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gambia-l: LOG9712D - Digest 99

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Momodou	Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 16:04:03 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: The case of Babanding Fatty - Compensation after seven years by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 2) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century by "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net> 3) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 4) University Of The Gambia by SANG1220 <SANG1220@aol.com> 5) Re: Is It Our Nature? The Crab Ph.D Syndrome by f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) 6) Introduction by f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) 7) Re: introduction by ADEMBA <ADEMBA@aol.com> 8) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century by ADEMBA <ADEMBA@aol.com> 9) Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature? (fwd) by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> 10) Dual Citizenship by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 11) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 12) Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature? (fwd) by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 13) Is it in our nature? by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 14) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 15) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> 16) Re: University Of The Gambia by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> 17) Unsubscribe by "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk> 18) RE: SOCCER/FOOTBALL by Olafiaklinikken Olafia <olafia@online.no> 19) Re: Babading Sissoho by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 20) Re: Gambia Educational Support Plan -final call for comments by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> 21) Re: Is it in our nature? by BAKSAWA <BAKSAWA@aol.com> 22) Re: Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang by Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> 23) Re: Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> 24) SV: Babading Sissoho by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> 25) Senegal by Mamadi Corra <MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU> 26) RE: Is it in our nature? by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> 27) Re: Is It Our Nature? re: Democratic change by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 28) New Member by Raye Sosseh <gt8065b@prism.gatech.edu> 29) New member by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 30) Need info by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 31) Re: Need info by Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> 32) Re: Need info by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 33) RE: Is it in our nature? (fwd) by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> 34) Re: forwarded posting from Dr. Nyang by Nyang Njie <st0021@student-mail.jsu.edu> 35) Re: Need info by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 36) Re: Is it in our nature? by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 37) Racial Discrimination (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 38) RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> 39) Re: Senegal by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 40) Re. Racial Discrimination (fwd) by f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) 41) RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> 42) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by Bala S Jallow <bala@algonet.se> 43) Re: introduction by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> 44) RE: Is it in our nature? (fwd) -Reply by Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> 45) Re: Is it in our nature? by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 46) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 47) RE: Is it in our nature? by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 48) RE: Is it in our nature? (fwd) by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 49) Wife Beating by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 50) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> 51) New Member by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara) 52) Introduction by "janko.fofana@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 53) Re: introduction by "janko.fofana@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 54) SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> 55) Re: please remove by rdinvest@highway1.com 56) Re: Introduction by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 57) RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> 58) A CHRISTMAS POEM by Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> 59) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 60) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 61) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 62) Re: Introduction by BAKSAWA <BAKSAWA@aol.com> 63) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> 64) Re: introduction by "RASTAFARI IS HIS NAME...JAH..GIVE THANKS & PRAISES" <ABARROW@rr5.rr.intel.com> 65) Christmas Eve Jam by MJawara <MJawara@aol.com> 66) unlist by "Babou Njie" <babounjie@hotmail.com> 67) Gambia Educational Support Plan-final call for comments by "Housainou Taal"<Housainou.Taal@wfp.org> 68) Unsubscribe by "RASTAFARI IS HIS NAME...JAH..GIVE THANKS & PRAISES" <ABARROW@rr5.rr.intel.com> 69) Re:christmas Holidays by Fatou Khan <mec97a14@tron.lyngbyes.dk> 70) Re: Racial Discriminatiion (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 71) The Intellectual Prostitutes (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 72) Poem: The Cold Within by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> 73) FW: story for the day by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> 74) Re: Gambia Educational Support Plan-final call for comments by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 75) Wow moe.... (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 76) Re:christmas Holidays by Bennie Robinson <BROBINSON@gwmail.kysu.edu> 77) Tribute to Kekoto Maane by "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net> 78) Re: Wow moe.... (fwd) by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> 79) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by BobbySil <BobbySil@aol.com> 80) The Nigeria I hate (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 81) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 82) humor: Ever been a waiter or waited on? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 83) Question... by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 84) Help needed! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 85) Re: Tribute to Kekoto Maane by Abdou O Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no> 86) Re: Help needed! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 87) SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> 88) SV: Help needed! by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> 89) Re: Help needed! by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 90) Request by f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) 91) Re: SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> 92) Re: The Nigeria I hate (fwd) by "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 93) Re: Help needed! by M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> 94) unlist by "L.A.E. WRIGHT" <eco7laew@lucs-02.novell.leeds.ac.uk> 95) Re: NINETEEN STUDENTS FROM BANJUL ACADEMY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR by CAMARA BAKEBBA <cb714@greenwich.ac.uk> 96) Re: unlist by Bennie Robinson <BROBINSON@gwmail.kysu.edu> 97) Re: Question... by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) 98) RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> 99) by "Sikkaaka" <ley5mc1@nottingham.ac.uk> 100) Re: NINETEEN STUDENTS FROM BANJUL ACADEMY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) 101) Farafenni Hospital by "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 102) THE ONLY SOLUTION! by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> 103) Re: THE ONLY SOLUTION! by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 104) Suspending Gambia-L subscriptions by "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com> 105) Unlist by "Ousainou Demba - EECS (EE214)" <odemba@eecs.wsu.edu> 106) Re: Help needed! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 107) Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 108) Interfaith Relations in Our Own Back Yard (fwd) by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 109) Re: NINETEEN STUDENTS FROM BANJUL ACADEMY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 110) Re: Question... by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 111) Re: THE ONLY SOLUTION! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 112) AMISTAD by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 113) Re: SV: Babading Sissoho by mmjeng@image.dk 114) Banjulians Discover "Oil Wells" At Half Die by mmjeng@image.dk 115) Re: Question... by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) 116) Re: THE ONLY SOLUTION! by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:52:25 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: The case of Babanding Fatty - Compensation after seven years Message-ID: <199712141646.NAA05004@qatar.net.qa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr.Camara! Thanks for the run down and keep up the good work down there! Regards Basss! ---------- > From: Camara, Momodou <momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk>Momodou Camara ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 03:07:25 +0330 From: "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century Message-ID: <19971214165243.AAA24549@kansala.avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit First of all Baboucar did you real sit down to get to the nitty gritty of the university thing you are talking about. I have been in Canada and I've attended meetings about this program and you would be surprised or perhaps happy to know what it entails. Let me break it down to you... and perhaps you'll have a grasp of it. The Nova Scotia Gambia Association is an association headed by Mr Borris Devaney and it comprises mostly of Gambian students based in Nova Scotia.The assocaition originally had students from St Marys University and Other Nova Scotian unversities sent to the Gambia during the summer months to do some volunteer teaching. It came up after sometime of this going on that the Gambia could actually have a UEP (university extension program). It was proposed to the Ministry of Education and to help the Gambia they had professors from the various universities to go to the gambia to assist in teaching various courses including history and Mathematics. In fact I remember in one of our meetings in Halifax, a prof who teaches in Dalhousie University mentioned that his students in the Gambia on average did a lot better than their counterparts in Canada. I questioned the type of History taught and I was told that it was just the kiind you'd find in any university...I am not too sure about this. In conclusion the UEP will eventually become a fully established university and hopefully all associations of other universities will dorp even though they will be kept in mind since they helped in the mission accomplishment. Lang Jr. ---------- > From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century > Date: 14 December 1997 10:01 > > I am very disappointed to hear that our University has a copy cat to a > university in Canada. I have a big problem with that because this is the first > thing that leaves us were we are at this moment. I believe that the gambian > education system should be administered according to our cultural,economical > and social settings and standards.I am tired of reading a book and fully > understand what it means and how to apply it to my daily ways.You guys tell me > ?Were you not tired of learning fabricated history lessons and mark & > jean.spill it out for the better and independence we are craving for. > > Yours > Baboucar Sallah > Lamtoro@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:14:57 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century Message-ID: <199712142308.UAA05823@qatar.net.qa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr.Maane, Thanks for the clarification and keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! > In conclusion the UEP will eventually become a fully established university > and hopefully all associations of other universities will dorp even though > they will be kept in mind since they helped in the mission accomplishment. > Lang Jr. > > > ---------- > > From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> > > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > > Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century > > Date: 14 December 1997 10:01 > > > > I am very disappointed to hear that our University has a copy cat to a > > university in Canada. I have a big problem with that because this is the > first > > thing that leaves us were we are at this moment. I believe that the > gambian > > education system should be administered according to our > cultural,economical > > and social settings and standards.I am tired of reading a book and fully > > understand what it means and how to apply it to my daily ways.You guys > tell me > > ?Were you not tired of learning fabricated history lessons and mark & > > jean.spill it out for the better and independence we are craving for. > > > > Yours > > Baboucar Sallah > > Lamtoro@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:42:23 EST From: SANG1220 <SANG1220@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: SANG1220@aol.com Subject: University Of The Gambia Message-ID: <28bead82.349436a1@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Just a reminder about how a university begins. Mr Sallah in your zeal about gambia university, perhaps you need to take a historical perspective into the establishment of universities in Africa. A few examples here and there, 1st, Foray Bay College, regarded as the oldest university in africa, began as an extension of Durham University in Scotland(Jabou help me out here), and I believe a lot of africans got there education from there most especially Gambians, 2nd Njala University also began as an extension of the University of Chicago. What am trying to say is "Patience Dog Eat Fat Bone" In time Gambia University will come to its own and the history you talked about will be taught correctly or incorrectly it will be up to you the student to grow and develop from there. Remember history is always told/taught with a bias. Thanks Daddy Sang ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:25:13 +0000 From: f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It Our Nature? The Crab Ph.D Syndrome Message-ID: <19971214202511.AAA24661@harrison.0.acs.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mr. M.B. Krubally rightly wrote: "Democracy lets you vote bad government out of office, and the bullet (military take over in most cases) just brings humiliation and abuse of power." These are two of the most dreadful problems that are currently affecting our much loved country, The Gambia. I am ever so thankful to you for coming up with these issues. I find the whole situation very devastating and the government of the day must be held responsible for these problems. People who do not live blameless lives should not find fault with others. I think we all know as to which way the wing blows as far as these problems are concern. We have to accept the fact that the abuse of people's rights is still on the raise, and so too is tribalism. It is unfortunate and indeed very disturbing to learned that these problems are on the raise. We have to live and let live. I am hoping that these problems would receive a modest and respectful discussion in regardless to our political differences. I thank you once again Mr. Krubally for your contribution. Famara Giffa, Columbus, Ohio. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:17:45 +0000 From: f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <19971214211743.AAA26174@harrison.0.acs.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" My fellow Gambians, Please allow me to express my sincere appreciation to the managers for allowing me to take part in this forum. They're doing a splendid job and I hope they all stay well and happy. There couldn't be a better and cost free way of communicating to each other. I am so grateful of you folks please keep it up. This is a belate note of introduction and I apologise for the delay. I am Famara Demba widely known as Giffa. I was born in Fanyungu (Gunjur), kombo south district. I go to school here in Columbus, and my major is Eco-tourism. I shall look forward to hearing from my friends and relatives across the world. In the mean while, I wish each and every human being a peaceful and a very happy season. God bless! Famara Demba, Ohio ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:12:38 EST From: ADEMBA <ADEMBA@aol.com> To: gambia-l@U.Washington.edu Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <4f02bb2a.34944bc9@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Ten, Your name seem familiar. I think you are my nephew who use to stay in Seattle, the Katong rude boy. If that so, please you are welcome to the Bantaba. Seeeee Yoooooooo! Alasana. (UNCLE). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:38:56 EST From: ADEMBA <ADEMBA@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century Message-ID: <6c3fbbb5.349451f7@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It is very simple to figure this out. Althought, it is important to have our own cultural setting of everything regarding to education, but as there is a limited resource to established our own, why not accept the offered. Are you presently going to school in a Gambian cultural setting?, I suppose it is not. So what is the different. Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages. Whatever it is, we have no choice. I believe your are going throught some cultural differences, but you can't help it. Anyway, I am out of time at the moment. Later. Peace. Alasana Demba. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:44:35 -0500 (EST) From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature? (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9712141501.A25218-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII hello everyone, i just wanted to add my few bututes to this topic. I agree that it is in our nature to be disorganised. This is not to say that there're no exceptions to the rule. I guess the main problem is that being disorganised seems to be the rule rather than the exception. And it is not just GAmbians, but black people as a whole, which I think is a pretty bad flaw in our nature ( as Isaid earlier, there're exceptions to every rule). Unfortunately, it has now become a stereotype, people do not expect black events to start on time and be organised. i mean we, or maybe I should say i, laugh about it yet it's nothing to laugh about since it's a self defeating flaw. i think that the problem is that when an event is being organised in a disorganised manner, and it turns out better than expected ( ie, it was okay, not great), it becomes a "remember when we had that organisation and it turned out good even though it was all last minute??? see, we really don't need to start doing things a lot earlier.............". Basically, we settle for less instead of realising our full potential. That's all I had to say about that topic. Here's another topic I was thinking about and this is mainly for the ladies on the list. Actually, it'ld be interesting to know what the guys think too. I was just wondering if you resented being in the kitchen cooking while the men gathered around in the living room discussing whatever???? Or whether you liked / don't mind doing it.I mean, I think it'ld be interesting to discuss the situation. And for the guys, are there any out there that would not mind being in the kitchen instead??? Or is the problem more about being teased by your buddied that you were in the kitchen instead of your wife type thing??? i once discussed the idea with a friend and they couldn't fanthom a role switch once in a while. Just wondering. Ancha (just finished exams and can finally breath and talk!) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:12:46 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Dual Citizenship Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971214201246.0068a508@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi! Guys, The old Gambian constitution did not allow dual citizenship. Can anyone tell me if the new one allows it? Someone told me a few hours ago, that it is now allowed for a Gambian to hold citizenship of another country withou loosing his/her Gambian one. Thank you very much. Happy holidays!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul Gibba. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:31:54 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971214203154.0068b830@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mr. Sallah, Although the cultural setting with regard to the courses taught at the university level is very important, what is equally important is the contents of those courses and how they are taught. Not all history books or professors for that matter, are like the past. At least I have that little experience as a graduate student of African History at the University of Toronto (Canada). Let us give the Gambia University a chance and see what the future holds for it and for us all. Have a merry X-mas and a happy new year in advance. Paul Gibba (Toronto). At 04:38 PM 12/14/97 EST, you wrote: >It is very simple to figure this out. Althought, it is important to have our >own cultural setting of everything regarding to education, but as there is a >limited resource to established our own, why not accept the offered. Are you >presently going to school in a Gambian cultural setting?, I suppose it is >not. So what is the different. >Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages. Whatever it is, we have no >choice. I believe your are going throught some cultural differences, but you >can't help it. Anyway, I am out of time at the moment. Later. >Peace. >Alasana Demba. > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 21:35:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature? (fwd) Message-ID: <199712150235.VAA09595@oak.ffr.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text Anch you wrote: > Here's another topic I was thinking about and this is mainly for the > ladies on the list. Actually, it'ld be interesting to know what the guys > think too. I was just wondering if you resented being in > the kitchen cooking while the men gathered around in the living room > discussing whatever???? Or whether you liked / don't mind doing it.I > mean, I think it'ld be interesting to discuss the situation. And for the > guys, are there any out there that would not mind being in the kitchen > instead??? > Or is the problem more about being teased by your buddied that you were in > the > kitchen instead of your wife type thing??? i once discussed the idea with > a friend and they couldn't fanthom a role switch once in a while. > Just wondering. > Ancha (just finished exams and can finally breath and talk!) > Believe me Ancha I find cooking really therapeutic especially after a long day in the office. However, I would want to imagine how it would be like for a young warrior (a Ked'do) after a long days battle. After all that might be what made us so unkind to those who work in the kitchen. Malanding jaiteh ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:57:10 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.Washington.edu Subject: Is it in our nature? Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971214225710.00689f70@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ancha, The issue of guys cooking is very interesting and I am glad that you raised it. In fact, I have been an advocate for guys to do just that for many years in both Canadian cities of Montreal and Toronto. What prompted me to take that cause was the simple fact that many guys cooked for themselves while they were single. In fact, many cooked for their Canadian or West-Indian girlfriends but refused to do so for their Gambian wives as soon as those women arrived in Canada. I am not arguing that it is wrong to cook for one's girlfriend. However, if one's non-Gambian wife/girlfriend is good enough to stay away from the kitchen, I bet the Gambian sister is equally good enough for the same treatment. These guys don't know what they are missing by exchanging the television remote control or the computer keyboard for the apron for at least a few hours. As Mr. Jaiter noted, cooking is therapeutic and I must add that it is fun. As for me, I used to cook for myself when I was single and I still do even though I am married to a loving wife. However, I must admit that it was not easy convincing her that I could cook and that it was o.k. for me to cook while she enjoys her favourite television shows. This did not sit well among many Gambian Torontonians who saw me as adeviating from the "TRADITION". Anyway, I enjoy doing it and I believe that it is the right thing to do in this day and age. Merry X-mas to you all. Paul Gibba. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:00:26 -0000 From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome Message-ID: <B0000024427@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> via Commit MBK, Point taken but I used that july '94 coup and the events (socially) that occurred as I was and have been home all through, so I am in no way supporting military coups or otherwise; but spoke of the realization across the board of a need of change; I have just returned from a 48hr trip to Senegal and in my opinion, the fact that the ruling elite or governing class or nomenklatura (there) are mostly 60-70 yr olds or 50-60 yr olds with the same mentality, lack of energy or what I call "the just happy to be there"or "do nothins" is a big problem; and unless a form of civil change occurs, some other form will occur, I tend to take a big picture view of our evolution into modern statehood..and I will also add that Change can be good or bad; but cahnge is ineveitable...but I appreciate your comments pmj ---------- > From: Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com> > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 00:50:42 EST From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century Message-ID: <31cea73c.3494c535@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Lang, This is exactly what I had in mind when I posted my comments.No matter how much someone is helping you never relinguish your workload to them. I am very please to have them helping but plans should be carefully sorted by gambians themselves.Its just like welfare in America unless you help a person help him or her self you are just waisting their time.Unless we take the responsibility ourselves things will never be the way it should be.why do you think other nations are so patriotic? is not because they were helped by others but because they had it set to their needs not what someone else think. who knows your home more than you do,we must come together as one in this issue for a better Gambia.Its our future and we should play with it let alone someone else.We will take all the support we could get but we must take responsibility not to repeat history again.our education failed us once lets not let it happen again. PS:Please post your insights and let know how you feel about this issue so we can come up with ways to tackle it before its too late. Thankyou yours Baboucar sallah Lamtoro@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:36:14 EST From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, Msonko@Hotmail.com Subject: Re: University Of The Gambia Message-ID: <e2124348.3494cfe0@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit hello everyone, I am just very concerned with what the future will hold for people that may not grow from it.Like the rest of our school system,programs were hardly revised nor where current material availed to us in those days . it always comes to me when ever I sign up for a new class every semester.I just want to see a better Gambia not a moulding one.You are right about those colleges but it seems to me that the trend is still the same.I may not have the answers to with but its always good let out what and how you feel about things especially when it comes to your own country.I think that we can be a better country if we can add our own with someone elses than just relying on one side. talk to you guys soon Baboucarr ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 13:44:46 +0000 (GMT) From: "B.M.Jones" <B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk> To: bantaba <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Unsubscribe Message-ID: <SIMEON.9712151346.A@p041.gri.hull.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII To List Managers, Kindly delist me temporarily as I will be away for christmas. May I take this opportunity to wish all list members a happy christmas and a prosperous and fruitful new year. Cheers basil ---------------------- B.M.Jones B.M.Jones@econ.hull.ac.uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 16:04:41 +0100 (MET) From: Olafiaklinikken Olafia <olafia@online.no> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: SOCCER/FOOTBALL Message-ID: <199712151504.QAA13264@online.