others on the list and millions of grassroots South Africans.
> One of the points you raised was that Winnie had it much more
> comfortable than millions of others. I think that comfort is very
> subjective. You are right in the sense that at times she had comfortable
> accomodation and many privileges compared to others. That is the
> privilege enjoyed by leaders and their spouses because they are held in
> high esteem because of the sacrifices they are making and people
> willingly sacrifice to make it easier for them. There is another side
> however. Millions of others were not forced to put their food on
> sanitary buckets, see their husbands´ feet for the first time in 21
> years, never take their children to school because they would break a
> banning order, be married for over two decades and never truly
> experience married life, banished to a remote place where one knows
> nobody, having to live with the psychological burden of knowing that one
> is followed and watched daily etc. You see, Winnie had her comforts but
> she sure did have her hell also.
> Another point you raised was that Winnie´s house was torched and the
> neighbours, mostly women, did nothing to help. There could be a
> multitude of reasons for this. I do not know why. Maybe you can help
> with an answer. Was it because they hated her? If so, why?
> You also wrote:
> > You all seem to have been saying that IT WAS OKEY FOR WINNIE TO
SANCTION
> > THE KILLING OF BLACK PEOPLE EVEN AS SHE WENT ABOUT THE MORE IMPORTANT
> > BUSINESS OF LIBERATING THEM!!!!!!
>
> I don´t know what the rest of the people who sent posts on this thread
> are saying, but I am not saying that Winnie should sanction the killing
> of innocent people whilst liberating them. Are those who were killed
> innocent? What threat did they pose to security of the others in the
> struggle? A 14-year old is as dangerous in this respect as a 90-year
> old. Espionage is a capital offense and can be punishable by death in
> many countries.
> It is important to realise at this point that Winnie has not been
> convicted of killing anybody. There are accusations against her a lot of
> which have been thrown out. The bodyguard who was paraded around the
> world by Emma Nicholson had his evidence stamped as inconsistent. Winnie
> took the stand late this week and refuted all claims against her even
> though some witnesses had punched holes in her alibi. So it is claim and
> counter claim at the moment. Until Winnie is convicted of murder, we
> have to assume her innocence.
> I posted the quotes to remind people of the contibutions Winnie made to
> the struggle. She made some mistakes. That is true. So did everyone else
> from the leaders to the ordinary street people. Afterall, they are all
> human. Whilst everyone is praised for the contributions they made,
> Winnie has been a scapegoat and her contributions have ben negated.
> There are many reasons for this one looking like a conspiracy by the ANC
> hierarchy to tanish her image because of her popularity and the threat
> she poses to them. That is why I thought that it might be a good idea to
> share a few quotes that that would bring her contributions into the
> equation.
>
> Now, let´s get to the important part. You wrote in your follow-up:
> > Bass, in case you do not know.... President Yahya Jammeh once held a
public
> > meeting in Kartong. He told his audience that while he was still a
> > presidential guard, former President Jawara warned him for the youth of
> > Kartong. He said the former president told him that these were very
> > troublesome and radical. That is a reputation your 'alkaliyaa' will
never
> > match. It is regrettable that Buharry and others will have to swallow
this
> > with you.
>
> I have tried very hard to keep out of this topic but now I have to get
> in. First of all, sorry to burst your bubble but where is Kartong? Has
> anyone on the list ever heard of the place?
> Secondly, you Gambians have to realise that Gambia cannot be Gambia
> without Serrekunda. We are the New York of Gambia. You guys had better
> be nice to us. Otherwise I would support Bass if he decides to impose
> visa requirements for you guys and that would be terrible indeed. So, be
> nice and have a good weekend. Thanks.
> Buharry.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Momodou S Sidibeh wrote:
> >
> > Folks....Sisiter Jabou, Bass, Buhari, and others....
> > Just managed to go through so much mail this morning. I simply could
not
> > withstand the urge to answer to this issue even before managing to go
> > through the rest of the mail.
> > Before going any further, I must at once state that I would beg to
DIFFER
> > ALMOST COMPLETELY with the views expressed on Winnie Mandela. The issue
is
> > too important to be uncritically dealt with.
> >
> > While I have no intention to make an analyses of the situation I
should
> > opine that the final phase of the liberation struggle in South Africa -
> > especially from the early 1980s onwards - was fraught with extreme
> > difficulties both for the forces allied to bring down apartheid
together
> > with its capitalist power structures, and those that clamoured for
ending
> > apartheid but reforming the power structures to the extent that they
could
> > be made to respond to the needs of the majority of South Africans.
Even
> > before the Zulu nationalist movement made a serious bid for power
amongst
> > the black population, the ANC and AZAPO had already first cooperated,
and
> > then waged a brutal struggle against one another for supremacy. (This
> > bitter struggle began in fact immediately after the visit to South
Africa
> > by U.S senator Edward Kennedy in (1986?)). The violent nature of this
> > struggle - essentially between disciples of Steve Biko and followers of
> > Nelson Mandela - was a devastating blow to the revolutionary movement
and
> > its supporters and sympathisers. It must be borne in mind however, that
> > this phase of the struggle against apartheid, had for various reasons,
> > received only very scant attention from the international press and
media.
> > The internecine violence became even more complicated with the
emergence
> > of Inkatha; neither was the eqaution simplified by the involvement of
the
> > South African security services in augmenting the violence.
> > IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT THAT, I THINK, ONE MUST CRITICALLY LOOK AT THE
ROLE
> > OF WINNIE MANDELA. Of course she has suffered a lot and went through
> > extreme trials. But so did millions of black South African women!
Winnie,
> > in fact, had it much more comfortable than millions and millions of
others.
> > Many things happened in Winnie Mandela's backyard. Without going into
all
> > that, I should simply invite you to think about this: During the period
of
> > the so-called "black on black" violence Winnie's house in Soweto was
set
> > alight and was completely burnt to ashes. The neighbours, most of them
> > women, just stood by and watched, not offering so much as a cup of
water to
> > douse the flames.
> >
> > The history of the struggle against apartheid is probably the most
> > important piece of human history (for black people, at any rate)
depicting
> > organised struggle against an awesomely powerful and systematically
> > organised RACISM. My opinion is that we need to assess this history
very
> > seriously if we are to ensure the eternal freedom of the race. Here,
> > simplifications, that appeal to sentiments eulogising heroines and
heroes
> > must be rejected. Remembering what we have gone through as a people,
and
> > being aware of the yoke we are carrying today, our search for heoines
is
> > completely understandable. The fact sadly, is simply that Winnie
Mandela
> > has not reached the level of leadership that we should wish her to have
> > eclipsed.
> > You all seem to have been saying that IT WAS OKEY FOR WINNIE TO
SANCTION
> > THE KILLING OF BLACK PEOPLE EVEN AS SHE WENT ABOUT THE MORE IMPORTANT
> > BUSINESS OF LIBERATING THEM!!!!!! That does not make very pleasant
> > reasoning to me. You can choose Winnie Mandela to rule over you in
> > Dippa-Kunda. But for those of us in Kartong, we will forever praise her
for
> > her invaluable contribution, and denounce her for ultimately failing TO
> > LEAD. AFTER ALL, ONE THING LEADERS MUST DO IS TO LEAD.
> >
> > Momodou Sidibeh /Stockholm, Kartong====
> >
> > > Från: Gunjur@aol.com
> > > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > > Ämne: Winnie Madizela Mandela
> > > Datum: den 30 november 1997 16:54
> > >
> > > Brother Bass,you wrote:
> > >
> > > Mr.Jallow,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think I could say it better myself!The Third Force,as Winnie
> > calls
> > >
> > > them,with their racist friends around the world,esp.those of them in
> > >
> > > Britain, want to do everything that could help puncture Winnie's
chances
> > of
> > >
> > > becoming the future president of South Africa.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thabo Nbeki may or may not be the next president of South Africa, but
> > sadly
> > >
> > > for her enemies,the Mother of the Nation would sooner or later become
the
> > >
> > > president of South Africa;and when that happens, she would do exactly
> > what
> > >
> > > the white establishment and its friends are so scared of,namely,the
real
> > >
> > > dismantlement of all the white power structures without which the
real
> > >
> > > enpowerment of Shaka's children would never materialise.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Could the South African diamond giant,De Beers,for instance,ever
imagine
> > the
> > >
> > > day when 80 or 90% of its board members would be black men and
women?!
> > And
> > >
> > > what about the gold industry and the banks and how would most white
> > families
> > >
> > > manage to clean up and feed themselves in a world in which they could
no
> > >
> > > longer afford to pay black nannies and domestic helps to do that for
> > >
> > > them.These are the real stuffs that is scaring them to death,and who
else
> > >
> > > could deliver that last blow to the remnants of apartheid than the
very
> > >
> > > woman who has kept the liberation candle burning for twenty-seven
eternal
> > >
> > > years.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Winnie,we are waiting! Come and rule over us,its your turn now.
> > >
> > > YOU'VE SAID IT ALL!
> > >
> > > Jabou Joh.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Reagrds Basss!
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: pmj@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm>
> > >
> > > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> > >
> > > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > >
> > > Date: Thursday, November 27, 1997 9:13 AM
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> > >
> > > > via Commit
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >Dear Folks,
> > >
> > > >Regarding Mrs Winnie Madikezela-Mandela: On BBC Focus on Africa,
> > 25/11/97;
> > >
> > > >It was reported that "Baroness"Emma Nicholson was taking private
> > >
> > > >prosecution on murder charges against Winnie on behalf of Stompie
??'s
> > >
> > > >mother;
> > >
> > > >now this Emma Nicholson if I recall was a short-lived Minsiter or
junior
> > >
> > > >minister under Margaret Thatcher..the latter and her cabinet was
very
> > >
> > > >famous in affording apartheid much needed breathing space in its
latter
> > >
> > > >years and also holding the ANC and Mandala as communist-terrorists;
> > >
> > > >I think Nicholson should just simply be deported as an undesirable
and
> > >
> > > >unwanted element in Africa..
> > >
> > > >I don't care whether Winnie is guilty or innocent; Emma does not
have a
> > >
> > > >voice or vote in our affairs; it is like having the KKK decide on
black
> > on
> > >
> > > >black crime
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >folks, I have used the utmost restraint in not calling the b*******
the
> > >
> > > >names she deserves in my opinion.
> > >
> > > >pmj
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >----------
> > >
> > > >> From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu>
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
> > > Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu>
> > > Received: from relay32.mail.aol.com (relay32.mail.aol.com
> > [172.31.109.32])
> > > by air09.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:17:40
-0500
> > > Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (lists3.u.washington.edu
> > > [140.142.56.3])
> > > by relay32.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
> > > with ESMTP id XAA03450;
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> > > id UAA26960 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 26 Nov 1997
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> > > -0800
> > > Received: from q-tel.qatar.net by qatar.net.qa
> > > (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:46:26
> > -0300)
> > > id HAA27456; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:46:26 -0300
> > > Message-Id: <01bcfaef$c8c654a0$f92185c2@q-tel.qatar.net>
> > > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:48:07 +0300
> > > Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> > > Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
> > > Precedence: bulk
> > > From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
> > > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> > > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> > > Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
> > > MIME-Version: 1.0
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> > >
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:46:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Nyang Njie <st0021@student-mail.jsu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: How do I retreive old postings
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971207183745.4074A-100000@student-mail.jsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Folks,
I will appreciate it if some one can help me with the
instructions on how to retreive old postings from the list.
Si jama,
Daddy Njie.
*******************************************************************
"I'd love to go out with you, but the last time I went out, I never
came back."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:51:42 PST
From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <19971208005143.13335.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear List manager,
Can you please add Sainabou Jah to the list. << sai-j@-usa.net >>
Your usual co-operation once again is highly appreciated.
Sillah Conateh.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:08:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS (AI INDEX: AFR 27/05 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9712072047.A9908-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'm sure everyone already knows this.......or maybe not. Anyway, just
thought I'ld pass it on. Hope everyone is doing great and I hope to at
contribute a little something after my exams are over!!!!
Ancha.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:28:00 -0500
From: Amnesty International <amnesty@oil.ca>
Reply-To: owner-amnesty-l@host.oil.ca
To: amnesty-l@oil.ca
Subject: THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS (AI INDEX: AFR 27/05
* News Release Issued by the International Secretariat of Amnesty International *
AI INDEX: AFR 27/05/97
THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS
2 DECEMBER 1997
Amnesty International is releasing a new report on Tuesday 2 December 1997
on human rights violations in the Gambia during and after the return to
civilian rule.
The report, The Gambia: Democratic reforms without human rights (AFR
27/05/97) details how despite significant political changes and the release
of numerous long-term prisoners of conscience, human rights continue to be
violated with impunity.
In the recent months, dozens of members and supporters of legal
opposition parties have been persecuted by the authorities for their
political activities. Several of them have been detained and some have been
tortured.
The first death sentences since the death penalty was reintroduced in
1995 were handed down in 1997 although no judicial executions have taken
place. There has been no progress in any investigations into past human
rights violations.
The return to civilian rule and the introduction of a new Constitution
has improved the Gambia's international reputation and as a result
international donors have resumed assistance. Amnesty International
believes that this international cooperation should be directed to improve
respect for fundamental human rights.
This new report also recommends steps to be taken by the Government of
Gambia to improve respect for human rights.
****************************************************************
You may repost this message onto other sources provided the main
text is not altered in any way and both the header crediting
Amnesty International and this footer remain intact. Only the
list subscription message may be removed.
****************************************************************
To subscribe to amnesty-L, send a message to <majordomo@oil.ca> with
"subscribe amnesty-L" in the message body. To unsubscribe, send a
message to <majordomo@oil.ca> with "unsubscribe amnesty-L" in the message
body. If you have problem signing off, contact <owner-amnesty-L@oil.ca>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 14:58:34 +1200
From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: The EL NINO and Africa
Message-ID: <4856E5379D6@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
As an initial contribution to the Bantaba, I would like us to give
attention to the El nino weather phenomenon which is presently
threatening the world and Africa in particular. According to
scientist, the phenomenon is known to cause two weather exteremes of
flooding or drought. Most of the African continent including our sub
region gets the drought end of the extreme when the EL NINO strikes.
The UN Department of Humanitarian Affairs has already set a task
force to collaborate with countries in the prevention and mitigation
of, and preparedness for, the natural disasters related to the El
NINO.
What will be the impact of such a major global weather change on the
Gambia? Should starting thinking now or wait till the worst happens?
What can we do alleviate the sufering of our brothers and sister?
These questions are worth thinking about, since agriculture remains
the main economic activity of the Gambia.
Each of us can make a difference.
Saikou BM Njai
Saikou B M Njai
Postgraduate Student Room E311
Department of Civil Engineering
University of Canterbury
P M B 4800
Christchurch,N Z
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:33:30 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
Message-ID: <9712080733.AA27326@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tamsir, you wrote:
> Guys,
> I think it is very premature to suggest a reorganization of the
> management and the coaching staff.
How do you mean? A reorganization is the first step that any team would
take after an unexplanable defeat like this. In many countries (including
here in the good old USA) that value sports as a national endowment,
coaches and managers will get 'fired' after a humilaiatory defeat like
this one. It's not that the coaches themselves are incompetent. Rather
they are seen as unmotivated. Why do you think players get paid millions
of dollars? Michael Jordan will earn $73 million dollars this year
(including endoresments) Why? Because they think he has what it takes to
win another title. The management would rather get rid of the coach than
let Jordan go. He makes the calls and his coach kisses his ass. You see
the same thing in big European leagues. Ronaldo, Batistuta, Romario,
Zidane (all of whom play in Europe) are all good players but without good
coaching they can't win anything. By setting financial strains aside, one
could say that the Gambian players are very sophisticated players too, but
without the proper coaching they might as well be inexperienced to compete
internationally.
> Just a few days ago, these coaches were
> doing such a wonderful job according to postings on this list.
Exactly! These posting were biased to the extent of exaggeration.
Remember, these were personal and emotional thoughts of how the posters
see the Gambian squad. They (and you yourself) would have done the same
even if the Scorpions were the lowest on the ladder.
> Why then
> should we suggest a dismantling of the organization's hierarchy when we do
> not even know what went wrong.
Of course we know what went wrong. Who do you think are better judges than
the onlookers? The Organisation was disorganized to begin with. How could
one invest so much money into the hosting of such an event without getting
his players ready ahead of time. I hear that the team was assembled two
months prior to the games. I say that was not enough...but no cause for
excuse either! If there is anyone to blame, then who would it be? The
coaches, the players,or the sports authority? Surely, someone will have to
go down for this, don't you agree?
> Maybe Mali just had a better team. If i
> remember very well, Archibald, who is based in The Gambia, was very
> impressed with Mali from the get-go.
That is no excuse! The Scorpions are just as good as Mail. Furthermore, it
is my understanding that this was Gambia's first defeat by Mali in their
seven encounters since 1972. Therefore, to be sympathetic is bound to
induce the same mistake again. I say let's get rid of the fear so as to
compete fairly but aggressively next time.
> I am making these statements because
> having played for and with Alhagie Sillah, i know him to be one of the most
> competent coaches in The Gambia. Let's give the brother a chance. Our team
> wasn't assembled until a couple of months ago.
Once again, this is a personal and emotional opinion and support from you.
Mr. Sillah maybe 'one of the most competent coaches' but he didn't prove
it, did he? The only chance he should get, IMO, is to watch the reruns of
the players' performance and judge for himself what he thinks best. Using
"Our team wasn't assembled until a couple of weeks ago" as an excuse just
won't cut it. But as they say, he who falls will always find something to
blame it on.
Despite all this, I would still like to wish the Scorpions, eventhough I
would prefer a better name, better luck next time. It must feel very
painful to invest so much money and national pride in the hosting of this
tournament, only to watch the parade go by. What better place to win a
trophy than at home?
Just an personal opinion.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:38:33 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: greetings
Message-ID: <9712080738.AA28196@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Latjor, you wrote:
> Greetings folks:
>
> Glad to be back on the bantaba.
>
Greetings Latjor,
Welcome back!
>From your message, it seems like you have a 'hotmail' address. Kindly send
me your knew address via private mail.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:49:40 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: How do I retreive old postings
Message-ID: <9712080749.AA23356@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Nyang Njie, you wrote:
> Hi Folks,
> I will appreciate it if some one can help me with the
> instructions on how to retreive old postings from the list.
>
It is tedious....it is tedious! But if you have time, here it is:
------------------- sent by Abdou Touray -----------------------------
Hi folks,
I have received various requests from list members on accessing
gambia-l archives. Our archive covers from January 31st, 1996 to
October 19th, 1997. The discussions are divided into 90 parts.
Getting any piece of correspondence involves two steps:
(i) Send a command on line by itself to listproc@u.washington.edu to
retrieve a list of the files. The command is: index gambia-l -all
In return you will get output that looks like:
gambia-l.log9601e (1 part, 3956 bytes) -- We did it !
gambia-l.log9602a (1 part, 60055 bytes) -- Re: We did it !
gambia-l.log9602b (1 part, 7037 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 1
gambia-l.log9710c (1 part, 183620 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 89
gambia-l.log9710d (1 part, 299771 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 90
These files are in chronological order; gambia-l.log9710d contains the
latest discussions in October of 1997.
(ii)Send a command on a line by itself to retrieve the file of
discussions that you want. The command is: get gambia-l FILENAME where
FILENAME is the name of the file such as gambia-l.log9710c.
Retrieving a file will take a long time as the archives are stored
on tape drives. Additionally be careful that you do do not swamp your
own mailbox as these files are very huge. For example, we have
generated close to 30 Megabytes of discussions which is about 40, 000
pages of hard copy [Disclaimer: these are all rough estimates] !
Among gems in the archive are snippets of the electronic version of
The Gambian Constitution. Happy hunting !
-Abdou.
------------------------ end message -------------------------------------
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
=======================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 02:19:09 PST
From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Delist Member
Message-ID: <19971208101909.21862.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear List manager,
Please delist Kendaka Gaye << kendakaj@hotmail.com >> until further
notice.
I appreciate your usual co-operation.
Sillah Conateh.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:51:09 +0200 (SAST)
From: "Fanneh" <fannehm@eng.und.ac.za>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <E9E3BA334D@eng.und.ac.za>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi,
>From your introduction, I think you must be Kawsu Badjie's
brother and the twin brother of Alasana Demba who was residing in
Banjul (Perseverance Street) while studying at the Gambia High
School. Anyway, I wish you success in your studies and hope you
will enjoy the discussions.
Cheers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:18:56 -0000
From: "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Zone II - Trophy bound for Bamako - The end of the Road
Message-ID: <B0000022088@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Archibald H. R. Graham" <archibald.graham@commit.gm>
via Commit
Pa Mambuna, your recent prediction on the list that Mali would finally
emerge as
winners of the trophy has been fulfilled.
Mali knocked out the Lions by 2 goals to nil in the final of the tourney.
It
was to be the best of the matches after Mali registered a beautiful goal
about
the first 10 mins or so of the 1st half, What would you expect after that?
Attacks and counter attacks as The Lions tried to and made several attempts
to equalize by penetrating the Malian team's defense but to no avail. The
1-0 lead was not a comfortable lead for
the Malian team, but they successfully maintained that position till about
the last 5 minutes or so of the tournament when they final made the last
goal of
the tourney just to finally emerge as the rightful winners of the trophy.
They maintained their quality of play all through the tourney as they
remained undefeated all the way. That I understand made them a twice winner
of the trophy leaving The Lions of Senegal as a 7 times winner of it so
far.
But then, what else would you have expected from the Malian Team after
being
promised $10,000 each and also a car each by the Malian Tycoon Babanding
currently in the Gambia also. Yes, TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS AND A CAR EACH
MEMBER OF THE TEAM if they emerge as winners of the trophy. What would you
have
done if you were a member of that team with that much of a promise awaiting
you by the end of day only if the team wins? For my part, I know I would
have "N'Dewo" (struggle) for it all the way. And that is what they happened
to have done without playing it dirty as they maintained their
sportsmanship and technical ability throughout the trophy. Their matches
were a delight to be watched, and personally I think they deserve to lift
the Trophy with due regards.
The Lions of Senegal almost made things a bit off-hand as they attempted to
attack the referee, Malick Sillah (if I get the name right), as the
final whistle was blown but thanks to the intervention force things were
normalized and under control.
You might as well want to know of the Scorpions performance in the runners
up match earlier in the day. Well sad to say once again they lost the third
place in the post match penalties shot outs after playing a wonderful
equalizer only in the 2nd half. The Guinean team had a upper hand over the
Scorpions during the 1st half as they successfully scored their first goal
within the 1st 5 minutes of play. The 2nd goal by the Guinean team was a
masterpiece one-man show. This player drove in the ball from no where
within the Scorpions danger zone all the way beating about 3 or 4 of the
Scorpions single-handedly from his right wing almost heading for the touch
line just nearby by the Scorpions' post and as he faked a pass deceiving
the last but one man changing foot play he made it a 2nd for the Guinean
team. I would have nominated that to be the best goal of the tourney if
given the chance. But then came the 2nd half of the match starting with a
2-0 defeat for the Scorpions. Substitutions were made one of which brought
in no other than Ebou Sillah. During this 2nd half 2 solid goals were
hammered into the Guinean net. The 2nd came in bearly about 10 or so
minutes to end of play. The 2-2 draw lasted till the end of the match and
the referee opted for a 5-5 post match penalty kicks. The Scorpions lost
one of their penalties shot-out whilst all the Guinean team's ended up well
into the net as such the match ended in a 7-6 defeat for the Scorpions.
Unfortunately for the Scorpions it was their Captain was the one who lost
his penalty kick, but definitely it was an unintentional one.
The best player of the tournament award was duly obtained by the Scorpions'
Ebou Sillah. For a certainty he deserved it. He has a special sportsmanship
about him that could turn his team mates discouragement into life. In fact
from personal observation, it appears that Jatto Ceesay plays better when
he teams up with Ebou Sillah in the field. Very active and agile I think he
merits that award. The team of fair play award ended up with the Guinean
team, and for sure they deserved it after falling short of a finalist. In
fact the best score of the tournament award was to one of the Guinean team
player registering 5 goals by the end of the tournament. The bronze
medallists and the silver medallists turned out to be the Guinean team and
the Senegalese team respectively whilst the Milian team lifts the trophy at
the end of the day.
I am quite sure Air Dabia is about set to take off with the Milian team up
to Bamako as the trophy heads with them for that land. Thanks to the Milian
team for their wonderful football display here in the Gambia and thanks to
their patron's promise which undoubtedly inspired them to end up being the
champions of this tournament to be repeated in another edition in two years
time in Cape Verde.
For now I have got to get going. I have got a long day ahead of me after
the Scorpions (No fault of theirs) failed to make a public holiday for us
here. Till I get back, have a nice day.
My regards to all,
Archi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:47:52 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela - Part 2.
Message-ID: <199712081351.OAA02754@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Buharry, this is the follow up, but first an obvious correction: In the
first paragr. of part 1, I wrote: "...But we must also recognise that she,
like most people in the leadership, ought to have remained ..." .This
should have read "But we must also recognise that she, like most people in
the leadership HAD DONE, ought to have remained ....firm and resolute".
5: Yes, you are right. WM has not been convicted of murder and so we must
assume her innocence until proven guilty. But she has been found guilty of
kidnapping and was sentenced to six years in 1991? For the purposes of
writing our own history and believing that what goes in or out of a court
of law is not necessarily a reflection of the truth, I think it is
important that we assume legal verdicts as potential aids in the search for
justice for our conscience. The promotion of an arch conservative like Emma
Nicholson as a moral crusader for victims of WM's actions we can dismiss as
farcical. As far as I am concerned, she is of no consequence whatsoever, to
the history of South Africa.
6. Yes, everyone makes mistakes. WM, however, is not just anyone; and we
should weigh the gravity of her mistakes against what would be permissible
for a leader of her standing to commit. I cannot come up with any credible
reason for dismissing Jerry Richardson's testimony against WM.
These seem to me to be the main points you raised, except for the question
of conspiracy by the ANC to tarnish her image. I will say what I would on
that in my conclusion.
CONCLUSION:
Discussing WM per se is difficult because I find it almost impossible to
extricate her activities from the larger realities of the South African
condition during the 1980s. But dealing with that condition here is out of
the question. Not just because I am grossly unqualified to do that but also
because we might just get loss and warped up in our own attempt at it. So
these humble views are neither sufficient nor conclusive:
1. WM's place in the ANC is important. In ideological terms the ANC seems
to me to be a social democratic party now. I tend to believe that they are
making too many compromises with the interests of capital to the extent
that the ordinary people feel left out. For their sake and for the sake of
long term stability I think a left-wing faction is necessary in the party.
The interests of the marginalised must be sufficiently articulated to
ensure that the ANC does not go too far in its rightist moves. And there is
no one (as far as I know) better qualified than WM to do that. On the other
hand her socialist populism may be more damaging to the economy should she
implement her ideas if she becomes overall boss. I sincerely believe that
this is the reason why the ANC leadership seems to be bent on isolating
her. I do not know if there is a conspiracy to tarnish her image for any
other reason.
2. Any crime, or crimes really or allegedly committed by WM must be seen in
the context of the brutality of the apartheid regime. An illustration:
Simon Mpungose (mm-pun-go-say), commonly known as Simon the Hammerman had
a wicked childhood and lacked everything from food to school books. He was
a Zulu and the circumstances of his birth made him believe he was of no
human value whatsoever. He lacked a future, until he was locked up at
Barberton Prison for petty theft. There he witnessed the most appaling
atrocities committed on black prisoners. Then his life changed and he
discovered his mission. When he was released, he got himself a
sledgehammer, and visited the white suburbs at night. He would creep like
the rustling wind in their homes, unlatch their windows silently and tiptoe
into their bedrooms. The Hammerman would beat the heads of white men and
their wives into a messy pulp, spare their children and disappear into the
darkness. Terror spread amongst the whites. They no longer slept with their
guns alone. They had helmets strapped to their heads as well. When he was
finally caught and he told his story in court he concluded his mission was
complete and that he only wanted to die. His lawyers, astounded in
disbelief, hired Bruce Gillmer, a sort of psychiatrist, in the hope that he
would declare Simon insane and consequently save him from the rope. But
Bruce Gilmer did not. In spite of his anti-apartheid sentiments he could
not, for his professional integrity,declare Simon mad. He said that Simon
was a genius; that he had the power of a great novelist who "drew whites
into his black nightmare to take them into punishment cells awash with
blood, to show them the broken corpse on which the warders were erasing
whip welts with hot irons. When Simon described his days in
Barbeton....your own eyes saw rocks transformed into the heads of white
oppressors and explode under the blows of a sledgehammer". Simon's work at
Barbeton was the endless and tedious job of breaking grey stones into
powder. Bruce Gillmer was a 'political forensic psychologist', a
left-leaning discipline whose adherents believe that APARTHEID HAS
BRUTALIZED THE PSYCHES OF BLACK PEOPLE TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT APARTHEID
ITSELF IS A MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCE FOR ANY CRIMES THEY MIGHT COMMIT. Simon
was hanged on November 20, 1985.
So Buharry, I think that the ultimate responsibility for whatever WM
committed must be placed squarly on the shoulders of the rockspiders and
crunchies and Broederbonders even as she failed in her capacity as leader.
We should not lose sight of this fact never mind what CNN says about her.
Have a really good day.
Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
>> >
> > >> >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:29:09 -0500
From: habib <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: greetings
Message-ID: <348C2E65.1EB9@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
latjor ndow wrote:
>
> Greetings folks:
>
> Glad to be back on the bantaba.
>
> Could the managers please add Omar Jobe to the list. His address is:
> oijobe@aol.com
>
> Regards,
>
> LatJor
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Welcome back Latjor
Habib
--
MZ
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:16:31 +0300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!!
Message-ID: <01BD041E.BFEAAD80@ddgz.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have got a long day ahead of me after
the Scorpions (No fault of theirs) failed to make a public holiday for =
us
here. Till I get back, have a nice day.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Archi,
The only people I have praise for now are you and PmJ (our ArmChair =
commentators) and those tens of thousands of Gambians who have been =
tirelessly flocking to the stadium to stand by and show support for the =
Scorpions.As for our Scorpions,now that they have blown the second =
chance that Mr.Nbai insists we should give them(we are not even third =
anymore),maybe our traditional Gambian niceness should give way to a =
much more rational and unsentimental appraisal.The brutal fact remains =
that,based on results,this has been one of the worst performances of the =
Gambian National team,the nationalistic hoopla notwithstanding! That is =
why not only a revamp is in order,but even a change of name,as Moe =
Jallow has suggested,should be given some thought. Because the last time =
I checked,REAL Scorpions get very ferocious and poisonous when defending =
their home territories from strangers.That evidently has not been the =
case here,has it?!
So,Archi,sorry about not having a well-deserved public holiday after you =
and PmJ have done such a great job! But maybe you should try to blame =
someone for it; and if i were you,I would choose either the coach or the =
Scorpions.But in the meantime ,keep up the good work down there!!!
Regards Bassss!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:11:17 +0330
From: "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <19971208205205.AAA24753@kansala.avana.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Hello everyone,
My name is Malang Maane. I graduated from Gambia High School in 1993 (6th
form science). I then went on to Canada where I got a diloma in engineering
and did an extra year for a degree towards Mech eng. I worked for GPTC from
05/96 to 08/96 as a coop program. I am now in Atlanta and I work for
AT&T...I hope to enroll soon in school to continue my degree.
Thank you all for your time.
Mr Malang Maane
1870 Myrtle Drive F7
Atlanta Ga 30311
(404)753 0989
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:04:50 EST
From: TOURAY 1 <TOURAY1@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
Message-ID: <31c15006.348ca050@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Mr Moe,
Kool down a little bit; Atleast Senegal didn't
beat the hell out of us this time.(joke)
Lams
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:11:49 -0500
From: Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Seeking Hotel Info
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971209021149.21cf19a4@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
I often get email from people who visit my web page, asking about places to
stay in Gambia. I think it would be useful to have online a list of hotels
with a short description of each (i.e., number of rooms, facilities, cost,
contact info, etc.) If there is anyone on this list who is in the tourism
industry or elsewhere, has access to such information, and would be willing
to email it to me, I'd be grateful. Although I'm not interested in posting
full-scale advertisements for the hotels (who I believe have the resources
to do so on their own if they'd like), a short list of hotels, safari
companies, etc. and their services would be useful to many. Judging by the
usage stats and message boards, the largest audience of visitors to The
Gambia Resource Page seem to be past and future tourists.
Abarka, Andy
===============================================================
Andy Lyons The Gambia Resource Page
alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu http://grove.ufl.edu/~alyons
===============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:46:20 EST
From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New members
Message-ID: <5bc3393a.348cdb31@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
THANKS FOR HAVING ON BOARD GUYS. IT'S A GREAT PLEASURE TO JOIN SUCH A TEAM.
JUST A BRIEF INTRODUCTION. MY NAME IS OMAR JOBE AKA MAO JOBE. I RESIDE IN
ALEXANDRIA, VA. U.S.A. I HAVE BEEN IN THE AREA FOR OVER TWELVE YEARS. MOST OF
THE MEMBERS ARE VERY CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDS AND IT'S GREAT TO BE ON LINE WITH
THEM.
ONCE AGAIN, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON BOARD.
HEY PA JENG, THANKS FOR THE WARM WELCOME TO THE INFO SUPER HIGHWAY. I WILL SEE
YOU LATER. THANKS OMAR JOBE (MAO)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:56:20 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Zone II commentary from the arm chair: Semis and Finals and Signing Off
Message-ID: <B0000022484@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Hi Folks,
Okay..very unsporty..but The Gambia lost 2-1 to Mali and ended my
commenting career; I frankly was not in the mood to discuss it..but on the
whole..our boys played..and cried on the pitch..
what happened?
for some reason, our goaler..George Lobba had knee injury..both knees but
Coach Sillah kept him there even after he collapsed and could not even kick
the ball..the Malians realized this and kept taking shots at the goal..and
scored two goals in the first half, in the second half, changes were made
and the Gambians kept attacking and scored one goal but time ran out..in
the second half, it was show time and all Gambian, but the changes were too
late and out went the scorpions;
Senegal vs Guinea Conakry 2:1
It was obvious that Guinea was the strongest team in the zonals but the
Senegal lions..underdogs outplayed and outran the guineans and won an upset
victory..