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Uncle Tony, Thanks for a brief and concise history about soccer between the Gambia and Senegal. The last time the Gambia won over Senengal was in 1961. That time my father an ex. football player was the Trainer/Manager. The team that won over Senegal was consisting of players like Musa Jobarteh, Salifu Ndure, George Gomez, Late deputy Commander of Police Saul Samba, the Taal brothers Maam Bara and Amadou who was the goalkeeper and many more i Couldn=B4t remember their names, my brother ex. goalkeeper Saho who is residing in Sweden was around could have help me with more details but he is now currently in the Gambia in relation to the ZONE II combined with holidays. There were so many teams my father manged in the Gambia eg. like Gambia United which was consiting of players like Dawda Corr, Ousman Njai "TARU" goalkeeper photographer at Allen Street, Alieu Fall, Eliman or Cherno Bah of the defunct Commercial Bank. From what i was told and written in the Senegambia son by Pap saine in 1982 was that my father, Shyben A. Madi and Pa Prom were the most enthiuast in promoting football in tghe Gambia. The Gold cup which is Sahos cup is in the memory of my dad the late Alh. O.K. Saho. Which the first winners were REal De Banjul. Daddy Sang BTW Sheriff Sulayemane was a Guinean and not a Senegalese. He was playing in the Guinean National team HAFIA along with stars like Maxime Camara, Papa Cammara; Petit Sori and Soleir. Uncle I am hereby wishing you and your family a a very merry and cheerful X_mas and a prosperous happy new year Yours Nephew=20 Omar S. Saho ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 12:47:49 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <34956D45.2BF3@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Modou Jallow wrote: > > Habib, you wrote: > > > Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that Mr > > Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm > > welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The > > Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related > > projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and > > confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise . > > The more the investment money, the better for us. > > He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial > > help. > > > > Habib Ghanim > > This Sissoho guy seems pretty amusing. I mean, not only is he a > millionaire (in US dollars), he is also a humanist as shown by his actions > (as in the Florida donation). I even remember reading articles about his > influence on some US senators who were amazed as to how he amassed his > fortune. Man, he must be rich if he can impress the US that much by > throwing dollars around as if it were nobody's business. If he is a true > businessman, I wonder if he tried to convince Bill Gates that business in > Africa is not too bad :-))). But who really is this man, and what is his > connection with the Gambia (or should I say President Jammeh?)? How did he > become qualified to be a dual citizen of both Gambia and Mali? Better yet, > how did he obtain diplomatic status for the representation of the Gambia? > > I would really like to read millionaire Sissoho's biographical information > if it is obtainable. Certainly, any millionaire would have some > information written about him or her. Does anyone have such information > on Mr. Sossoho they wish to share? > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > ========================================================================= > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > PS > Brother Habib, please update me on the "Let's do it" project. Moe There was a meeting this past saturday at Fatou Sayang's building on 16 th street. I will let her give us the details because I had to leave early for a founder's dinner at the Muslim Community Center. Basically discussions and dialogue has started and I think it WILL happen. Habib Ps regarding SISSOHO I think your questions are valid and as Gambians we need to find out who is this roaming Ambassador of ours. we hear many rumors but no facts so maybe it is time to cast aside doubts and work for the interest of the Gambia by getting some of his money invested home in schools, communications and roads. hdg MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 17:47:45 -0600 From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Gambia Educational Support Plan -final call for comments Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971215172516.48e7b538@etbu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mr Malanding Jaiteh and the rest of the Education committee, Thanks a lot for your invaluable efforts towards drafting the first protocol on Gambian education for Gambia-l. Your time and dedication is very much appreciated. To that effect, i would like to make a few suggestions as requested by the committee from all members of Gambia-l. First, at the middle/high school level, i think we should require a mandatory inclusion of Gambian history, Gambian geography, and Civics/government into the school curriculum for any school that is to receive assistance. I think the schools should be given a grace period of one academic year to select the appropriate textbooks and find instructor(s) for the above classes. If after that period any school fails to meet these prerequisites, then we should make it clear that all assistance will be terminated at that point. The reasons for my suggestion are obvious. As discussed on this list a while back, these courses are not taught at the high school level. Their inclusion would bring about: 1. a better awareness of Gambian history, 2. a generation of Gambian geographers whose understanding of the Gambian topology can aid them in improving agricultural productivity, and last but not least, 3. a generation of Gambians whose mastery of their civil rights and whose understanding of the mechanism of the operations of govt will improve the overall political awareness of the Gambian youth. Secondly, i do not believe that we can carry this project to maturity without the involvement of the govt or some other establishment resident in The Gambia. Even if this believe of mine is not true, then i still think that we should raise the annual contributions of members as follows: Undergraduate Student ---- $20, Graduate Students ---- $30, and Non-Students ---- $50. We have embarked on a very ambitious project, and that can only be accompanied by our utmost generosity in order to fulfil our commitments to this project. From some estimates that i have done, we can create a few jobs in The Gambia alongside implementing our project. This is how it would work. Instead of giving any computers to high schools, i think we should rent an office in either of Serekunda or Banjul (places with a reliable supply of electricity), install the computers originally intended for the high schools at these offices, and then hire two or three people to teach computer classes at these locations. The money thus generated can then be redistributed to the chosen schools. This process will have the double effect of creating employment (a few jobs) in The Gambia, as well as satisfying the original needs of the recipient schools. You may ask how do we pay for the office as well as the salaries of these instructors. This is why i said earlier that we need govt involvement. We can ask the education department, one of the NGOs, or any philanthropic business to provide us with an office as well as the accompanying electric bills. As for paying the instructors, i recommend a D500/month salary to each part-time instructor working 3 hours a day for 6 days a week. That will keep the office open for 9 hours a day. The total cost will be $150/month or $1800/year for all 3 instructors combined (assuming $1 = D10 ). I personally think that this is a feasible goal. The key to my second suggestion is that we have to be conservative in the first year of our operation. We need to just target the Gambia college and the National library the first year. That way we can provide everything that the Education Committee has projected for these two institutions. From the fundraisers and the member contributions for the second year of operation, we can open up the office and hire the instructors that i talked about. By then our services to The Gambia college and the National library would have caught national attention (either through radio or TV advertisements) and that would improve our chances of convincing the govt, the NGOs, or local businesses to donate the needed office/utilities during our second year of operation. ( P.S. I think i can convince a few Gambians in the Dallas/Texas area who may not even be members of Gambia-l to contribute to our cause. I therefore challenge every member to discuss what we are trying to do with other Gambians who may not be wired to the internet. If every member can convince atleast one non-member to contribute an annual fee, imagine how much more we can do the first year alone. ) Thanx all for your time. Peace!!!!!! It's Tamsir. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:03:13 EST From: BAKSAWA <BAKSAWA@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is it in our nature? Message-ID: <c6356cc5.3495e163@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mr. Gibba: I was on the verge of adding my 2 cents to the topic at hand, when I stumbled onto your posting..... You said it all for me!!. And for those "brothers" who think you are deviating from the norm, tell them they are insecure. The preacher and islamic scholar encourages men to honor their wives (even though "TRADITION" reversed that role). Guys like you and my brother (Malanding Jaiteh) will have relationships that last simply because you cherish, honor, and respect your wonderful wives. Thank you very much brothers, and I salute you for not letting those insecure "brothers" intimidate you - keep it up!!! Awa Sey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:39:34 -0600 From: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19971215211706.0faf7112@etbu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Gambia-l, By the time you finish reading through this article, you would have been driven to one of two extreme poles. You either find yourself at the pole where the inhabitants claim that this article is nothing more than a publicity stunt from an ignorant author in an attempt to challenge the authority of a well respected scholar, or you may find yourself at the other pole whose inhabitants give the author the benefit of the doubt and each say to him/herself that "i think the author has a point and maybe everyone should just ponder his/her position a little bit more." Whatever pole you are driven to does not bother me at all, but i would appreciate it if you were driven to the latter pole. I have fought very hard with my inner self not to respond to the original article, but i lost the battle over the weekend when my conscience convinced me that i should say how i feel about it. I start by saying that i have heard a lot about Dr Sulayman Nyang, starting from when i was in The Gambia six years ago. I must also add that of all the things i have heard about the respected doctor, everything was positive, complimentary, encouraging, and very uplifting. Consequently, i do not wish to undermine or tarnish in any way that well-established reputation. However, i beg to differ with one point of his analysis of the transatlantic Slave trade. I would not have responded had that point been made on a subliminal level. In my opinion, the fact that the point was cited in an equation that attempted to equally ration the responsibility of the slave trade between Africans and people of European descent shows that it bears utmost importance in the doctor's analysis. If that is not the case, then at least that point is still the most radical. Correct me if i am wrong, Dr Nyang. When i first started college, i had an opportunity in 1993 to defend this position that i am about to address, and i must say that my position hasn't changed during that four year span. That is precisely the reason why i was shocked when i read Dr Nyang's article in which he wrote: "The kind of slavery American historians call "the peculiar institution" in American history was unknown in pre-colonial Africa. However, I should hasten to add that Africans became partners in the traffic in human cargo soon after the concept of comodified slavery was introduced. Without African players there could not have developed this massive transplantation of millions from the continent to the Americas.This is why American whites, Europeans and continental Africans owe an apology to all blacks and persons of mixed parentage in the Americas." I am not a history student nor am i a historian, but my reading on issues pertaining to Africa and the Western world has brought me to the sad conclusion that when it comes to these issues, the African MUST view the western opinion with some level of cynicism. (To the benevolent friends of gambia-l who are of European descent, excuse my flagrant generalization. My people and me have experienced a painful history, and i cannot but reminisce on what could have been. I don't think you will agree, but i hope you understand.) Throughout history and in every war, the victor's point of view has been the medium through which the accounts of the battles and the war are narrated to the rest of the world. The losers are simply relegated as mere observers and sometimes they are even made to have been guilty of causing the war or of deserving the fate that befell them. The Atlantic slave trade is NO EXCEPTION to this tacit international law. Here we have to note that most accounts of the slave trade have been presented by mainly white observers/historians from Europe or the Americas. Because of the horrendous nature of crimes committed against Africans during and after the slave trade, it should not be any surprise that these mainly white analysts are now trying to shift the blame or responsibility from themselves to the Africans. This is a typical case of "blame the victim for his ill-fate." (I am not saying that Dr Nyang is white, but his position is mostly championed by white observers/historians.) It is because of this ill-conceived strategy by the perpetrators of the slave trade that i think it is very inappropriate for any black person to champion their position. The situation is even made worse and very DANGEROUS i add, when that banner is being waved by one of our best minds in the person of Dr Nyang who commands a large following. I do not dispute that African kings did sell some of their brothers and sisters into slavery. Nor do i disagree that one must accept responsibility for one's actions. My problem stems from the fact that Dr Nyang is putting "American whites, Europeans and continental Africans" on the same side of the equation, each bearing the same degree of responsibility in terms of apologizing to "all blacks and persons of mixed parentage in the Americas." That is not fair to black Africans. Why? Because even though Africans sold other Africans, that aspect of the slave trade did not start until very late into the transAtlantic slave trade. I hate the very notion of SLAVE TRADE. It never started as a trade, rather, the INVADERS sailed thousands of miles across the Atlantic, used their guns and rifles to terrorize Africans, kidnapped, raped, and murdered our foreparents, and in their attempt to justify their atrocities, they came up with the term SLAVE TRADE to make it appear as if though Africans were equal partners in this holocaust. Did not some Jews report other Jews in exchange for sanctuary during Hitler's WW2? ABSOLUTELY!! Do you hear anybody ask them to take responsibility on equal footing with their Nazi exterminators? Of course not!! Why? The answer is obvious. They are Whites!! Gambia-l, do you see where i'm headed with this argument? I'm sure you do, so be patient please. Finally, the context of the Africans' involvement in SLAVERY (i refuse to call it the SLAVE TRADE from now onwards) has to be addressed to justify my position. With guns and rifles possessed by the invaders against inferior tools of warfare possessed by the Africans, the option, or rather the ULTIMATUM was very clear. African kings had to sell some of their people and get something in return to help in the rebuilding process resulting from lost manpower/labour. The devil's alternative was to fight and be killed or captured and sent to slavery anyway. So we see that it was a prudent choice for the African kings to choose the option they did. At the same time, we have to mention that some did choose to fight, and they did so to the bitter end. The fight continued deep into captivity in the western hemisphere as evidenced by the mutiny on board the Spanish ship "La Amistad" in 1839, which is currently a subject of great controversy here in America. I conclude by saying that i hold no African responsible for slavery. I contend that had the Europeans and Americans not gone to Africa, then there would not have been any slavery to the magnitude that we experienced. As self appointed Special Prosecutor for Africa, i herewith indict the western perpetrators of slavery. On the other hand, as both Judge and Jury of this Special Prosecution, i convict the west to eternal pillory and their sentence must start with an apology to Africa for crimes committed during and after slavery. About two months ago, the Catholic Church offered an official apology to the Jews for not doing anything against Hitler's holocaust. Why then can't they do the same thing about the holocaust suffered by Africans? Again, the answer is obvious. I therefore charge the religious denominations with incest and rape of African resources. I better shut up 'cos i'm beginning to sound much like MUTABARUKA in "The People's Court." Dr Nyang, even though i am not qualified to make this assessment regarding the rest of your analysis on slavery, i humbly beg to say thank you very much for a thorough and very informative article. I must admit that i have never thought about slavery in Africa in the context that you espoused upon in dealing with the subject matter. Your elaborate views for or against my position on who should bear responsibility will also be greatly appreciated. Thanks again. Much respect!!! It's been a pleasure Gambia-l. Thanx for your attention. Peace!!!!! It's Tamsir. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 01:28:19 EST From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang Message-ID: <3eab489.34961f85@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Tamsir, I say sorry to the non-Africans especially those affiliated with this forum if they are offended with my opinion on this subject matter. I totally agree with your comments on slavery and the African position in it. I have always been opposed the theory that we had a direct play of that wicked past,we have never been and we will never be that way.The best example of our nature is being currently displayed in South Africa where we are forgiving people who has done unforgetable things to us as well.The fact that our forefathers were involved if they ever did was not a mere interest to accumulate wealth or goods but as a strategy to save our race.Like you said,they had no choice with guns and mottars against their heads.What they knew about slaves and the white people had in mind were totally different.I think that every Gambian knows that especially at the time of "TOBASKI" or "KORITEH" OR IN our naming ceremonies.Its nothing different from those days.I would like to summon all Africans and African Governments to call on the west to to accept the their wrong doing and come up with and apology to all Africans and the people of color with African heritage.I also demand that all the artifacts and stolen resources be returned immediately. Baboucar ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:21:59 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311DB37C@DKDIFS02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Friends, at the fantastic Yundum airport, while I was waiting for a plane, I counted 9 big planes, all of them belonging to Mr. Sissoho. He must be rich, because I was told that they were not frequently operating. We know from the competition among the national flight-compagnies in Europe, that it is costy every hour the plane is parked. Rumours (which one should not spread) was saying, that Mr. Sissoho didn=B4t pay, or have not payed for long time, for the airport-service and parking of his planes in Yundum. So .... Asbj=F8rn Nordam=20 > ---------- > Fra: Momodou Camara[SMTP:nijii@hotmail.com] > Svar til: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sendt: 12. december 1997 08:46 > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Emne: Re: Babading Sissoho >=20 >=20 > > > >Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told = that >=20 > Mr > >Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm > >welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help > The > >Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related > >projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and > >confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise = .. > >The more the investment money, the better for us. > >He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed > financial > >help.=20 > > > >Habib Ghanim > > >=20 > It is stated in one of the FOROYAA issues recently that Mr. Sissoho > ows=20 > four million dalasis to the Gambia including the Civil Aviation. >=20 > Momodou Camara >=20 >=20 > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 97 09:28:30 EST From: Mamadi Corra <MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU> To: Gambia-L <GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU> Subject: Senegal Message-ID: <199712161440.GAA04372@mx2.u.washington.edu> Hello People: Does anyone know if Senegal has chiefs and how they are called in the local language (wollof); My friend about to go to Senegal wants to know. H e has been to Ghana and chief is one of the words he said he had to learn and would like to know before he goes. I am not even show if senegal has any local chiefs. I am meeting with my friend for lunch today in about three hours; wit hin the next three hours if anyone has an answer for me you can please email at: Mkcorra@vm.sc.edu Thanks!!! Mamadi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:38:14 -0500 From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Is it in our nature? Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD60@Cry1.prc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain MUSINGS OF A SISTER LOOKING FOR ANSWERS Thank you Ancha, Paul, and Awa. I agree with Awa's statement that you could not have said it any better, Paul. My husband whips up a mean supa-kanja or chewi-kong every now and again and I have to tell you that I appreciate it and that it sets a precedent for our son who is constantly asking to assist me while I am in the kitchen. To Paul, do you find yourself using more of what it would take your wife to cook the same meal - my husband tells me it tastes even better - I don't know. This very subject of a husband cooking for his wife came up the other day and Gambian women were more disturbed by it than the men and I was not surprised. They were putting this sister down in the meanest of ways because her husband cooks and she does not. Well, this sister was pursuing a masters degree - she leaves the house to go to work early in the morning, goes to school after work and gets home after nine in the evening - the husband goes home from work - the husband has no problem doing what needs to be done in his household, why do the rest of us have a problem with it? For some reason, we the women help in proliferating the suffering of our sisters, mothers and aunts - why? In the cases of spousal abuse I heard of, some Gambian men and women would not intervene when they see blatant spousal abuse because "I don't want to be the cause of their divorce" one sister said. I guess they don't want to be accused 'tass saye' - I ask - what about contributory homicide? I don't think any one of us feels good or feels absolved of guilt when our sisters are being maimed and killed in abusive relationships when we could have done something. Brothers and sisters, speak up, speak out, show support, give support - how many hens do we usually keep in a coop at home - plenty and in the morning they all come out ready to take on the day fluffing their feathers looking good - when we open our homes to help, it is temporary but that time could be invaluable to the person being helped. Ya Soffie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:02:48 -0000 From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Is It Our Nature? re: Democratic change Message-ID: <B0000025103@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> via Commit MBK and Famara, Folks, I think we all agree here in principle about democracy..but what we have is what I call "psuedo-democracy", if one looks at our story, our so called democratisation started when the colonialist started packing their bags, suddenly they received so enlightenment and pushed through this tribe-based and reward-oriented democracy where govt. just promises and gives and the people take and take...this is definitely not going to develop a nation; Banjul has it..what about Serre Kunda or Brikama, Gunjur has that why not Kartong..this is the type of democratic politics we haave; Govt.-Party (I really can never tell the dividing line) promises if you vote for me-us, you will get this and that, if you don't..??? so this form of psuedo-democracy is what we have and had, the RULING party will never LOSE; also in our so called democracies, the leader can do no wrong, is always right, is divinely inspired et cetera for his supporters; and for his opponents he/she can do no right etc; -------------- I always contend that if the right thing does not happen, the wrong thing will; this does not make the WRONG thing right; what we have to do is try to ensure that the right thing happens; I have to get back to work, it is the taxpayers' money if i tarry any longer bye pmj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 11:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: Raye Sosseh <gt8065b@prism.gatech.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Member Message-ID: <199712161625.LAA00099@acmey.gatech.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Managers, Please add Simeon Robinson to the list...... email: gt6726c@prism.gatech.edu Thanks ************************************************************** * Raye Sosseh * * George Woodruff School of Mechanical Engineering * * Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 * * email: gt8065b@prism.gatech.edu * * * * Quote * * ----- * * "Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what * * keeps you going. * * * * Jim Ryun * ************************************************************ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:27:27 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New member Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971216092618.3131C-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Winston Abraham has been added to the list. We welcome him and are looking forward to his introduction and contributions. Thanks Tony Loum ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:35:30 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Need info Message-ID: <9712161735.AA42820@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit When is the beginning of the lunar (and holy) month of Ramadhan? Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 12:53:52 -0500 (EST) From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Need info Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.971216125238.3366A-100000@dracula> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII HI moe, What's up? Anyway I believe that the ramadhan starts on Dec 31. Well I guess I will talk to you sometime soon. Regards to Muhammed. Anna On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Modou Jallow wrote: > When is the beginning of the lunar (and holy) month of Ramadhan? > > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > --------- Anna Secka secka@cse.bridgeport.edu Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:04:48 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Need info Message-ID: <9712161804.AA45430@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anna, you wrote: > > HI moe, > What's up? Anyway I believe that the ramadhan starts on Dec 31. > Well I guess I will talk to you sometime soon. Regards to Muhammed. > > Anna Secka > secka@cse.bridgeport.edu Thank you very much sister Anna. Will talk to you soon. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:13:45 -0500 (EST) From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Is it in our nature? (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9712161258.A29839-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ya Soffie wrote: This very subject of a husband cooking for his wife came up the other day and Gambian women were more disturbed by it than the men and I was not surprised. They were putting this sister down in the meanest of ways because her husband cooks and she does not. Well, this sister was pursuing a masters degree - she leaves the house to go to work early in the morning, goes to school after work and gets home after nine in the evening - the husband goes home from work - the husband has no problem doing what needs to be done in his household, why do the rest of us have a problem with it? For some reason, we the women help in proliferating the suffering of our sisters, mothers and aunts - why? Ya Soffie, you are soooo right!! I think that one of the biggest problems is that women put women down. I wonder why that is and I think that it's the mental conditioning from way back that persists: A woman's place is in the Kitchen and BEHIND (not beside) her husband. hence when one starts to deviate from the norm, the men, but mostly the women, resent it. "She should be at home cooking and taking care of her husband" they say. I think some men resent it cause it means the women start to become self-sufficient and not dependent on them, or they feel that their teritory is being invaded. Women........, i think with women, the situation is that some wish they could do something more than stay at home. but because they're afraid of deviating from the norm or are not willing to fight inorder to be independent, they force the thought out of their mind and make independence an impossibility, a dream or wish that can't be fulfilled. And therefore, they resent it when they see other women doing it. I guess the feeling of resentment gets even worse when they see husbands (the few that do) supporting their wives. Another factor is that, I think some women are just so conditioned in thinking that a woman's place is only in the home, that they cannot concieve the idea of being independent " they neglecting their duties as women", i believe is the thought. Why????? Paul, you are sooooo right, (I wish there were more like you around) I was reading your piece and kept saying "you are soooo right !!!" aloud with a few hand movements. I'm telling you, people here must really think I'm mad sometimes!!! it's all good!!! Anyway, why do people (men especially) think that is???? As Paul said, cooking for your West Indian, white etc girlfriends but not the gambian ones??? AND ohhhhh!!! here's another interesting situation that I've come to observe: A couple gets married and are staying overseas somewhere. the husband learns how to cook, helps take of the child etc. BUT, as soon as they go back home, he all of a sudden doesn't remember how to cook, and the child becomes "your child"!!!! it's like, "well, we're back and don't expect me to do any of that sissy stuff I used to do" ( he has now become a man!!!). Again my question is, why?????? I know a few married women who don't want to go back home because they're afraid their husbands will change. in the case of spousal abuse, all I can say is that the men that do hit their wives are insecure whims, since it seems they can only feel powerful by beating a woman. And the women that refuse to help......... i guess we need to educate them about the difference between separating man and wife for the woman's safety and causing a separation cause of things like rumors etc. Ancha. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 13:09:39 -0600 (CST) From: Nyang Njie <st0021@student-mail.jsu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: forwarded posting from Dr. Nyang Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971216104517.32410A-100000@student-mail.jsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The capture, sale, and use of slaves on the African continent had a long history. The ancient Egyptians enslaved people;p slavery was an important form of labor in the Roman Empire and in the Muslim states. Africans from south of the Sahara were exported to North Africa and to the Middle East beginning with the arrival of Muslim traders in these regions. Thus, the Europeans who came later continued a well-established tradition of selling African as human cargo to plantations in the new world, but this does not justify the existence of slavery. Personally, I believe that slavery existed in part because it was tolerated by some of the rulers of that time. Tamsir I agree with you to an extent, but also we have to put aside our emotions for a minute and rationalize that slavery would not have been as sucessful as it was without the help of Africans. First of all most of the slaves captured were from the interior of Africa, and most of the Europeans could not survive in the heartland because they were susceptible to diseases that the Africans were immune to. Therefore this created middle men who profited from the capturing and transporting of slaves to the coast. Also the Africans contributed in slavery because of our naivety and feeling of complacency. We were always open to strangers and if we had learned our lessons from the past such things as slavery could have been avoided. Africa's greatest empires were destroyed and faced out by outsiders. The Songhai empire was invaded by the Morrocans, Ghana empire by the Almoravids, Egypt by the Hyksos and the Romans. We have allowed history to repeat it self time and time again. I don't think that we are equally responsible for slavery as the Europeans, but we (Africans) should learn how to take responsibility for our actions. Regardless which position is deemed appropriate the historical record shows that the new world could not have developed without the wealth that African slave labor produced for the various European nation states that were involved in the "slave trade." Prior to the introduction of Africans into the new world as slave labor the European colonial enterprises were unprofitable. Jere Jef: Daddy Njie. ********************************************* Until the lions have their own historians, the tale of the hunt will always glorify the hunter. *********************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:32:07 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Need info Message-ID: <3496D737.589A@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Modou Jallow wrote: > > When is the beginning of the lunar (and holy) month of Ramadhan? > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow Tuesday December 30 th 1997, Inshallah and Eid el Fitr-Koriteh (end of Ramadan) will be celebrated here at the Muslim Community center on the29 th of January. (according to the moon sighting committee) Habib Diab Ghanim -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 14:56:01 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is it in our nature? Message-ID: <3496DCD1.90C@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ceesay Soffie wrote: > > MUSINGS OF A SISTER LOOKING FOR ANSWERS > > Thank you Ancha, Paul, and Awa. I agree with Awa's statement that you > could not have said it any better, Paul. My husband whips up a mean > supa-kanja or chewi-kong every now and again and I have to tell you that > I appreciate it and that it sets a precedent for our son who is > constantly asking to assist me while I am in the kitchen. To Paul, do > you find yourself using more of what it would take your wife to cook the > same meal - my husband tells me it tastes even better - I don't know. > > This very subject of a husband cooking for his wife came up the other > day and Gambian women were more disturbed by it than the men and I was > not surprised. They were putting this sister down in the meanest of > ways because her husband cooks and she does not. Well, this sister was > pursuing a masters degree - she leaves the house to go to work early in > the morning, goes to school after work and gets home after nine in the > evening - the husband goes home from work - the husband has no problem > doing what needs to be done in his household, why do the rest of us have > a problem with it? For some reason, we the women help in proliferating > the suffering of our sisters, mothers and aunts - why? > > In the cases of spousal abuse I heard of, some Gambian men and women > would not intervene when they see blatant spousal abuse because "I don't > want to be the cause of their divorce" one sister said. I guess they > don't want to be accused 'tass saye' - I ask - what about contributory > homicide? I don't think any one of us feels good or feels absolved of > guilt when our sisters are being maimed and killed in abusive > relationships when we could have done something. Brothers and sisters, > speak up, speak out, show support, give support - how many hens do we > usually keep in a coop at home - plenty and in the morning they all come > out ready to take on the day fluffing their feathers looking good - when > we open our homes to help, it is temporary but that time could be > invaluable to the person being helped. > > Ya Soffie > well said especially on the wife beating. It is wrong and unacceptable. Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 15:22:48 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <9712162022.AA46252@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Folks, this is a forwarded message from an African American friend of mine. I would like you to help answer his question(s), if you please. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > > > Moe, I am very curious upon a manner. Last night I and a fellow white co > worker was discussing racism. He hit me with a fact that I could not > retort. "Africans do not care for African Americans because they are > Americans..." > > I would have attempted to argue this case, but I have long felt before this > argument that there was or is resentment of some sort from > Africa towards ......for lack of a better word: "slave descendants". > > Could you elaborate on the impressions and feelings Africans (overall and > in general) hold for African Americans?? > > Please feel free to ask your friends on the Gambia chat group to comment. > > Bernard > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:05:31 -0500 From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD61@Cry1.prc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Brother Bernard - The reverse could be said that African Americans do not care about continental Africans because their ancestors' actions contributed to your being here. But, the famous tactic, by the colonialists, of pitting brother against brother is still en vogue today. By the by, what is your friend's basis for the statement he made? I once worked with a brother who wanted to go the Africa (I suggested he go to Gambia or one of the countries for Africa is soo big) because he wanted to know how it felt to go around bare-foot, living in a tree and all sorts of other nonsense - I don't have to wonder where he got the notion that people in Africa live in trees. That some Africans think some African Americans could be better off than they are but don't want to because they are lazy is not an original thought - I don't have to wonder from where they got that notion. Also, if brother Moe is your friend, how do you relate to each other; do you sense that he does not care for and about you because you are American? I don't think so. Yes, you have an answer for your co-worker - give yourself time before responding. There is a bridge to be gapped between continental and American Africans, no doubt. It will take each of us on our individual dealings to be REAL and find out about each other ONE-ON-ONE then the big picture will emerge. Soffie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:16:20 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Senegal Message-ID: <3496EFA4.56B7@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mamadi Corra wrote: > > Hello People: > Does anyone know if Senegal has chiefs and how they are called in > the local language (wollof); My friend about to go to Senegal wants to know. H > e has been to Ghana and chief is one of the words he said he had to learn and > would like to know before he goes. I am not even show if senegal has any local > chiefs. I am meeting with my friend for lunch today in about three hours; wit > hin the next three hours if anyone has an answer for me you can please email > at: Mkcorra@vm.sc.edu > Thanks!!! > Mamadi I believe it is the same as in theGambia--SEYFOU-- Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:03:42 +0000 From: f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re. Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <19971216230340.AAA15176@harrison.0.acs.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sister Soffie, You're just incredible. There couldn't be a better answer to Bernard's on purpose query. Black America must accept us as their brothers and sisters just as their counterparts in the United Kingdom. If we were to overcome the predicaments that lie ahead of us as a race, then we must robustly come together as one in regardless to our country of origin or nationality. We cannot and must not let such detestable concepts overshadow our dreams. Famara Demba. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 17:18:40 -0600 From: Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <81F3CC6EBB6FD011917800805FC17836988E62@panthers.rbvdnr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain I totally appreciate your comments Sister Soffie. I think we must remember that first any unfamiliar situation or person causes a wariness in ourselves. Also our points of reference for any topic are usually very different; not right or wrong (i.e., in America, it's the negative news coverage). On another note, if a people clean other's houses and plant and harvest another's crops, I would call that people industrious not lazy, etc. Also individual's priorities differ (i.e., school, family, money, etc.). I must go now but I appreciate all the comments I have read. Happy Holidays full of justice, unity, peace and love. Keretha > ---------- > From: Ceesay Soffie[SMTP:Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com] > Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 3:05 PM > To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Subject: RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) > > Brother Bernard - > > The reverse could be said that African Americans do not care about > continental Africans because their ancestors' actions contributed to > your being here. But, the famous tactic, by the colonialists, of > pitting brother against brother is still en vogue today. By the by, > what is your friend's basis for the statement he made? > > I once worked with a brother who wanted to go the Africa (I suggested > he > go to Gambia or one of the countries for Africa is soo big) because he > wanted to know how it felt to go around bare-foot, living in a tree > and > all sorts of other nonsense - I don't have to wonder where he got the > notion that people in Africa live in trees. That some Africans think > some African Americans could be better off than they are but don't > want > to because they are lazy is not an original thought - I don't have to > wonder from where they got that notion. > > Also, if brother Moe is your friend, how do you relate to each other; > do > you sense that he does not care for and about you because you are > American? I don't think so. Yes, you have an answer for your > co-worker > - give yourself time before responding. There is a bridge to be > gapped > between continental and American Africans, no doubt. It will take > each > of us on our individual dealings to be REAL and find out about each > other ONE-ON-ONE then the big picture will emerge. > > Soffie > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:50:39 +0100 From: Bala S Jallow <bala@algonet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <349713CF.2CBA4DA0@algonet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Soffie! I felt like as you picked the words out of my mouth concerning this particular issue. Well done. It was actually nice of Bernard to forward his wonders, questions, claims or call it what ever you like to someone who comes from the continent that all other races seems to see very inferior upon. To make it short i would love to see the end of this issue especially when the whole picture emerges. Ceesay Soffie wrote: > Brother Bernard - > > The reverse could be said that African Americans do not care about > continental Africans because their ancestors' actions contributed to > your being here. But, the famous tactic, by the colonialists, of > pitting brother against brother is still en vogue today. By the by, > what is your friend's basis for the statement he made? > > I once worked with a brother who wanted to go the Africa (I suggested he > go to Gambia or one of the countries for Africa is soo big) because he > wanted to know how it felt to go around bare-foot, living in a tree and > all sorts of other nonsense - I don't have to wonder where he got the > notion that people in Africa live in trees. That some Africans think > some African Americans could be better off than they are but don't want > to because they are lazy is not an original thought - I don't have to > wonder from where they got that notion. > > Also, if brother Moe is your friend, how do you relate to each other; do > you sense that he does not care for and about you because you are > American? I don't think so. Yes, you have an answer for your co-worker > - give yourself time before responding. There is a bridge to be gapped > between continental and American Africans, no doubt. It will take each > of us on our individual dealings to be REAL and find out about each > other ONE-ON-ONE then the big picture will emerge. > > Soffie -- /Bala & Family ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:20:42 +1200 From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <D5621715CE@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> Hi TENN, Your aunt Oumi (Taye) is sending you her greeetings. She came here in August to join me ( her husband). I am studying for Master of Engineering Management. Are you intouch with Bagura? We wish you success in your studies. Saikou and OumiI Njai Flat K6, 14 Kirkwood Avenue Riccarton Christchurch, New Zealand Phone - 64 3 341 2243 Saikou B M Njai Postgraduate Student Room E311 Department of Civil Engineering University of Canterbury P M B 4800 Christchurch,N Z ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 18:21:25 -0600 From: Ndey Drammeh <NDRAMME@wpo.it.luc.edu> To: bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Is it in our nature? (fwd) -Reply Message-ID: <s496c7a3.090@wpo.it.luc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Ancha, Thank a bunch for raising some very interesting questions. Here is what I have to add to all that has already been said: Perhaps, it is time that we start moving from a society where everything is defined in terms of "rigid gender roles" to a "genderless" society, if you will. As we all know, the individual is the building block of society. Therefore, any change in societal attitudes would have to start with within individual families. So you parents out there, please encourage your children to pursue "human activities," feminine as well as masculine ones. Children that grow up in a society where they are encouraged to pursue activities that they enjoy will grow up to be adults that are very open minded by societal roles. Of course, there are certain things that women are better at and others that men are better. However, we should strive for a society where there is a lot of flexibility in terms of the qualities men and women can and should possess, and the roles that they play. Thanks for reading, Kumbis >>> Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> 12/16/97 12:13pm >>> Ya Soffie wrote: This very subject of a husband cooking for his wife came up the other day and Gambian women were more disturbed by it than the men and I was not surprised. They were putting this sister down in the meanest of ways because her husband cooks and she does not. Well, this sister was pursuing a masters degree - she leaves the house to go to work early in the morning, goes to school after work and gets home after nine in the evening - the husband goes home from work - the husband has no problem doing what needs to be done in his household, why do the rest of us have a problem with it? For some reason, we the women help in proliferating the suffering of our sisters, mothers and aunts - why? Ya Soffie, you are soooo right!! I think that one of the biggest problems is that women put women down. I wonder why that is and I think that it's the mental conditioning from way back that persists: A woman's place is in the Kitchen and BEHIND (not beside) her husband. hence when one starts to deviate from the norm, the men, but mostly the women, resent it. "She should be at home cooking and taking care of her husband" they say. I think some men resent it cause it means the women start to become self-sufficient and not dependent on them, or they feel that their teritory is being invaded. Women........, i think with women, the situation is that some wish they could do something more than stay at home. but because they're afraid of deviating from the norm or are not willing to fight inorder to be independent, they force the thought out of their mind and make independence an impossibility, a dream or wish that can't be fulfilled. And therefore, they resent it when they see other women doing it. I guess the feeling of resentment gets even worse when they see husbands (the few that do) supporting their wives. Another factor is that, I think some women are just so conditioned in thinking that a woman's place is only in the home, that they cannot concieve the idea of being independent " they neglecting their duties as women", i believe is the thought. Why????? Paul, you are sooooo right, (I wish there were more like you around) I was reading your piece and kept saying "you are soooo right !!!" aloud with a few hand movements. I'm telling you, people here must really think I'm mad sometimes!!! it's all good!!! Anyway, why do people (men especially) think that is???? As Paul said, cooking for your West Indian, white etc girlfriends but not the gambian ones??? AND ohhhhh!!! here's another interesting situation that I've come to observe: A couple gets married and are staying overseas somewhere. the husband learns how to cook, helps take of the child etc. BUT, as soon as they go back home, he all of a sudden doesn't remember how to cook, and the child becomes "your child"!!!! it's like, "well, we're back and don't expect me to do any of that sissy stuff I used to do" ( he has now become a man!!!). Again my question is, why?????? I know a few married women who don't want to go back home because they're afraid their husbands will change. in the case of spousal abuse, all I can say is that the men that do hit their wives are insecure whims, since it seems they can only feel powerful by beating a woman. And the women that refuse to help......... i guess we need to educate them about the difference between separating man and wife for the woman's safety and causing a separation cause of things like rumors etc. Ancha. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:50:54 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is it in our nature? Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971216205054.0068a760@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Awa, Thank you for the comment. What I posted was a fact and I hope all the guys realize that we now live in the 1990's and gradually crawling into the 21st century. The woman is the other half. After all, the only difference is that, she is the "MAN" with the "WOMB", which eventually made her the "WOMAN", the word that is familiar to all of us. Peace!!!!!!!!!!! Paul Gibba. At 09:03 PM 12/15/97 EST, you wrote: >Mr. Gibba: > >I was on the verge of adding my 2 cents to the topic at hand, when I stumbled >onto your posting..... You said it all for me!!. > >And for those "brothers" who think you are deviating from the norm, tell them >they are insecure. The preacher and islamic scholar encourages men to honor >their wives (even though "TRADITION" reversed that role). > >Guys like you and my brother (Malanding Jaiteh) will have relationships that >last simply because you cherish, honor, and respect your wonderful wives. > >Thank you very much brothers, and I salute you for not letting those insecure >"brothers" intimidate you - keep it up!!! > >Awa Sey > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 00:55:52 -0000 From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <B0000025381@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> via Commit Moe, To your African-American friend and his Euro-American friend, I want to say that the qusetion is very general and at the same time narrow-minded (no insults intended); it is like saying Gambians hate Senegalese..to which I say..we do and we don't...w are the same but different people, why..because of what I call CULTURIZATION..English and French; Common Law and Napoleonic Code etc.. First in the 80s before Mandela was released I was a student in a Historically black school..Florida A&M University, with a majority African-American student and faculty body, the girls did not want to date or talk to us because we were "jungle bunnies"..did we have cars and roads, ...where did I learn how to drive? The guys made fun of us etc..it was mostly childish and ignorant..but mostly not from kids; it was untenable but gradually AFRICA this and that became the In thing and everyone was like MANDELA, SOUTH AFRICA, AFRICA ain't free; you are not from GAMBIA but from AFRICA; Actually I really believe I became an AFRICAN (really) in AMERICA; to get back to the point, we are all one and the same AFRICAN peoples..but have over the past 400 years had different CULTURIZATION; Jamaicans have a more positie attitude towards us..AFRICans than say BAHAMIANS who wanted to be more AMERICAN than otherwise; in varying degrees the consciousness and willingness to be AFRICAN varied; with us AFRICANS, the NIGERIANS and GAMBIANs were most comfortable with their AFRICANNESS than say the SIERRA LEONEANS and esp. GHANAIANS..surprisingly (this is my experience); some of the Africans felt the AFrican-Americans paid lip-service to the Africa Thing but did not live what they preach, they behave AMERICAn and I say of course..after 300-400 years CULTURIZATION why not..on the other hand, the stereotypical white AMERICAN differs from a stereotypical EUROPEAN, they have been more culturised in the melting pot; Now having touched on the earlier lack of consciousness and awareness of Africa and Africans by African-Americans, I must relate the other side, in 1986, as a Sixth Former at Gambia High School, some African-Americans at the U S Embassy on Martin Luther King Day(now a Federal Holiday) came to the school to show clips (movie) of the STRUGGLE against SEGREGATION and the marches in SELMA, etc..and guess what, most of the Sixth Formers, then Gambia's highest seat of Education, with its BEST and BRIGHTEST found the police attacking the MARCHERS with water canons and batons and dogs HILARIOUS..to such extent that the SHOW was ABORTED; I felt so sad for the AFRICAN-AMERICANS who bore the BRUNT of the SHAME especially since some WHITE AMERCAns (sorry but I am tiredof the POLITICAL-CORRECTNESS) came along for MORAL SUPPORT... my point is OUR peoples have been poorly EDUCATED and SENSITISED BUT OUR STORY and STRUGGLE for HUMAN DIGNITY is the SAME and GOES for DOWNTRODDEN PEOPLES... It is CHANGING BUT whether we know it or not; OUR STORY is the SAME with different sub-plots; so Moe, tell your AFRICAN-AMERICAN friend that it is like the brother in the GHETTO, whether you are well off or not; if you are a brother, your troubles are the same; you have to care cos unless his lot improves, you will be judged by his conduct In answer to the question, YES THOSE AFRICANS And AFRICAN_AMERICANS WHO KNOW BETTER DO CARE FOR EACH OTHER and I say to BERNARD..ASK your white FRIEND..ENGLISH, IRISH, POLISH or ITALIAN about how much the ENGLISH, IRISH, POLISH etc..CARE FOR HIM; ps..sorry ladies I am using the bro thing to make my point in the context I hope i have contributed meaningful to this discourse pmj ---------- > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:41:39 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Is it in our nature? Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971216214139.0068eea0@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Soffie, Your posting is well taken. Thank you very much. First of all, my wife is now used to my cooking and she loves every bit of it. I can cook a variety of sumptous Gambian dishes, including "supa-kanja". Bravo to your lovely husband. Tell him to keep up the good work. I really commend him for taking that bold action. It takes two to tango not only in tango dance but also in a marriage. As for your dear young son, continue to teach him that it is healthy and good to respect women and to participate in the so-called "women's domestic roles". Gender-bias has no room in the modern world. Let him learn that as lesson number one and not only him, but you and your husband will reap the fruit of your labour. What I want the brothers as well as the sisters to know is that, many things that are now considered "TRADITIONAL" were never so. A lot of these things were colonial inventions. Most of them were Victorian values which were part of the colonial package. Unfortunately, as the former colonizers threw away such archaic Victorian valies, the former colonized people held firmly to them. Try telling our dear mothers back home about the double-burden that they face everyday, and they will not hasitate to tell you that all their domestic chores are "TRADITONAL". As men, our moms, sisters, aunts, nieces, and yes, some wives, will not allow us to participate fully in the execution of household work because it is "TRADITIONAL" for women to shoulder that burden. What a shame and exploitation. Let me ask all you a question. Who does most of the cooking and dishwashing in hotels, restaurants and other eateries? Find out and let me know. If your answer is men, as I am convinced that they are, why then, are men not doing the same at home when the other person to be eating the food is none order than the one who said, "YES I DO", at least in the Western sense. As for many of the sisters who internalized this "TRADITIONAL" double-burden ideology, they should take a second look at things. Questioning these things do not make you a "BAD" wife neither does it make me and men like me "BAD" men, at least in the eyes of some "brothers". Only a marriage that was not solid in the first place can be broken as a result of one partner wanting the other to play a more responsible and positive role in the marriage. I admit that patriarchy is deeply-rooted in our society (Gambian) but we must change it. HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul Gibba. At 09:38 AM 12/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >MUSINGS OF A SISTER LOOKING FOR ANSWERS > >Thank you Ancha, Paul, and Awa. I agree with Awa's statement that you >could not have said it any better, Paul. My husband whips up a mean >supa-kanja or chewi-kong every now and again and I have to tell you that >I appreciate it and that it sets a precedent for our son who is >constantly asking to assist me while I am in the kitchen. To Paul, do >you find yourself using more of what it would take your wife to cook the >same meal - my husband tells me it tastes even better - I don't know. > >This very subject of a husband cooking for his wife came up the other >day and Gambian women were more disturbed by it than the men and I was >not surprised. They were putting this sister down in the meanest of >ways because her husband cooks and she does not. Well, this sister was >pursuing a masters degree - she leaves the house to go to work early in >the morning, goes to school after work and gets home after nine in the >evening - the husband goes home from work - the husband has no problem >doing what needs to be done in his household, why do the rest of us have >a problem with it? For some reason, we the women help in proliferating >the suffering of our sisters, mothers and aunts - why? > >In the cases of spousal abuse I heard of, some Gambian men and women >would not intervene when they see blatant spousal abuse because "I don't >want to be the cause of their divorce" one sister said. I guess they >don't want to be accused 'tass saye' - I ask - what about contributory >homicide? I don't think any one of us feels good or feels absolved of >guilt when our sisters are being maimed and killed in abusive >relationships when we could have done something. Brothers and sisters, >speak up, speak out, show support, give support - how many hens do we >usually keep in a coop at home - plenty and in the morning they all come >out ready to take on the day fluffing their feathers looking good - when >we open our homes to help, it is temporary but that time could be >invaluable to the person being helped. > > Ya Soffie > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:06:38 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Is it in our nature? (fwd) Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971216220638.00690b10@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ancha, Those men who leave everything to the care of their wives when they return to the Gambia should be ashamed of themselves. I guess they refuse to be seen by the so-called "TRADITIONALISTS" as "weak men". Hey! there is absolutely nothing macho about exploiting or even degrading a woman who is your other half. In fact, some of these men who pretend to be outwardly macho among their peers are the very ones who shamelessly carry their wives on their backs in the privacy of their homes. So I warn "progressive brothers" to be wary of such visible manifestation of machomanism. Marriage is a sacred institution and it should be handled with great care. Women are not only our wives, but they are also our mothers, sisters, aunts, and sisters. In fact, it is noteworthy that a woman who is maltreated somewhere may be your own mother, sister, aunt, or niece as well as she may be mine. Paul Gibba. At 01:13 PM 12/16/97 -0500, you wrote: >Ya Soffie wrote: > >This very subject of a husband cooking for his wife came up the other >day and Gambian women were more disturbed by it than the men and I was >not surprised. They were putting this sister down in the meanest of >ways because her husband cooks and she does not. Well, this sister was >pursuing a masters degree - she leaves the house to go to work early in >the morning, goes to school after work and gets home after nine in the >evening - the husband goes home from work - the husband has no problem >doing what needs to be done in his household, why do the rest of us have >a problem with it? For some reason, we the women help in proliferating >the suffering of our sisters, mothers and aunts - why? > >Ya Soffie, you are soooo right!! I think that one of the biggest problems >is that women put women down. I wonder why that is and I think that it's >the mental conditioning from way back that persists: A woman's place is >in the Kitchen and BEHIND (not beside) her husband. hence when one starts >to deviate from the norm, the men, but mostly the women, resent it. "She >should be at home cooking and taking care of her husband" they say. I >think some men resent it cause it means the women start to become >self-sufficient and not dependent on them, or they feel that their >teritory is being invaded. Women........, i think with women, the >situation is that some wish they could do something more than stay at >home. but because they're afraid of deviating from the norm or are not >willing to fight inorder to be independent, they force the thought out of >their mind and make independence an impossibility, a dream or wish that >can't be fulfilled. And therefore, they resent it when they see other >women doing it. I guess the feeling of resentment gets even worse when >they see husbands (the few that do) supporting their wives. Another >factor is that, I think some women are just so conditioned in thinking >that a woman's place is only in the home, that they cannot concieve the >idea of >being independent " they neglecting their duties as women", i believe is >the thought. Why????? >Paul, you are sooooo right, (I wish there were more like you around) I was >reading your piece and kept saying "you >are soooo right !!!" aloud with a few hand movements. I'm telling you, >people here must really think I'm mad sometimes!!! it's all good!!! >Anyway, why do people (men especially) think that is???? As Paul said, >cooking for your West Indian, white etc girlfriends but not the gambian >ones??? AND ohhhhh!!! here's another interesting situation that I've come >to observe: A couple gets married and are staying overseas somewhere. the >husband learns how to cook, helps take of the child etc. BUT, as soon as >they go back home, he all of a sudden doesn't remember how to cook, and >the child becomes "your child"!!!! it's like, "well, we're back and >don't expect me to do any of that sissy stuff I used to do" ( he has now >become a man!!!). Again my question is, why?????? I know a few married >women who don't want to go back home because they're afraid their >husbands will change. > in the case of spousal abuse, all I can say is that the men that >do hit their wives are insecure whims, since it seems they can only >feel powerful by beating a woman. And the women that refuse to >help......... i guess we need to educate them about the difference >between separating man and wife for the woman's safety and causing a >separation cause of things like rumors etc. > Ancha. > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 23:34:19 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Wife Beating Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971216233419.00689304@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ancha, I am glad that you raised the question of wife-beating. Of course, women who fear the heavy hand of their husbands may be genuinely reluctant to return to the Gambia under that circumstance. It is indeed, an abomination and a shameful act to beat a woman. One cannot show his machismo by engaging in such barbaric and irresponsible act. Some of the first things that I told my wife the very first day she stepped her foot in our appartment in Toronto, were that, she was and still is free to express herself concerning our marriage and life-style. I also told her that I WILL NEVER EVER INSULT OR BEAT HER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Nothing justifies or warrants beating a grown-up person let alone a wife. It is even unwise to beat a child much more one who you consider to be your partner for life. After all, what do one gain from beating a partner. If one wants to be that violent, it is better to seek service (military) somewhere where such "skills" may be needed. (I don't know where). Beating your wife is nothing less than a shameful sign of weakness and barbarism. It is cowardice. To quote Okonkwo (Things Fall Apart- Achebe), The days when "men were men and women were women" is over. It is now belatedly time to realize that women have the same feelings like men. They can feel both emotional and physical pain when inflicted on them. As a man, how do you feel when the woman that you hurt or are hurting is the very one whose face you look at everyday and night? How do you react or even feel when the woman who is sobbing in the remote corner of your livingroom or bedroom is the potential or actual mother of your lovely daughter or son? What kind of a cycle of violence are you unwittingly or flagrantly encouraging within your household? Have you ever thought what your children, especially male ones, might do in terms of their relationship with women when they grow up? Hey! you shameful dad, what a bad role model you are. Let us put an end to violence against women and children for that matter. We gain absolutely nothing by being violent against the ones we claim to love. Can you imagine a woman leaving all the love and confort of her parents only to fall prey to a shameless and abusive husband? Ironically, this unfortunate sister may have nobody else in the Americas or Europe and thus look on to her abusive husband as her protector. What a serious mental breakdown will this poor woman have? Guys, remember that abuse has many ugly heads. You may think that you are not abusive because you are not physically beating your wife. However, I must tell you that psychological torture is one of the most serious forms of abuse. This may involve insults, name-calling and be-littling of your wife in every aspect of her life. These things can make your wife feel home-sick and may result in depression, thus ruining her expectations of an enviable and everlasting union. Remember, I am not claiming to be a psychologist nor a pshychiatrist, but what I am saying is important, at least to those who will take their precious time to read and understand. Till next time, I wish you all the best that you wish for yourselves. Remember, hands-off from your wives who are the other unquestionable halves of your beings. Give your wives the best presents (LOVE) in this holiday period. THAT WOULD NOT MAKE YOU A SISSY BUT RATHER A GENUINE MACHOMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul Gibba. ------------------------------
1 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Momodou	Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 16:04:24 Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:45:24 EST From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <5100eb25.34974ad6@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello Bernard, I can tell you that a lot of Africans don't really feel that way and they are not really worried about racial differences.African Americans lookdown upon Africans thinking that they are better off.Africans relate more to the west Indies brothers and europeans than you guys.They respect their heritage and they see us as partners than rivals which the Americans see us as.well I have to go now but I will address more of it later Baboucar Lamtoro@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:47:35 +0100 From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Member Message-ID: <647101.2219558@inform-bbs.dk> Greetings, Ebrima Ceesay has been added to the Bantaba. Welcome to Gambia-l Ebrima, we look forward to your contributions. You can send a brief introduction. Our address is gambia-l@u.washington.edu Regards Momodou Camara ******************************************************** * * E-mails:- momodou@inform-bbs.dk * * or * * mcamara@post3.tele.dk * * * * Homepage: http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara * ******************************************************** --- OffRoad 1.9v registered to Momodou Camara ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 10:02:26 -0000 From: "janko.fofana@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <B0000025612@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Janko Fofana" <janko.fofana@commit.gm> via Commit This is to introduce myself as a new member to the Gambia-L service. I am a staff of the department of agriculture in the Gambia and perhaps some of you on the list will remember me. I was a student in the United States between 1994 to 1996 studying for my Master's degree at Western Illinois University. As a matter of fact, I was in the list during my student days and indeed enjoyed the Gambia-L. Now that I am in the Gambia, I hope to again contribute to the list and give you some updates on Gambia's development efforts especially in the field of agriculture. My colleagues at the office here; Mr. Sana Jabang and Ramatoulie Sanyang are sending their best regards to you. They will love to hear from colleagues like Saihou Njai and wife in New Zealand. So until I start the ball rolling by sending in my first contribution, I believe I want to stop here. Thanks Janko S.B. Fofana Agric. Input Office. Gambia. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:50:41 -0000 From: "janko.fofana@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <B0000025607@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Janko Fofana" <janko.fofana@commit.gm> via Commit ---------- > From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: introduction > Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 1:20 AM > > Hi TENN, > > Your aunt Oumi (Taye) is sending you her greeetings. > She came here in August to join me ( her husband). > I am studying for Master of Engineering Management. > Are you intouch with Bagura? We wish you success in your studies. > > Saikou and OumiI Njai > Flat K6, 14 Kirkwood Avenue > Riccarton Christchurch, New Zealand > Phone - 64 3 341 2243 > Saikou B M Njai > Postgraduate Student Room E311 > Department of Civil Engineering > University of Canterbury > P M B 4800 > Christchurch,N Z > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:20:59 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311DB381@DKDIFS02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ceesay Soffie, you are maybe right. But how come that I as a white, western representative often feel that I have more in common to a black african, than a white european neighbour ? How come that I can feel more solidarity with an indian-american, than a white-american, who in your term is my "brother or sister", because they are white descendants of some danes who went to US, or descendants of some poor people who immigrated from Ireland, or from european criminals exported to US. If I should use the term used by some of you, they are my brothers and sisters. But even so I do not feel more sympathy with them. Is this = also a result of tactics ? I just ask, I have no answers. Why do some of you think that there is a "conspiracy" among me and my friends, towards blacks or africans, the same moment you see our skin, come to know our names and where we live ? Why do you expect more solidarity among blacks all over the world ("we have to stay together and not pitty one another because we are black skinned and then brothers and sisters") for the reason that such a solidarity should exist among the whites ? (that is what you say indirectly, that we, because we are white, stay together against other "colors") If I was born in Kerewan, The Gambia, by white parents, named Asbj=F8rn Modou = Lamin Nordam, and later presented me to the Gambia list as Modou Lamin from Kerewan. How would you judge my contributions to the list ? From the words and opinions I put there, or from my name and birthplace ? So please all of you, even we can find a lot of wrong doing amongst all of us, be careful to judge all of us just because of skin and = living-place. I have met black skinned people I should never socialize with, like I met some white ones. We can never get rid of the attitudes we are = taught or braught up with in our family, society. We can try to learn and be less prejudice. And the "history" of our ancestors can not be = neglected. I have to live with the knowledge of the danish = "slave-trade"-adventure, the christian church merrits(?) all over, the european colonialisation in the world, the economical new-colonialism of EU, the racist politics in Denmark to close our frontiers from pour "strangers". I made a note about it in my local newspaper in november, when I returned from = Gambia, and one dane has allready called my telephone-answer and told me that I=B4m a "**-lower" and not a "pure white " dane. Maybe it=B4s one = of my neighbours, because they are the ones who can see that I sometimes have "black" friends visiting. So who is who, and who should stay together = in the future. Should we form our solidarity-groups based on color, on countries, or .... ? Asbj=F8rn Nordam > ---------- > Fra: Ceesay Soffie[SMTP:Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com] > Svar til: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sendt: 16. december 1997 22:05 > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Emne: RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) >=20 > Brother Bernard -=20 >=20 > But, the famous tactic, by the colonialists, of > pitting brother against brother is still en vogue today.=20 >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 07:35:28 -0500 From: rdinvest@highway1.com To: Momodou Camara <momodou@inform-bbs.dk> Cc: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: please remove Message-ID: <3497C70E.E58ED842@highway1.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I will be leaving the country for the next 4 months and I would appreciate it if you could remove me from your news group Respectfully, Ron Matheson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 09:50:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <199712171450.JAA14442@spruce.ffr.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text We welcome you Janko. Malanding > > Sent by "Janko Fofana" <janko.fofana@commit.gm> > via Commit > > > This is to introduce myself as a new member to the Gambia-L service. I am a > staff of the department of agriculture in the Gambia and perhaps some of > you on the list will remember me. I was a student in the United States > between 1994 to 1996 studying for my Master's degree at Western Illinois > University. > > As a matter of fact, I was in the list during my student days and indeed > enjoyed the Gambia-L. Now that I am in the Gambia, I hope to again > contribute to the list and give you some updates on Gambia's development > efforts especially in the field of agriculture. > > My colleagues at the office here; Mr. Sana Jabang and Ramatoulie Sanyang > are sending their best regards to you. They will love to hear from > colleagues like Saihou Njai and wife in New Zealand. > > So until I start the ball rolling by sending in my first contribution, I > believe I want to stop here. > > Thanks > > Janko S.B. Fofana > Agric. Input Office. Gambia. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 11:07:24 -0500 From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD62@Cry1.prc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Brother Asbjorn -=20 The statement I made which lends itself to the "divide, conquer, then rule" policy exercised by colonialists, imperialists or any other 'list there is, is something that people of colour have experienced = throughout most of their history after contact with white people. This is experiential history, not mine not yours. That it is still going on in some pockets of the world is no mystery. =20 Now, when I say white people, I am not talking about Asbjorn the person who feels he has more in common with the people he has contact and dealings with than those he does not - but the LAS CACAS'S (I know I don't have the spelling of his name right but he was a person of the church who was telling slave owners to go to Africa and get Africans = and leave the Indians alone) of the world. > But how come that I as a white, western representative often feel = that > I have more in common to a black african, than a white european > neighbour ? How come that I can feel more solidarity with an > indian-american, than a white-american, You will have to answer this question, Asbjorn. I will bet that your having something in common with them has nothing to do with their = colour but because of the persons they are and the way you feel has nothing to do with your being white but the person you are. > Why do some of you think that there is a "conspiracy" among me and = my > friends, towards blacks or africans, the same moment you see our = skin, > come to know our names and where we live ? Where did you get this idea that from? Do you think that their is a conspiracy amongst people of colour to get back at the white people because of what they have suffered at their hands? The majority of people are not paranoid but there is a need to deal with the realities of our history but what we do with what we know happened is up to us. > Why do you expect more > solidarity among blacks all over the world ("we have to stay together > and not pitty one another because we are black skinned and then > brothers and sisters") for the reason that such a solidarity should > exist among the whites ? (that is what you say indirectly, that we, > because we are white, stay together against other "colors")=20 >=20 This is not what I or any one on this list says. Your sentiment above may have nothing to do with I wrote and I may be wrong for interpretation is key. > If I was > born in Kerewan, The Gambia, by white parents, named Asbj=F8rn Modou > Lamin > Nordam, and later presented me to the Gambia list as Modou Lamin from > Kerewan. How would you judge my contributions to the list ? From the > words and opinions I put there, or from my name and birthplace ? =20 >=20 How would you judge Fatou Ceesays contributions from Belgium or Sarjo Jallow from Germany had they had the same to say as I did on this subject? Would you assume they were not German/Belgian because of = their names? =20 > So > please all of you, even we can find a lot of wrong doing amongst all > of > us, be careful to judge all of us just because of skin and > living-place. > I have met black skinned people I should never socialize with, like I > met some white ones. We can never get rid of the attitudes we are > taught > or braught up with in our family, society. We can try to learn and be > less prejudice. And the "history" of our ancestors can not be > neglected. >=20 >=20 I agree with you - but to infer from what I wrote that I or any one = else is propagating blacks banding together because of their colour is wrong and serves no positive purpose. > Should we form our solidarity-groups based on color, on > countries, or .... ? >=20 No! What do you say? > =20 ps: I could not do much justice to what you wrote because of time limitations but learning continues -=20 Soffie Ceesay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:04:51 -0600 From: Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: A CHRISTMAS POEM Message-ID: <81F3CC6EBB6FD011917800805FC17836988E67@panthers.rbvdnr.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This one is rather long but I hope you read it to the end and enjoy it. Keretha ********* > 'Twas the night before Christmas and Santa's a wreck... > How to live in a world that's politically correct? > His workers no longer would answer to "Elves". > "Vertically Challenged" they were calling themselves. > And labor conditions at the north pole > Were alleged by the union to stifle the soul. > > Four reindeer had vanished, without much propriety, > Released to the wilds by the Humane Society. > And equal employment had made it quite clear > That Santa had better not use just reindeer. > So Dancer and Donner, Comet and Cupid, > Were replaced with 4 pigs, and you know that looked stupid! > > The runners had been removed from his sleigh; > The ruts were termed dangerous by the E.P.A. > And people had started to call for the cops > When they heard sled noises on their roof-tops. > Second-hand smoke from his pipe had his workers quite frightened. > > His fur trimmed red suit was called "Unenlightened." > > And to show you the strangeness of life's ebbs and flows, > Rudolf was suing over unauthorized use of his nose > And had gone on Geraldo, in front of the nation, > Demanding millions in over-due compensation. > > So, half of the reindeer were gone; and his wife, > Who suddenly said she'd enough of this life, > Joined a self-help group, packed, and left in a whiz, > Demanding from now on her title was Ms. > > And as for the gifts, why, he'd ne'er had a notion > That making a choice could cause so much commotion. > Nothing of leather, nothing of fur, > Which meant nothing for him. And nothing for her. > Nothing that might be construed to pollute. > Nothing to aim. Nothing to shoot. > Nothing that clamored or made lots of noise. > Nothing for just girls. Or just for the boys. > Nothing that claimed to be gender specific. > Nothing that's warlike or non-pacific. > > No candy or sweets...they were bad for the tooth. > Nothing that seemed to embellish a truth. > And fairy tales, while not yet forbidden, > Were like Ken and Barbie, better off hidden. > For they raised the hackles of those psychological > Who claimed the only good gift was one ecological. > > No baseball, no football...someone could get hurt; > Besides, playing sports exposed kids to dirt. > Dolls were said to be sexist, and should be passe; > And Nintendo would rot your entire brain away. > > So Santa just stood there, disheveled, perplexed; > He just could not figure out what to do next. > He tried to be merry, tried to be gay, > But you've got to be careful with that word today. > His sack was quite empty, limp to the ground; > Nothing fully acceptable was to be found. > > Something special was needed, a gift that he might > Give to all without angering the left or the right. > A gift that would satisfy, with no indecision, > Each group of people, every religion; > Every ethnicity, every hue, > Everyone, everywhere...even you. > So here is that gift, it's price beyond worth... > "May you and your loved ones enjoy peace on earth." > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 18:19:02 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <B0000025832@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Well said, Asbjorn. Color should soon go out of fashion, and stay out. Torstein The Gambia ---------- From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Date: 17. desember 1997 12:20 Ceesay Soffie, you are maybe right. But how come that I as a white, western representative often feel that I have more in common to a black african, than a white european neighbour ?..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 15:27:17 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <9712172027.AA36586@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ya Soffie, here is Bernard's response to your message. BTW, that was a wonderful response you gave. Thanks. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ----------------------------- MOE' COULD YOU SEND THIS TO SOFFIE FOR ME? THANKS, MORE LATER BERNARD ---------------------------- > Brother Bernard - > > The reverse could be said that African Americans do not care about > continental Africans because their ancestors' actions contributed to > your being here. But, the famous tactic, by the colonialists, of > pitting brother against brother is still en vogue today. By the by, > what is your friend's basis for the statement he made? WE DIALOG IN THAT MANNER ALL OF THE TIME. WE ARE BOTH 33 YEARS OLD, AND WE ARE SO DIFFERENT THAT WE FIND OURSELVES CURIOUS OF EACH OTHER. I AM DEMOCRAT, HE IS REPUBLICAN, I AM MUSLIM, HE IS AN ATHEIST, ETC. WE USE SUCH DIALOG TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE OTHER PERSON AND THE OTHER PERSON'S CULTURE, HISTORY,ECT. ALSO, I AM MUSLIM. I SUSPECTS HE IS CURIOUS AS TO ISLAM FOR ALL HE KNOWS OF ISLAM IS WHAT THE MEDIA TELLS HIM OF THE HONORABLE LOUIS FARRAKAHN AND THE NATION OF ISLAM. > I once worked with a brother who wanted to go the Africa (I suggested he > go to Gambia or one of the countries for Africa is soo big) because he > wanted to know how it felt to go around bare-foot, living in a tree and > all sorts of other nonsense - I don't have to wonder where he got the > notion that people in Africa live in trees. I AGREE SISTER, I SUSPECT HE LIKELY GREW UP IN A TREE. HE COULD TRAVEL TO MY HOME IN GREEN COUNTY ALABAMA IF HE WANTS TO KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO RUN AROUND BAREFOOT. AS A CHILD, I COULD NOT WAIT UNTIL SUMMER SO THAT I COULD GO BAREFOOT. I ENJOYED IT, AND I WOULD NOT CHANGE IT FOR THE WORLD. I HOPE MY CHILDREN ARE AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY. > That some Africans think > some African Americans could be better off than they are but don't want > to because they are lazy is not an original thought - I don't have to > wonder from where they got that notion. MMM??? INTERESTING, I KNEW THAT WHITE AMERICANS HELD THESE NOTIONS, YET IT IS NEW TO ME THAT AFRICANS WOULD HARBOR SUCH VIEWS ALSO. NOW, I SUSPECT FAR MORE CONTINENTAL AFRICANS KNOW THE OPPOSITE THAN SHARE THE FORMER.....YET, LET ME ADD THAT THERE IS SOME TRUTH TO THE FORMER. I KNOW "LAZY" AFRICAN AMERICANS AND I KNOW LAZY AFRICAN AMERICAN FAMILIES. THEY ARE A VERY VERY VERY SMALL MINORITY. YET, THEY EXIST. LIKELY THEY HAVE COUNTERPARTS IN OTHER RACES, AND OTHER COUNTRIES THAT PARALLEL THEIR TRIFLING EXISTENCE. YET ALSO, NOT TO MAKE AN EXCUSE, YET IT IS POSSIBLE THAT SLAVERY OR THE AFTER EFFECTS OF SLAVERY DID DEFLATE A PERSON SENSE OF SELF WORTH THEREBY CONTRIBUTING TO THAT TRIFLENESS. ALSO, THE AMERICAN "WELFARE" STATE RE- ENFORCES THAT LACK OF MOTIVATION. "WHY WORK IF THE STATE IS GOING TO GIVE YOU A CHECK?" > Also, if brother Moe is your friend, how do you relate to each other; do > you sense that he does not care for and about you because you are > American? I don't think so. YOU ARE CORRECT. YET UNDERSTAND, MOE IS ONLY ONE PERSON HE CAN NOT SPEAK FOR AFRICA. MORE WHAT I AM ASKING AND REFERRING TO IS "WHY HAVE THE DESCENDANTS OF THE KIDNAPPED AFRICANS NOT BEEN WELCOMED BACK TO AFRICA FOR TOURISM OR FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCE?' IF YOU WERE TO ASK AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WHICH CITY WOULD HE LIKE TO VISIT ABROAD, 97 PERCENT WOULD SITE A CITY NOT LOCATED IN AFRICA. IN SHORT, AFRICAN AMERICAN DO NOT CARE TO VISIT AFRICA. I BELIEVE THE REASON FOR SUCH IGNORANCE IS DUE TO WE, IN ALL OF OUR IGNORANCE ARE AFRAID TO VISIT AFRICA. YET, IF NELSON MANDELA, OR CHARLES TAYLOR, OR SOME OTHER PERSON THAT HAS THE POWER TO SAY "THIS IS YOUR HOME" AND WE APOLOGIZE TO YOUR FOREFATHERS FOR THE BETRAYAL THAT LED TO YOUR EXISTENCE IN NORTH AMERICA.......WE APOLOGIZE FOR NOT KILLING THOSE AFRICANS THAT PARTICIPATED IN THE SLAVE TRADE. WE APOLOGIZE FOR NOT CHOOSING TO FIGHT AND DIE WITH DIGNITY TO DEFEND OUR BROTHERS AND MOTHERS AND SISTERS.... WHY HAS AFRICA NOT REACHED ITS HAND TO US??? > Yes, you have an answer for your co-worker > - give yourself time before responding. There is a bridge to be gapped > between continental and American Africans, no doubt. It will take each > of us on our individual dealings to be REAL and find out about each > other ONE-ON-ONE then the big picture will emerge. I AM WITH YOU SISTER. I JUST GET FRUSTRATED. IT HAS BEEN 400 YEARS AND WE ARE NO CLOSER TO COMING TOGETHER THAT WE WERE 100 AGO....IT SOMETIME DEPRESSES ME. > Soffie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:39:39 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <349854AB.4AE3@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ceesay Soffie wrote: > > Brother Asbjorn - > > The statement I made which lends itself to the "divide, conquer, then > rule" policy exercised by colonialists, imperialists or any other 'list > there is, is something that people of colour have experienced throughout > most of their history after contact with white people. This is > experiential history, not mine not yours. That it is still going on in > some pockets of the world is no mystery. > > Now, when I say white people, I am not talking about Asbjorn the person > who feels he has more in common with the people he has contact and > dealings with than those he does not - but the LAS CACAS'S (I know I > don't have the spelling of his name right but he was a person of the > church who was telling slave owners to go to Africa and get Africans and > leave the Indians alone) of the world. > > But how come that I as a white, western representative often feel that > > I have more in common to a black african, than a white european > > neighbour ? How come that I can feel more solidarity with an > > indian-american, than a white-american, > You will have to answer this question, Asbjorn. I will bet that your > having something in common with them has nothing to do with their colour > but because of the persons they are and the way you feel has nothing to > do with your being white but the person you are. > > > Why do some of you think that there is a "conspiracy" among me and my > > friends, towards blacks or africans, the same moment you see our skin, > > come to know our names and where we live ? > Where did you get this idea that from? Do you think that their is a > conspiracy amongst people of colour to get back at the white people > because of what they have suffered at their hands? The majority of > people are not paranoid but there is a need to deal with the realities > of our history but what we do with what we know happened is up to us. > > > Why do you expect more > > solidarity among blacks all over the world ("we have to stay together > > and not pitty one another because we are black skinned and then > > brothers and sisters") for the reason that such a solidarity should > > exist among the whites ? (that is what you say indirectly, that we, > > because we are white, stay together against other "colors") > > > This is not what I or any one on this list says. Your sentiment above > may have nothing to do with I wrote and I may be wrong for > interpretation is key. > > If I was > > born in Kerewan, The Gambia, by white parents, named Asbj�rn Modou > > Lamin > > Nordam, and later presented me to the Gambia list as Modou Lamin from > > Kerewan. How would you judge my contributions to the list ? From the > > words and opinions I put there, or from my name and birthplace ? > > > How would you judge Fatou Ceesays contributions from Belgium or Sarjo > Jallow from Germany had they had the same to say as I did on this > subject? Would you assume they were not German/Belgian because of their > names? > > > So > > please all of you, even we can find a lot of wrong doing amongst all > > of > > us, be careful to judge all of us just because of skin and > > living-place. > > I have met black skinned people I should never socialize with, like I > > met some white ones. We can never get rid of the attitudes we are > > taught > > or braught up with in our family, society. We can try to learn and be > > less prejudice. And the "history" of our ancestors can not be > > neglected. > > > > > I agree with you - but to infer from what I wrote that I or any one else > is propagating blacks banding together because of their colour is wrong > and serves no positive purpose. > > Should we form our solidarity-groups based on color, on > > countries, or .... ? > > > No! What do you say? > > > ps: I could not do much justice to what you wrote because of time > limitations but learning continues - > > Soffie Ceesay Ya Soffie I say NO also to the last question based on religiuos grounds. I am a muslim first , then my nationality , then my colour or creed. The only difference or seperation in my opinion is in the mind. Imagine us all being blind and communicate by talking only. how can you tell someone's color if you are not told but you can tell someone's belief/or religion and that's the point I am trying to make. Keep up the clear and plain level discussions on, Soffie Habib -- MZ� ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:47:53 EST From: BAKSAWA <BAKSAWA@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <26d770e2.349880cb@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mr. Fofana: In your introduction, you mentioned a gentleman by the name of Sana Jabang. Is it the same person who worked in the Agricultural Unit at ActionAid The Gambia? If so, please extend my greetings to him - he was my office mate. Peace! Awa Sey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:16:48 -0500 From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <3498B1C0.9349F030@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gambia-L'ers, I would like to thank sister Soffie Ceesay, for the extremely well thought out response to the question of discrimination which was originally aired by Bernard, through Moe Jallow. Sister Soffie has done an exceptional job in a few well chosen paragraphs. You are to commended for your precision. However, following some of the later comments, I would like to revisit the topic. One of the reasons which I believe this topic causes so much confusion, has actually been touched upon by various people on the list, in a number of ways. The point to be made is that no people, whether European, Euro-American, African, African-American, or whom have you, are monolithic. (This is a point which Mr. Torstein has pushed beyond the limit in another context.) That is to say, that there is a divergence of perspectives and views within each national, cultural, religious, racial, or political group. Thus, there are those African-Americans and Africans of the continent who have recognized the historic, cultural, social, and political connections between us, and extend open arms to embrace one another as kin separated by great distance in space and time. The middle passage, was a period in history which forcibly separated families and caused a social, intellectual, and political schism in African society, which has had a tremendous impact upon all sides of the Atlantic which last until this very day. This is why there are a number of us who feel this bond, more strongly than between other people. However, there are those African Americans who, even in the late 1990's, have no identification with, nor love for Africans of the continent. Mr. Pa Musa Jallow's unfortunate experiences at Florida A&M, during the 1980s testifies to this uninformed view point. Likewise, there are those Africans of the continent who have neither love for nor identify with African-Americans. I have experiences similar to PMJ's during my almost four years in Nigeria, largely at one of the major University's there, where administrators asked me who I was, why was I there, and that I should get out, and go back to where I came from as they threw my documents in my face. (Not an easy pill to swallow, but a position based in ignorance and arrogance, which only gave me the strength to persevere) This is to say, that it is true, that there are some family members who do not feel the bond of kinship with as much fervor and who would do what they could for others outside of the kinship, while neglecting family members. Mr. Pa Musa Jallow's unfortunate experiences clearly attests to this condition, as do my own experiences in a Nigerian University during the same time period. This also speaks to the issue raised some time ago by Mr. Jallow, when he wrote about the "Crabs in the Barrel Syndrome" which unfortunately characterizes some groups of people within our community (although certainly not all, as the somber tone of the Mr. Jallow's article might suggest.) There is diversity within the family. This is one of the legacies of slavery and colonialism, which subsequently has been perpetuated by the very people who do not profit from it! However, to say that the seeds for this distrust between, the extended family members have not been sown by those Europeans of ill will would be inaccurate. It happens up to the present time and happens between the various branches of our family tree. So for instance, the mistrust is fostered between the Caribbean and the African-American communities; between the African and the African-American communities; and the Caribbean and African communities; as negative stereotypes are projected about the supposed "other". Whether fortunately or unfortunately, I have encountered this on numerous occasions in my life time, when (what I, up-to then, considered to be), well meaning and friendly White folks - European-Americans cautioned me to be careful about associating (at differing times) with either the African-American community, the Caribbean community, or the African community, "because they are not like you and your people." Now, the interesting part of this is that I was born in the U.S., with a heritage which survived slavery in the rice and sugar plantation states, as well as having a heritage from the Caribbean, which similarly survived slavery in the sugar plantation provinces there! So, that the people whom others would steer me clear of, were ultimately a people from whom I directly trace my roots! Additionally, in 1974 my our family hosted Temu, a Chagga from Tanzania studying accounting in U.K., who visited the States for the first time. In one of our conversations, he made it clear that he was told, by one of the sponsors (who was White) of the group of Tanzanians two things. First, that they should not associate with the "Negroes in America" as they are a dangerous group of people. Second, those who were going to New York City, should under no circumstances travel to Harlem, as this was the center of the Negro killing grounds. To make a long story a little shorter, our brother Temu by name, stayed with us, (violating his first caution). After arriving in New York City, the first thing he wanted to do was to go to Harlem, where he was extremely elated to see large groups of Black people, many of whom had faces that he was familiar with, interacting and carrying on daily business with no overtly ill effects. (This violated his second caution.) The cautions which had been issued, apparently were false. This posed a number of questions which needed to be addressed. Who among the Tanzanians accepted the cautions about "Negroes in America" at face value and walked away from their experiences irreversibly tainted with negative images of African Americans, and were later in positions to influence others about their "experiences" and the realities of life in the United States? What else was conveyed that was also false? What was the purpose of this false information? And last, who benefitted from this type of disinformation? In response to Mr. Habib, I would say there is no need to artificially contrive a situation where we were blind. This forum affords us the same type of situation which you are suggesting might serve as a point. However, issues of gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality, and color all appear again and again suggesting their relative importance to people on the list. I would suggest that one's genetic legacy is indelible. One is born with some degree of melanin. Religion is something one grows into, and is taught. Individuals may change that if they see a different spiritual light. Similarly, although one is born within a specific country, and is automatically assigned some nationality; this can also be changed if one so desires. However, color and genetics cannot be changed so radically, unless, of course, one's name is Michael Jackson. (Sorry, for that one, I couldn't resist it.) All of these issues become evident in conversation, however the color issue is the only one, which is immediately apparent the very instant we meet. This we can react to, if we are predisposed to do so. Finally, back to the original topic. To answer Bernard, all of these examples were meant to illustrate, that there are a variety of different views held by Africans concerning African Americans, just as there are a variety of different views held by African Americans concerning continental Africans. However, much of the views need to be thoroughly explored, for they are sometimes based in a contrived myth, which superficially serves to keep kith and kin separated, as I believe is strongly implied by Sister Soffie Ceesay's initial response. In this light, one great value of Gambia-L becomes evident. The discussion group can serve as a valuable vehicle to have constructive discussion and dialogue, which has the potential to tear down the walls that artificially separate us, forestalling our political, economic, and social growth. As such, one of the expressions of the sixties is appropriate here. "Each one, teach one" for those who know are obligated to teach those who do not! Thank you and may you all have a good day. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 22:31:59 PST From: "RASTAFARI IS HIS NAME...JAH..GIVE THANKS & PRAISES" <ABARROW@rr5.rr.intel.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <9712180631.utk15119@RR5.intel.com> Ten Boy, Welcome to the electronic Bantanba....I hope all is going good with you and your family!!! Looking forward to your contributions. Pa-Abdou ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 02:16:34 EST From: MJawara <MJawara@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Christmas Eve Jam Message-ID: <44faa433.3498cdd5@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Gambian Support Group cordially invites you to a Christmas eve bash at the Marriott Hotel in Gaithersburg, Maryland. Featuring D.J. MOZE and the TANGLE VIBES PRODUCTION ; Complimentary Hors d'oeuvres in the executive foyer. TIME : 10 pm - 4 am COVER CHARGE : $10 B4 11pm and $15 thereafter... Proper Attire Required. ************************************************************************** **************** Gambian Support Group sweat shirts will be sold at the party for $25.00 each. Available Colors : Navy blue, Black, White, Ash. Available Sizes : X large, XX large. Limited number of T ' Shirts for $10 each. ************************************************************************** **************** DIRECTIONS :- Take I - 495 West to 270 North.Take Exit 9B to Sam Eig Highway West.Then turn left onto fields road and left again onto Rio Blvd; which becomes Washington Blvd.Pass the Rio Entertainment Complex and left into the Hotel entrance. Musa K. Jawara. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 02:31:30 PST From: "Babou Njie" <babounjie@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: unlist Message-ID: <199712181031.CAA11383@f131.hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Hi list managers, can you please unlist me because I'ill be away over the christmas holidays. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:29:04 +0100 From: "Housainou Taal"<Housainou.Taal@wfp.org> To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu Subject: Gambia Educational Support Plan-final call for comments Message-ID: <C1256570.005B675D.00@wfp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Dear Gambia-L readers, I would like to thank those who organised this forum for us to exchange views on our country. I would also like to thank those who put together the draft Gambia Educational Support Plan. I have the following comments: (1) As many of us are aware, the illiteracy rate in The Gambia is one of the highest in the world and is even worse in rural areas; therefore, support to primary education or even non-formal education could reach a large number of Gambians at less cost. There is evidence in the education literature that returns to every dollar spent on primary education is higher than investing in higher levels of education. Thus I am in favour of supporting a much higher number of primary school students and non-formal education if possible. (2) Nonetheless, I am also in support of investing in high schools and Gambia College in particular. However, I was a bit worried about the proposed mode of assisting Gambia College through member contribution of books. Although this is a noble idea, it may not be the most efficient. Why? Well the books donated may not be those needed by the students and faculty and given the very limited resources available perhaps a book fund could be more optimal. Members could contribute money to this fund and the fund managers could then discuss with Gambia College to purchase the most relevant books for the college. (3) Third, just reading the messages on Gambia-1, I realised we have a very diverse pool of talented Gambians all over the world and perhaps we should explore a medium for such folks to go back to The Gambia for a limited period to contribute their expertise. For example, Dr Nyang has amassed a lot of knowlege on African (and Gambian ofcourse) history and how about organising a three-month Visiting Scholar Programme at Gambia College or other appropriate institutions for him to organise seminars/lectures for students and Gambian practitoners as well. Should Gambian history be re-written by such such scholars along the lines of the seminal work of Chiekh Anta Diop or Basil Davidson? (4) How about a good photocopier for the Gambia College Library? I remember as an undergraduate student at UC- Berkeley our lecturers used to prepare a reader with articles photocopied from various sources which we purchased at low cost. Thanks and regards, Housainou Taal Programme coordinator, UN World Food Programme, Rome, ITALY ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 03:09:29 PST From: "RASTAFARI IS HIS NAME...JAH..GIVE THANKS & PRAISES" <ABARROW@rr5.rr.intel.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Unsubscribe Message-ID: <9712181109.utk20002@RR5.intel.com> List Managers, I would appreciate it if you could temporary remove me from the mailing list... I will be on vacation and will not have access to my mail for the next two weeks...and I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone on the list happy holidays. Thanks for all your efforts. Later, Pa-Abdou Barrow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:27:17 +0100 From: Fatou Khan <mec97a14@tron.lyngbyes.dk> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re:christmas Holidays Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19971218132717.007bb9f0@nt2.lyngbyes.dk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HEY, WILL YOU PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FORM THE 19TH OF DEC TO THE 5TH OF JAN. I AM GOING ON VACATION. THANK YOU. FATOU KHAN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:50:33 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discriminatiion (fwd) Message-ID: <9712181450.AA40918@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi folks, Thank you to all those who responded to the subject 'Re: Racial Discrimination'. You provided some very interesting and eye-opening arguments and opinions. I hope we call learn from this. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow =================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:59:22 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: The Intellectual Prostitutes (fwd) Message-ID: <9712181459.AA35674@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi folks, Does anyone know the author George Ayittey? I came accross this interesting article today, entitled 'The Intellectual Prostitutes'. It is a column that was published by New African (October, 1996; p.35). I also heard that Mr. Ayittey authored a very interesting and provocative book entitled " Africa Betrayed" published in 1992 by St. Martin's Press, NewYork. In his article below, you might contradict or disagree with Mr. Ayittey's analogies but you might also see what angle he was looking from. It's a rather long article but I hope you will enjoy reading through. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow _______________________ > : Title: The Intellectual Prostitutes > : Author: George B.N. Ayittey > : > : When Captain Yahya Jammeh overthrew the democratically-elected > : government of Sir Dawda Jawara on July 24, 1994, the only minister from > : the Jawara administration enticed to serve the military regime was the > : finance minister, Bakary Darbo, a very well respected economist -- even > : in international circles. He was instrumental in getting the World Bank > : to resume some aid to The Gambia. On Oct 10, 1994, he was fired by the > : military junta: He was no longer useful to them. Then on Nov 15, Capt. > : Jammeh accused him of complicity in the Nov. 11 abortive coup attempt. > : He fled to neighboring Senegal with his family. > : > : Next to assume the finance ministry portofolio was Ousman Koro Ceesay. > : When he too became no longer useful to the military junta, "they smashed > : his head with a baseball bat," said Capt. Ebou Jallow, the No.2 man in > : the ruling council who defected to the U.S. on Oct 15, 1995. They then > : riddled his body with bullets, dragged him into his official car, drove > : it to the outskirts of the city and set it ablaze. > : > : So many of Africa's intellectuals -- some with Ph.D.s and who ought to > : have known better -- sold out their conscience, integrity and principles > : to serve the dictates of military despots with half their intelligence. > : The allure of a Mercedes Benz, a diplomatic posting, a ministerial post > : and a government mansion often proved too irresistible. So hordes of > : highly "educated" African intellectuals sold themselves off into > : voluntary bondage and accorded heinous military regimes the legitimacy > : and respectability they craved. Even Idi Amin always found intellectual > : prostitutes to bed with. Then after being raped and defiled, they were > : discarded. > : > : Another was Abass Bundu of Sierra Leone -- the former secretary-general > : of ECOWAS. When the 29-year old illiterate Capt. Valentine Strasser > : appointed him foreign minister through a radio announcement, he left in > : a cloud of dust. Chickens flew out of his way, nursing mothers grabbed > : their babies or risk being run over. In August 1995, he was tossed into > : a garbage bin in a radio announcement. > : > : We just discovered that he's an opportunist and one cannot trust such > : people. So we kicked him out," said spokeman of the Strasser's National > : Provisional Ruling Council. "When we appointed Abass Bundu through a > : radio announcement, he didn't complain but when we fired him though > : another radio announcement, he wants to make noise," he added (The > : African Observer, Aug 8-21, 1995; p.5). > : > : A more recent case was that of Sierra Leone's fearless human rights > : lawyer, Sulaiman Banja Tejan-Sie. He was a vociferous critic of the > : ruling NPRC over human rights abuses and was reported to have a personal > : dislike for the military. He was hailed on student campuses as a young > : radical barrister and was invited to student conventions, giving > : lectures on human rights and negative consequences of military rule. On > : several occasions, he called for a national conference to prepare the > : way for civilian rule. Then suddenly in April 1995, he joined Sierra > : Leone's military-led government as Secretary of State in the Department > : of > : Youth, Sport and Social Mobilization. His detractors never forgave him. > : > : There is Paul Kamara -- a fearless crusader of human rights and ardent > : advocate of democracy. He published and edited the widely-respected > : paper, For Di People, whose circulation exceeded 30,000 copies a week. > : In Jan 1996, he joined the government of Brig-Gen Maada Bio -- a > : decision which by his own admission "disappointed many people." On > : election night (Feb 26), five men dressed in military fatigues with guns > : waited for him at his newspaper offices, in midnight-green Mercedes > : Benz. When he left his office and got into his official four-wheel drive > : car, the soldiers chased him and opened fire. "We've got the bastard at > : last," one of them said. But he escaped death and is now recuperating in > : London. > : > : In Nigeria, there is Baba Gana Kingibe, a career diplomat who was the > : vice-presidential candidate of Moshood K.O. Abiola. He accepted the post > : of foreign minister from the same military regime which annulled the > : elections that he and Abiola won. He did not raise a whiff of protest or > : resign when his running mate, Abiola, was thrown into jail. Neither did > : Chief Tony Anenih, the chairman of the defunct Social Democratic Party, > : on whose ticket Chief M.K.O. Abiola contested the June 12 election. In > : fact, Chief Anenih was part of a five-man delegation, sent by Gen. > : Abacha to the U.S. in Oct, 1995, to "educate and seek the support of > : Nigerians about the transition program." At an Oct 22, 1995 forum > : organized by the Schiller Institute in Washington, "Chief Anenih and > : Col. (rtd) Emeka O. Ojukwu, took turns ripping apart the reputation of > : Abiola . . . Anenih took pains to discredit Chief Abiola, whom he said > : was being presented by > : the western media as the victimized President-elect . . . Some of the > : Nigerians in the audience denounced the delegation as `paid stooges' of > : Abacha" (African News Weekly, Nov 3, 1995; p.3). > : > : More pathetic was the case of Mr. Alex Ibru, the publisher of The > : Guardian, who became the Internal Affairs minister. Then on Aug 14, > : 1994, his own newspaper was raided and shut down by the same military > : government under which he was serving. He did not protest or resign. > : After six months as interior minister, he too was tossed aside. In > : October 1995, his newspapers, shut down by the military government for > : more than a year, were allowed to reopen after Ibru apologized to the > : authorities for any offensive reports they may have carried. Then on Feb > : 2, 1996, unidentified gunmen in a deep blue Peugeot 504 trailed him and > : sprayed his car with machine-gun fire. The editor-in-chief, Femi Kusa, > : said that the car was bullet-ridden and Ibru was injured in many parts > : of the body. He was also flown to Britain for treatment. > : > : Remember Ernest Shonekan, whose 89-day interim government was overthrown > : by Gen. Abacha? Well, on Sept 19, 1995, he accompanied Nigeria's Foreign > : Minister, Tom Ikimi, to deliver a "confidential message" to British > : Prime Minister John Major in London. Nigeria's military junta told > : Westminster that it will pardon the 40 convicted coup plotters if > : British would help with the rescheduling Nigeria's $35 billion debt, > : support its transition program to democractic rule, its bid for a > : permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council, and U.S. recognition of its > : effort to fight drug trafficking. > : > : First of all, how in hell could Ernest Shonekan act as an emissary for > : the same barbarous military regime that overthrew him? How, how, how? > : Second, who thought that 35 years after "independence" from British > : colonial rule, Nigeria's government would be holding its own citizens as > : hostages, demanding ransom from the former colonial power? Of course, > : none of the "educated" emissaries recognized that their mission sank > : the concept of "independence from colonial rule" to new depths of > : depravity. > : > : In a letter to The Ghanaian Stateman (June 28 - July 11, 1994), Kwaku > : Obeng wrote: > : """Some of the intellectuals of the NDC are unprincipled > : opportunists who have betrayed scholarship. For example, how can a > : personality like Harry Sawyerr (minister of education in > : military-turned > : civilian Rawlings regime) tell the whole world that nobody can stop > : them from celebrating the day he was violently and unconstitutionally > : removed from office? Again, how can one understand an intellectual > : like Totobi Quakyi, who was at the forefront of students' struggle > : against the late Acheampong's (military) dictatorship only to turn > : round to resolutely defend a similar system?""""" (p.4). > : > : Says Ismail Rashid, a Sierra Leonian exile in Canada: > : > : """"We should not forget the opportunism, cowardice and unprincipled > : role of a section of the so-called intelligentsia in leading us into > : our present quandary. Lawyers, doctors, professors and a whole > : host of > : other "educated" people willingly participated in the general > : repression and corruption that was characteristic of APC (All > : People's > : Congress) rule . . . In 1980 and 1985, this elite remained muted and > : in some cases condemned the widespread protests against the APC > : dictatorship and the deteriorating economy by workers and students. In > : fact, it endorsed the punitive measures taken against these > : protestors. A classic representative of this class is the present Vice > : President, Dr. Abdullai Conteh (remember this name), who came to power > : on the crest of student protest in 1977, and who criticized President > : Momoh's succession to power as the work of an insidious "cabal > : which > : will only destroy the nation." Needless to say, Dr. Conteh ended in > : that same cabal as a leading actor. > : Finally, the nation cannot forget the opportunism and cowardice > : of the SLPP (Sierra Leone People's Party). After the death of so many > : people in the 1977 elections to ensure that the SLPP had a voice > : in parliament, its leading members, including its present chairman > : Salia Jusu-Sheriff, crossed over to the APC. For over 13 years, they > : also partook in the rape of the country"""(New African, May 1992, > : p.10). > : > : Vile opportunism, unflappable sycophancy and trenchant collaboration > : allowed tyranny to become entrenched in Africa. Doe, Mengistu, Mobutu, > : and other military dictators legitimized and perpetuated their rule by > : buying off and co-opting Africa's academics for a pittance. Says Ebow > : Annobil in The Ghanaian Voice (June 14-18, 1995): > : > : """"Lawyers who ought to know better are foolishly aiding, abetting > : and supporting the crimes of Rawlings. Intellectuals who should be > : teaching Rawlings have become STUDENTS to him. Chiefs who are far older > : to Rawlings have been kneeling before Rawlings in the Castle for > : favours and "Holland Schnapps." Pastors of some Pentecostal Churches > : have become informants, servants and liars to Rawlings"""" (p.6). > : > : When they fall out of favor, they are beaten up, tossed aside or worse. > : About 200 former ministers of Comrade Haile Mariam Mengistu's government > : are crammed in Ethiopian jails. "Over 80 percent of Rwanda's 700 judges > : and magistrates, many of them guilty themselves of the genocide, died or > : fled in the 1994 fighting" (The Economist, March 23, 1996; p.37). And > : not all those who flee have an easy time in exile. > : > : "Former Vice President in the deposed Momoh regime, Dr. Abudulai Conteh > : has been deported from Britain, following a failed attempt by his > : lawyers to convince the UK authorities that Conteh was a genuine refugee > : . . . The British High Court Judge, Mr. Simon Brown agreed with the Home > : Office that Conteh should bear some responsibility for the corruption of > : the Momoh government which played a major role in bankrupting Sierra > : Leone" (West Africa, Aug 31 - Sept 6, 1992; p. 1496). > : > : Cameroon refused political asylum to four Rwandan Hutu officials accused > : of having played a significant role in the genocide there in 1994. One > : of them was Ferdinand Nahimana, former director of the state information > : office and a founder of Radio Mille Collines, the Kigali radio station > : who inflammatory broadcasts egged on Hutu soldiers and ethnic militia to > : kill Tutsis. The others are Justin Mugenzi, president of the Liberal > : Party and former trade and industry ministry, Joseph Nzirorera, former > : interim president of the National Assembly and head of late president > : Juvenal Habyarimana's National Republican Movement for Democracy and > : Development (MRND) party, and Pasteur Musabe, former director of > : Rwanda's National Bank. And what happened to all those intellectuals who > : scrambled to take up ministerial positions in Samuel Doe's regime? Do > : Africa's intellectuals learn? Never! Why the obsession with government > : posts? > : > : Because in Africa, government is the vehicle we use, not to serve but to > : fleece the people. Ever noticed that the richest men in Africa are often > : heads of state and ministers? So every "educated" nut-head wants to be > : president or minister -- not because he wants to serve the people but to > : enrich himself. > : > : The ever-consuming desire of the "educated" African is to secure that > : top government post. Once attained, he would then use that office to > : amass a personal fortune by embezzling public funds, taking bribes and > : commissions on government contracts. Political power in Africa is the > : passport to great personal fortune. It guarantees access to fabulous > : wealth. Now you understand the phrase: "Seek ye first the political > : kingdom . . . " When he seizes the presidency, not even a bulldozer can > : pry him off. And when he plunders the state too, the stupid *** salts > : it away overseas to develop other peoples' countries! "According to one > : United Nations estimate, $200 billion or 90 percent of the Sub-Saharan > : part of the continent's gross domestic product (much of it illicitly > : earned), was shipped to foreign banks in 1991 alone (The New York > : Times, Feb 4, 1996; p.4). That flight of capital could have wiped out > : more than half of Africa's $390 billion foreign debt! > : > : The day African elites use their brains and the skills they acquired > : through "education" and military training to seek their wealth in the > : private sector, by actually producing something, even charcoal, Mother > : Africa will write a better report card and become a continent of > : producers, instead of consumers importing everything. But that's not > : likely anytime soon. The jostling for the presidency and ministerial > : appointments as well as the use of the gun for plunder will continue, > : degenerating into senseless civil war, wanton destruction and savage > : carnage. > : > : But if the military doesn't get them, the people will. Angry Africans > : have vowed to punish the traitors, sycophants, leeches and intellectual > : collaborators. In Nigeria, Zaire and several African countries, their > : houses and cars were burned down. In Senegal, after President Diouf's > : ruling Socialist Party "won" a huge majority in parliamentary elections > : in Feb 1993, violence broke out amid charges of vote rigging and Babacar > : Seye, the vice-president of Senegal's Constitutional Council, was > : killed. > : > : According to African News Weekly (June 4, 1993): > : > : """Seye was found dead in his car, apparently the victim of an > : ambush, > : investigators said. According to the independent, Sud Quotidien, a > : group calling itself the "People's Army" claimed responsibility for > : Seye's murder, the first political assassination in Senegal's > : history. > : Sud Quotidien said an anynomous caller telephoned the paper to > : say the People's Army carried out the attack. "This is a warning > : for the > : other judges in the Constitutional Council, so they really respect the > : people's will," it quoted the caller as saying." [Seye's killer > : was never found.] > : > : In Ghana, Kwabena Kofi of Tema has warned omniously: > : > : """I would like to remind Messrs. E.T. Mensah, Prof. Awoonor, Obed > : Asamoah, Harry Sawyerr and others, that if the unexpected happens as > : a result of their sycophancy, they and their families would be the > : first to bear the anger of Ghanaians"""" (Free Press, April > : 10-16, 1996; p.2). > : > : Whatever happens to them, shed no tears for Africa's intellectual > : prostitutes. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:25:17 -0500 From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Poem: The Cold Within Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD63@Cry1.prc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain 'T is the season for giving and I found this poem again and thought we could share it again. Christmas is here and Ramadhan is right around the corner and in the spirit of these two, let's light up the fires within > THE COLD WITHIN > > Six humans trapped by circumstances, in bleak and bitter cold. > Each one possessed a stick of wood, or so the story told. > Their dying fire in need of logs, the first man held his back, > for, of the faces around the fire, he noticed one man black. > The next man looking across the way, saw one not of his church, > and couldn't bring himself to give the fire his stick of birch. > The third one sat in tattered clothes he gave his coat a hitch. > Why should his log be put to use, to warm the idle rich? > The rich man just sat back and thought of the wealth he had in store, > and how to keep what he had earned from the lazy, shiftless poor. > The black man's face bespoke revenge as the fire passed from his > sight, > for all he saw in his stick of wood, was a chance to spite the white. > The last man of this forlorn group did naught except for gain, giving > only to those who gave, was how he played the game. > Their logs held tight in death's still hand, was proof of human sin. > They didn't die from the cold without, they died from the cold within. > > > _____________________________ > kahil@muss.CIS.McMaster.CA > > > Happy holidays to one and all - Soffie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:01:33 -0500 From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@prc.com> To: "'Gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <Gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: FW: story for the day Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD64@Cry1.prc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > The Cookie Snatcher > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > While waiting at the airport terminal for her plane to begin > boarding, a woman sat reading a newspaper. Earlier, she had > purchased a package of cookies in the airport snack shop to > eat > after she got on the plane. Out of the corner of her eye, she > noticed that the man sitting next to her was eating a cookie. > She > looked down and noticed that her package of cookies had been > opened and the man was eating them. The woman couldn't believe > that the man would have such nerve as to eat her cookies. So > that > she wouldn't lose all of her cookies to the man, she slowly > reached over, took a cookie, and ate one herself. To her > amazement, the man continued to eat more cookies. Getting more > and more irritated, the woman removed all but one cookie from > the > package and ate them. > > At that point, the man reached down and took the last cookie. > Before eating it, though, he broke it in half and left half of > the cookie for the woman. This made the woman so angry, she > grabbed the empty package with the half cookie and crammed it > in > her purse. Then, to her shock, she noticed that there in her > purse was her unopened package of cookies. > > Sometimes when we judge or condemn others, we end up judging > or > condemning ourselves. Have you ever been too quick to pass > judgement on another? When we do that, we put ourselves in a > precarious and often embarrassing position. Check out all the > facts, ask questions, listen carefully, and give people the > benefit of the doubt. There is One Who loves mercy more than > Judgement. Fortunately for us all, we can know Him. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:38:19 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Gambia Educational Support Plan-final call for comments Message-ID: <199712181838.NAA12060@oak.ffr.mtu.edu> Content-Type: text > > > > > > Dear Gambia-L readers, > > I would like to thank those who organised this forum for us to exchange > views on our country. I would also like to thank those who put together > the draft Gambia Educational Support Plan. I have the following comments: > > (1) As many of us are aware, the illiteracy rate in The Gambia is one of > the highest in the world and is even worse in rural areas; therefore, > support to primary education or even non-formal education could reach a > large number of Gambians at less cost. There is evidence in the education > literature that returns to every dollar spent on primary education is > higher than investing in higher levels of education. Thus I am in favour of > supporting a much higher number of primary school students and non-formal > education if possible. > > (2) Nonetheless, I am also in support of investing in high schools and > Gambia College in particular. However, I was a bit worried about the > proposed mode of assisting Gambia College through member contribution of > books. Although this is a noble idea, it may not be the most efficient. > Why? Well the books donated may not be those needed by the students and > faculty and given the very limited resources available perhaps a book fund > could be more optimal. Members could contribute money to this fund and the > fund managers could then discuss with Gambia College to purchase the most > relevant books for the college. > > (3) Third, just reading the messages on Gambia-1, I realised we have a > very diverse pool of talented Gambians all over the world and perhaps we > should explore a medium for such folks to go back to The Gambia for a > limited period to contribute their expertise. For example, Dr Nyang has > amassed a lot of knowlege on African (and Gambian ofcourse) history and how > about organising a three-month Visiting Scholar Programme at Gambia College > or other appropriate institutions for him to organise seminars/lectures for > students and Gambian practitoners as well. Should Gambian history be > re-written by such such scholars along the lines of the seminal work of > Chiekh Anta Diop or Basil Davidson? > > (4) How about a good photocopier for the Gambia College Library? I > remember as an undergraduate student at UC- Berkeley our lecturers used > to prepare a reader with articles photocopied from various sources which we > purchased at low cost. > > Thanks and regards, > > Housainou Taal > Programme coordinator, > UN World Food Programme, > Rome, ITALY > > > Housainou and Tamsir, Thank you for your time. The Draft committee have your comments and will do everything to include them in the document. The goal at the moment is to present a fairly broad document now. Once structures are in place details could be easily added. Malanding jaiteh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:38:30 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Wow moe.... (fwd) Message-ID: <9712181838.AA23880@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wow Moe' This person (Mr. Payne) was deep. It is obvious that he is informed, well traveled and placed thought and labor into his response. Moe, I somewhat feel small for posing the question, yet I am constantly reinforcing myself by telling myself, "well, it was the truth, it was how you (I) felt". Moe, do you think I was narrow minded in the second response I sent to soffie? Bernard PS. Moe, I thought about it, I guess I feel as though Africa owes some form of apology. Rather I feel that Africa is "obligated" to reach out to build a bridge to us. Not doing so is like blaming the rape victim. It is ludicrous to perceive African Americans are the violators. Can you fathom the thought of the amount of Respect (fear included) the world would bestow upon those of African decent if we undeniably came together?? I feel as though Africa is preventing that from happening due to ignorance and as I stated earlier prejudice. Peace be upon you brother, ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:41:00 -0500 From: Bennie Robinson <BROBINSON@gwmail.kysu.edu> To: mec97a14@tron.lyngbyes.dk, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re:christmas Holidays Message-ID: <s499361e.007@gwmail.kysu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Pease unsubscribe me from December 18, 1997 until January 31, 1998. Thank you. >>> Fatou Khan <mec97a14@tron.lyngbyes.dk> 12/18/97 07:27AM >>> HEY, WILL YOU PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE ME FORM THE 19TH OF DEC TO THE 5TH OF JAN. I AM GOING ON VACATION. THANK YOU. FATOU KHAN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 07:28:45 +0330 From: "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Tribute to Kekoto Maane Message-ID: <19971218232604.AAA29949@kansala.avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello guys, I was told that there was a tribute for my dad, Mr Kekoto Maane on this list and I never got to see it. I would really appreciate if someone can forward it to me. I am not sure how feasible this will be bcos it might have already been deleted. Anyway i am wishing myself good luck. Thanks to all of ya'll. Lang Jr. ---------- > From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: Racial Discriminatiion (fwd) > Date: 18 December 1997 06:20 > > Hi folks, > > Thank you to all those who responded to the subject 'Re: Racial > Discrimination'. You provided some very interesting and eye-opening > arguments and opinions. I hope we call learn from this. > > Thank you. > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > > =================================================================== > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:31:18 -0500 From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, Bernard Weston <bernard@raleigh.ibm.com> Subject: Re: Wow moe.... (fwd) Message-ID: <3499DC76.F6062358@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Bernard > > PS. Moe, I thought about it, I guess I feel as though Africa owes some > form of apology. Rather I feel that Africa is "obligated" to reach out to > build a bridge to us. Not doing so is like blaming the rape victim. It is > ludicrous to perceive African Americans are the violators. Can you fathom > the thought of the amount of Respect (fear included) the world would > bestow upon those of African decent if we undeniably came together?? I > feel as though Africa is preventing that from happening due to ignorance > and as I stated earlier prejudice. > > Peace be upon you brother, Mr. Bernard and Gambia-L'ers: The blueprints for the bridge which I think we agree needs to be built, must be drafted and constructed by those social engineers and construction workers from all corners of Africa and the diaspora. The obligation is on all of us, as brother Pa Musa Jallow has already demonstrated that the familial ignorance and insensitivity is owned by many of us on all sides of the Atlantic. As one Anansi story asserts, (yes, I know this is a culturally inappropriate reference, but I don't know of any equivalent "Sango ning Suluwo" story) that neither wisdom [nor ignorance] is monopolized by any one people. We are all in the same boat, having been placed there by the same historic forces. Thus, for any of us to get out of this rickety, leaking boat, we must forge a cooperation, which will utilize the best of our talents. With the wide base of information which we have access to here in the States, it is criminal for us to be ill-informed about most subjects, and particularly about Africa. I believe that in terms of written documentary sources on Africa, there is more here in the U.S. than in all of the countries in Africa combined. Under such conditions, it should not be anyone's duty but our own, to seek that information. Africa on the other hand, still has a wealth of oral lore which can be of aid in understanding our divergent and common heritage; and that is a bit of the information which we must tap. And by the way, Ghana's Head of State, Jerry Rawlings has openly welcomed all diasporic Africans to come, lend our skills and talents to help develop Ghana, as there is land waiting for us, if we are willing to back up our statements. The spirit of this invitation is nothing new, as Ghana opened its arms to receive a frustrated W.E.B. DuBois in 1958. How many of us, have taken up that offer? South Africa under Mandela has made a broader, but similar offer as well. The problem with the South African offer though, is that the way in which it was positioned, would lead to many of us going there to make money by exploiting the already exploited population of Black South Africans. Lack of access to that type of information, and a lack of a concerted willingness to extend ourselves to access that information, rank among the chief reasons for the lack of knowledge of such things. However, the intent of my original response was that all people of good will, should come together to recall and recast our common links and renew the bonds of kinship, which were lost during the period of the Middle Passage. More concretely Gambia-L, among other things, could very well serve as the anvil upon which those links are forged. Brother Bernard, it cannot be up to continental Africans alone to build these bridges, but rather it is the obligation of diasporic Africans as well. Apologies are unnecessary, because all of us (in this discussion) historically played some part in the tragedy called the Middle Passage and chattel slavery (obviously, some people played a much larger role than others, but the onus of that is neither on continental Africans, nor on diasporic Africans. I am not sure whether or not you are feeding off Dr. Nyang's eloquent overview of slavery, but I have a reaction to that overview, which further explores (through anecdote) both the reality of the slave trade as it existed in Africa, and slavery as it existed in the Americas. As such I decline to lay blame on continental Africans for this "peculiar institution." However, the reaction is a bit long and probably unnecessary at this point.) Whatever the case, Europe and Euro-America benefitted economically and technologically from this period, and still reaps those benefits as part of its legacy, so we should not engage in pointing fingers at one another as this does not serve any useful purpose. However, I believe that this dialogue, is a step in a more positive direction. Hopefully, the dialogue will continue, we then learn from it and move forward as a result Let's collaborate and build bridges. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 22:22:36 EST From: BobbySil <BobbySil@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <b64d23e2.3499e87e@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit MOE, CAN YOU ASK BERNARD TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE LIST INSTEAD OF HAVING TO FORWARD MAILS TO YOU. THIS WILL ENHANCE THE DIALOGUE...DONT YOU AGREE!!! MERRY XMAS! Baboucarr Sillah ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 23:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: The Nigeria I hate (fwd) Message-ID: <9712190455.AA39386@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think this might interest some of you. If not, please...pardon me. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > Category: Editorial > Date of Article: 12/16/97 > Topic: The Nigeria I Hate > Author: Harry Garuba > Full Text of Article: > > YEARS ago, as a young research fellow at the University of Texas, I would > run into young men and women wearing "Texas Longhorns" T-shirts and face > caps and briefly wonder why this animal was so dear to Texans. And then I > began to see people wearing T-shirts inscribed with the words "I love > Texas" or "I love Dallas" and other such varieties that spoke of city love > and country love. Since then, I have seen boys and girls in the streets of > Lagos wearing "I love America" or "I love New York" on the clothes. I have > nothing against these T-shirts and I even admire the handy mix of culture > and commercialism which they represent. America is, of course, the world > headquarters of pop culture and commerce and since the country dominates > the world in these areas who can deny them the right to imperialise the > rest of us who are not so gifted? When these things become worrisome is > when I sense, beneath the veneer of commercialism, the stirrings of a > vulgar nationalism which casts anyone who does not love America in this way > as either a fool or a demon. How can you not love God's own country, the > land of freedom and opportunity, the melting pot, the El Dorado of the > world? Now, that is when it gets dangerous. > > The syrupy sentiments of nationalism get murky when they demonise others > and turn myth and symbolism into sacred sites of worship where groups > identity is sacrelised and exclusivist rituals are performed. This is why > decent people throughout history have always been wary of nationalism. The > English writer, Samuel Johnson, once said that "patriotism is the last > refuge of the scoundrel". Our own Chinua Achebe in a reaction to a former > head of state's assertion that Nigeria is a great country countered that > Nigeria is one of the dirtiest and lousiest places in the world. And a > former president of West Germany was once asked if he loved his country and > he swiftly replied: "hell no ! I love my wife." That president - I forgot > his name - must have had memories of nazism in his mind when he gave that > reply. > > Loving your country, whether right or wrong, has led to some of the worst > atrocities in history and has shielded individuals from the moral > responsibility of asserting their humanity in the face of evil. The Serbs > and the Muslims in Bosnia, the Hutus and the Tutsis in Rwanda and Burundi, > in the genocidal rage, were helped along the way by this love for one's > people which licences you to do anything to others in the name of promoting > your people's interest. > > I am glad to say that I am not a nationalist nor patriot of that hue. I do > not love Nigeria. I do not wave flags or posters nor do I wear badges > emblazoned with any leader's image. I do not match to patriotic songs nor > goose step in company with those who believe in such effusions of > nationalism. And why should I love a land which has turned all the values I > cherish upside down, has stiffled the spirit of innovation and creativity > which make a people progress, and had enthroned unquestioning deference to > authority and enshrined subservience and sycophancy as national values. > That is not a country I can love, so this piece is about the Nigeria I > hate. > > The Nigeria I hate is the country which has encouraged its intellectuals to > migrate to other lands by crippling the economy and fostering tyranny and > dictatorship. A nation's greatest asset is its intellectual capital and > Nigeria once had great empires that treasured and nurtured this asset. I > remember in particular the Benin Kingdom run by a certain Ogun Ewuare, a > military genius with imperial ambitions and a militaristic instinct if ever > there was one. But this same warrior was the man who created quarters in > his capital city for the best in all the professions so that they could > continue the work of invention and creativity. He brought the best iron > smiths from all over the empire and resettled them in the Igun area of > Benin. He brought the best medicine men and herbalists, the artisans and > craftsmen and all the bests everywhere to reinforce the creative and > innovate base of his kingdom. He redesigned the capital city in a manner > that paid tribute to excellence and the lineages with which this excellence > was connected. > > Everywhere in the country there were empires of this nature which despite > their militarism conceded spaces to the creative and inquiring mind. Now, > several centuries later, their example has been turned on its head. The > urge to explore, the spirit of innovation and adventure, the discoveries > has been killed. The caliphate, built on the intellectual thoughts of Dan > Fodio, has been turned into vast area of illiteracy and pompous ceremony, a > place from which the very idea of thinking is banned and anti-intellectual > posturing has replaced the idea of building libraries and laboratories. The > people of the Book have become the ones who hate books and ideas, who > scupper the inventiveness, find all iconoclasts suspect and pander to the > politics of power and patronage. > > And when you look eastwards to the land of debate and republicanism, what > do you find replacing the ethos of hardwork and achievement? A venal > materialism that brooks no opposition and harbours no moral scrupples in > the bid for unearned wealth and the glory of flaunting it. The creativity > of the Awka black smiths has been buried under the mercantilist spirit of > the importers of "containers", the drug barons and the 419ers. So bad have > things become that most boys have abandoned schooling and apprenticed > themselves to the vulgar hordes who will stop at nothing, including ritual > murder, to get along. It will be a sorry day when those who cannot find > their way and show others the way buy all the pathfinders in the world. > > And turning west on this demented compass, you are disgusted by the love > for obscene ceremony, of burial ceremonies that never seem to end, endless > rituals emptied of content for which people amass unimaginable debts and > raid bank vaults. A consmetic culture of clothes and trinkets which will > make the most blue blooded medieval aristocrat wince confronts you with > epic vulgarity. The poetic rhetoric of tonal language designed for > imaginative expression and creativity has been turned inside out and > destroyed in the race to devise new epithets to praise the rich and corrupt > who now rule the land. > > Pray, where in this arid desert can I find things to love? And here we are > only looking at cultures not institutions and infrastructure. If we turn > our eyes to these, we will simply give way to despair. So we had better not > mention the political parties, the public utilities, the hospitals, schools > and roads nor the judiciary or the police and other agencies. What is there > to love in these things? Look around you and tell me what you love about > this country the way it is today? > > Originality, the urge to think and experiment, the ability to debate and > allow for a plurality of opinions and voices, these are all dead in the > country I know. The people in the process are also dying. To stop this land > from dying we need an intellectual renaissance which can only happen when > we once again allow creativity and dissent. If there is a Nigeria of that > dream tomorrow and I am around to see it, I may then decide to make good > business out of selling "I love Nigeria" T-shirts. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:32:28 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <9712190532.AA40956@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Baboucarr Sillah, you wrote: > > MOE, > > CAN YOU ASK BERNARD TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE LIST INSTEAD OF HAVING TO > FORWARD MAILS TO YOU. THIS WILL ENHANCE THE DIALOGUE...DONT YOU AGREE!!! > > MERRY XMAS! > Baboucarr Sillah I agree and thank you for the suggestion. However, he does not have reliable e-mail access at this time. He has two accounts: one that only sends and another that only receives. Additionally, he seemed to think that Gambia-L was ONLY for the discussion of Gambian issues but I think his most recent question may have jolted that notion, and will probably inspire him to consider joining the group. Peace and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================= mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:25:01 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: humor: Ever been a waiter or waited on? Message-ID: <9712190625.AA26838@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A customer was continually bothering the waiter in a restaurant; first, he'd asked that the air conditioning be turned up because he was too hot, then he asked it be turned down cause he was too cold, and so on for about half an hour. Surprisingly, the waiter was very patient, he walked back and forth and never once got angry. So finally, a second customer asked him why he didn't throw out the pest. "Oh I don't care." said the waiter with a smile. "We don't even have an air conditioner." Happy Holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ====================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:42:58 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Question... Message-ID: <9712190642.AA24670@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Folks, How and where did the word 'slavery' originate? Was it used well before the Europeans came to Africa? If so, how has the word changed over time? Any comments will be appreicated. Thank you and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:02:44 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Help needed! Message-ID: <9712190702.AA27986@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Gambia-Lers, I will appreciate it very much if you can help provide me with information on research and publications on the history of post-independent Gambia. I am particularly interested in the history between the years of 1900 to 1965. I had hoped that some Gambia-Lers, who might have some information and particular interest in the subject, might also have some information about accessing such data. After searching furiously on the webb for several days, I have not found anything constructive to the extent of my satisfaction. If you have any information you would like to share, please send me a private e-mail with details. Thank you and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 08:20:34 +0000 From: Abdou O Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Tribute to Kekoto Maane Message-ID: <2.2.32.19971219082034.006e4eec@alf.uib.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Lang! I sent this tribute to your dad on the 5th. of November. Here it is once again as you requested it: I Wrote: Hi G-lers! Here is something a brother, Baaba Silla, gave me the permission to share with list members. I really like the name spelling part, so I will give it a try myself:- Abdu Ujimaay Jibba. BTW, Try it yourself, it may be fun or even adoptive. ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- FWD: WEEP NOT FOR KEEKOTOO BUN ABDU SALAAM MAANE. By Baaba Silla, Norway. Like all deaths the people that you leave behind are left with a mix of emotions ranging from sadness to a profound sense of grief and loss. The demise of Kotoo-Kee was yet another episode in life's unending dramas. Who was this shy unassuming character? A man of few words, a boy of the old school, who harboured a keen sense of right and wrong, a devout muslim, a product of Armitage and a family-centred man. It is difficult to judge a person for what he has done, though like most African intellectuals it will suffice to say that he was caught-up with life and had difficulty breaking out to the spriral of sorting out the extended family needs. Consequently the immediate demands of living override the demands of the pen. During my long standing association with him spanning over thirty years(first as his pupil and then as his colleague at Armitage and Crab Island respectively), I have never doubted his creative abilities, sharpness of wit and intellectual powess. Regrettably, Kotoo Kee has not left much by way of literary work to enable critics and supporters to assess his world outlook and more especially, his impact on the Gambian body politic. I have had the good fortune to witness two major interventions that Kee made in the past two decades and these are:- a) Kumba Banjul/Samba Banjul play: Here, his voice as an author was unequivocal in joining Samba's society in their denunciation of his violation of tradition and for not living up to the expectations of his society. Samba had to make amends to his people by, renouncing all the values and trappings of the elite that he had newly acquired. Kee did not hesitate therefore to reward the young hero,a deserving bride, Kumba, following his acquiescence. Kee could be understood only if we situate our mind-set against the backdrop of the pre-independence and the immediate aftermath of the African countries gaining constitutional status. The African intelligentsia was trying to rediscover themselves. The main intellectual impulse derived from Casley Hayford, Edward Francis Small, Seghore, Ceasaire and Fanon to name but a few. Though his other influences are legion, the dominant and most fashionable philosophy of the day was negritude. Despite their potency of these ideas, at the time and the probability that they may have impinged on his subconscious, we must hand it on to Kee for his strong sense of his own individual. While conceding that Kee had an innate tendency towards reveering good old-fashion values of thrift religious spirituality,respect and a meticulous sense for detail, I hasten to add that Kee had no difficulty reconciling this potpourri of ideas, beliefs and practices. The Play therefore offers an innocuous critique of the life of the emerging petty-bourgeoisie in post colonial Africa. Kee was a man of his times. b) Following on from the trail blazed by Rev. J. C. Faye and Master Silla(h) in developing a national autography for gambian languages, Kee insisted upon spelling our names as we say and hear them. This is of course in direct contravention to the ways that approximated to anglo-saxon auditory perceptions of African phonology. Nonetheless, we have ourselves imbibed these ways and I dear say some of us resent any changes to the old order. Try these: - Why do we spell LOWE with the redundant (WE)? - BAKAW with A U instead of A W. - YAYA JAMME(H) instead of YAYAA JAMME. - ALHAGY NJIE BIRI instead of ALAAJI NJAAY BIIRI? - DALASI does not have a plural in Mandika. Why do we keep adding (S) to indicate that it is in plural form? Is it not enough to say 2 dalasi? Think about your own names and see if you will come up with something new. For all its worth Keekotoo et. al. have created a paradigm shift. You may applaud him or condemn him but the fact remains that he has left us with some food thought. Is this yet another fading voice to be washed away by the tide? I sincerely hope not. In my humble estimation, Kee has contributed immensely to education in The Gambia. And credit must be given where it is due. The lessons we learn from his death is pointedly, our own mortality and the fragility of life. Weep not for Kee, the challenge is to build on his experience and vision. His legacy lives on. Jaraama Kee. ----------------------------E---N---D----------------------------------------- THANKS FOR READING THROUGH! Abdu Ujimaay Jibba ( :-) ) At 07:28 18/12/97 +0330, you wrote: >Hello guys, >I was told that there was a tribute for my dad, Mr Kekoto Maane on this >list and I never got to see it. I would really appreciate if someone can >forward it to me. I am not sure how feasible this will be bcos it might >have already been deleted. Anyway i am wishing myself good luck. >Thanks to all of ya'll. >Lang Jr. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 02:20:26 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Help needed! Message-ID: <9712190720.AA25006@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Hello Gambia-Lers, > > I will appreciate it very much if you can help provide me with information > on research and publications on the history of post-independent Gambia. I > am particularly interested in the history between the years of 1900 to > 1965. Did I say post-independent? I really meant pre-independent (before independence). Boy, I must be really sleepy. Please, do not blame me. It's 2:30 in the morning here in Georgia :-)))))). Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:20:22 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311DB386@DKDIFS02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was not aware that Mr. Payne was not a member of the list, and I have just returned the fellowing message to him. Hope he sees it. Asbj=F8rn "Mr. Payne, thank you, yes let=B4s build bridges and enlighten our brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers and children all over the world. That is one of the things I come to learn from my first meeting with africa, africans, gambians some 20 years back. We have so much to give one another, and by mutual help we can maybe also get our politicians and some ignorants to understand what is all about. Merry Christmas from Asbj=F8rn Nordam" > ---------- > Fra: M W Payne[SMTP:awo@mindspring.com] > Svar til: awo@mindspring.com > Sendt: 19. december 1997 03:31 > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Emne: Re: Wow moe.... (fwd) >=20 > > Bernard > Whatever the > case, Europe and Euro-America benefitted economically and > technologically from > this period, and still reaps those benefits as part of its legacy, so > we > should not engage in pointing fingers at one another as this does = not > serve > any useful purpose. However, I believe that this dialogue, is a step > in a > more positive direction. Hopefully, the dialogue will continue, we > then learn > from it and move forward as a result >=20 > Let's collaborate and build bridges. >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------- > Fra: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu] > Svar til: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sendt: 19. december 1997 06:32 > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Emne: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) >=20 > Baboucarr Sillah, you wrote: > >=20 > > MOE, > >=20 > > CAN YOU ASK BERNARD TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE LIST INSTEAD OF = HAVING > TO > > FORWARD MAILS TO YOU. THIS WILL ENHANCE THE DIALOGUE...DONT YOU > AGREE!!! > >=20 > > MERRY XMAS! > > Baboucarr Sillah >=20 > I agree and thank you for the suggestion. However, he does not have > reliable e-mail access at this time. He has two accounts: one that > only > sends and another that only receives. Additionally, he seemed to = think > that Gambia-L was ONLY for the discussion of Gambian issues but I > think > his most recent question may have jolted that notion, and will > probably > inspire him to consider joining the group.=20 >=20 > Peace and happy holidays! >=20 > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > = > =3D=3D=3D > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com > = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:28:19 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: Help needed! Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311DB387@DKDIFS02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Moe, and that get me to think of the Gambia National Museum, and other institutions like that. Maybe it=B4s luxury for Gambians to find funds, support or money from the States budget, when people need food. But one day like you, most of the gambians want to know more detailed about the history, and like one of you said the other day, the school-books need history chapters. To form our national identity, the history must be told and reconstructed. How is the Gambia National Museum supported ? Asbj=F8rn Nordam > ---------- > Fra: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu] > Svar til: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sendt: 19. december 1997 08:20 > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Emne: Re: Help needed! >=20 > > Hello Gambia-Lers, > >=20 > > I will appreciate it very much if you can help provide me with > information > > on research and publications on the history of post-independent > Gambia. I > > am particularly interested in the history between the years of 1900 > to > > 1965.=20 >=20 > Did I say post-independent? I really meant pre-independent (before > independence). Boy, I must be really sleepy. Please, do not blame me. > It's > 2:30 in the morning here in Georgia :-)))))).=20 >=20 > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow >=20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 11:36:52 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Help needed! Message-ID: <19971219103714.AAA56570@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Tomaa, I just bought three books during my last trip to Gambia. 1. Leaders of the Senegambia Region: Reactions to the European Infiltration by Mrs. Patience Sonko-Godwin. The book covers an area of The Gambia National History Syllabus, GCE "O" level, WAEC and that of Social and Environmental Studies for Middle Schools in the Gambia. 2. Social and political Structures in The Precolonial periods (Ethnic Groups of The Senegambia Region) by Mrs. Patience Sonko-Godwin. The book deals specifically with the social and political structures of the major ethnic groups. 3.Stories of Senegambia by Dr. florence Mahoney. The book is written for all teachers engaged in educating "our children in Junior Secondary Schools, and for all student-teachers". All three books are printed in Gambia. Momodou Camara On 19 Dec 97 at 2:20, Modou Jallow wrote: > > Hello Gambia-Lers, > > > > I will appreciate it very much if you can help provide me with information > > on research and publications on the history of post-independent Gambia. I > > am particularly interested in the history between the years of 1900 to > > 1965. > > Did I say post-independent? I really meant pre-independent (before > independence). Boy, I must be really sleepy. Please, do not blame > me. It's 2:30 in the morning here in Georgia :-)))))). > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:40:28 +0000 From: f-demba@cougarnet.netexp.net (Famara_Demba) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Request Message-ID: <19971219104026.AAA2664@harrison.0.acs.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Managers, Since I am on the verge of going away, I would like you to suspend my membership until further notice. I thank you very much for your usual cooperation. Remember folks, drink and drive is deadly and only a dim wit would do that. Lets be careful and keep hopes alive. Peace on earth! Famara Demba ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 05:44:42 -0500 From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: SV: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <349A501A.A7A0F8CB@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thank you for your thoughts, but M W Payne is a member of Gambia-:L. Mr. Baboucarr Sillah expressed the idea that Bernard become a member of Gambia-L. M W Payne Asbj�rn Nordam wrote: > I was not aware that Mr. Payne was not a member of the list, and I have > just returned the fellowing message to him. Hope he sees it. Asbj�rn > > "Mr. Payne, thank you, yes let�s build bridges and enlighten our > brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers and children all over the > world. That is one of the things I come to learn from my first meeting > with africa, africans, gambians some 20 years back. We have so much to > give one another, and by mutual help we can maybe also get our > politicians and some ignorants to understand what is all about. Merry > Christmas from Asbj�rn Nordam" > > > ---------- > > Fra: M W Payne[SMTP:awo@mindspring.com] > > Svar til: awo@mindspring.com > > Sendt: 19. december 1997 03:31 > > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > Emne: Re: Wow moe.... (fwd) > > > > > Bernard > > Whatever the > > case, Europe and Euro-America benefitted economically and > > technologically from > > this period, and still reaps those benefits as part of its legacy, so > > we > > should not engage in pointing fingers at one another as this does not > > serve > > any useful purpose. However, I believe that this dialogue, is a step > > in a > > more positive direction. Hopefully, the dialogue will continue, we > > then learn > > from it and move forward as a result > > > > Let's collaborate and build bridges. > > > > > > > > ---------- > > Fra: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu[SMTP:mjallow@st6000.sct.edu] > > Svar til: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > > Sendt: 19. december 1997 06:32 > > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > Emne: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) > > > > Baboucarr Sillah, you wrote: > > > > > > MOE, > > > > > > CAN YOU ASK BERNARD TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE LIST INSTEAD OF HAVING > > TO > > > FORWARD MAILS TO YOU. THIS WILL ENHANCE THE DIALOGUE...DONT YOU > > AGREE!!! > > > > > > MERRY XMAS! > > > Baboucarr Sillah > > > > I agree and thank you for the suggestion. However, he does not have > > reliable e-mail access at this time. He has two accounts: one that > > only > > sends and another that only receives. Additionally, he seemed to think > > that Gambia-L was ONLY for the discussion of Gambian issues but I > > think > > his most recent question may have jolted that notion, and will > > probably > > inspire him to consider joining the group. > > > > Peace and happy holidays! > > > > Regards, > > Moe S. Jallow > > ====================================================================== > > === > > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > --- > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:01:36 +0300 From: "BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: The Nigeria I hate (fwd) Message-ID: <199712191641.NAA13839@qatar.net.qa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr.Jallow! That was a great artitcle you forwarded.Thanks and keep up the good work down there! Regards Bassss! ---------- .. To stop this land > > from dying we need an intellectual renaissance which can only happen when > > we once again allow creativity and dissent. If there is a Nigeria of that > > dream tomorrow and I am around to see it, I may then decide to make good > > business out of selling "I love Nigeria" T-shirts. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 07:24:27 -0500 From: M W Payne <awo@mindspring.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Help needed! Message-ID: <349A677A.87EF387A@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mr. Jallow, The following is a brief bibliography of some books on The Gambia. However, I believe that at least one of the list members has direct access to Dr. Gamble, who has done an extensive amount of research on The Gambia. If he can be contacted directly, perhaps he could share some of his information with the list. Additionally, this could also be an interesting topic for the list. That is to say, a discussion of Gambian history (in manageable stages) could provide the fuel for much discussion. At any rate, here is the brief list: Archer, Francis Bisset. 1967. The Gambia colony and protectorate: an official handbook. [1868]. London: Cass. Bakarr, S. A. 1980 The Gambia yesterday, 1447-1979 : (an ideal compilation-every use). Banjul, Gambia : Published for the Gambia Press Union. Baldeh, Mary Umah. 1981 Gambian Fula stories. San Francisco : D.P. Gamble, Berry, W. T. C. (William Thomas Charles) 1984 Before the wind of change. Suffolk, England : Halesworth Press. Challis, Stephen H. 1980 A history of local government in Kombo North District, Western Division, the Gambia, 1889-1944. Banjul, Gambia : Oral History and Antiquities Division, Vice President's Office, Old National Library. Darbo, Seni. 1976 A griot's self-portrait : the origins and role of the griot in Mandinka society as seen from stories told by Gambian griots. Banjul : Gambia Cultural Archives. Daun, Holger. 1974 Change, conflict potential and politics : two Gambian case-studies. Meddelande - Statsvetenskapliga institutionen: Lunds universitet Gailey, Harry A. 1975 Historical dictionary of the Gambia. Metuchen, N.J. : Scarecrow Press, Gailey, Harry A. 1965 A history of the Gambia. New York : Praeger. Gamble, David P. 1967 Bibliography of the Gambia. Bathurst, Gambia: Govt. printer. Gamble, David P. 1979 A general bibliography of the Gambia (up to 31 December 1977). Boston: G. K. Hall. Gamble, David P. 1982 Gambia government serial publications of the colonial period : a provisional list. San Francisco : D.P. Gamble. Gamble, David P. 1983 From the Gambian rebellion to the Senegambian confederation : a provisional bibliography. San Francisco: D.P. Gamble. Gamble, David P. 1988 The Gambia. Santa Barbara, Calif.: Clio Press. Gamble, David P. 1996 The south bank of the Gambia : places, people, and population. Brisbane, Calif.: Gray, John Milner, Sir. 1966 A history of the Gambia. New York: Barnes & Noble Hughes, Arnold. 1991 The Gambia : studies in society and politics. Birmingham, England: Centre of West African Studies, University of Birmingham. Nyang, Sulayman S. (Sulayman Shieh) 1975 The historical development of political parties in the Gambia. Washington, D.C.: Howard University. Quinn, Charlotte A. 1972 Mandingo kingdoms of the Senegambia : traditionalism, Islam, and European expansion. London : Longman. Reeve, Henry Fenwick. 1969 The Gambia : its history, ancient, mediaeval, and modern, together with its geographical, geological, and ethnographical conditions, and a description of the birds, beasts, and fishes found therein. New York : Negro Universities Press,. Sagnia, B. K. 1991 Historical development of the Gambian legislature. Lawrenceville, Va. : Brunswick. Sidibe, B. K. 1976 Kaabu and Fuladu: historical narratives of the Gambian Mandinka. London: University of London School of Oriental and African Studies. Sidibe, B. K. 1975 Senegambian traditional families; Women in traditional Senegambian society, past, present, and future. Banjul: Gambia Cultural Archives. Sidibeh, Binta Jammeh. 1980 A study on the traditional roles of men and women in a Gambian society, and how they affect the society-economic status of women. Banjul, Gambia: Gambia National Women's Council & Bureau. Southorn, Bella Sidney (Woolf), Lady. 1952 The Gambia : the story of the Groundnut Colony. London : Allen & Unwin. Sowa, Mary Beth. 1995 The Gambia. Washington, D.C.: American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. Regards, M W Payne Modou Jallow wrote: > Hello Gambia-Lers, > > I will appreciate it very much if you can help provide me with information > on research and publications on the history of post-independent Gambia. I > am particularly interested in the history between the years of 1900 to > 1965. > > I had hoped that some Gambia-Lers, who might have some information and > particular interest in the subject, might also have some information about > accessing such data. After searching furiously on the webb for several > days, I have not found anything constructive to the extent of my > satisfaction. > > If you have any information you would like to share, please send me a > private e-mail with details. > > Thank you and happy holidays! > > Regards, > Moe S. Jallow > > ======================================================================== > mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:28:23 GMT0BST From: "L.A.E. WRIGHT" <eco7laew@lucs-02.novell.leeds.ac.uk> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: unlist Message-ID: <2715C4C2216@lucs-02.novell.leeds.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT KINDLY UNLIST ME TILL THE 31 JANUARY 1998. WILL BE AWAY FOR THE HOLIDAYS AND WILL BE BUSY WITH EXAMS ON MY RETURN. WILL SURE MISS ALL THE NEWS. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OUT THERE. AINA WRIGHT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:53:50 GMT From: CAMARA BAKEBBA <cb714@greenwich.ac.uk> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: NINETEEN STUDENTS FROM BANJUL ACADEMY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR Message-ID: <D97EE34981@gre-wo-stu2.greenwich.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Bantaba Members, I would like the list members to know that nineteen Arts students from Banjul Academy, a new High school under the influence of Mr. I.M.L Drammeh (Principal) were denied having their O'level results. However, according to one of the students', Lamin S. Fadera; who has been following his result from the school has been told by the principal that West African Examination Council (WAEC) had reasonable doubt on whether the students have done Arts & Craft practical work on their own. The principal then asked Lamin to go home and wait until they have final statement from the examination council. Ten days later, Lamin returned to the school to see what was going on, this time the principal told him the Examination council has finally cancelled all their results and their decision is final. Lamin could not believe this action because neither the school nor the Examination council has done no investigation to see whether the students were guilty of this wrong doing. After all these stories, I decided to telephone my father in the Gambia, for him to see the principal about this issue. Again my father came out with the same stories. There I decided yet again to phone the Examination council in Banjul but this time i was not allowed to speak to the director concerned. The receptionist could not answer my questions but still refused to direct me to the right person, and the only answer she told me was that they don't deal with parents. I wonder what these students would feel after two years hard-working and every thing end up to be zero. How on Earth! would you justify this action? can any one tell me whether there is any way that we can help these students to have their results. If not why don't they allowed them to do that particular work again before terminating all the results. What of the other subjects they did in the examination day? should every thing have be terminated because of one practical work being subjected to unapproval by the examination board? Please, members I need your opinions to this problem and any one who can help in any form will be thank for the effort. I will also welcome those who are in the Gambia to try and do their best for these vonurable students. I hope justice be done every man, whether you are rich or poor. Your comments are highly wel-come. B.Camara. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:44:13 -0500 From: Bennie Robinson <BROBINSON@gwmail.kysu.edu> To: eco7laew@lucs-02.novell.leeds.ac.uk, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: unlist Message-ID: <s49a501c.048@gwmail.kysu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline Please unlist me until January 31, 1998. I will be on leave until then. Thank you. >>> "L.A.E. WRIGHT" <eco7laew@lucs-02.novell.leeds.ac.uk> 12/19/97 01:28PM >>> KINDLY UNLIST ME TILL THE 31 JANUARY 1998. WILL BE AWAY FOR THE HOLIDAYS AND WILL BE BUSY WITH EXAMS ON MY RETURN. WILL SURE MISS ALL THE NEWS. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OUT THERE. AINA WRIGHT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 12:02:37 -0500 From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Question... Message-ID: <19971219.120240.3662.0.nahak@juno.com> The word "slavery" were known to us by the Europeans when they came to Africa. The mistakes we make as Africans is that, when we read history books that were written by Europeans we failed to ask the following questions: Why did the Europeans come to Africa? What made them think that they can write our own history? Why did they decide to write African history? Will the history they write be favorable to us or to them? Was the history written in African point of view or European point of view? What is the purpose of the history? Please fellow humans, let us not lump things together that do not mean the same thing. What I mean is that we take Prisoners of wars, "Surga", "Nalemp", Internship, in Africa to mean slavery. If we know our history, we will realize that this is what the Europeans did to our history to justify slavery in Africa. We need to be able to think past the written history to understand slavery in Africa. Let us find out more about oral history, digging history, nature history and culture history. To understand Africa, we must get it from Africans not from Europeans. How can you say you know my house much better than I who live in the house? Let's wake up so that we can build a better future for our children. God bless you all. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:20:29 -0500 (EST) From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: RE: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9712191242.A11066-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I'ld like to thank Paul, Soffie and everyone that contributed to the topic of women and men in the kitchen and wife beatings. On the topic of racial discrimination, I think Soffie, Pa Musa and Mr Payne have done excellent jobs. And Asbjorn has raised some very interesting points. I think that Asbjorn was looking at the issue at the individual level, which is as it should be, but which is not the current situation. As I mentioned before on this same topic of race, I believe that humans like to categorise even before the colonial ists came into the picture. We categorise at different levels and put down others we think of as competitors, at whatever level, to make ourselves feel better (eg GAmbia and Senegal rivalry has beeen around for a very long time). I think some Blacks, esp. in North America etc feel that they should be the ones to encourage each other cause no one else will do it for them (Right now, I would have to agree with them. Again there are exceptions to every rule) Some even take this further, saying that because of the slave trade and racial discrimination Blacks tend to go through, then we should all get along. In this instance they forget that not all family members get along, rather than groups of people from different backgrounds. Even Blacks in the US categorise, for eg, there are Blacks who are "sellouts" and there are those that " keep it real". This trend goes on across all groups of people. I think that one of the ways to help with this problem is for parents to educate their kids about relating to others on the individual level. One of the issues that Moe's friend raised was, why Africans are not reaching out to African-Americans. This made me smile cause I'm thinking, we can't even solve our own problems and keep our people together. So I can't even think about us, trying to reach out to another group of people who also have their own problems. As things stand, that would be a very chaotic environment. I think dealing with people individually, instead of in groups, will be a key solution. Ancha. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:09:39 GMT0BST From: "Sikkaaka" <ley5mc1@nottingham.ac.uk> To: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Message-ID: <4E07FC15C81@hermes.nottingham.ac.uk> list managers, could you please remove me from the list over the vacation period. Thanks and greetigs to all members. Salam, Elhaj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:41:04 -0500 From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: NINETEEN STUDENTS FROM BANJUL ACADEMY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR Message-ID: <19971219.164106.3422.0.nahak@juno.com> Can anyone provide me with the following information regarding this case: The name and address of the school, date when the projects were examined, names and address of the 19 students, a copy of the letter of denial from West African Examination Council (WAEC) and name of the director. As soon as I receive the above information, I will make my contact with the high officials in The Gambia. Please, let's be more diplomatic. Peace!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:25:20 -0000 From: "tgr@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "Gambia-L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Farafenni Hospital Message-ID: <B0000026778@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sent by "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm> via Commit Hello Gambia L'ers. I just talked to a friend who is a fysiotherapist residing in The Gambia. He told me about the new beautiful Farafenni Hospital building complex. It has been ready he told me for something like six months, and officially opened I think. Despite that it seems that the only inhibitants of the hospital currently is one janitor and two watchmen.. It there anybody who knows why the hospital is not operating (no pun intended) yet? Is there a lack of funding and personell?? Can anybody do something about it? Regards, Tosh The Gambia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:16:17 PST From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: THE ONLY SOLUTION! Message-ID: <19971220011617.5621.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Fellow Gambians, I firmly believe that the only way we can solve our motherland's numerous problems is not just to be sitting in foreign countries and talk, talk, talk! But the solution is that we should all have the interest of the nation by going back and contributing to its meaningful development. Most people missed The Gambia for decades and do not know anything about the place. This is terrible! We all need to go back after we obtain our degrees and develop the roads, hospitals, airports, seaports, schools, our local folks, and many more so that we can make it The "SINGAPORE OF WEST AFRICA". ha! ha! Wishing all a Happy Christmas and a Wonderful New Year. Sillah. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 21:24:22 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: THE ONLY SOLUTION! Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971219212422.0068c13c@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Mr. Conateh, You are absolutely right. That is the only way out and I fully support your idea. Paul. At 05:16 PM 12/19/97 PST, you wrote: >Fellow Gambians, > >I firmly believe that the only way we can solve our motherland's >numerous problems is not just to be sitting in foreign countries and >talk, talk, talk! But the solution is that we should all have the >interest of the nation by going back and contributing to its meaningful >development. Most people missed The Gambia for decades and do not know >anything about the place. This is terrible! > >We all need to go back after we obtain our degrees and develop the >roads, hospitals, airports, seaports, schools, our local folks, and many >more so that we can make it The "SINGAPORE OF WEST AFRICA". ha! ha! > >Wishing all a Happy Christmas and a Wonderful New Year. > >Sillah. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:37:45 -0600 From: "Katim S. Touray" <dekat@itis.com> To: "Gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Suspending Gambia-L subscriptions Message-ID: <199712200244.UAA03582@tower.itis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks, happy holidays!! i hope everyone is doing fine, and getting ready for the Christmas or Ramadan (take your pick). i'm writing help those of us who'd like to suspend receiving mail from Gambia-L. i notice a number of people have sent out "Please unsubscribe me" type messages to the list. the problem is that it won't be easy for the list managers to keep up with the requests, even if they wanted to. given that it's not really hard for one to unscribe from the list, or suspend mail delivery, i see no reason why list managers should be bothered with such chores. so here's what you should do: 1. if you want to really unsubscribe, send an email to: LISTPROC@U.WASHINGTON.EDU (you can also use small letters) with the message: unsubscribe gambia-l alternatively, you can say: signoff gambia-l please note that you should leave your "Subject" field bland in all your messages to LISTPROC. and if you want to resubscribe again, you can just go through the managers. obviously, if your objective is to just suspend getting mail from Gambia-L, you would want to try something else. this is because a list manager has to subscribe you back to the list. to avoid creating extra work for the list managers, you should use option 2 (below) if you want to suspend your mail from the list. 2a. to postpone suspend getting mail from Gambia-L, send mail to: LISTPROC@U.WASHINGTON.EDU (the same address given above, and again, you can use small letters) with the message: set gambia-l mail postpone you will receive an e-mail confirming your new setting for Gambia-L. 2b. to turn you mail delivery back on, send an e-mail to the above address, with the message: set gambia-l mail note that as opposed to 2a, the "set" command used in 2b does not have "postpone" after "gambia-l" neither does it have anything like "resume" or "restart." by leaving "postpone" out, you are in effect defaulting to getting mail. in other words, if don't say "postpone", it means you want mail. i'll leave it at that for now. please let me know if you have any questions. have a great weekend, a MERRY CHRISTMAS, and a HAPPY NEW YEAR. and my sympathies to all the Jobes and Ceesays now crying about the on-coming Ramdan! Katim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 19:49:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Ousainou Demba - EECS (EE214)" <odemba@eecs.wsu.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Unlist Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.95.971219194123.26298A-100000@ren.eecs.wsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Can you please kindly unlist me from 12/19/97 to 1/18/98,because i will be away for christmas break.This is my e-mail address Odemba@eecs.wsu.edu. Have a happy holiday. Thanks Ousainou Demba. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 22:51:53 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Help needed! Message-ID: <9712200351.AA36536@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Payne, Merci beaucoup! You provided me with more information about sources than what I could ever imagine. I spent 2 hours at Georgia State University library yesterday,prior to asking for help, but could not find half the sources you suggested because I didn't quite know what I was looking for. This is a great start! Once again, thank you very much. Thank you also to my Tomaa, Momodou Camara in Denmark. I hope you are not under so many feet of snow :-))))). Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:00:35 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Racial Discrimination (fwd) Message-ID: <9712200400.AA36360@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ancha, you wrote: > On the > topic of racial discrimination, I think Soffie, Pa Musa and Mr Payne have > done excellent jobs. And Asbjorn has raised some very interesting points. > I think that Asbjorn was looking at the issue at the individual level, > which is as it should be, but which is not the current situation. Yes, they sure did a wonderful job of analyzing the contents of the subject. Asbjorn too needs a pat on the back for raising his points as he has every right to justify his own personal feelings and opinions. Thank you and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:04:34 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Interfaith Relations in Our Own Back Yard (fwd) Message-ID: <9712200404.AA36454@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just hope that Dr. Nyang wouldn't mind me sharing this article with the list members. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow > ---------------- > Hartford Seminary > > Interfaith Relations in Our Own Back Yard > > Sulayman Nyang takes the global issue of interfaith relations and gives it > a local face. In January Nyang began serving as the first Visiting > Professor in Abrahamic Religions for the Luce Forum in Abrahamic > Religions, a cooperative program between Hartford Seminary's Macdonald > Center for the Study of Islam and Christian-Muslim Relations and the > University of Hartford's Greenberg Center for Judaic Studies. > > Nyang himself is the embodiment of multicultural and interfaith > commitment. A native of Gambia who is a Muslim raised and educated by > Irish Catholic nuns and priests, Nyang has served as professor of African > Studies at Howard University and as president of the Greater Washington > Interfaith Conference. He served as a Gambian diplomat in Saudi Arabia for > three years. > > His international perspective as a scholar and advocate for interfaith > engagement does not mean, however, that he is unaware of the interfaith > issues that exist within local communities. For example, he recently led a > discussion in Springfield between members of the local Jewish community > and some followers of the Nation of Islam. Through his diplomacy and > objectivity, Nyang helped the two groups keep open the lines of > communication, despite their widely divergent views. > > In the context of the broader local community, Nyang is passionate about > the need for many different sectors of our society -- academic, religious, > government and business -- to work together for the social justice that > can thrive only when a community experiences religious and cultural > understanding and tolerance. > > "We must learn to reach past the 'town and gown' distinctions," Nyang > recently told a small gathering at a Hartford Seminary Faculty Collegial > Sharing session. "The city fathers must appreciate that educational > institutions such as Hartford Seminary are now brokers between the local > community and the world community. If your local neighbors don't view you > as a good Christian, or Muslim or Jew, you will not be effective or > celebrated globally." > > Acknowledging what he calls "the CNN factor," Nyang said Hartford Seminary > plays a critical role in interpreting religious trends to the secular > world. > > "Because of telecommunications and the globalization of information, in > some ways the world gets weird and bizarre," he laughs. "The Heaven's Gate > tragedy can give the world a wrong impression of American religion by > 'telescoping' isolated incidents that are only part of the picture." The > combination of the Seminary's ecumenical understanding of various faiths, > coupled with its capacity for rigorous intellectual analysis, makes it > ideally suited to promoting understanding, Nyang believes. > > "The Luce professorship has created a bridge," he says. "Hartford Seminary > is known as a pioneering place in the understanding of all religions. The > Muslim press is now reporting on Hartford Seminary's work, and this is > part of the globalization. And while faith will always be a personal > choice, democratic principles are important to true interfaith dialogue > because they respect the authenticity and dignity of other peoples." > > Nyang sees clear evidence of this in Hartford, where "there is a need for > greater bridge-building" between Christians and Muslims and between > immigrant Muslims and African-American Muslims. > > "Immigrant Muslims bring to America their own faith and so here, Islam is > colored by national and ethnic backgrounds," Nyang says. "Consequently, > immigrant Muslims' reaction to Christians is affected by geographical > frames of reference. In contrast, African-American Muslims see Islam as a > system challenging the American way of thinking affected by the history of > slavery and is therefore colored by racial considerations." > > Hartford Seminary can be a place of hospitality for many faith > communities, says Nyang. > > "It's a place where people can get to know eachother's 'mental > furniture'," he says. "And harmony occurs when we understand the way > another's thinking is arranged." > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:10:33 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: NINETEEN STUDENTS FROM BANJUL ACADEMY STILL DON'T HAVE THEIR Message-ID: <9712200410.AA32542@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Dear Bantaba Members, > I would like the list members to > know that nineteen Arts students from Banjul Academy, a new High > school under the influence of Mr. I.M.L Drammeh (Principal) were > denied having their O'level results. However, according to one of the > students', Lamin S. Fadera; who has been following his result from > the school has been told by the principal that West African > Examination Council (WAEC) had reasonable doubt on whether the > students have done Arts & Craft practical work on their own. The > principal then asked Lamin to go home and wait until they have final > statement from the examination council. This is really NOT good news for these pupils. What is the Education Department's reaction to these allegations of cheating? Please, provide more information if you can. Thank you. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:20:17 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Question... Message-ID: <9712200420.AA41352@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mr. Gomez, you wrote: > Why did the Europeans come to Africa? What made them think > that they can write our own history? Why did they decide to write African > history? Will the history they write be favorable to us or to them? Was > the history written in African point of view or European point of view? > What is the purpose of the history? These are all valid questions, but where do we find the answers if we do not have our own written history books to consult. I do not think Oral History alone can answer the question you raised above. Nonetheless, your questions are worth thinking about. Thank you and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:26:30 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: THE ONLY SOLUTION! Message-ID: <9712200426.AA36452@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > I firmly believe that the only way we can solve our motherland's > numerous problems is not just to be sitting in foreign countries and > talk, talk, talk! But the solution is that we should all have the > interest of the nation by going back and contributing to its meaningful > development. Most people missed The Gambia for decades and do not know > anything about the place. This is terrible! > > We all need to go back after we obtain our degrees and develop the > roads, hospitals, airports, seaports, schools, our local folks, and many > more so that we can make it The "SINGAPORE OF WEST AFRICA". ha! ha! Aye...Aye...Aye. Mr. Conateh, you are very perceptive! And your advice may fall on deaf ears but it is worth listening to. Thank you and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 00:37:58 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: AMISTAD Message-ID: <9712200537.AA21394@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey to all the movie-goers out there, Have you seen the movie AMISTAD yet? What are your comments on the scene, setting and characters? How about your personal reactions? Did it make you feel like going outside to find a "white" person to slap? (joke). Actually, A Senegalese brother once told me that on the first day the film ROOTS was shown on TV, some Senegalese who saw it actually went out and physically attacked some white people in Dakar. I do not know how true that was but I could imagine the temptation. Anyway, my question about this movie is: what benefits will Africans, especially the Sierra Leoneans (since the characters are based on them ) get out of it? Perhaps, we can parallel it to the film ROOTS by Alex Haley. How did this film influence the Gambia? Well, Unfortunately, I have not seen AMISTAD yet but I heard that it is a very powerful film. Hopefully, I will find some time during the Christmas weekend to go see it. Who wants to be my date for the occasion? Just kidding.....my wife would skin me alive :-)))). Have a great weekend! Regards, Moe S. Jallow ======================================================================= mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:28:56 +2000 From: mmjeng@image.dk To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: SV: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <199712201329.OAA24411@mail.image.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable > Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 09:21:59 +0100 > Reply-to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > From: Asbj=F8rn Nordam <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gam= bia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: SV: Babading Sissoho > X-To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Friends, at the fantastic Yundum airport, while I was waiting for a > plane, I counted 9 big planes, all of them belonging to Mr. Sissoho. He > must be rich, because I was told that they were not frequently > operating. We know from the competition among the national > flight-compagnies in Europe, that it is costy every hour the plane is > parked. Rumours (which one should not spread) was saying, that Mr. > Sissoho didn=B4t pay, or have not payed for long time, for the > airport-service and parking of his planes in Yundum. So .... Asbj=F8rn > Nordam > > > ---------- > > Fra: Momodou Camara[SMTP:nijii@hotmail.com] > > Svar til: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > > Sendt: 12. december 1997 08:46 > > Til: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > Emne: Re: Babading Sissoho > > > > > > > > > >Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that > > > > Mr > > >Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm > > >welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help > > The > > >Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related > > >projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and > > >confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise . > > >The more the investment money, the better for us. > > >He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed > > financial > > >help. > > > > > >Habib Ghanim > > > > > > > It is stated in one of the FOROYAA issues recently that Mr. Sissoho > > ows > > four million dalasis to the Gambia including the Civil Aviation. > > > > Momodou Camara > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > The following is from the point newspaper issue of Monday December 15, 1997. > Retrenchment At Air Dabia According to an official at Air Dabia, the company has over the weekend retrenched about 40 people. He said that business has not been good with the carrier and it had made operational loses due to poor traffic it had to cope with since it started operations here. On what`s next on the agenda of the company, the source said that Air Dabia will be retructured with a streamlined staff and new marketing strategies for better prospects. Asked why give the sack to these people now that Mr. Sissoho is here, the source replied that it was just a coincidence as the move had been planned for a long time. Reacting to allegations that the company had failed to pay its staff for the past 3 months or so, the source denied them en bloc claiming that, that has never been the case at Air Dabia. This paper contacted some of the senior officials of the airline that have been affected by the move but they declined to comment. They further asked us to contact the management for further clarification. Have a nice weekend Greetings Matarr M. Jeng. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:37:23 +2000 From: mmjeng@image.dk To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Banjulians Discover "Oil Wells" At Half Die Message-ID: <199712201438.PAA32589@mail.image.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT The following is from my copy of the point newspaper of Thursday 11th. December 1997. Banjulians Discover "Oil Wells" At Half Die. Geologists call for caution The sudden discovery of Kerosene wells at the half die mangroves has been the focus of the people of that area. The site has been for the past 5 days the port of call for many Banjulians of various ages who have been taken regular supply of the fuel for both domestic use and sale in the case of young boys who are said to have discovered the booty. On hearing, the news, the point visited the site behind ICE school`s annex. On arrival, this reporter was hit by the scent of Kerosene all over the place where a caretaker from the Half Die primary school was found with some boys helping themselves with the liquid that was coming out from holes dug by the people. When contacted, he said he was sent by the headmaster to collect parraffin for the cleaning of the school`s toilets. The caretaker asserted that he has seen people who had managed to collect as much as four gallons of the liquid. Some, he explained, have sold their booty to shopkeepers while others mostly older people have been using the fuel for their hurricane lamps. The reporter asked a teacher in the area whether he tought the Kerosene leaked from the nearby shell tanks, but he expressed his doubt about such a possibility as there was no possible path linking the two sites. Whe contacted sources at the Geological Unit recommended caution. They warned that people should not be misled to belive that some oil was in the area. They cited similar cases in the provinces where similar situations had arisen. However it was later discovered that wells of fuel there stemmed from leakages during the hey days trading seasons of the past. They did not also rule out that the proximity of the Shell tanks could have made it possible for people to find the liquid in the said area. They also warned that they are not even sure whether it is Kerosene or not because the chemical composition of the liquid is yet to be determined, whether it is some form of hydrocarbon or not but investigations are being carried out. Wish you all a nice weekend. Greetings Matarr M. Jeng. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:12:38 -0500 From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Question... Message-ID: <19971220.111240.3614.0.nahak@juno.com> These are all valid questions, but where do we find the answers if we do not have our own written history books to consult. I do not think Oral History alone can answer the question you raised above. Nonetheless, your questions are worth thinking about. Thank you and happy holidays! Regards, Moe S. Jallow Mr. Jallow, Thank you for making the above comment. My question to your comment is that have we as Africans ever find the answers to our societal problems by reading written history by the Europeans? If yes, what are the answers? If no, Why? Can we as Africans become self sustainable without Valuing our Own History? Some of us may not even be aware or conscious of the fact that, we were socialized by the Europeans to devalue our own history. One of the reasons why they did it is for them to able to control us so that we can become dependent on them. They have succeeded in doing it. Why? Even today, most Africans believe that our Oral history is not valid just because it is not written in Books. Our history was in the form of Oral, Digging, Nature and Culture. To me this type of history gives me more answers than the written history by the Europeans. It helps me to understand and appreciate my society. It also empowers me to find possible solutions to our societal problems. The written history by the Europeans empowers us to condemn our societies as well as our leaders so that we can remain to be divided and they will still continue to control us and dictate our Public Policy. Some of us do this unconsciously and because of this it hinders sustainable development in any African Nation. Our Oral, Digging, Nature and Culture History is OUR ROOTS and devaluing it will make us to become empty and weak to become more creative in developing our nations. One of the ways in which we get our own history is by going back to our nations, interview elders in both rural and urban. To sustain it we can write or use cassettes and videos to tape it. We can have these people come to our schools to teach both teachers and students about our history. It should be part of our schools curriculum from elementary to colleges and universities in Africa. By doing this we will open a positive dialogs in dealing with our societal problems. To be strong and sustainable , we must build on with what we have and not just to des card it. In the name of ALLAH, may we all be blessed. Michae B.B.J. Gomez Bakalarr Village, N.B.D. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:36:02 +1200 From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: THE ONLY SOLUTION! Message-ID: <133A647254B@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:16:17 -0800 (PST) > From: sillah conateh <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> > Subject: THE ONLY SOLUTION! > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Reply-to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Fellow Gambians, > > I firmly believe that the only way we can solve our motherland's > numerous problems is not just to be sitting in foreign countries and > talk, talk, talk! But the solution is that we should all have the > interest of the nation by going back and contributing to its meaningful > development. Most people missed The Gambia for decades and do not know > anything about the place. This is terrible! > > We all need to go back after we obtain our degrees and develop the > roads, hospitals, airports, seaports, schools, our local folks, and many > more so that we can make it The "SINGAPORE OF WEST AFRICA". ha! ha! > > Wishing all a Happy Christmas and a Wonderful New Year. > > Sillah. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > I agree with Sillah that the only way our home land can change according to our wishes is if we are prepared to go back participate physically . We must be ready to sacrifice our lives, confort and do what ever it takes to build an ideal society for us. The coutries in which we are living now have gone through the stages that our nation is going through now. It was through the unconpromising effforts the pioneers of those countries that they are enjoying today. Let us not fool our selves that we will be able to run things from outside. There is more political awareness in the Gambia now than ever before and we can further build on that by being there and talking to our sisters and brothers. It is our duty to go back and share our expieriences with them and do what ever we can to develop our nation. Awareness is the key to a democratic society. If the people are aware and conscious of thier rights the leaders must act justly because they know they will not get away with injustice. In many parts of Africa leaders continue to be unjust because they know they can get away with it. The people still believe that the Leader is above the people and they cann't do anything about what they do, As long as this wrong concept remains, we cannot have a democratic society. I wish you all a merry chrismas and a happy new year. Saikou B M Njai Postgraduate Student Room E311 Department of Civil Engineering University of Canterbury P M B 4800 Christchurch,N Z ------------------------------ End of GAMBIA-L Digest 99 *************************

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