Finals:
For 3rd and 4th place..Guinea lead 2-1 before the Gambia finally equalised
Penalties were lost 4-5 but for drawing the strong Guinea team, the
Gambians redeemed themselves and I AM PROUD OF THE SCORPIONS
Senegal lost by a lone goal to MALI; they could not find the magic that
defeated a stronger GUINEA which drew with MALI..so MALI emerges as the
ZONE II CHAMPIONS FOR 1997
The Match was attended by Bissau President Nino Viera and Jammeh; thus
concluded the best organised Zone II so far
--from the arm chair in banjul --------a no longer depressed scorpion
pmj
Best Player: Ebou Sillah of The Gambia*******
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:17:37 EST
From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
Message-ID: <206a7845.348ce283@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 97-12-07 19:53:48 EST, you write:
<< stockholm >>
MY BROTHER, WHAT'S HAPPENING? I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT WENT ON DURING THE
TURNAMENT AND WHY WE LOST TO THE MALIANS. I THINK IT'S TOO EARLY TO MAKE ANY
SUGGESTIONS ON MANAGEMENT AND COACHING RESUFFLING. I PLAYED FOR ROOTS FOOTBALL
CLUB IN THE EARLY 80'S WITH ALHAGIE SILLAH BEING THE COACH. HE IS AN EXCELLENT
COACH AND LEADER. MAY BE THE MALIANS HAD A BETTER SIDE THAN ALL OTHER TEAMS IN
THE TURNAMENT. WE SHOULD COMMENT THEM FOR THEIR OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE DURING
THE ENTIRE TURNAMENT AND WAIT FOR COACHES EXPLANATION. GOOD NIGHT FROM MAO
JOBE.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:45:02 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!!
Message-ID: <9712091445.AA31516@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Lams, you wrote:
> Mr Moe,
> Kool down a little bit; Atleast Senegal didn't
> beat the hell out of us this time.(joke)
Hey Lams,
Warning heeded ...
Senegal didn't beat us by way of goals but they defeated us both
emotionally and psychologically. Emotionally, because they came to our
turf and held us to a draw despite our cheering crowd. Psychologically,
because they have won the cup 7 times and did manage to make it to finals
again (they always have someting to boast about). Now, take a look at our
position below despite being the host nation.
1. Mali (Trophy)
2. Senegal (Silver)
3. Guinea (Bronze)
4. Gambia
I have cooled off now (after insult was added to injury by Guinea's
victory for third place) but I will feel much better when the entire
organisation is overhauled, including a change of name and national
colours for the SCORPIONS. After all, this is a new Gambia and we should
deserve better.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
PS
Lams, I'm still waiting for your reply to the last message I sent you.
==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:10:07 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: ECOWAS web site
Message-ID: <9712091510.AA27848@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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FYI, ECOWA'S web site, www.ecowas.com, is currently under construction.
They are still gathering information on member countries. It's coming and
will be breath taking with lots and lots of information. It will be the
best source of information on West Africa.
stay tuned.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
======================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:44:30 -0800
From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Human Rights Violations
Message-ID: <348D9F9E.437BDB62@cse.bridgeport.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hello list members,
Recently I have seen at least a couple of postings from Amnesty
claiming the violations of human rights in the Gambia. I feel that this
is a very important issue that we should discuss. The last time I heard,
Gambia was a democratic country. How can it be if human rights are being
violated and citizens are even scared to express their opinions without
being tortured or threatened? Do I sense the attitude "Since they are
not my relatives, I do not care." Remember what goes around comes
around. It might not be your relatives or friends today but it might be
tomorrow. Gambia is our nation, if we do not build it, nobody will do it
for us. If we do not stop this "Nonsense," trust me nobody will. I
propose that we do something about it before it gets out of hand. Does
anyone out there agree with me? Please comment and/or give suggestions.
---------
Anna Secka
secka@cse.bridgeport.edu
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
-- Salvor
Hardin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:32:14 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: World Bank's Summer Employment Program
Message-ID: <9712091732.AA26736@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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FYI,
The Summer Employment Program (SEP) has re-opened (as of
December 1) for its 1998 season.
For your convenience, a web site providing information on
Employment Opportunities in the Bank is located at:
www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/employ.htm
Information regarding the SEP, as well as a link to an
automated application form to the Program, is included at that
site. CVs may also be mailed to:
The World Bank
Summer Employment Program
1818 H Street
ROOM S5-073
Washington, DC 20433
and must be postmarked no later than January 30, 1998.
The Bank pays a monthly salary to all Summer Assistants and,
where applicable, provides an allowance towards travel
expenses. Summer Assistants are responsible for their own
living accommodations. The Bank does not offer unpaid or
volunteer positions at any time. All summer positions are
located in Washington, DC, and are a minimum of four weeks in
duration. Assignments can begin as early as May and usually end
by September 30th.
Further queries regarding the SEP may be addressed to
Sprogram@worldbank.org
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:05:17 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Human Rights Violations
Message-ID: <9712091805.AA51776@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Anna Secka wrote:
> Hello list members,
> Recently I have seen at least a couple of postings from Amnesty
> claiming the violations of human rights in the Gambia. I feel that this
> is a very important issue that we should discuss. The last time I heard,
> Gambia was a democratic country. How can it be if human rights are being
> violated and citizens are even scared to express their opinions without
> being tortured or threatened? Do I sense the attitude "Since they are
> not my relatives, I do not care." Remember what goes around comes
> around. It might not be your relatives or friends today but it might be
> tomorrow. Gambia is our nation, if we do not build it, nobody will do it
> for us. If we do not stop this "Nonsense," trust me nobody will. I
> propose that we do something about it before it gets out of hand. Does
> anyone out there agree with me? Please comment and/or give suggestions.
Well said, sister. I am glad you brought up this topic again. I think it
was Ancha who posted an article about this a couple of days ago. Like you
said, the feeling is that we seem to ignore the fact that there is still
human rights violations in our own back yard. I do believe that the
majority of those who know what is going on are our brothers and sisters
back home. They are also the ones who can ultimately bring to the open all
the mistreatments and harsh violations of individual rights as mentioned
in human rights articles. Considering the fact that they are indeed in the
midst of all the 'problems' and could be subjected to persecution, it will
become increasing difficult for them to discuss such issues openly for
fear of reprisal by the government. I am sure we have members who could
feel us in about what is being said in these reports but for the sake of
their own lives and the lives of their loved ones, they seek not no to
comment. To this cause, we cannot and should not condemn them for being
intimidated. Instead what we need to do is find ways to make the
government aware that we do know, according to some reports, that there
are a considerable human rights violations that need addressing as soon as
possible. I am tempted to think that there are certain groups in the US
and/or other parts of the world that have openly and publicly demostrated
at Gambian embassies to show their indifference to such violations. If
this is so then the members of those groups might want to fill us in with
what actually is happening and what the outcomes, if any, of these
demonstrations have yielded. All the same, I agree that we need to pay
closer attention to our beloved country and find ways to correct the
wrongs before it gets out of hand. And even if we cannot correct them,
atleast we will have tried.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Your brother,
Moe S. Jallow
==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:30:34 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!!
Message-ID: <9712091830.AA31076@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Bass, you wrote:
>
> Archi,
> The only people I have praise for now are you and PmJ (our ArmChair =
> commentators) and those tens of thousands of Gambians who have been =
> tirelessly flocking to the stadium to stand by and show support for the =
> Scorpions.
Right on, Bass! Let me also take this opportunity to thank the
commentators, Archi and Pa Musa, for a job well done. Despite the
SCORPION'S (Gambia's) loss, your efforts are still very much appreciated.
Thank you.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:52:58 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <9712091852.AA33482@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry, you wrote:
> Hi!
> I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most
> disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to
> outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and
> representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in
> G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for Wollofs
> and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based on
> tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us prospers.
> Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of
> helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up businesses.
> Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting, "taysantays"
> etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can
> improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we ....
> Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be
> disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost?
> Buharry.
Tom, you have spoken again! I am still trying to catch up with my e-mail
but will repond to this privately (if the issue is a dead horse on
Gambia-L). It's nothing but the truth, and we definitely need to grow up.
And I will only add, "growing old is mandatory, but growing up is
optional".
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:28:57 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The EL NINO and Africa
Message-ID: <9712091928.AA36788@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mr. Njai, you wrote:
> As an initial contribution to the Bantaba, I would like us to give
> attention to the El nino weather phenomenon which is presently
> threatening the world and Africa in particular.
Welcome to the list and thank you for the information on EL NINO.
I would like to add that for those who wish to learn more about EL NINO,
you can go to the following URL:
http://www.ecodec.org/12a/glan12a.htm
You will find some very insightful information there.
Thank you.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:42:09 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela
Message-ID: <9712091942.AA53766@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Those with opinions on the Winnie-gate trials can forward those
opinions to the leadership of the African National Congress. The ANC
website on the world-wide web is: http://www.anc.org.za
Selected email addresses are as follows:
General Address ........................ anchq@anc.org.za
President Mandella's Office .............. president@anc.org.za
Deputy President Mbeki's Office ..........tmbeki@anc.org.za
Truth Commission ....................... truthecom@anc.org.za
If any one has Winnie Mandela's address, please add to this list.
Thanks.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:58:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New members
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971209115659.20113F-100000@saul9.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Housainou Taal and Ebrima Bah have been added to the list. We welcome them
and are looking forward to their introductions and contributions.
Thanks
Tony Loum
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:13:36 +0100
From: Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <348DA670.C39@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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hello Mao,
Wellcom to the Gambia-L
This is Marie Gillen.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:17:31 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Hi
Message-ID: <9712092017.AA37142@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>
> hello Mao,
> Wellcom to the Gambia-L
> This is Marie Gillen.
>
Hi Marie,
Are you related to Muhammed and Aja Gillen, former students of Gambia High
School?
Please, respond privately at the following address : mjallow@sct.edu
Thanks.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:47:54 +0100
From: Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Hi
Message-ID: <348DAE7A.3522@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Hello Moe,
Yes i am related to gillen
and yes it is my Father"s
Brother who died last week.
thanks
marie.G
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:51:12 PST
From: "ebrima drameh" <njogou@hotmail.com>
To: GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <19971209205112.18489.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
HELLO LIST MANAGERS,
KINDLY SUBSCRIBE MR GABRIEL D. MENDY TO THE LIST.
HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS GMENDY@HOTMAIL.COM.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 22:30:21 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <348E36FD.3274@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
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Hi Ousman!
First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and
questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be
attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative. So when you
sent a reply a few hours later, I had to restrain myself from explaining
the reason there and then. I understand that many on this list only have
e-mail access at work or school and I sent the post on Friday evening. I
decided to wait until Monday/Tuesday when everyone would have had the
chance to read the first post.
You wrote:
> When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I =
> think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very =
> good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong =
> but what's up with these sweeping statements?
I did not carry out any scientific investigation into Gambian
behaviour. I agree with you that such elements can be found in any
society. However, in my attempt to get members=B4 attention, framing the
statements in a general manner would not have done. Asking how we as
humans can do such things is not specific enough. I also understand and
know that these elements are a minority of Gambian society. I am not an
intelligent fella but I sometimes try to fool myself into believing
that I have a little bit of common sense and common sense dictates that
all blanket statements are false. You see, I could not have literally
meant all Gambians because if I did, my statement would have fallen even
before being sent out because I am a Gambian and I would never dream of
doing some of the issues raised.
Concerning tribal affiliation, I agree that tribes are a reality of our
society which precede the country known as Gambia. I also agree that
there is nothing wrong with enjoying one=B4s tribal heritage because it i=
s
Gambia=B4s diversity that makes the country exciting and this diversity
can be advatageous. However, the reality of the given examples go beyond
simple tribal identification. They have become divisive factors. I can
remember that the Mandinkas used to have their celebrations in Marietta
whilst the Wollofs used to have theirs around the Campbellton Road area.
I can also remember what was being said and in what tone. The situation
in G=F6teborg is as bad or even worse. There is rivalry among Gambians
based on tribal lines. This is when tribalism can become dangerous. We
are not living in "time immemorial". We are living in the 1990s and the
reality is that Gambia is a country made up of many tribes. If we allow
tribalism to become divisive, the implications would be too terrible to
even contemplate. Examples abound around Africa.
I also believe in the ultimate unification of the African continent.
However, if the few hundreds of us living in one city cannot come
together as Gambians, then the dream of African unity is but an
illusion. For African unity to be meaningful and everlasting,
unification has to start from within the countries of the African
continent. Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren=B4t there
Africans on the other side? I talked about Gambian unity because
Gambia-l is a Gambian forum and is as good a place to discuss Gambian
issues as any.
To the issues I raised in the original post. Even though it is wrong to
generalise and say that all Gambians abroad are hopeless when it comes
to organising themselves, I have to say that I have been unlucky enough
to live only in cities where the organisations or those who are to be
organised have left much to desire. In Atlanta, it was at one point the
"kotos"/boys rivalry that plagued us and threatened any meaningful
attempt to better our condition. In Stockholm, the same issue has
plagued the organisation for a long time. The younger Gambians criticise
every move the older members who have always volunteered their time to
run the organisation make. Yet when it comes to election of officials,
those who consistently criticise the way things are run refuse to take
any responsibility. The same is said for some older Gambians also.
Meetings are held for hours without a single issue being resolved. Many
a time the meetings end in insults and sometimes physical fights. This
has led to an organisation in tatters despite the fact that the
organisation is not in the least poor. This has also led to an
organisation which has the potential to accomplish much but which is
neutralised by its own negativity. All who zealously start to contribute
get fed up in a short period of time. That is why Gambians are one of
the least organised groups that I know in Stockholm. Gambians are one of
the first African groups to migrate to Sweden yet we have not
accomplished much and cannot do much for our own. The Eritreans who
started migrating a few years ago have concrete projects both here and
back home through their organisation. One of the projects the Ugandans
have is that they contribute money to take a deceased home and make a
collection to give to his/her family back home. There are more examples.
What do the Gambians have? Even setting up a memorial fund for the late
Amadou Jallow, one of the founders of the organisation, to help students
back home was plagued with so much negativity and bickering that nothing
has come out of it. Whenever there is talk of taking some of the
organisation=B4s money and investing in something worthwhile, many a
person stands up to come up with a reason not to yet no one objects when
the money is to be used to finance parties etc.
Another result of our disunity is that we blow away chances both for
ourselves and our country. Over a year ago here in Stockholm, a Gambian
who had contacts with Huddinge Hospital learnt that they were to change
some of their equipment and beds. He negotiated with them and they
promised to donate the things to RVH in Banjul as long as he could take
care of the shipment. He contacted the Gambian organisation and a
meeting was called to discuss the issue. After explaining the situation,
the floor was open. One of the members said that he would nominate
someone else to accompany the things to Gambia because the person who
came up with the idea only wanted to go to Gambia for holidays. This
being the case, he should buy his own airticket and not expect the
organisation to sponsor his holidays. This led to so much arguing,
insults and literally to a physical fight. The meeting ended in chaos
and that was the last thing about the equipment. I think the equipment
ended up in one of the Baltic states. We all lost. Gambia lost.
Another issue I raised dealt with reporting people to the immigration
authorities because they overstay their visas. This is a real problem
not only in Stockholm but even in England. Some people are notorious for
that in London and people warn newcomers about them. They tell them not
to tell those people how long they have been in the country. In
Manchester a few months ago, some Gambians and a Senegalese were
reported and the police went to their workplace, caught and deported
them. Here in Sweden, just before visa requirements were instituted for
Gambians, there was a massive operation and many Gambians were deported.
Gambians were reporting each other like hell. Some were saying that the
authorities were paying informants between 2 and 3, 000 Swedish Kronor
for every person reported. It was really hot for those without visas for
hardly a week went by without someone being deported. The reporting is
still going on because just a short while ago, a person was reported and
the police were supplied with that person=B4s photograph and they waited
for that person to arrive at the gate because they had information that
that person was on the way home. How can we be so ?
The other issue dealt with the fact that it is difficult for many a
Gambian to accept the fact that someone else is ahead. We have to
realise that different people have differente endowments and we can
never be the same. A successful Gambian is an asset to us all. If Dr.
Nyang would pardon me for using him as an example, we all take pride in
the fact that he is a professor at an American university. We all take
pride in the fact that he is at times invited to be resident professor,
speaker or something else. So if a Gambian succeeds in doing what he/she
does, why should we be jealous? That person deserves it because he/she
worked for it. Maybe if we spend less time being jealous and more time
trying, we will also succeed.
There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed.
They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who
are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians,
that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is
human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way
and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come
together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is
in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us
are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks.
Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Ousman Gajigo wrote:
> =
> > Hi!
> > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most
> > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to
> > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and
> > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and=
in
> > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for Wol=
lofs
> > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based o=
n
> > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us prosper=
s.
> > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of
> > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up business=
es.
> > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting, "taysantays=
"
> > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can
> > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we ....
> > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be
> > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost?
> =
> When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I
> think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very
> good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong
> but what's up with these sweeping statements? I don't think this is a
> recommendable way to spark meaningful discussion on issues.
> =
> >Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in
> > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for
> > Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are
> > celebrated based on tribal lines.
> =
> These ones are very important points. I'm not really ready to
> discuss them in detail right now. I personally would like to see more
> emphasis on nationality or African, than on individual tribes. But
> there is nothing wrong with people identifying themselves with their
> tribes as long as there is mutual respect. In fact this is natural
> for most people I know because tribes have been in existence
> since time immemorial. When did we have a "Gambia" as we know it
> today and is it our creation? In fact, in attempting
> to identify us into Gambian, one defeat the purpose because we are
> drawing another line between Africans. The point is, if we are going
> to attack separation base on ethnic groups, we should not stop on
> modern divisive national borders but include the whole sub-saharan
> Africa. It is longshot but I don't think anyone will argue that
> it is impossible.
> =
> Ousman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:03:54 -0500 (EST)
From: YAIKAH MARIE JENG <yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971209170012.8084A-100000@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
hi Buharry,
i think your analysis was very well worded and to the point. personally,
i don't think you could have stated the facts any better. the fact of the
matter is that you are brave enough to voice out opinions that a lot of us
don't want to get into.
yaikah
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 17:19:46 -0500 (EST)
From: Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <290E2D21D95@scholar.wabash.edu>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Hi Momodou,
>First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and
>questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be
>attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative.
I'm very aware that the way you brought up your point was
deliberate and you certainly did not fail to grab my attention. You did no=
t at
all sound to me like a raving *****. My objection, which was
probably too strong and quick, was only to your strong and
general characterization (which again may not be inappropriate).
>Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren=B4t there
>Africans on the other side?
Of course they are Africans because we all live on the
"African" continent. I personally believe unity within (1)tribes, (2) The
Gambia, (3)sub-saharan Africa, (4) Africa/humanity, are all different and
larger levels in ascending order. I think they are lots of
differences between North Africa and sub-saharan Africa.
Again to repeat what I said, I think your message brought up
excellent points that need to be seriously addressed. I don't think
there are better topic to discuss right now.
Have a good day. Ousman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:36:18 EST
From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Hi
Message-ID: <2fcb6d54.348dc7e4@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
HI MARIE,
THANKS FOR THE WELCOME. WHAT'S GOING WITH YOU ? ARE WE GONNA SEE THIS
CHRISTMAS DON'T MISS OUT THE PARTY. SAY HELLO TO BOCHO, B,O, AMAR, ALHAGIE JOW
AND ALL THE REST OF THE PASSY. I WILL SEE YOU IN SWEDEN THIS SUMMER. LOVE
MAO JOBE
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:42:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9712091442.30942.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: vBcUoga0K0PJpjuxDqoV/g==
All,
Gabriel Mendy has been added to our list. Welcome aboard and please send in
your intro to gambia-l@u.washington.edu.
regards,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:51:12 PST
> From: "ebrima drameh" <njogou@hotmail.com>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> plain
X-To: GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
> X-Originating-IP: [194.83.163.253]
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> HELLO LIST MANAGERS,
> KINDLY SUBSCRIBE MR GABRIEL D. MENDY TO THE LIST.
> HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS GMENDY@HOTMAIL.COM.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:42:04 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <9712092242.AA50100@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry, you wrote:
> [...]
>
> There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed.
> They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who
> are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians,
> that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is
> human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way
> and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come
> together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is
> in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us
> are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks.
> Buharry.
>
Buharry,
This is brilliant!!!!!! I am proud of you bro!
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
===========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:29:56 -0800
From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>,
Fat Taal <ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU>,
Subject: Subcription
Message-ID: <348DFEA4.CCC04AD@cse.bridgeport.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi List Managers,
Could you please subscribe the following people to the list? Thanks.
Kumba Secka ksecka@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU
Fatoumatta Taal ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU
---------
Anna Secka
secka@cse.bridgeport.edu
* Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
-- Salvor Hardin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:39:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Subcription
Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9712091539.30815.sarian@groucho>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: xS9v+EAehtJbBEIXwyrqhg==
All,
Kumba Secka & Fatoumata Taal have been added to the list. Welcome aboard ladies
and please send in your intros to gambia-l@u.washington.edu.
regards,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:29:56 -0800
> From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Subcription
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, Fat Taal <ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU>,
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Hi List Managers,
> Could you please subscribe the following people to the list? Thanks.
>
> Kumba Secka ksecka@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU
> Fatoumatta Taal ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU
>
> ---------
> Anna Secka
> secka@cse.bridgeport.edu
>
> * Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
> -- Salvor Hardin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:12:14 EST
From: Jkrubally <Jkrubally@aol.com>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: mail to gambia-l
Message-ID: <30ed2c0b.348dec70@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="part0_881716334_boundary"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--part0_881716334_boundary
Content-ID: <0_881716334@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 97-12-09 13:09:32 EST, Mbk007 writes:
<< Hello,can yo please re- subscribe me to the list. my name is M. B.
Krubally,(
Baba ) I was a member, but was taken off for some reason that beats me.
Tha
nks. >>
--part0_881716334_boundary
Content-ID: <0_881716334@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2>
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Content-disposition: inline
From: Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com>
Return-path: <Mbk007@aol.com>
To: Jkrubally@aol.com
Subject: mail to gambia-l
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:09:32 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
jacob, can you please foward this message to the list. just copy it and send
it ti gambia-l
Hello,can yo please re- subscribe me to the list. my name is M. B. Krubally,(
Baba ) I was a member, but was taken off for some reason that beats me.
Than
ks.
--part0_881716334_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:59:13 EST
From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <2c24bd3.348e1393@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
could you please add the following to the list
Rohey Ceesay- address ROBERTAS@EROL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:39:05 +0100
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <199712101338.OAA06980@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry,
For your information, I am current general secretary of the Organization of
Gambians in Stockholm. While I fully agree that the questions you raised
are probably one of the most important, your criticism of the OGIS I think
is unfair. Even unfairer is the comparison with either the Ugandans or the
Eritreans.
I shall shortly inform this forum about a meeting to be held here
(Stockholm) soon. But until I first inform the paying members (of which you
are not one - unfortunately), I must beg everyone else to wait.
Nevertheless I shall be more than willing to contribute to this discussion
and even answer any questions whatsoever, such as may eventually be raised
- as long as I am able to obtain time to do so.
Cheers,
Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
----------
> Från: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
> Datum: den 10 december 1997 07:30
>
> Hi Ousman!
> First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and
> questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be
> attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative. So when you
> sent a reply a few hours later, I had to restrain myself from explaining
> the reason there and then. I understand that many on this list only have
> e-mail access at work or school and I sent the post on Friday evening. I
> decided to wait until Monday/Tuesday when everyone would have had the
> chance to read the first post.
>
> You wrote:
> > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I
> > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very
> > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong
> > but what's up with these sweeping statements?
>
> I did not carry out any scientific investigation into Gambian
> behaviour. I agree with you that such elements can be found in any
> society. However, in my attempt to get members´ attention, framing the
> statements in a general manner would not have done. Asking how we as
> humans can do such things is not specific enough. I also understand and
> know that these elements are a minority of Gambian society. I am not an
> intelligent fella but I sometimes try to fool myself into believing
> that I have a little bit of common sense and common sense dictates that
> all blanket statements are false. You see, I could not have literally
> meant all Gambians because if I did, my statement would have fallen even
> before being sent out because I am a Gambian and I would never dream of
> doing some of the issues raised.
> Concerning tribal affiliation, I agree that tribes are a reality of our
> society which precede the country known as Gambia. I also agree that
> there is nothing wrong with enjoying one´s tribal heritage because it is
> Gambia´s diversity that makes the country exciting and this diversity
> can be advatageous. However, the reality of the given examples go beyond
> simple tribal identification. They have become divisive factors. I can
> remember that the Mandinkas used to have their celebrations in Marietta
> whilst the Wollofs used to have theirs around the Campbellton Road area.
> I can also remember what was being said and in what tone. The situation
> in Göteborg is as bad or even worse. There is rivalry among Gambians
> based on tribal lines. This is when tribalism can become dangerous. We
> are not living in "time immemorial". We are living in the 1990s and the
> reality is that Gambia is a country made up of many tribes. If we allow
> tribalism to become divisive, the implications would be too terrible to
> even contemplate. Examples abound around Africa.
> I also believe in the ultimate unification of the African continent.
> However, if the few hundreds of us living in one city cannot come
> together as Gambians, then the dream of African unity is but an
> illusion. For African unity to be meaningful and everlasting,
> unification has to start from within the countries of the African
> continent. Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren´t there
> Africans on the other side? I talked about Gambian unity because
> Gambia-l is a Gambian forum and is as good a place to discuss Gambian
> issues as any.
> To the issues I raised in the original post. Even though it is wrong to
> generalise and say that all Gambians abroad are hopeless when it comes
> to organising themselves, I have to say that I have been unlucky enough
> to live only in cities where the organisations or those who are to be
> organised have left much to desire. In Atlanta, it was at one point the
> "kotos"/boys rivalry that plagued us and threatened any meaningful
> attempt to better our condition. In Stockholm, the same issue has
> plagued the organisation for a long time. The younger Gambians criticise
> every move the older members who have always volunteered their time to
> run the organisation make. Yet when it comes to election of officials,
> those who consistently criticise the way things are run refuse to take
> any responsibility. The same is said for some older Gambians also.
> Meetings are held for hours without a single issue being resolved. Many
> a time the meetings end in insults and sometimes physical fights. This
> has led to an organisation in tatters despite the fact that the
> organisation is not in the least poor. This has also led to an
> organisation which has the potential to accomplish much but which is
> neutralised by its own negativity. All who zealously start to contribute
> get fed up in a short period of time. That is why Gambians are one of
> the least organised groups that I know in Stockholm. Gambians are one of
> the first African groups to migrate to Sweden yet we have not
> accomplished much and cannot do much for our own. The Eritreans who
> started migrating a few years ago have concrete projects both here and
> back home through their organisation. One of the projects the Ugandans
> have is that they contribute money to take a deceased home and make a
> collection to give to his/her family back home. There are more examples.
> What do the Gambians have? Even setting up a memorial fund for the late
> Amadou Jallow, one of the founders of the organisation, to help students
> back home was plagued with so much negativity and bickering that nothing
> has come out of it. Whenever there is talk of taking some of the
> organisation´s money and investing in something worthwhile, many a
> person stands up to come up with a reason not to yet no one objects when
> the money is to be used to finance parties etc.
> Another result of our disunity is that we blow away chances both for
> ourselves and our country. Over a year ago here in Stockholm, a Gambian
> who had contacts with Huddinge Hospital learnt that they were to change
> some of their equipment and beds. He negotiated with them and they
> promised to donate the things to RVH in Banjul as long as he could take
> care of the shipment. He contacted the Gambian organisation and a
> meeting was called to discuss the issue. After explaining the situation,
> the floor was open. One of the members said that he would nominate
> someone else to accompany the things to Gambia because the person who
> came up with the idea only wanted to go to Gambia for holidays. This
> being the case, he should buy his own airticket and not expect the
> organisation to sponsor his holidays. This led to so much arguing,
> insults and literally to a physical fight. The meeting ended in chaos
> and that was the last thing about the equipment. I think the equipment
> ended up in one of the Baltic states. We all lost. Gambia lost.
> Another issue I raised dealt with reporting people to the immigration
> authorities because they overstay their visas. This is a real problem
> not only in Stockholm but even in England. Some people are notorious for
> that in London and people warn newcomers about them. They tell them not
> to tell those people how long they have been in the country. In
> Manchester a few months ago, some Gambians and a Senegalese were
> reported and the police went to their workplace, caught and deported
> them. Here in Sweden, just before visa requirements were instituted for
> Gambians, there was a massive operation and many Gambians were deported.
> Gambians were reporting each other like hell. Some were saying that the
> authorities were paying informants between 2 and 3, 000 Swedish Kronor
> for every person reported. It was really hot for those without visas for
> hardly a week went by without someone being deported. The reporting is
> still going on because just a short while ago, a person was reported and
> the police were supplied with that person´s photograph and they waited
> for that person to arrive at the gate because they had information that
> that person was on the way home. How can we be so ?
> The other issue dealt with the fact that it is difficult for many a
> Gambian to accept the fact that someone else is ahead. We have to
> realise that different people have differente endowments and we can
> never be the same. A successful Gambian is an asset to us all. If Dr.
> Nyang would pardon me for using him as an example, we all take pride in
> the fact that he is a professor at an American university. We all take
> pride in the fact that he is at times invited to be resident professor,
> speaker or something else. So if a Gambian succeeds in doing what he/she
> does, why should we be jealous? That person deserves it because he/she
> worked for it. Maybe if we spend less time being jealous and more time
> trying, we will also succeed.
> There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed.
> They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who
> are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians,
> that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is
> human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way
> and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come
> together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is
> in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us
> are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks.
> Buharry.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ousman Gajigo wrote:
> >
> > > Hi!
> > > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most
> > > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to
> > > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and
> > > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and
in
> > > Göteborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for
Wollofs
> > > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based
on
> > > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us
prospers.
> > > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of
> > > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up
businesses.
> > > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting,
"taysantays"
> > > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can
> > > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we ....
> > > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be
> > > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost?
> >
> > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I
> > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very
> > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong
> > but what's up with these sweeping statements? I don't think this is a
> > recommendable way to spark meaningful discussion on issues.
> >
> > >Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in
> > > Göteborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for
> > > Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are
> > > celebrated based on tribal lines.
> >
> > These ones are very important points. I'm not really ready to
> > discuss them in detail right now. I personally would like to see more
> > emphasis on nationality or African, than on individual tribes. But
> > there is nothing wrong with people identifying themselves with their
> > tribes as long as there is mutual respect. In fact this is natural
> > for most people I know because tribes have been in existence
> > since time immemorial. When did we have a "Gambia" as we know it
> > today and is it our creation? In fact, in attempting
> > to identify us into Gambian, one defeat the purpose because we are
> > drawing another line between Africans. The point is, if we are going
> > to attack separation base on ethnic groups, we should not stop on
> > modern divisive national borders but include the whole sub-saharan
> > Africa. It is longshot but I don't think anyone will argue that
> > it is impossible.
> >
> > Ousman
|
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11512 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:54:38
|
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:21:58 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Members
Message-ID: <19971210162219.AAA45942@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings,
Rohey Ceesay and Sainabou Jah have been added to the list. Welcome
to Gambia-l, you can send a brief introduction to
gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:25:53 -0500
From: Sailey_Sey <SeyS@husson.edu>
To: "'The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List '"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>,
Subject: RE: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <B1AFF5622706D11180320000F80326D619953B@mail.husson.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Buharry,
You couldn't have said it any better. Hopefully, people will read =
this
and get their acts together. We need to
remember that jealousy will not take us anywhere, but backwards. Like
you said, only hardwork will make us=20
prosper. Being abroad especially should open our eyes to the
discrimination and hatred that's going on. Almost=20
all of us have relatives from other tribes, and degrading another tribe
is the same as degrading yourself. Let's not
succum to such foolishness. Forget tribalism, ethnocentrism, and all
that crap, and let's come together as Gambians.
A whole lot more can be accoplished that way.
si jama
Sailey
=20
----------
From: Momodou S Sidibeh
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Sent: 12/10/97 8:39:05 AM
Subject: SV: Is It In Our Nature?
Buharry,
For your information, I am current general secretary of the =
Organization
of
Gambians in Stockholm. While I fully agree that the questions you =
raised
are probably one of the most important, your criticism of the OGIS I
think
is unfair. Even unfairer is the comparison with either the Ugandans or
the
Eritreans.
I shall shortly inform this forum about a meeting to be held here
(Stockholm) soon. But until I first inform the paying members (of which
you
are not one - unfortunately), I must beg everyone else to wait.
Nevertheless I shall be more than willing to contribute to this
discussion
and even answer any questions whatsoever, such as may eventually be
raised
- as long as I am able to obtain time to do so.
Cheers,
Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
----------
> Fr=E5n: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA=20
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> =C4mne: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
> Datum: den 10 december 1997 07:30
>=20
> Hi Ousman!
> First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements
and
> questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be
> attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative. So when =
you
> sent a reply a few hours later, I had to restrain myself from
explaining
> the reason there and then. I understand that many on this list only
have
> e-mail access at work or school and I sent the post on Friday =
evening.
I
> decided to wait until Monday/Tuesday when everyone would have had the
> chance to read the first post.
>=20
> You wrote:
> > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? =
I
> > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very=20
> > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong =
> > but what's up with these sweeping statements?
>=20
> I did not carry out any scientific investigation into Gambian
> behaviour. I agree with you that such elements can be found in any
> society. However, in my attempt to get members=B4 attention, framing =
the
> statements in a general manner would not have done. Asking how we as
> humans can do such things is not specific enough. I also understand
and
> know that these elements are a minority of Gambian society. I am not
an
> intelligent fella but I sometimes try to fool myself into believing
> that I have a little bit of common sense and common sense dictates
that
> all blanket statements are false. You see, I could not have literally
> meant all Gambians because if I did, my statement would have fallen
even
> before being sent out because I am a Gambian and I would never dream
of
> doing some of the issues raised.
> Concerning tribal affiliation, I agree that tribes are a reality
of our
> society which precede the country known as Gambia. I also agree that
> there is nothing wrong with enjoying one=B4s tribal heritage because =
it
is
> Gambia=B4s diversity that makes the country exciting and this =
diversity
> can be advatageous. However, the reality of the given examples go
beyond
> simple tribal identification. They have become divisive factors. I =
can
> remember that the Mandinkas used to have their celebrations in
Marietta
> whilst the Wollofs used to have theirs around the Campbellton Road
area.
> I can also remember what was being said and in what tone. The
situation
> in G=F6teborg is as bad or even worse. There is rivalry among =
Gambians
> based on tribal lines. This is when tribalism can become dangerous. =
We
> are not living in "time immemorial". We are living in the 1990s and
the
> reality is that Gambia is a country made up of many tribes. If we
allow
> tribalism to become divisive, the implications would be too terrible
to
> even contemplate. Examples abound around Africa.
> I also believe in the ultimate unification of the African
continent.
> However, if the few hundreds of us living in one city cannot come
> together as Gambians, then the dream of African unity is but an
> illusion. For African unity to be meaningful and everlasting,
> unification has to start from within the countries of the African
> continent. Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren=B4t there
> Africans on the other side? I talked about Gambian unity because
> Gambia-l is a Gambian forum and is as good a place to discuss Gambian
> issues as any.
> To the issues I raised in the original post. Even though it is
wrong to
> generalise and say that all Gambians abroad are hopeless when it =
comes
> to organising themselves, I have to say that I have been unlucky
enough
> to live only in cities where the organisations or those who are to be
> organised have left much to desire. In Atlanta, it was at one point
the
> "kotos"/boys rivalry that plagued us and threatened any meaningful
> attempt to better our condition. In Stockholm, the same issue has
> plagued the organisation for a long time. The younger Gambians
criticise
> every move the older members who have always volunteered their time =
to
> run the organisation make. Yet when it comes to election of =
officials,
> those who consistently criticise the way things are run refuse to =
take
> any responsibility. The same is said for some older Gambians also.
> Meetings are held for hours without a single issue being resolved.
Many
> a time the meetings end in insults and sometimes physical fights. =
This
> has led to an organisation in tatters despite the fact that the
> organisation is not in the least poor. This has also led to an
> organisation which has the potential to accomplish much but which is
> neutralised by its own negativity. All who zealously start to
contribute
> get fed up in a short period of time. That is why Gambians are one of
> the least organised groups that I know in Stockholm. Gambians are one
of
> the first African groups to migrate to Sweden yet we have not
> accomplished much and cannot do much for our own. The Eritreans who
> started migrating a few years ago have concrete projects both here =
and
> back home through their organisation. One of the projects the =
Ugandans
> have is that they contribute money to take a deceased home and make a
> collection to give to his/her family back home. There are more
examples.
> What do the Gambians have? Even setting up a memorial fund for the
late
> Amadou Jallow, one of the founders of the organisation, to help
students
> back home was plagued with so much negativity and bickering that
nothing
> has come out of it. Whenever there is talk of taking some of the
> organisation=B4s money and investing in something worthwhile, many a
> person stands up to come up with a reason not to yet no one objects
when
> the money is to be used to finance parties etc.
> Another result of our disunity is that we blow away chances both
for
> ourselves and our country. Over a year ago here in Stockholm, a
Gambian
> who had contacts with Huddinge Hospital learnt that they were to
change
> some of their equipment and beds. He negotiated with them and they
> promised to donate the things to RVH in Banjul as long as he could
take
> care of the shipment. He contacted the Gambian organisation and a
> meeting was called to discuss the issue. After explaining the
situation,
> the floor was open. One of the members said that he would nominate
> someone else to accompany the things to Gambia because the person who
> came up with the idea only wanted to go to Gambia for holidays. This
> being the case, he should buy his own airticket and not expect the
> organisation to sponsor his holidays. This led to so much arguing,
> insults and literally to a physical fight. The meeting ended in chaos
> and that was the last thing about the equipment. I think the =
equipment
> ended up in one of the Baltic states. We all lost. Gambia lost.
> Another issue I raised dealt with reporting people to the
immigration
> authorities because they overstay their visas. This is a real problem
> not only in Stockholm but even in England. Some people are notorious
for
> that in London and people warn newcomers about them. They tell them
not
> to tell those people how long they have been in the country. In
> Manchester a few months ago, some Gambians and a Senegalese were
> reported and the police went to their workplace, caught and deported
> them. Here in Sweden, just before visa requirements were instituted
for
> Gambians, there was a massive operation and many Gambians were
deported.
> Gambians were reporting each other like hell. Some were saying that
the
> authorities were paying informants between 2 and 3, 000 Swedish =
Kronor
> for every person reported. It was really hot for those without visas
for
> hardly a week went by without someone being deported. The reporting =
is
> still going on because just a short while ago, a person was reported
and
> the police were supplied with that person=B4s photograph and they =
waited
> for that person to arrive at the gate because they had information
that
> that person was on the way home. How can we be so ?
> The other issue dealt with the fact that it is difficult for
many a
> Gambian to accept the fact that someone else is ahead. We have to
> realise that different people have differente endowments and we can
> never be the same. A successful Gambian is an asset to us all. If =
Dr.
> Nyang would pardon me for using him as an example, we all take pride
in
> the fact that he is a professor at an American university. We all =
take
> pride in the fact that he is at times invited to be resident
professor,
> speaker or something else. So if a Gambian succeeds in doing what
he/she
> does, why should we be jealous? That person deserves it because =
he/she
> worked for it. Maybe if we spend less time being jealous and more =
time
> trying, we will also succeed.
> There are many more issues of this nature that need to be
discussed.
> They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who
> are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians,
> that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is
> human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the
way
> and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come
> together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it
is
> in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us
> are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks.
> Buharry.
>=20
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-
> Ousman Gajigo wrote:
> >=20
> > > Hi!
> > > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most
> > > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been
to
> > > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and
> > > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there)
and
in
> > > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for
Wollofs
> > > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated
based
on
> > > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us
prospers.
> > > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of
> > > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up
businesses.
> > > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting,
"taysantays"
> > > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that
can
> > > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we ....
> > > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to =
be
> > > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost?
> >=20
> > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? =
I
> > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very
> > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong
> > but what's up with these sweeping statements? I don't think this is
a
> > recommendable way to spark meaningful discussion on issues.
> >=20
> > >Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in
> > > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for
> > > Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are
> > > celebrated based on tribal lines.
> >=20
> > These ones are very important points. I'm not really ready to
> > discuss them in detail right now. I personally would like to see
more
> > emphasis on nationality or African, than on individual tribes. But
> > there is nothing wrong with people identifying themselves with =
their
> > tribes as long as there is mutual respect. In fact this is natural
> > for most people I know because tribes have been in existence
> > since time immemorial. When did we have a "Gambia" as we know it
> > today and is it our creation? In fact, in attempting
> > to identify us into Gambian, one defeat the purpose because we are
> > drawing another line between Africans. The point is, if we are =
going
> > to attack separation base on ethnic groups, we should not stop on
> > modern divisive national borders but include the whole sub-saharan
> > Africa. It is longshot but I don't think anyone will argue that
> > it is impossible.
> >=20
> > Ousman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:26:48 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <19971210212711.AAA18954@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Greetings,
Here is my few bututs to this topic.
On 6 Dec 97 at 0:36, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA wrote:
> Hi!
> I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most
> disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to
> outside Gambia.
I do not quite agree with this statement because I have been told
several times by other Africans I meet here that we Gambians are
among the most organised African groups here in Scandinavia. The
Gambian Organizations in Stockholm (OGIS), The Gambian Organization
in Oslo and The Gambian Society in Denmark have a long relationship
of cooperation over the last 15 years or more. The organizations have
football tournaments yearly during the summer which even makes
other countries envious. I don't know if you are aware that he are
visiting each other every year and the Copenhagen team has always
been unbeatable:-)))
Here in Denmark, the Gambian Society was the first African
Organization to establish their own premises ( lokale) for many years
until it was later closed because of circumstances. We still have
only one organization which is not based on any tribal or political
lines. Although it is dormant until someone dies, national day
celebrations like independence and the usual summer football
tournaments. So our situation is not that hopeless.
I can see your point too but we must understand that even in Gambia,
we have different political parties and associations.
>Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and
> representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there)
> and in Göteborg here in Sweden we have organizations or nightclubs
> for Wollofs and others for Mandinkas.
I do agree with you here that there are cities where there are
associations based on backward tribal lines. These associations are
mostly lead by people who always hide behind lies and manipulation.
During the mid 1980s, we were invited to a football match in Göteborg
(Gothenburg). The day before we left someone called to our chairman
and said that we were invited by a tribalist organization.
In spite of that, we went and to my surprise the association
consisted of Wollofs, Mandinkas, Akus, Fullas and a few other
nationalities from Africa.
It was later that we realized that there were two organizations
there. My opinion is that these organizations were divided because of
political reasons. I might be wrong!!
> Why it is difficult to accept it
> when one of us prospers. Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay
> their visas instead of helping them. Why we refuse to patronise
> Gambians who set up businesses.
Because they think he/she will become too rich and build a house
bigger than theirs in Gambia:-)))))
> Why we involve in petty squabbles
> and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" etc. instead of channelling our
> energies towards endeavours that can improve our lot both in Babylon
> and back home. Why we ....
> Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be
> disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost?
> Buharry.
These are very important questions to ask and I thank you for your
courage in bringing this topic.
Peace
Momodou Camara
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:03:23 -0000
From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome
Message-ID: <B0000023059@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
via Commit
Folks, Bro Buharry & Others,
In summer 1991, I took my first job/internship with a minority or
black-owned construction company and it was an eye-opener, there was so
much infighting, negativity, backbiting and even spying and reporting to
the MAN or MASSA as the system was called; and it was all black on black;
it was very painful and defeating..as Bro Bass wolud put it..to see the
reality as opposed to the ideals of BLACK and PROUD, UNITY etc...
being young, educated and very idealistic and very AFRICAN and BLACK, I
lamented with my 55 year old African-American boss, who was like a father,
he laughed and told me about the CRAB SYNDROME.."when you put a lot of
crabs in a bucket, say, you do not need to cover it, cos everytime a crab
tries to climb out, another would crab it and pull it back"..
so in the ghettos, the little Haitis, Little Jamaicas, and little Gambias,
all over the world where one of a kind are concentrated; the lowest common
denominator sets in..and nobody should get better; it is an extension of
the poverty culture...
a prominent law professor at Fourah Bay college, Sierra Leone with LLB,
LLM, PHD etc...said that the problem with Sierra Leone (it could be GAmbia,
Africa or Africa in America or Europe..with concentrations of our people)
was that there were too many people with PHD, that is the Pull Him DOwn
syndrome...
in July 1994, when the coup took place in the Gambia, a lot of us lamented
the sorry fact it had to take a military putsch for change to occur, anyhow
you look at it, the coup was a generational change, the 30yr olds took over
from the 60-70 yr olds, the 40-50 yr olds were do nothins and just happy to
be there club; but taking advantage of opportune times, opprotunists kicked
in, and very soon the ideals of a new generation taking over responsibility
gave way to the PHD, anybody who was somebody or had something must have
robbed, pillaged or stolen, in other words, we Africans or blacks or
Gambians could just not ever make it without being corrupt or
something,..can you imagine the ramifications and import of that
thinking...
...even those that do not support the military incursion in civil govt.
recognised that a change was overdue but nobody thought it was to turn out
so...the reporting on each other, ill-wishing each other, the eagerness for
one or another's misfortune within families, neighbourhoods, etc..in those
agonising days, I said that for once, we saw some unsavoury aspect of our
true nature and that is the same nature you have raised in this topic.
I hold that if everytime we demolish everything in order to built, we will
never get there, we will never improve, never learn from our mistakes...
where did we get this affliction from?
I am not a sociologist nor a psychologists but I saw an Ad in the US about
space..a monkey in a tight space was fidgetting and monkeying around, but
in fairly large space, calmed down and became..almost human...you think it
could be about psychological and physical space...economic, mental and
cultural space, our existing social structure and set up is constrained
econimically, we are poor and undeveloped compared to say the West or even
Asia, according to all the information we get; mentally: we are consigned
to bottom of the human tree, closer to apes, last in development, in
education, in our contribution to the eurocentric world, in religious
terms, etc..and cultural; we are savages, uncivilised etc...(THAT IS THERE
STORY or the MAN'S STORY or HIS-STORY, not MY STORY)
so given all these space constraints, the lack of space to define
ourselves, develop ourselves, educate (properly) ourselves, we have become
the MONKEY in the CAGE ..
so is it our nature?
maybe some aspect of our human nature..a part of the SELF instinct and the
SURVIVAL instinct..part of the LIBIDO..the will to live: that should
controlled but under the conditions in the GHETTO or the CONCENTRATON CAMPS
or such harsh and deprived conditions, the INSTINCT for the SELF or one to
SURVIVE takes over and there is no room for CONSCIENCE or GUILT;
The sad fact is 1998 years AD, we have to deal with this as part of our
reality..in The GAmbia, in Wash., DC, in SOWETO, in STOCKHOLM or HAMBURG or
LONDON or in FREETOWN
How do we get over this?
Exactly like this, by raising it and discussing it, deep down, we all want
to be FIRST, that is OKAY but we realise that WE ALL CANNOT BE FIRST at ALL
TIMES and EVERYTHING, that too is OKAY and NORMAL; the opposite is not
NORMAL
we also have to be honest about OURSELVES
but equally paramount is strive and create an environment for our people
that is unlike the MONKEY CAGE we live in...
that is my 5 dalasis on this and i look forward to your comments
----------
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:34:57 -0500 (EST)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New Members
Message-ID: <199712102234.RAA08739@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 11:26:59 1997
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:21:58 +0200
> From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: New Members
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Greetings,
> Rohey Ceesay and Sainabou Jah have been added to the list. Welcome
> to Gambia-l, you can send a brief introduction to
> gambia-l@u.washington.edu
>
>
> Momodou Camara
>
I must take opportunity to welcome our new members. I have noticed that our subscription managers are very busy these days. Keep up the good work down (up?) there!
malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:16:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971210150838.4142A-100000@saul10.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >
> > From: nyang@cldc.howard.edu
> > This is a brief contribution to the question of slavery in Africa. In
> > order to shed light on this matter I intend to develop five points to
> > remember about the subject.First of all, it should be noted that slavery
> > existed in all human societies. Africans are not exempted from this human
> > tradedy. However, we must not misuse a term to describe a situation that
> > is different from the old concept of slavery. There were two forms of
> > slavery in the old Africa. There were slaves who, as in almost all ancient
> > societies, were the victims of war. Since there were no Geneva or Haque
> > conventions governing the rules of warfare, the prisoners of war (POWS)
> > and those Missing in Action (MIA) were usually captured as slaves.This is
> > to say, those who were defeated in the battlefield ended up as slaves in
> > the households of the victors or wound up in their graves if and when
> > perceived as future troublemakers.There were those who ended up in slavery
> > because they broke taboos in the society or were used as collaterals in
> > servicing debts owed by families and clans. Many Senegambians found
> > themselves in the Americas because of this phenomenon. Francis Moore in
> > his book on the Senegambia region , published in the eighteenth century ,
> > mentioned the case of a fellow who was about to be
> > sent to the Americas because he stole tobacco. Mungo Park reported the
> > fact that some families placed their offspring in the custody of more
> > affluent persons during famine and "hungry seasons". Details on
> > Senegambian forms of slavery can be gleaned from the writings of Peter
> > Weil (the American anthropologist)and Canadian historian Martin Klein.Both
> > scholars have examined this issue in the historical and anthropological
> > context. The second point is that slavery in Africa was not
> > commodified.Hence the radical and fundamental difference between slavery
> > in the Americas and slavery in African lands. The kind of slavery American
> > historians call "the peculiar institution" in American history was unknown in
> > pre-colonial Africa.However, I should hasten to add that Africans became
> > partners in the traffic in human cargo soon after the concept of
> > comodified slavery was introduced. Without African players there could not
> > have developed this massive transplantation of millions from the continent
> > to the Americas.This is why American whites, Europeans and continental
> > Africans owe an apology to all blacks and persons of mixed parentage in
> > the Americas.Those of us living in Africa, Europe and America are not
> > directly responsible for this tragedy. It was certainly our ancestors who
> > perpetrated such acts of inhumanity. Not all Africans were involved,but
> > the crime can only be forgiven when the victims and their descendants are
> > assured by the grandchildren and great-grand-children of the perpetrators
> > that they are willing to own up to the act of their ancestors. Not all
> > Germans were directly involved in the Holocaust against the Jews, but in
> > order to re-assure the Jews of German goodwill, German leaders and their
> > people had to own up. Certainly the intention here is not to compare the
> > Nazi premeditated liquidation of a group of human beings simply because of
> > their ethno-religious identity, to what happened during the slave trade.
> > Rather, we wish to demonstrate that every human act has consequences, and
> > those who perpetrate criminal acts must bear responsibility for what they
> > do in human society. This is the only way we can create civilised
> > societies. The principle applies now as in the past. Modern African
> > dictators are as accountable as those unknown beneficiaries of the slave
> > trade. The third point is that human rights of violated children in Africa
> > should not be grouped under slavery. They should be properly classified as
> > "child abuse" and international and national legislations should be
> > developed to address this problem worldwide. Africans who are serious
> > about this matter must mobilize and serve notice to their cultural and
> > national cousins who engage in such nefarious acts.By misnaming such a
> > phenomenon as "slavery" we unintentionally trivialize the problem. Those
> > who engage in denial of child abuse cases in their societies would charge
> > interested parties with exaggerations and propaganda. When properly
> > identified and described, the problem receives the appropiate attention
> > and international claim against its existence is brought to bear. This is
> > what happened under apartheid.We had a violation of African rights and
> > freedoms and we use everything within our power to change it.Like
> > commodified slavery it too has been buried in the trash can of history.The
> > fourth point to be made here is that each and every agrarian society has
> > visible and not so visible forms of discrimination and exploitation of one
> > segment of society or the other. In the Senegambia region we too have our
> > own social problems.What needs to be done by both the Gambian and
> > Senegalese governments is to study the traditional forms of culture which
> > have rationalised such practices and then draft legislations to address
> > the problem. When the British decided to formally colonize the Gambia,
> > they faced a number of African practices which they deem unacceptable. One
> > of these problems was domestic slavery.After having abolished
> > trans-atlantic slavery in 1807, and having relied effectively on the power
> > and might of the British Navy to enforce the ban against the traffic in
> > human flesh, the British began to deal with domestic slavery among certain
> > Gambian ethnic groups.Here again the term slavery was a source of
> > conceptual difficulties in the dialogue between the Europeans and their
> > African subjects.According to Peter Weil, one out of every six Gambians
> > during this period was of slave origin. If we are to accept this sizable
> > number , we can then see the magnitude of the British problem. The problem
> > of "eliminating slavery" was accomplished in 1906 when the British had
> > sufficient power to enforce their laws all over the Gambia.But what was
> > called slavery was actually the patron/client relationship that existed
> > between indebted and conquered persons or families.This pattern of social
> > interaction has not changed and there are still "client persons and
> > families." in the Gambian countryside.They are not slaves in the sense we
> > understood slavery in pre-colonial times, nor are they part of the modern
> > concept of waged labor (proletariat). They are closer to the European
> > concept of serfs.But here again subtle differences exist and the student
> > of Senegambian history must appreciate the metamorphosis that took place
> > among the Cheddoes who switched loyalties from defeated Wolof and Tukulor
> > ruling families to Senegambian marabouts. The devotion of certain tulab
> > (students of Sufi masters) to their leaders and their willingness to work
> > free of charge on their farms parallel the serfs of Europe. Both parties
> > are willing to give service in exchange for protection. The European serf
> > is socially better off than the slave of old,however, his master still
> > exercises greater control over his freedom of social and physical
> > mobility.The great difference between the African serf and the European
> > lies in the fact that one seeks protection from the dangers of the state
> > of nature,to use the language of the social contract theorists, and the
> > other seeks guidance on the highway of life leading to Heaven.The European
> > serf is protected by his master from the ravages of war, and the African
> > is protected from the evil eye and the Satanic seductions which could
> > block his access to Baraka.The fifth and last point to note here is that
> > slavery should be globally condemned in any form. In this day and age
> > the forms of slavery discussed above can only exist with state connivance.
> > Just as we now fight uncompromisingly against any form of state or group
> > terrorism, all of us in the international community must join hands in
> > exposing, describing and condemning any and all manifestations of
> > slavery.One of the main challenges of our coming century is is to put an
> > end to all vestiges and manifestations of slavery, social discriminations
> > and prejudices backed by state institutions.We can build a genuine
> > global civilization when the fredoom of a child, a woman and a man
> > can no longer become the plaything of an arrogant and repressive human
> > being.
> > Sulayman S. Nyang
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:36:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Subject: Gambia educational Support Organization -final call for comments.
Message-ID: <199712102336.SAA08751@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
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This is a reminder that comments and suggestions on the Gambia Education Support Organization draft until Moday December 15. This is to allow time for drafting team to present the final draft on Dec 22.
I would encourage all to give it some of your valuable time and go through the document. The drafting team realized that your comments and suggestions can only make the draft a better one.
Thank You all.
malanding jaiteh
ps I will attach below the document for those do did not have a copy earlier. My apologies to those who had previous copy.
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Gambia Educational Support Organisation
I. Mission
The mission of the Gambia Educational Support Organisation is to
provide assistance to Gambians and Gambian institutions in
education in the Gambia. A vital part of the Organization's
mission will be to become a medium through which intellectual,
logistic and material resources of Gambians and friends of the
Gambia can be utilized to improve education in the Gambia.
To this end, the Organization will:
Provide intellectual, material, logistic and other support to
individuals and institutions in need at all levels of education
in the Gambia.
Facilitate access to information and resources on education and
research in the Gambia.
Improve coordination and communication among members to support
education in the Gambia.
Develop and maintain a responsive and financially stable
organization.
II. Organizational structure:
1. General Membership
Membership to the Organization is open to all(Gambians
and non-Gambians). There shall be two categories of
membership, voting-and non-voting members. Non-voting
members are one-time contributors. Voting members will
be required to pay annual membership fees as determined
by the Organization. All voting members will have the
right to vote and run for office. Members who fail to
fulfill their obligations will cease to have the above
rights.
2. Executive Committee
The Organisation will conduct its overall activity
through the Executive Committee. The Executive
Committee will oversee the planning and implementation
of the Organization's activities. The Committee will be
voted in every two years. It shall consist of the
Executive Director, Deputy Executive Director,
ex-Executive Director, three Zonal Coordinators (Gamabia,
Europe and America), and a Financial Comptroller.
Executive Committee members and responsibilities
i. Executive Director
The Executive Director is the Chief Executive Officer
of the Organization and is:
a) responsible for coordinating the Organization's
efforts to fulfill its mission.
b) the principal liason officer between the
Organization and others parties
c) carry out the responsibilities of any Executive
Committee member who is unable to fulfil his/her duties
until a replacement is named.
d) be a signatory to the Organizations account.
ii. Ex-Executive Director
The responsibility of the ex-Executive Director shall
be to facilitate smooth transition from one Executive
Committees to another. The role is largely advisory and
would only vote within the committee to break a tie.
iii. The Financial Comptroller
Shall be the principal custodian of the Organization's
funds. The Financial Comptroller responsibilities shall
include, overseeing fundraisers; collection and
disbursing funds; financial record keeping and regular
reporting. He/she will be a signatory to the
Organization's account.
iv. Zonal Coordinators
Geographically the Organization will be divided to
three zones: Europe, America and Gambia. Members in
other regions can chose their zone of affliation at
their convenience. Each zone will be run by a comittee of
three to be led by a Zonal Coordinator. Zonal Coordinators
will oversee Organizational activities in their zones and
will act and speak on behave of their zones.
3. Ad hoc Committees (Working Committees)
The Working Committee members will be appointed by the
Executive Committee on need bases. The Working
Committees will be technical working groups to prepare
activity plans, or implement activities. The Working
Committee will be disolved at the end of their
assignment or at the discretion of the Executive Committee.
4. Financial/Fundraising Committee
The Organizations will raise the necessary finances
through membership fees, individual contributions and
fundraisers. The Committee will be the Organization's
official fundraiser. The committee shall coordinate all
fundraising activities and will consist of three
members and the Financial Comptroller as chair. The
Committee will be charged with determining annual
membership fees. If this Organization is dissolved all
its net funds will be donated to an institution or
institutions of its choice.
5. Election Committee
A three member election committee shall be chosen by the general body
every two years. Members of this committee cannot run for any other
ofiice during their tenure as election officials. The committee shall
prepare their own working document to be approved by the general
membership. They will be independent from other committees in the
Organization and will have final say in on election results.
6. Audit Unit
This unit will help ensure that the organization's funds are used as
specified. The unit will comprise of a Chairperson and two committee
members. Members of the committee will be voted every two years and
shall not concurrently hold any other positions within the
organization. The unit will prepare its own operational document t be
approved by the General mambership.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:41:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Subject: Gambia Educational Support Plan -final call for comments
Message-ID: <199712102341.SAA08756@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
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This is part two of the Gambia Educational Support Plan for comments and suggestions.
Comments can be directed to the List or to msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Malanding jaiteh
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Document Two
Activity Plan.
Focus 1: Program for Institutions in Education .
The long-term goal of this focus is to help upgrade library and
laboratory facilities(including computer) facilities in selected
schools and intitutions. The activities will be implemented
concurrently. With some initiatives already being discussed every
effort will be made to make those the priority. These are the
Gambia College Library and Coputer facilities initiative and the
Give-a-book drive.
Activity 1.1 Gambia College library support
Several members have reported the need for a more up-to-date Library
Gambia College. The Primary objective of ths activity is to
provide the College Library with basic textbooks and other Reference
material. To achieve this objective it is suggested that:
each member to contribute at least one book and $US10 for shipping and
handling each year.
each Zone will be resposible for collection and shipping to
the Gambia.
that the organization approach agencies and other bodies for
assistance in transportation of these books.
Activity 1.2 Computer facility upgrade
The objective of this activity is to donate 10 computers to
Gambia College, the National Library system and secondary schools
in the Country over a 5 year period.
This will include:
5 Pentium based Multi-media Pcs @ $1500 = $7500
5 x86 PCs (preferably used) @ $750 = $3750
5 Bubble jet printers @ $500 = $2500
Activity 1.3 School classroom support
The aim of this activity is to provide classroom materials and
textbooks to selected Primary and Junior Secondary schools each.
Primary School
5000 Pencils
5000 erasers
2000 sharperners
2000 rulers
2000 color pencils
2000 crayons
500 textbooks
50 teachers guides
Focus 2: Program for Individual Development
The goal of this is to support students in need. To achieve this,
the organization will provide financial assistance through short
grants and scholarships, stationery and book award to students in
financial difficulties. The organization will set up a Students
Advisory and Mentorship Program to advice students.
Activity 2.1 Adopt a student/pupil
The organization's objective is to sponsor 10 students, 5 at
Primary and 5 at Secondary Schooleach years. These sponsorship
could range from one time payment of bills to payment of tuition
and books. Recipients will have to demonstrate they are in
considerable financial hardship. The Gambia Zonal Co-ordinator
will in consultation with the rest of the Executive Committee
oversee selection of recipients and disbursement of funds.
Current cost of funding 5 Secondary School students at $150 per student
per year amounts to $750. Cost of funding Primary school students
is estimated at $50 per student per year. This amounts to $250
per year. This amount may change each year due ti changes in the cost of
living.
Cost of 1 year sponsorship.
5 Student @ $150 - $750
5 Pupils @ $50 = $250
Starting 1999, competitions will be supported in essay writing,
science and art projects and award granted. Awards in these
competitions will be in the form of one-time awards.
Activity 2.1 Mentorship and Guidance activity
It is the belief that members of this Organization are notable
role models to many Gambian students in the Gambia. The purpose of this
activity is to take advantage of this possibility and to established
contact between students particularly Senior Secondary school students in the Gambia andmembers of this organization. The activity will also focus on aadvising students on matters such as careers, courses, Standardized exams and study abroad. A Working Committe to compile guidelines on careers, scholarships and study abroad.
Focus 3: Education Information Pragram
A comprehensive information on education in the Gambia is vital
for planning and development of the educational system. The goal of this
focus is to facilitate access to basic information on eduction
in the Gambia such as school enrolment, student-teacher ratio, as well as
laboratory and classroom facilities. This information will make this infromation available to individuals and organizations that may not have access to the internet. It is hoped that easy access to such data would assist planners and organizations interested in hte development of Gambian education.
Activity 3.1 Develop and maintain an Internet Education
Resource Center for the Gambia
The primary objective of this activity is to develop a HomePage
to publish basic information database on education in the Gambia.
The directory will contain information on school enrollment; number of
teachers and qualification; The database will contain information
on all schools from Primaty to Higher Edcuation Institutions.
Primary Schools
Year
No. of Classrooms
No. of students
No. of Teachers (uncertified and certified)
student-textbook ratio
Secondary Schools
Year
No. of classrooms
no. of students
no. of teachers(qualification)
student-textbook ratio
Higher Institutions
No. of classrooms
no. of students
No. of teachers(qualification)
Programs offered
A database of Gambians professonals abroad
The purpose of this is to develop and maintain a database on
Gambian professionals around the world. It is hoped that employers
in the Gambia will use the database a resource pool. It is important to note that entries in this database will be purely voluntary and will include names, profession(or intended profession), and contact address.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:19:53 PST
From: "latjor ndow" <latjor@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: new member
Message-ID: <19971211041953.27985.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Greetings:
Gabriel D. Mendy has been added to the list. Welcome to our bantaba
and please send a brief introduction of your self to the list. Our
address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
LatJor
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:31:05 PST
From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <199712110431.UAA29468@f134.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Dear fellow gambians,
I would also like to add my "buree and nyata" to what Mr. Momodou Camara
contributed to Momodou Buhari Gassama's topic " Is it our Nature"? Here
in Malaysia also, the Gambian community is rapidly increasing and there
is no element of disorderliness. Everybody is well- behaved and we are
also engaged in programmes which enhance co-operation among us.At such
programmes, we always remind one another to respect the laws of
Malaysia and to behave as decent Gambian citizens who are all goodwill
ambassadors of our country. This has worked very positive and Mr. Camara
also mentioned something like this. So briefly, I would say Gambians
are not regarded as the most disorganised society in most of the foreign
countries.
I would also want to advise fellow Gambians to always respect the laws
of the lands wherever they may find themselves to prevent humiliation.
>From the Famous Demba Conta's album United States of Africa, the track "
Gambian Children", he did say there:
Gambian children
Don't let be pitinised
Don't let be humiliated.
So do not attempt to do things which may tarnish the good image of the
Gambians as very civilised, less troublesome and law-abiding.
I thank Mr. Camara for his brilliant contribution to the issue.
I also appreciate Mr. Buhari Gassama for bringing up this type of
issues. Thank you Mr.Gassama.
Best of luck to all Gambians in their endeavours.
Sillah Conateh.
>From gambia-l-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 13:41:45 1997
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>Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:26:48 +0200
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>From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
>To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature?
>In-Reply-To: <34890E85.2E92@swipnet.se>
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>
>Greetings,
>Here is my few bututs to this topic.
>
>On 6 Dec 97 at 0:36, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>> I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most
>> disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to
>> outside Gambia.=20
>
>I do not quite agree with this statement because I have been told=20
>several times by other Africans I meet here that we Gambians are=20
>among the most organised African groups here in Scandinavia. The=20
>Gambian Organizations in Stockholm (OGIS), The Gambian Organization=20
>in Oslo and The Gambian Society in Denmark have a long relationship=20
>of cooperation over the last 15 years or more. The organizations
have=20
>football tournaments yearly during the summer which even makes
>other countries envious. I don't know if you are aware that he are=20
>visiting each other every year and the Copenhagen team has always=20
>been unbeatable:-)))
>
>Here in Denmark, the Gambian Society was the first African=20
>Organization to establish their own premises ( lokale) for many
years=20
>until it was later closed because of circumstances. We still have=20
>only one organization which is not based on any tribal or political=20
>lines. Although it is dormant until someone dies, national day=20
>celebrations like independence and the usual summer football=20
>tournaments. So our situation is not that hopeless.
>
>I can see your point too but we must understand that even in Gambia,=20
>we have different political parties and associations.
>
>>Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and
>> representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there)
>> and in G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organizations or nightclubs
>> for Wollofs and others for Mandinkas.
>
>I do agree with you here that there are cities where there are=20
>associations based on backward tribal lines. These associations are=20
>mostly lead by people who always hide behind lies and manipulation.
>
>During the mid 1980s, we were invited to a football match in
G=F6teborg=20
>(Gothenburg). The day before we left someone called to our chairman=20
>and said that we were invited by a tribalist organization.=20
>In spite of that, we went and to my surprise the association=20
>consisted of Wollofs, Mandinkas, Akus, Fullas and a few other=20
>nationalities from Africa.=20
>
>It was later that we realized that there were two organizations=20
>there. My opinion is that these organizations were divided because
of=20
>political reasons. I might be wrong!!=20
>
>
>> Why it is difficult to accept it
>> when one of us prospers. Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay
>> their visas instead of helping them. Why we refuse to patronise
>> Gambians who set up businesses.
>
>Because they think he/she will become too rich and build a house=20
>bigger than theirs in Gambia:-)))))
>
>> Why we involve in petty squabbles
>> and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" etc. instead of channelling our
>> energies towards endeavours that can improve our lot both in Babylon
>> and back home. Why we ....
>> Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be
>> disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost?
>> Buharry.
>
>These are very important questions to ask and I thank you for your=20
>courage in bringing this topic. =20
>
>Peace
>Momodou Camara
>
>
>*******************************************************
> http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
>
>**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
> possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:01:36 EST
From: Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome
Message-ID: <c7bb401.348fba02@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
The points you mentioned are very convincing, but most of the Ph.D. syndrome
you talked about is or in most cases being used to justify some of our own
failures in life. Not to say you belived in it. Don't you see how such honors
have been translated? Yes there are a few rotten ones around, but please
brother man; tell those people you worked with that the crab is too weak to
crawls and too slow to drag you down (think positive). With the Gambia
situation, change was due, but military change was not the solution. Military
change brings about nothing, but "reporting on each other, ill-wishing each
other, the eagerness for one another's misfortune within families,
neighborhoods, etc" (you). Things might seem to look good for now, but how
would you feel when the military could at any time take over just because they
have weapons ( this fear is why military takeovers should not be encouraged at
all). The purpose of the ballot is to enable us to speak and change when
necessary. The military likewise is to defend the interest of the country. You
can say that's what the military just did, but where do we draw the line, and
when will we as a democratic country (hopefully we are one) tell the military
to respect our decisions (THE PPP PARTY WAS A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED
GOVERNMENT BY THE PEOPLE OF THE GAMBIA). Are you saying that we are too weak
to say, or do the same thing (change wise) the military did in a forceful way?
More power to Jammeh and his people, but I hope that someday, somewhere;
somebody will let the peoples' voice stand (the ballot). Democracy lets you
vote bad governments out of office, and the bullet (military take over in most
cases) just brings endless humiliation and abuse of power. Let the military
governments in Africa speak for themselves. Watch out for all those so called
now foreign friends we have at home.
This is a bantaba discussion and nothing against the Jammeh regime.
NB: hopefully this is the beginning of a very GENTLE DISCUSSION.
M.B.Krubally.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 11:34:16 EST
From: Mamadi Corra <MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU>
To: Gambia-l <GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: Wolof Expressions Request
Message-ID: <199712111653.IAA04889@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Hello Folks:
An African American friend that I recently met is going on a trip t
o Senegal to the Gorreh Islands next week. He requested that I write some Wolo
f expressions (basic) that might be helpful to know (such as basic greetings, e
tc.) and english translations for them. I am in the process of doing this. Ho
wever, I thought perhaps some on this list might have some more expressions to
supliment what I am writting. If anyone has some Wolof expressions translated
and is willing to help in this regard by e-mailling them to me I should appreci
ate it (if e-mailable). I know some on this list have been involved in somethi
ng like this before and many would certainly do a better job in it than I would
as to translation in english. The guy is very enthusiastic about this trip
and anyone that can help in this regard will be appreciated (particularly Wolof
with the Senegalese twist to it: preferably but any would be highly appreciat
ed). You can e-mail me directly at: Mkcorra@vm.sc.edu; thanks all!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:32:09 -0600
From: Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>,
gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Wolof Expressions Request
Message-ID: <199712111732.JAA03537@mx4.u.washington.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD0628.857F8FB0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD0628.857F8FB0
Content-Type: text/plain
I would also be interested in receiving any translations that have been
created. You may email them to me directly at kcash@rbvdnr.com. Thanks
in advance.
> ----------
> From: Mamadi Corra[SMTP:MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU]
> Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:34 AM
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: Wolof Expressions Request
>
> Hello Folks:
> An African American friend that I recently met is going on
> a trip to Senegal to the Gorreh Islands next week. He requested that
> I write some Wolof expressions (basic) that might be helpful to know
> (such as basic greetings, etc.) and english translations for them. I
> am in the process of doing this. However, I thought perhaps some on
> this list might have some more expressions to supliment what I am
> writting. If anyone has some Wolof expressions translated and is
> willing to help in this regard by e-mailling them to me I should
> appreciate it (if e-mailable). I know some on this list have been
> involved in something like this before and many would certainly do a
> better job in it than I would as to translation in english. The guy
> is very enthusiastic about this trip and anyone that can help in this
> regard will be appreciated (particularly Wolof with the Senegalese
> twist to it: preferably but any would be highly appreciated). You
> can e-mail me directly at: Mkcorra@vm.sc.edu; thanks all!
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:54:08 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature?
Message-ID: <3490A750.209F@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sidibeh!
I am aware of the fact that you are the General Secretary of the
OGIS. Please accept my apology if you feel that I have been unfair to
the OGIS. The part about Stockholm is not a negation of your efforts but
a reflection of the difficulty in organising ourselves here, the
negativity and the bickering that goes on amongst us. I am aware of the
sacrifices one has to make for the organisation. I was convinced by Papa
Jeng when he was elected the organisation=B4s president to be on the
Interim Financial Committee together with Reese, Dembo Ceesay, Alieu
Maculey etc. to go through the organisation=B4s papers to get things in
order before he took over. Our report should be in the organisation=B4s
papers. This was just before I went to England to study. Since I came
back, I have been trying to get my dissertation going coupled with work.
This plus the fact that one hardly hears about the organisation. It was
only a few days ago that I was filled in as to the organisation=B4s plans=
etc. and I volunteered to help out in a forthcoming project.
I am aware of the meeting you are talking about. (BTW, Alieu Macauley
wants you to contact him. He needs some papers related to the meeting. I
was supposed to send you an e-mail to this effect some 3 days ago but it
slipped my mind) Have a good weekend. Thanks.
Buharry.
P.S.
Thanks Moe, Yaikah, Sailey and others for the encouraging words.
D.S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Momodou S Sidibeh wrote:
> =
> Buharry,
> For your information, I am current general secretary of the Organizatio=
n of
> Gambians in Stockholm. While I fully agree that the questions you raise=
d
> are probably one of the most important, your criticism of the OGIS I th=
ink
> is unfair. Even unfairer is the comparison with either the Ugandans or =
the
> Eritreans.
> I shall shortly inform this forum about a meeting to be held here
> (Stockholm) soon. But until I first inform the paying members (of which=
you
> are not one - unfortunately), I must beg everyone else to wait.
> Nevertheless I shall be more than willing to contribute to this discuss=
ion
> and even answer any questions whatsoever, such as may eventually be rai=
sed
> - as long as I am able to obtain time to do so.
> =
> Cheers,
> Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
> =
> ----------
> >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:22:42 -0500 (EST)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Re: introduction
Message-ID: <199712112122.QAA09033@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
Welcome to the List Saikou.
Malanding
another BaddibungKo and a Jaiteh
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Dec 3 22:48:15 1997
> Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:47:33 -0800
> From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: introduction
> MIME-version: 1.0
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
> Thanks for adding me to the list.
>
> I am Saikou Njai. I was born in Farafenni. I went to Farafenni Primary
> and Muslim High school respectively. I sat to the O'Level in 1981.
> Attended Telecommunications Training center in 1981. Worked with the
> department of Water Resources from 1982 to 1989. 1989 to present working
> with soil and water management unit, department of agric.
> I got my B.Sc. at Eastern Kentucky University in 1994. I am now studying
> for Master of Engineering Management( MEM ) at the University of
> Canterbury, New Zealand.
> I am here with my wife, Oumi Jaiteh, from Kartong.
>
> I would love to hear from my former school mates or co-workers.
>
> sincerely
>
> Saikou B M Njai
>
> Dept. of Civil Engineering
> University of Canterbury
> PMB 4800, Christchurch
> N Z
>
> Email- sbn13@CAD.Canterbury.ac.nz
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:20:13 -0500
From: habib <hghanim@erols.com>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: gampatriots@corp.sun.com
Subject: Babading Sissoho
Message-ID: <3490671D.5E13@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that Mr
Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm
welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The
Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related
projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and
confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise .
The more the investment money, the better for us.
He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial
help.
Habib Ghanim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:46:03 PST
From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho
Message-ID: <19971212074603.8430.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>
>Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that
Mr
>Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm
>welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The
>Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related
>projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and
>confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise .
>The more the investment money, the better for us.
>He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial
>help.
>
>Habib Ghanim
>
It is stated in one of the FOROYAA issues recently that Mr. Sissoho ows
four million dalasis to the Gambia including the Civil Aviation.
Momodou Camara
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:27:48 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Dr. Nyang's response on slavery
Message-ID: <9712121527.AA25044@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dr. Nyang,
Some very interesting points indeed!
Thank you for responding to my enquiry about slavery in Africa. As always,
it is very refreshing to note your familiarity with the history of ancient
and modern Africa. I thank you kindly for taking the time to propagate
African history (from the ancient times to the present) through our minds.
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
==========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:31:39 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Subcription
Message-ID: <9712121631.AA44460@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Sarian wrote:
> All,
>
> Kumba Secka & Fatoumata Taal have been added to the list. Welcome aboard ladies
> and please send in your intros to gambia-l@u.washington.edu.
Welcome to Gambia-L ladies. Hope you gain a fruitful experience while you
are members.
Good luck!
Brother Moe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:26:49 -0500
From: habib <hghanim@erols.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho
Message-ID: <3491C839.503B@erols.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Momodou Camara wrote:
>
> >
> >Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that
> Mr
> >Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm
> >welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The
> >Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related
> >projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and
> >confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise .
> >The more the investment money, the better for us.
> >He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial
> >help.
> >
> >Habib Ghanim
> >
>
> It is stated in one of the FOROYAA issues recently that Mr. Sissoho ows
> four million dalasis to the Gambia including the Civil Aviation.
>
> Momodou Camara
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Holly Cow!!!
What is going on ??
Momodou Camara if this is true then all this is just a big show.
But if his bill is normally that high then it could only be fair to
access it based on when he usually pays his bills(annually or monthly.)
Hopefully he does, otherwise it is a different story.
Some companies have big payables and receivables, so for the benefit of
the doubt, let's first find out before we pass jugdment.
Habib
--
MZ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:53:31 -0500
From: "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: "gambia-l@u.washington.edu" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)]
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:16:56 -0500
To: paomar@iglou.com
From: "Etta W. Boss-Cole" <ewboss0@pop.uky.edu>
Subject: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)
--============_-1330503071==_============
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>Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 13:45:35 -0600
>From: "Olivia I Thomas"<othomas@allina.com>
>To: <ewboss0@pop.uky.edu>, <othomas@talent_sws.com>, <sali@talent_sws.com>,
> <thomam02@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu>,
> <jeff_w_weeks_at_ccpo2802@smtpgate.allina.com>,
> <brad_d_myrvold_at_ccpo2802@smtpgate.allina.com>
>Subject: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>
>
>
>
>
--============_-1330503071==_============
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>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:52:59 -0600 (CST)
>From: Gams <gammell@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
>To: Gams <gammell@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu>
>Subject: Bill Gates:Free Money
>
>
>> > Hello everybody,
>> > My name is Bill Gates. I have just written up an e-mail tracing
>> program
>> > that traces everyone to whom this message is forwarded to. I am
>> > experimenting with this and I need your help. Forward this to
>> everyone
>> > you know and if it reaches 1000 people everyone on the list will
>> receive
>> > $1000 at my expense. Enjoy.
>> > Your friend,
>> > Bill Gates
>> > --Boundary (ID HTRXijdMVBrw21Hvpkl89w)--
>
--============_-1330503071==_============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
***************************************************
Etta W. Boss-Cole "Everyone should have a dream."
University of Kentucky - Jesse Owens
College of Medicine
Lexington, KY 40536
ewboss0@pop.uky.edu
***************************************************
--============_-1330503071==_============--
--------------1A361BBC3D6E6D9A3977E16D--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:23:59 -0500 (EST)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho
Message-ID: <9712130524.AA21836@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Habib, you wrote:
> Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that Mr
> Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm
> welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The
> Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related
> projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and
> confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise .
> The more the investment money, the better for us.
> He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial
> help.
>
> Habib Ghanim
This Sissoho guy seems pretty amusing. I mean, not only is he a
millionaire (in US dollars), he is also a humanist as shown by his actions
(as in the Florida donation). I even remember reading articles about his
influence on some US senators who were amazed as to how he amassed his
fortune. Man, he must be rich if he can impress the US that much by
throwing dollars around as if it were nobody's business. If he is a true
businessman, I wonder if he tried to convince Bill Gates that business in
Africa is not too bad :-))). But who really is this man, and what is his
connection with the Gambia (or should I say President Jammeh?)? How did he
become qualified to be a dual citizen of both Gambia and Mali? Better yet,
how did he obtain diplomatic status for the representation of the Gambia?
I would really like to read millionaire Sissoho's biographical information
if it is obtainable. Certainly, any millionaire would have some
information written about him or her. Does anyone have such information
on Mr. Sossoho they wish to share?
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
=========================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS
Brother Habib, please update me on the "Let's do it" project.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:51:04 -0800
From: lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu>
To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu
Subject: introduction
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:18:02 -0800
From: lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu>
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Hi,
My name is Lamin Jaiteh(Tenn Boi) from Kartong. I graduated from Saint
Augustine's and Gambia high in '88 and '90 respectively. I then attended
Gamtel Training school from '90 to 92 before coming to Washington State.
I am now study Electrical Engineering at Washington State U. here in
Pullman.
I would love to hear from friends, relatives former classmates
etc.
Tenn.
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:02:11 -0800
From: lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu>
To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu
Subject: introduction
Message-ID: <34927943.46C@mail.wsu.edu>
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Hi,
My name is Lamin Jaiteh (Tenn Boi) from Kartong. I graduated from
Saint Augustine's and Gambia high in '88 and '90 respectively. I attended
Gamtel Training school from '90 to '92 before coming to the U.S. I am now
studying Electrical Engineering at Washington State U. here in Pullman.
I would love to hear from friends,relatives, former classmates
etc.
Tenn.
--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:24:58 -0400 (AST)
From: Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Christmas Greetings
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.971213121823.203832C-100000@is2.dal.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hello Friends,
I am sending my warmest Christmas greetings to all in the Bantaba, praying
for your long life, good health and prosperity. May Allah make you see
through and continue your good work in 1998 and beyond.May Allah keep us
away from the dangers of tribalism.
Thanks
Fafa Sanyang
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:25:53 -0800
From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: John =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bojang=B4s?= Meeting With The Gambian Community In
Stockholm
Message-ID: <349351C1.875@swipnet.se>
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Hi!
Momodou Sidibeh who currently because of technical difficulties
cannot access Gambia-l asked me to relay the following information. It
is about the Gambia=B4s High Commissioner to the United Kingdom=B4s visit=
to
Stockholm. Commissioner John Bojang will hold a meeting with the Gambian
community in Stockholm.
DATE: Thursday, 18th. December 1997
PLACE: Brygghuset, Samlingshall 36, Norrtullsgatan 12, Odenplan
TIME: 17.30 - 20.30
All who can attend are encouraged to do so. Please spread the word.
Thanks.
Buharry.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:07:01 EST
From: ABA LM <ABALM@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: introduction
Message-ID: <1acfd688.3492dcd8@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Hi tenn,
I am one of your former classmate.
My name is Abba Sanneh.
Welcome to gambia-l.
I hope to hear from you sometime.
Abba
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:16:15 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <19971213201641.AAA12324@momodou>
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Greetings,
Mr. Baboucar Sallah has been added to the Bantaba. Welcome to
Gambia-l, we look forward to your contributions.
You can send a brief introduction to the list. Our address is
gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:56:36 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: The case of Babanding Fatty - Compensation after seven years
Message-ID: <19971213215703.AAA10904@momodou>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Babanding Fatty, a Gambian who had been maltreated in a Danish prison
will now finally get a large sum as compensation.
Most Gambians living in Scandinavia must have remembered the
documentary about this case shown on the Danish, Norwegian and
Swedish TV stations.
According to a Danish daily Aktuelt of friday 12th December 1997,
both Babanding Fatty's lawyer and the Justice Ministry anticipate
concluding the seven year old case by next week.
After more than seven years tug-of -war it seems likely that
the case of Mr.Fatty will come to an end. The case will probably end
with Babanding receiving a six-figure number as the
compensation for the lasting injury and lost of ability to work.
The lawyer had informed the newspaper that he had a meeting with the
Justice Ministry last thursday and there seems to be an amicable
settlement. Now that all the loose ends seems to be in place.
The lawyer demanded One million kroners (about 1.55 million dalasis)
for his Gambian client. He is now ready to reduce the amount inorder
to conclude the case. He has got permission from Mr. Fatty to cut
the demand down inorder to finish the case.
Babanding Fatty came to Denmark on the 19th October 1990 as a peaceful
tourist who should visit a relative. Instead, he was arrested at
Kastrup Airport because of a misunderstanding about his money
(according to the police). A mistake which the police admitted later.
He had 30.000 Senegalese francs which according to the police was not
sufficient for his stay in Denmark.
Babanding's nightmare began when he was taken to the Copenhagen
police prison after ten hours of his detention at the airport, where
he was beaten up by the prison personnel. He only spoke Wollof and
Mandinka and there was no translator for him to know what he has done
wrong and why he was there. He was beaten more than 20 times with a
lead filled cudgel in the regions of his kidneys and on his vertebral
column. His face was many times covered with a blanket so that he
could not see those beating him. He was several times seen by the
prison doctor who wrote in the case sheet that "The patient is in an
agony of fear, desperate and in crises. Suicidal danger cannot be
ruled out". It was sixteen hours after his arrival in Denmark that
he got the chance to communicate through a translator because he only
spoke Mandinka and Wollof. He was later released and left Denmark on
the 9. November 1990 as a very depressed man.
The case had been taken to the Parliament's Ombudsman which resulted
in a 233 page report by a magistrate in march 1992. The case had
placed Denmark for the first time in the report of Amnesty
International and in 1993 there was an official apology by
the then Justice Minister Erling Olsen to Babanding Fatty.
A few months later a court in Copenhagen ruled that Babanding
should get a compensation of sixty thousand kroners.
Later at a meeting in June 1995 between the Lawyer Lars
Dinesen and the Justice Ministry, it was agreed that Babanding should
get the above amount of sixty thousand danish kroners (about 93.000
Dalasis) payment on account.
The case had lasted a long time now and both parties had waited for a
new medical report from both The Gambia and Denmark.
Lately, the Danish Doctors Union refused to make a new medical
examination of Babanding seven years after the incident. They have
instead recommended that the case be concluded now.
"I take this recommendation from the Doctors Union as a
suggestion to end these exhausting medical examinations" says the
lawyer. and continues:
"We should accept the fact that we cannot get a concluding medical
examination with the help of Danish doctors about Babanding's physical
and psychical condition".
Since the dramatic episode in October 1997, Babanding who is now 36
years old is unable to work and still has severe depressions.
Sources in the Justice Ministry confirmed that the case will
probably be concluded next week with a large amount of compensation
to Babanding Fatty.
Source: Aktuelt
Friday December 12. 1997
______________________________________________________
PS: English is not my daily language of communication.
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:35:40 -0600 (CST)
From: Paul Jammeh <st2063@student-mail.jsu.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: introduction
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971213162331.9148A-100000@student-mail.jsu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Hey Ten Boy,
I want to take this opportunity to welcome you aboard The Gambian Bantaba.
I have been looking for a way of communicating with you for the longest of
times, but to no avail. I will personally write you a private e-mail when
exams are over.
Until then, enjoy the burning issues of the bantaba and send in your
attractive contributions. Have a good day :0)
Peace,
Paul Jammeh (Darsilami)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:06:47 +1200
From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: introduction
Message-ID: <8F24D66491@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
Hi Lamin,
I am not sure wether you know me or not but you are a relative of my
wife. My wife is Oumi Taye Jaiteh from Kartong. She is presently
living with me in New Zealand.
I am studying for Master of Engineering Management at the University
of Canterbury. Are you intouch with Bangura?
I wish you success in your studies.
Keep in touch.
Yours
Saikou BM Njai
Dept of Civil Engineering
University of Canterbury
PMB 4800 Christchurch, NZ
Saikou B M Njai
Postgraduate Student Room E311
Department of Civil Engineering
University of Canterbury
P M B 4800
Christchurch,N Z
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:47:00 -0500
From: Astrid Christensen-Tasong via the Virtual Florist <attatas@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Virtual Flower Bouquet Delivery
Message-ID: <199712140247.VAA20016@www18.hway.net>
Gambia List,
This message is to inform you that Astrid Christensen-Tasong has created a
Virtual Flower Bouquet(tm) for you at the Virtual Florist(sm) web site.
Your Virtual Flower Bouquet can be viewed anytime during the next
two weeks by connecting your World Wide Web browser to the following
URL:
http://www.virtualflorist.com/pickup?MER8842
If you have difficulty getting to this URL, or do not have access
to a web browser, then send an e-mail to "help@virtualflorist.com"
and our mail system will send an automated reply with a more detailed
set of instructions.
Enjoy your flowers!
The Virtual Florist
____________________________________________________________________
Please send any replies to: attatas@hotmail.com
The originator of this item was logged into IP Address 166.55.78.2
at 21:47 EST.
____________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:04:23 +1200
From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome
Message-ID: <901B1724F9@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
I wish to thank all the brothers for their comments and
observations on this topic. However, We must realise that democracy
or a just society does not come easy. We often make the mistake of
comparing africa with Europe and the USA. Those countries started a
long way from where they are now. Democracy does not mean election
only. A lot of elected governments in Africa are more terrible than
military governments.
I think what Africa needs is awareness. But, alas most of us who are
aware decide to live away. We are not willing to sacrifice our lives
and / or comfort to change what is happenning. If the competent ones
run way from the job; someone else will have to take charge.
History teaches us that Democracy and justice can only come through
sacrifice of some people. The point is not wether a government is
elected or not but wether or not it is runnig in the interest of the
people.
Saikou B M Njai
Postgraduate Student Room E311
Department of Civil Engineering
University of Canterbury
P M B 4800
Christchurch,N Z
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:18:42 -0800
From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject:
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_John_Bojang=B4s_Meeting_With_The_Gambian_?=
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971213221842.00689f5c@mail.interlog.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi! Mr. Buharry,
I wish I could attend that meeting. John was one of my best teachers at
St. Edwards Secondary School (Bwiam). May they have a happy and successful
meeting.
Bakary Paul Gibba.
At 07:25 PM 12/13/97 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi!
> Momodou Sidibeh who currently because of technical difficulties
>cannot access Gambia-l asked me to relay the following information. It
>is about the Gambia=B4s High Commissioner to the United Kingdom=B4s visit=
to
>Stockholm. Commissioner John Bojang will hold a meeting with the Gambian
>community in Stockholm.
>
>DATE: Thursday, 18th. December 1997
>PLACE: Brygghuset, Samlingshall 36, Norrtullsgatan 12, Odenplan
>TIME: 17.30 - 20.30
>
>All who can attend are encouraged to do so. Please spread the word.
>Thanks.
> Buharry.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:19:35 -0500
From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Article published in the Observer in 1995. Written BY Michael
B.B.J. Gomez
Message-ID: <19971213.231937.4038.0.nahak@juno.com>
Please enjoy and have fun.
July 30, 1995
PREPARING THE GAMBIA FOR THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY
Elections, alone, do not constitute democracy. We Gambians
must be prepared
and educate one another on elections and what democracy is all about.
Are we believers
of religion in The Gambia, or nonbelievers? If we are true believers of
God, whether
following Prophet Mohammed, Jesus Christ, Baha'i la or any other
religion, we must
realize we have to practice honesty, dedication and self-responsibility.
"For a good tree
bringth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth
good fruit. For
every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather
figs, nor of a
bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of
his heart
bringth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil
treasure of his heart
bringth forth that which is evil: for the abundance of the heart his
mouth speakest." (St.
Luke, Chapter 6, verses 43-45, the Holy Bible) "Muhammad is the Apostle
of Allah, and
those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers and
compassionate among
themselves. Like a seed that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it,
so it becomes stout
and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage
the unbelievers
on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and
do good,
forgiveness and a great reward." (Surah XLIX, Hujurat, verse 29, the Holy
Qur'an)
"Beware lest the desires of the flesh and of a corrupt inclination
provoke divisions among
you. Be ye as the fingers of one hand, the members of one body. Thus
counseleth you
the Pen of Revelation, if ye be of them that believe." (Verse 58, the
Kitab-I-Aqdas, the
Holy Book)
To have a true democratic society, the Gambian government,
institutions,
intellectuals, and ordinary people must perform a thorough
self-evaluation. We must
evaluate our attitudes. We must evaluate our worksites, whether they are
in the private or
public sector or in a traditional setting. It is only through this
self-evaluation can we
discover our strengths and weaknesses and then, be able to come up with a
strategy to
turn our weaknesses into strengths and come up with policies that have
practical
implementations which can sustain and develop The Gambia.
We need to ask ourselves this question, "Why did the military
take over our
country?" If we were true believers of God, there would be no need for
the military to
take over our country. If we had true democracy, we wouldn't be faced
with the changes
we have now in The Gambia. How long will it take for Gambian to realize
the future of
our nation is in our hands, not outsiders? I am challenging myself as
well as challenging
Gambians at home, abroad and the military government to launch a civil
education
campaign as soon as possible before the elections. It is only when we
give educational
awareness to the people will they become empowered; aware of their
potential and able
to use it in a positive way. This is what The Gambia needs. If our
intellectuals are not
selfish, they should be willing to share their knowledge and experience
with the Gambian
people and not become dictators and monopolize the Gambian resources and
people.
The Gambia has a population of about one million people. It
doesn't take a
genius to develop and sustain The Gambia. It takes people who really
love their country;
who care and are concerned about their country; people who have vision;
people who
look for long-term development; people who value "We" more than "I".
Individualism
will not take us anywhere. What was happening in The Gambia has not
changed, in the
sense that we have not had civil education, in which people learn to know
their rights,
their responsibilities and what kind of public policies they should be
looking for. Unless
this happens, The Gambia will remain the same or become worse than it was
under
Jawara's regime.
In The Gambia, whether government or non-government
organizations, all
traveling is done by senior managers. This is a control mechanism that
allows
dictatorship and monopoly. God forbid what should happen if those
government officials
should pass away! All the knowledge, experience and skills would
disappear and the
development of the country would become stagnant. We must be willing to
share
knowledge, to share experience, be willing to support and empower those
less
unfortunate and less educated than ourselves. We must share the
knowledge and
experience we have and work together to develop and sustain our country.
Unless these
attitudes change, The Gambia will remain far away from being a democratic
society.
What happens to our young graduates when they return back to
Gambia? They
get sucked into the system because the system never has self-evaluation.
They become
caught up in the oppressive system we had before. Unless this changes,
we will not be
able to eliminate poverty in The Gambia. Our attitudes towards the
system we have in
The Gambia must change drastically without waste of time. Our social
scientist have
failed The Gambia. Our economists have failed the country. They advised
the
government on public policy and became administrators which they are not
trained for.
Our intellectuals spend more time in government offices attending
meetings rather than
putting practical things into a daily routine of managing an office.
Gambian economists should be working very hard to manage scarce
resources.
If we are to manage scarce resources in The Gambia, we shouldn't advise
our government
to import goods into our country. An example is rice. We have a
tremendous amount of
good land and the river is sweet water. The Gambia should not depend on
imported rice.
It is a shame and a disaster, to us, as Gambian intellectuals, citizens
and leaders. Why
can't we encourage our economists to go to the fields and work with
traditional people in
the rural areas and do research and recommend positive changes? Look at
the resources
we have in this county! We need to manage those resources and develop
products by
working together with engineers and agriculturists so that what we
produce will help us
become self-sustainable.
If we Gambians are intelligent, we should be asking ourselves
this question,
"What about the rice that we buy from Taiwan, or Japan or China and the
materials we
get from London or France or Unites States, if they say, 'No, we will no
longer sell you
these things', what are we going to do, sit there and cry; or start
killing each other?" This
tells me that we do not practice intelligence, but ignorance, and are
devaluing our
capabilities as Gambians and Africans. We need to prepare The Gambia for
the twenty-
first century and sustainable development.
Our middle schools, secondary or high schools need to offer
practical experience.
Students should be required to do field placements where they are
attached to
government schools, institutions, agencies or companies to do practical
work in the field
they are interested in. This will give them experience so that when they
graduate, they
will be able to apply theories to improve the real world. This is not
happening, but
should be, in order to make the younger generation more responsible; so
they can feel
proud of their skills and talents and feel prepared, at any time, to
apply them.
What should our new democratically elected government look like?
Our
government must be prepared to decentralize the ministries. We cannot
develop The
Gambia when all the ministries are stationed in Banjul and Kombo Saint
Mary. A
committed government will assign at least one ministry to each division
so that ministers
will work with the local people and see what they are faced with every
day. When this
happens, the ministers will see the true reality of The Gambia. The new
president of The
Gambia should choose ministers for his or her cabinet regardless of
political party, ethnic
or religious group and gender. We need ministers who can come up with
strategies and
solutions to the problems the people of Gambia have.
How can the government say it is working for the good of ALL
Gambia when all
of the ministries are in Banjul. It does not work that way! We will not
become self-
sustainable in this way. Government officials need to live and work
where
the majority of Gambians live and work. I think we have a long way to go
in order to
have a democratic society. Decentralizing the government will help us to
get a better
look at the resources we have available in our country. We need to
appreciate the human
beings who live here and learn from their skills. We need to be willing
to work with
them in order to solve the problems of The Gambia. Why is the ministry
of agriculture
located in the urban area when The Gambia is mostly an agricultural
country? Why is
the Ministry of Works and Communication in Banjul? We have poor
communication
throughout The Gambia. The roads are very bad in the rural areas of the
country. If there
is a disaster it will be difficult to travel and render assistance to
those who need it. We
have poor water sanitation, telephone communication, electricity and
empty health
centers. Human beings cannot work hard when their social and health
conditions are not
taken care of. We must be healthy in order to work and sustain the
country. We need to
stay near the people in the rural areas to understand their problems and
work with them
to create and develop a better Gambia. We must design a public policy
that will address
our needs and alleviate poverty in The Gambia.
Before elections are held in The Gambia, every candidate must
present his/her
public policy to The Gambian people. The public policy must be
translated in local
languages that the people understand. All public policies must be
sensitive to Gambian
culture. Also, policies must be realistic as well as having practical
achievable goals and
objectives within a given time frame. Candidates should be able to
design a public
policy that empowers and unites Gambians and not one that divides,
discriminates
against, oppresses or suppresses us.
All public policies should address and answer the following
questions: Who?
Why? Which? What? When? Where? and How? What resources will be used to
implement public policies and what are the advantages and disadvantages?
Why is one
policy better than another? How will this policy develop and sustain the
Gambia? How
will it maintain democracy in The Gambia, reduce corruption and create
empowerment
among Gambian people? Candidates should teach people how to develop
Gambian
products for marketing within the country and to other countries, then,
we will not have
to depend on imports. Importing is a disaster because it drains our
economy. It does not
take an economist to know that depending on imports is bad and does not
allow a country
to become self-sustaining! We must face the truth. We must face
reality. We must
confront those who give wrong advice to our government. Let us become
true Gambians,
true Africans, who are educated to work together for the betterment of
our nation.
What is happening to the Gambian economy right now? People are
crying that it
is slow simply because there is a low tourist turnout this year. Why do
we depend on
tourism in The Gambia? We shouldn't! We have resources that we can use
to boost our
economy. We must change our attitudes and no longer depend on the
Western world.
We must learn to depend on our people's skills and their use of our
resources. We need
to develop Gambian products that we can market to the West and other
neighboring
African countries so that when a disaster happens, we will not fold our
hands and wait to
be fed by outsiders. If we do that, we will remain a colonized nation.
Our pubic policy
will continue to be dictated and controlled by the West.
We Gambians must set an example for the rest of Africa to follow
and become
self-starters. We must not be afraid of failure. We need to be open and
welcome
constructive criticism and be willing to face challenges. We need to
welcome risks in
order to become self-sustainable. This is what The Gambia needs in order
to prepare for
the twenty-first century. Failure to do so will require the future
generation to pay a high
price for survival. This will be frustrating for them and will create
violence in our
Gambian society. Are we prepared to face an oppressive and violent
Gambian society in
the future? I say: "NO!" The Gambia is too young, as a nation, to allow
this to happen to
her. We must open our eyes, our minds and tap everyone's positive energy
and valuable
skills in order to work together to create a better future society for
the Gambian nation.
I challenge the present Gambian government and Gambian
ambassadors to
network with Gambians, around the world, and work together to come up
with Gambian
public policies and ideas that are valuable to implement, in Gambia;
programs and
projects which alleviate poverty and bring social justice by creating
more opportunity for
employment equality through developing Gambian products. I challenge
them to launch
a campaign to encourage self-awareness, self-understanding, environmental
concern, and
caring about Gambian development.
This message is from a true Gambian, born and raised in Bakalar
Village, of the
North Bank division. Long Live The African Voice! Long Live True
Gambians! Long
Live Justice in The Gambia! PEACE PEACE PEACE
By Michael B.B.J. Gomez
Ph.D. candidate at Boston University
Founder of the African Student Association at Boston University
Founder of the Gambian Association of Massachusetts
Member of the Committee on the Future Direction of American Politics
and Public Policy at Harvard University.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:01:00 EST
From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Intorduction
Message-ID: <57ce00e7.3493761f@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hello everyone
Again my name is Baboucar Sallah and am currently studying computer
Imformation systems and analysis at the university of south Florida in Tampa.I
am looking forward to sharing my views about Gambia with all of you.
yours
Baboucar
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:31:29 EST
From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century
Message-ID: <6a1280ee.34937d43@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I am very disappointed to hear that our University has a copy cat to a
university in Canada. I have a big problem with that because this is the first
thing that leaves us were we are at this moment. I believe that the gambian
education system should be administered according to our cultural,economical
and social settings and standards.I am tired of reading a book and fully
understand what it means and how to apply it to my daily ways.You guys tell me
?Were you not tired of learning fabricated history lessons and mark &
jean.spill it out for the better and independence we are craving for.
Yours
Baboucar Sallah
Lamtoro@aol.com
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End of GAMBIA-L Digest 98
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gambia-l: LOG9712C - Digest 98
